I did not open this thread to make anyone feel guilty or depressed. I am also struggling myself.... but i feel by sharing my thoughts we all can be encouraged.
It is about Pre Marital Sex.

Most Christians love God but wished there was no commandment on Pre Marital Sex, it would have been a nice set up. It is a known fact that as Christian God frowns against Pre Marital Sex and Sexual Immorality. We all know that.
But what is the whole point of staying away from PMS (Pre Marital Sex) why ? is it for purity or holiness or what ?

I have seen people stay away from PMS but engage in masturbation or watch pornography and they say at least i am not penetrating any woman and they feel it is not fornication or adultery as the case maybe..... They miss the bigger picture......

I have seen people get married in a hurry because they want to have sex without the guilt.... They miss the bigger picture.

The Reason behind the whole abstinence from PMS is for three reason.

1. To Build Your Spirit Man - Our spirit is what is transformed not the flesh or body, you will always be a slave to your flesh if you never try to build your spirit man... The devil will always take advantage of that. Secondly, there are alot of assignment God has placed in our hands as Christians were by the Spirit Man needs to be built in order to fulfill that assignment.
That is why it is good as christian to always engage in fasting...... you dont only fast when there is a problem. You fast to build your Spirit.

2. Self Discipline - This is key to our lives as Christians. If you cant say NO now, you will never be able to say NO later.

3. Identifying your number one enemy THE FLESH - The flesh is an instrument the devil uses against us and will always use till we go meet the Lord. You identifying it makes you aware of its danger and you try to never feed it but starve it.

Summary - To some of us who watch pornography or masturbate and feel it is better than having PMS ..... it has the same negative effect. (You are feeding the flesh and giving it what it wants)

To some of us that want to get married quickly because we want to have sex without guilt..... sexual desires towards opposite sex is part of the flesh, getting married does not stop it......... that is why you see so many married pastor sleeping with their members despite being married..... because they never built the three foundational reason behind abstinence from PMS.

Lastly before i go - The truth is no matter the sin we may commit God is available to forgive us but remember Sin opens the door for the devil.... nobody wants that......

For all still struggling.... you are not alone.... Just keep trying, it is not easy but keep trying and never stop praying to God for strength.

Huh? When I saw PMS I thought it was what we use for our vehicle.

Back to what you wrote up there. Why is sex so sacred?

hakeem4:
Huh? When I saw PMS I thought it was what we use for our vehicle.

Back to what you wrote up there. Why is sex so sacred?

Hahahaha........ back to the question......... because our body is the temple of God,. Our body is not just sacred to only sex, it is sacred to other works of the flesh as well....like envy, jealousy, hatred, wickedness.

AristocraticMe:
I did not open this thread to make anyone feel guilty or depressed. I am also struggling myself.... but i feel by sharing my thoughts we all can be encouraged.
It is about Pre Marital Sex.

Most Christians love God but wished there was no commandment on Pre Marital Sex, it would have been a nice set up. It is a known fact that as Christian God frowns against Pre Marital Sex and Sexual Immorality. We all know that.
But what is the whole point of staying away from PMS (Pre Marital Sex) why ? is it for purity or holiness or what ?

I have seen people stay away from PMS but engage in masturbation or watch pornography and they say at least i am not penetrating any woman and they feel it is not fornication or adultery as the case maybe..... They miss the bigger picture......

It is not enough to say you love God. That declaration means nothing at the end of the day! It is worthless as far as God is concerned. Jesus Christ said this and John, His apostle, repeated this for all to hear.

Matthew 11 vs 27-30 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

Choose to be born of the Spirit so you have a chance at beating that which plagues you. Becoming born again has nothing to do with what the world's churches say but with what Jesus Christ Himself stipulated.

Kobojunkie:
It is not enough to say you love God. That declaration means nothing at the end of the day! It is worthless as far as God is concerned. Jesus Christ said this and John, His apostle, repeated this for all to hear.

Choose to be born of the Spirit so you have a chance at beating that which plagues you. Becoming born again has nothing to do with what the world's churches say but with what Jesus Christ Himself stipulated.

I dont follow churches i follow the bible. I am not exalting SEX above every other SIN, a Sin is a Sin...... in regards to the love God part, the bible said it time without number.... If you love me, you will keep my commandment.... but guess what, we sin everyday does that now mean we hate God... NO..... That is why i said it is important for us to keep praying for strenght....

Choose to be born of the Spirit ? Every believer / Born again is filled with the Spirit of God/ Holy Spirit..... but the spirit will be dormant if you dont activate it by obeying the words of God in the bible.

I really dont understand 100% your reply....

AristocraticMe:
I dont follow churches i follow the bible. I am not exalting SEX above every other SIN, a Sin is a Sin...... in regards to the love God part,.

Neither am I a Churchian. I follow the WORD OF GOD, not the Bible.

AristocraticMe:
the bible said it time without number.... If you love me, you will keep my commandment.... but guess what, we sin everyday does that now mean we hate God... NO..... That is why i said it is important for us to keep praying for strenght....

Did Jesus Christ or God Himself tell you that those who belong to Him sin? Or did man tell you this? Know the Truth of God from the lies of men. Those who are followers of Jesus Christ have the Spirit of God to keep them from sinning. That is a fact of being born again. You have Him to help you overcome all that needs overcoming. Being born again is totally different from what you see practised in the Church world today so do not be deceived by all those falsehoods.
A life lived according to the lead of the Spirit of God is a life lived above sin, and all that concerns sin.

AristocraticMe:
Choose to be born of the Spirit ? Every believer / Born again is filled with the Spirit of God/ Holy Spirit..... but the spirit will be dormant if you dont activate it by obeying the words of God in the bible.
I really dont understand 100% your reply....

That is a lie that the churches of the world tell people to deceive them. Not everyone, yes, not even pastors and GOs, who claim to believe is born again. Jesus Christ was clear about how to become His follower...[b] It is impossible to become born again without first obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ. [/b]That is how He designed it and that is how it remains to this day. The Spirit of God does not lie dormant in anybody who is not born of Him.

The grace of God does not exempt one from obeying Jesus Christ's commandments nor does it provide an excuse for one to continue to claim one loves God but continues in sin. You have to submit your ego and life in entirety to Jesus Christ and you have to obey His commandments. That is the only way to become born again.
Confessing your sins does not make them go away for they will remain right there with you, until you do as Jesus Christ commanded.

There are about 7 commandments that one needs to carefully consider, accept, and execute in order to become born again/a follower of Jesus Christ. For a long time I thought it was what was preached in the churches but I struggled with sin too. It was not until I finally opened the Gospels to read for myself and put into practice what Jesus Christ commanded that I finally came to experience what it is to indeed be born of the Spirit of God.

And no, the Spirit does not lie dormant. When you become born again, what happens is the fragment of the Spirit of God already inside every man from the very beginning, the spirit inside each of us, is synced back up with the source, the Spirit of God, who then takes over from your spirit, speaking, directing and instructing you every step of every moment of every day. How else is He meant to counsel, teach, help, guide, and comfort if He does not speak to you?

No one can become a follower of Jesus Christ simply by wishing for it. Jesus required that those who choose to follow Him do the work that He commands they first do.

1. Be prepared to abandon parents, brother, sister, children, spouse, in-laws, e.t.c.
2. Abandon all that you know/believe, have, and all that you are
3. Bear your own burden (not someone else's cross- not even your family's or children's)

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.
38. Those who will not accept the cross that is given to them when they follow me are not worthy of me.
39. Those who try to keep the life they have will lose it. But those who give up their life for me will find true life.

4. Become a child again in your thinking and your actions

Matthew 14 vs 23-24
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Then he said, “The truth is, you must change your thinking and become like little children. If you don’t do this, you will never enter God’s kingdom.
4. The greatest person in God’s kingdom is the one who makes himself humble like this child.

5. Be prepared to lose life(reputation, career, control, property, etc.)
[/quote]

Matthew 16 vs 24-27
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24. Then Jesus said to his followers, “If any of you want to be my follower, you must stop thinking about yourself and what you want. You must be willing to carry the cross that is given to you for following me.
25. Any of you who try to save the life you have will lose it. But you who give up your life for me will find true life.
26. It is worth nothing for you to have the whole world if you yourself are lost. You could never pay enough to buy back your life.
27. The Son of Man will come again with his Father’s glory and with his angels. And he will reward everyone for what they have done.

6. Desire above all to find and enter the Kingdom of God and also walk the path of righteousness, with God as your guide every step
7. Let go of all control you have over your life and circumstances, allowing God to take care of your every need

Matthew 6 vs 31-34
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25. “So I tell you, don’t worry about the things you need to live—what you will eat, drink, or wear. Life is more important than food, and the body is more important than what you put on it.
26. Look at the birds. They don’t plant, harvest, or save food in barns, but your heavenly Father feeds them. Don’t you know you are worth much more than they are?
27. You cannot add any time to your life by worrying about it.
28. “And why do you worry about clothes? Look at the wildflowers in the field. See how they grow. They don’t work or make clothes for themselves.
29. But I tell you that even Solomon, the great and rich king, was not dressed as beautifully as one of these flowers.
30. If God makes what grows in the field so beautiful, what do you think he will do for you? It’s just grass—one day it’s alive, and the next day someone throws it into a fire. But God cares enough to make it beautiful. Surely he will do much more for you. Your faith is so small!
31. “Don’t worry and say, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’
32. That’s what those people who don’t know God are always thinking about. Don’t worry, because your Father in heaven knows that you need all these things.
33. What you should want most is God’s kingdom and doing what he wants you to do. Then he will give you all these other things you need.
34. So don’t worry about tomorrow. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Tomorrow will have its own worries.

Since I have done it, sin has become a sort of afterthought that barely spends more than seconds on my mind. He is able to context-switch your thoughts so you barely spend time thinking of sin and all that apply to it.

Kobojunkie:
Neither am I a Churchian. I follow the WORD OF GOD, not the Bible.
Did Jesus Christ or God Himself tell you that those who belong to Him sin? Or did man tell you this? Know the Truth of God from the lies of men. Those who are followers of Jesus Christ have the Spirit of God to keep them from sinning. That is a fact of being born again. You have Him to help you overcome all that needs overcoming. Being born again is totally different from what you see practised in the Church world today so do not be deceived by all those falsehoods.
A life lived according to the lead of the Spirit of God is a life lived above sin, and all that concerns sin.
That is a lie that the churches of the world tell people to deceive them. Not everyone, yes, not even pastors and GOs, who claim to believe is born again. Jesus Christ was clear about how to become His follower...[b] It is impossible to become born again without first obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ. [/b]That is how He designed it and that is how it remains to this day. The Spirit of God does not lie dormant in anybody who is not born of Him.

The grace of God does not exempt one from obeying Jesus Christ's commandments nor does it provide an excuse for one to continue to claim one loves God but continues in sin. You have to submit your ego and life in entirety to Jesus Christ and you have to obey His commandments. That is the only way to become born again.
Confessing your sins does not make them go away for they will remain right there with you, until you do as Jesus Christ commanded.

We on the same page but i will enlighten you a little bit.... first of all i am not a follower of Churches or People i read my bible on my own...

Let us enlighten ourselves a bit on the holy spirit. IT IS IN EVERY BELIEVER OF CHRIST. ...... The bible told me so....

The apostle Paul wrote to the believers in Ephesus: "You also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance." (Eph. 1:13,14)

This deposit is only given to those who receive Christ as Savior. (John 1:12) Unbelievers are not forgiven of their sins or given the Spirit as a deposit.

When Paul was warning the churches in Galatia not to be seduced by legalism, he wrote, "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" (Gal. 3:2) Obviously, they received the Holy Spirit the moment they were converted as they believed the good news of salvation through faith in Christ.

And Paul wrote to the church in Corinth: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." (1 Cor. 6:19,20)

A few chapters earlier Paul wrote, "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16)

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit within God's people was prophesied in Old Testament times by the prophet Ezekiel: "I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." (Ezekiel 36:27)

And Jesus described the Holy Spirit's guidance this way: "When He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth." (John 16:13)

I hope you are able to see it now.......

AristocraticMe:
We on the same page but i will enlighten you a little bit.... first of all i am not a follower of Churches or People i read my bible on my own...
Let us enlighten ourselves a bit on the holy spirit. IT IS IN EVERY BELIEVER OF CHRIST. ...... The bible told me so....
The apostle Paul wrote to the believers in Ephesus: "You also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance." (Eph. 1:13,14)

AristocraticMe:
This deposit is only given to those who receive Christ as Savior. (John 1:12) Unbelievers are not forgiven of their sins or given the Spirit as a deposit.

OK

AristocraticMe:
When Paul was warning the churches in Galatia not to be seduced by legalism, he wrote, "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" (Gal. 3:2) Obviously, they received the Holy Spirit the moment they were converted as they believed the good news of salvation through faith in Christ.
And Paul wrote to the church in Corinth: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." (1 Cor. 6:19,20)
A few chapters earlier Paul wrote, "Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16)

When it comes to God and the things of God, I have learned to focus on the WORD out of the mouth of God, believing and obeying them over words that are written by mere men, such as Paul. I believe it is best to focus on the truth of God, Jesus Christ.

AristocraticMe:
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit within God's people was prophesied in Old Testament times by the prophet Ezekiel: "I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." (Ezekiel 36:27)

This verse is apt as far as how I have learned the Spirit of God works. He indeed moves you away from that which He does not want of you. It is after all a possession.

AristocraticMe:
And Jesus described the Holy Spirit's guidance this way: "When He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth." (John 16:13)
I hope you are able to see it now.......

The mental gymnastics that is the definition of the word "believe" in today's world alone will not get you born again. Not according to Jesus Christ, the author, and finisher of our faith. After all, even the demons believe. Without obedience, all one's belief amounts to nothing. With obedience, God's will is done.
Like I said, I have myself tested Jesus Christ's own words, the very Truth of God, and found it true. Anyone who says it is not the way, is a liar and the truth is not in em. That is what I have come away believing, just as John the apostle said.

Kobojunkie:
Neither am I a Churchian. I follow the WORD OF GOD, not the Bible.
Did Jesus Christ or God Himself tell you that those who belong to Him sin? Or did man tell you this? Know the Truth of God from the lies of men. Those who are followers of Jesus Christ have the Spirit of God to keep them from sinning. That is a fact of being born again. You have Him to help you overcome all that needs overcoming. Being born again is totally different from what you see practised in the Church world today so do not be deceived by all those falsehoods.
A life lived according to the lead of the Spirit of God is a life lived above sin, and all that concerns sin.
That is a lie that the churches of the world tell people to deceive them. Not everyone, yes, not even pastors and GOs, who claim to believe is born again. Jesus Christ was clear about how to become His follower...[b] It is impossible to become born again without first obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ. [/b]That is how He designed it and that is how it remains to this day. The Spirit of God does not lie dormant in anybody who is not born of Him.

The grace of God does not exempt one from obeying Jesus Christ's commandments nor does it provide an excuse for one to continue to claim one loves God but continues in sin. You have to submit your ego and life in entirety to Jesus Christ and you have to obey His commandments. That is the only way to become born again.
Confessing your sins does not make them go away for they will remain right there with you, until you do as Jesus Christ commanded.

You must be a sinless person.... for your information God gave the perquisite to be born again.... Romans 10 vs 9. (Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.)

Being born again is different from living a sinless life..... Nobody i mean nobody can live without commiting sin..... it is impossible... The only person who did it was Jesus........ even David commited sin, Peter, John Mark when he turned his back on Paul when they were on a missionary work and so on.... does that make them unbelievers ? we all make mistakes...... but as the bible says he is able and just to forgive us but does mean you keep living in sin, you obeying the commandment of God is not for God's benefits, it is for our own benefit.

........ going by your standard everybody will go to hell, because if you sin just once or lie or steal or hate someone then you are unbeliever, which is a straight ticket to hell......... Even the bible says it, it is the will of God for all to come to repentance.....

Following Romans 10 vs 9 is what makes you born again.... Jesus already did the work for us.... He made it easy............not us.... we dont deserve it, we cant earn it..... because ALL HAVE SIN AND COME SHORT OF GOD's GLORY......

AristocraticMe:
You must be a sinless person.... for your information God gave the perquisite to be born again.... Romans 10 vs 9. (Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.)

Like I said, I compare my walk with what Paul wrote of his experience as well, and I chose instead to stick with what Jesus Christ/God said as Truth.

AristocraticMe:
Being born again is different from living a sinless life..... Nobody i mean nobody can live without commiting sin..... it is impossible... The only person who did it was Jesus........ even David commited sin, Peter, John Mark when he turned his back on Paul when they were on a missionary work and so on.... does that make them unbelievers ? we all make mistakes...... but as the bible says he is able and just to forgive us but does mean you keep living in sin, you obeying the commandment of God is not for God's benefits, it is for our own benefit.

Being Born again is what it means to live a life above Sin. This is not an instant transformation but a process, and yes you will make mistakes but what God said is true. As God explained to you in Ezekiel 36, His own Spirit He will install in your to keep you doing His will. Did God lie?

Ezekiel 36 vs 24-30 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24. “I will take you out of those nations, gather you together, and bring you back to your own land.
25. Then I will sprinkle pure water on you and make you pure. I will wash away all your filth, the filth from those nasty idols, and I will make you pure.
26. I will also put a new spirit in you to change your way of thinking. I will take out the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender, human heart.
27. I will put my Spirit inside you[c] and change you so that you will obey my laws. You will carefully obey my commands.
28. Then you will live in the land that I gave to your ancestors. You will be my people, and I will be your God.
29. Also, I will save you and keep you from becoming unclean. I will command the grain to grow. I will not bring a famine against you. 30. I will give you large crops of fruit from your trees and the harvest from your fields so that you will never again feel the shame of being hungry in a foreign country.
31. You will remember the bad things you did. You will remember that those things were not good. Then you will hate yourselves because of your sins and the terrible things you did.”

Read through and note how these words define what Jesus Christ laid down for His followers. Ask yourself, did God lie?

AristocraticMe:
........ going by your standard everybody will go to hell, because if you sin just once or lie or steal or hate someone then you are unbeliever, which is a straight ticket to hell......... Even the bible says it, it is the will of God for all to come to repentance.....

The standards I post have nothing to do with me but what Jesus Christ Himself taught us of what we should expect. Rather than focusing on my person, focus instead on what God said, even through Jesus Christ.

AristocraticMe:
Following Romans 10 vs 9 is what makes you born again.... Jesus already did the work for us.... He made it easy............not us.... we dont deserve it, we cant earn it..... because ALL HAVE SIN AND COME SHORT OF GOD's GLORY......

If Jesus Christ did the works for you, then why did He lay down about 46 commandments for you to obey, all of them He expects anyone who loves Him, to obey by the way? Was Jesus Christ aware that there was no need for Him to command you to do these works ?? Did God lie?

Kobojunkie:
Like I said, I compare my walk with what Paul wrote of his experience as well, and I chose instead to stick with what Jesus Christ/God said as Truth.
Being Born again is what it means to live a life above Sin. This is not an instant transformation but a process, and yes you will make mistakes but what God said is true. As God explained to you in Ezekiel 36, His own Spirit He will install in your to keep you doing His will. Did God lie?

Read through and note how these words define what Jesus Christ laid down for His followers. Ask yourself, did God lie?
The standards I post have nothing to do with me but what Jesus Christ Himself taught us of what we should expect. Rather than focusing on my person, focus instead on what God said, even through Jesus Christ.
If Jesus Christ did the works for you, then why did He lay down about 46 commandments for you to obey, all of them He expects anyone who loves Him, to obey by the way? Was Jesus Christ aware that there was no need for Him to command you to do these works ?? Did God lie?

I did not focus on your person.... forget that, that was just on a lighter note................. Well like you said you dont believe the Bible, you only believe what God said to you, we will always be in disagreement because the bible is my guiding principle for living. Everything i quoted to you was from the bible..

You will always misunderstand everything being written because you dont believe its source.... THE BIBLE.....

Like Paul told Timothy that he should not spend time trying to explain or convince everyone about every issue..... We on the same if you believe in JESUS and Believe he is the SON OF GOD and CONFESS with your mouth...... there is no need for back and forth issue....

Same way some people dont believe in tithing or offering...... there is no need arguing that with anybody.... as far as they believe in JESUS and CONFESS with their mouth it is okay.......... Obeying the bible and all what it is says is for our benefit...... if you like give, if you like tithe if you like dont tithe....... you are only missing on God's promises for your life... it does not affect you being born again......

AristocraticMe:
I did not focus on your person.... forget that, that was just on a lighter note................. Well like you said you dont believe the Bible, you only believe what God said to you, we will always be in disagreement because the bible is my guiding principle for living. Everything i quoted to you was from the bible..

Again, you focus on the wrong things. It is not the Bible that is the truth of God. No! it is the word of God that is written inside of the Bible that is the truth of God.

AristocraticMe:
You will always misunderstand everything being written because you dont believe its source.... THE BIBLE.....

I did not misunderstand anything you have written so far. The source of all I have quoted, note, is not the Bible, but God...
God is True. Jesus Christ is the truth of God, the very word out of the mouth of God made flesh. So when it comes to the truth of God, it is not all that is in that book you call the bible, but the word out of God's own mouth is Truth.

Matthew 4 vs 4 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. But he answered, “It is written,“‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

AristocraticMe:
Like Paul told Timothy that he should not spend time trying to explain or convince everyone about every issue..... We on the same if you believe in JESUS and Believe he is the SON OF GOD and CONFESS with your mouth...... there is no need for back and forth issue....

But what did Jesus Christ say as far as those who want to become His followers? What did the one who is the very word of God Himself, say about the same subject? Should you not validate the words you claim to be of Paul against the Word of God Himself, to learn if it is indeed true or not?
Remember, Paul is not the truth, no. Jesus Christ is the New Covenant that God expressed in Ezekiel 36, and in Jeremiah 31, is the way, the truth, and life. So the words you should believe are the words of Jesus Christ.
Also remember, Paul's letters were written to those who already were saved... those who were members of Christ's church, not to sinners who were yet to be born again.

AristocraticMe:
Same way some people dont believe in tithing or offering...... there is no need arguing that with anybody.... as far as they believe in JESUS and CONFESS with their mouth it is okay.......... Obeying the bible and all what it is says is for our benefit...... if you like give, if you like tithe if you like dont tithe....... you are only missing on God's promises for your life... it does not affect you being born again......

It is not the same way at all! If you are not obeying the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ in your everyday life, you don't belong to Him at all. He made it clear in Ezekiel, in the gospels as well. Even his apostles affirmed this truth. You cannot worship two masters... you have one and one alone. If Jesus Christ is not it, then you do not belong to Him at all.

Kobojunkie:
Again, you focus on the wrong things. It is not the Bible that is the truth of God. No! it is the word of God that is written inside of the Bible that is the truth of God.
I did not misunderstand anything you have written so far. The source of all I have quoted, note, is not the Bible, but God...
God is True. Jesus Christ is the truth of God, the very word out of the mouth of God made flesh. So when it comes to the truth of God, it is not all that is in that book you call the bible, but the word out of God's own mouth is Truth.


But what did Jesus Christ say as far as those who want to become His followers? What did the one who is the very word of God Himself, say about the same subject? Should you not validate the words you claim to be of Paul against the Word of God Himself, to learn if it is indeed true or not?
Remember, Paul is not the truth, no. Jesus Christ is the New Covenant that God expressed in Ezekiel 36, and in Jeremiah 31, is the way, the truth, and life. So the words you should believe are the words of Jesus Christ.
Also remember, Paul's letters were written to those who already were saved... those who were members of Christ's church, not to sinners who were yet to be born again.
It is not the same way at all! If you are not obeying the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ in your everyday life, you don't belong to Him at all. He made it clear in Ezekiel, in the gospels as well. Even his apostles affirmed this truth. You cannot worship two masters... you have one and one alone. If Jesus Christ is not it, then you do not belong to Him at all.

Like i said you keep misreading what i type.......... Even a baby knows The bible is just book, it is the words written is all that matters.

Point 2 - When you say God is the source of what you wrote... it conflicting... Even the bible says that - THE BOOK OF LORD SHALL NOT DEPART FROM THY MOUTH ( The bible), even David said (Your words have hidden my heart) so if you dont read the bible and you claim you are born again...... then your salvation is questionable...... if you dont read the words of God written for our learning then how can you know him.......

Point 3 - The bible said that every word in the bible was inspired by God....... God inspired them to write it, so it is God speaking not Paul or Peter or John..

I AM NOT SAYING DONT OBEY THE WORD OF GOD..... you keep getting this wrong.... i never said that........ You decide to obey God is for your benefit.. Giving your life Christ is for your benefit...... not God's benefit, for instance you choosing to read the bible is for your own good.

If you decide not to obey God then you are not a true follower of God that is a fact.... though we might we make mistakes some times we all should thrive for perfection and even if we cant get perfection we will definitely attain excellence in our everyday life........

The Book written by Paul was written to believers and not sinners, like me and you, he also included in it that we should read the bible STUDY TO SHOW YOUR SELF APPROVE.......... it is a message to Timothy and it is for every one of us today.....that is a KNOWN FACT......

There is no need arguing on this issue..... i created this thread for a different reason.

I dont know it all, we all keep learning everyday... but there are some discussion that are not going anywhere because we dont believe in the same thing.

AristocraticMe:
Like i said you keep misreading what i type.......... Even a baby knows The bible is just book, it is the words written is all that matters.

AristocraticMe:
Point 2 - When you say God is the source of what you wrote... it conflicting... Even the bible says that - THE BOOK OF LORD SHALL NOT DEPART FROM THY MOUTH ( The bible), even David said (Your words have hidden my heart) so if you dont read the bible and you claim you are born again...... then your salvation is questionable...... if you dont read the words of God written for our learning then how can you know him.......

The book of the Law referred to the Old Covenant Laws of God, not the Bible.
David also meant the word of God as in the Laws of God, not the Bible, the book that you have today.
The book you read today, called the Bible, was compiled and translated only about 400 years ago to the English language, into what you have in your hands.

AristocraticMe:
Point 3 - The bible said that every word in the bible was inspired by God....... God inspired them to write it, so it is God speaking not Paul or Peter or John..

Every knowledge in this word, be it good or evil, was inspired by God. For all knowledge belongs to God from even before the beginning of man( see the tree of knowledge of good and evil).

AristocraticMe:
I AM NOT SAYING DONT OBEY THE WORD OF GOD..... you keep getting this wrong.... i never said that........ You decide to obey God is for your benefit.. Giving your life Christ is for your benefit...... not God's benefit, for instance you choosing to read the bible is for your own good.

Ok. But I am saying in addition to what you have said is that obeying God is the way to get around and overcome sin, as God has said.

AristocraticMe:
If you decide not to obey God then you are not a true follower of God that is a fact.... though we might we make mistakes some times we all should thrive for perfection and even if we cant get perfection we will definitely attain excellence in our everyday life........

Perfection is a whole different topic from this.
Stop worrying about the mistakes though but focus instead on doing what He wants you to do, regardless of the mistakes. That is the key! If you make a mistake, he will correct you and keep moving you forward as He has designed and said He will.

AristocraticMe:
The Book written by Paul was written to believers and not sinners, like me and you, he also included in it that we should read the bible STUDY TO SHOW YOUR SELF APPROVE.......... it is a message to Timothy and it is for every one of us today.....that is a KNOWN FACT......

Well, as of the time of Paul, there was no BIBLE. He could not have said to study the bible to show yourself approved. What existed were old testament laws and scriptures which only those who were able to, had access to in the temple, mostly.

AristocraticMe:
There is no need arguing on this issue..... i created this thread for a different reason.
I dont know it all, we all keep learning everyday... but there are some discussion that are not going anywhere because we dont believe in the same thing.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all other things shall be added onto you

Kobojunkie:

The book of the Law referred to the Old Covenant Laws of God, not the Bible.
David also meant the word of God as in the Laws of God, not the Bible, the book that you have today.
The book you read today, called the Bible, was compiled and translated only about 400 years ago to the English language, into what you have in your hands.
Every knowledge in this word, be it good or evil, was inspired by God. For all knowledge belongs to God from even before the beginning of man( see the tree of knowledge of good and evil).
Ok. But I am saying in addition to what you have said is that obeying God is the way to get around and overcome sin, as God has said.
Perfection is a whole different topic from this.
Stop worrying about the mistakes though but focus instead on doing what He wants you to do, regardless of the mistakes. That is the key! If you make a mistake, he will correct you and keep moving you forward as He has designed and said He will.
Well, as of the time of Paul, there was no BIBLE. He could not have said to study the bible to show yourself approved. What existed were old testament laws and scriptures which only those who were able to, had access to in the temple, mostly.
Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all other things shall be added onto you

Whether is it is old testament or new testament...... THE BOOK is THE BOOK (The Bible).....

When Jesus went to the temple what was he reading ? The BIBLE..... ( The word BIBLE is an english word) What we should be concerned about its CONTENT. The words God....it could being a scroll or anything...... If you dont believe in the bible then what do you believe ?

You cant live in disobedience to God and you want to live a successful christian life it is impossible...... Obedience is key is it the foundation of our Christianity.

During the time of Paul there was a bible, it was not called a bible (The Word is an english word) what you should be concerned is what he said STUDY..... what should timothy study ? the word of God... which we call today the BIBLE....

There is no way you can say you are a Christian (Follower of Christ if you dont read your bible) You dont read his word of the God you claim you follow

Even God told Joshua - MEDITATE ON THE WORD, FOLLOW WHAT's IN IT AND I SHALL MAKE THY WAY PROSPEROUS.... This was the message God told Joshua when he wanted to start leading the Israelite.....What word will you meditate on if you dont read the word.....

The word bible is an english word.....forget about the word.... focus on its content.....

The word of God is our guiding light..

AristocraticMe:
Whether is it is old testament or new testament...... THE BOOK is THE BOOK (The Bible).....

You are making the classic mistake that most Churchians and Religious people make, and that is assuming that this book is it! It is not !\
The Jews were once called the people of the Book, not because of the Bible but because of the Book of the Laws of Moses, that served as a constitution of sorts for the nation of Israel, for a time.

AristocraticMe:
When Jesus went to the temple what was he reading ? The BIBLE..... ( The word BIBLE is an english word) What we should be concerned about its CONTENT. The words God....it could being a scroll or anything...... If you dont believe in the bible then what do you believe ?

I believe in the WORD OF GOD, not the bible. I believe in the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ, not the Bible. Two different things!

AristocraticMe:
You cant live in disobedience to God and you want to live a successful christian life it is impossible...... Obedience is key is it the foundation of our Christianity.

Yes, Obedience is the key, not prayer, and certainly not some fluffy belief in a thing called Grace, which all men, both saved and unsaved have.
You cannot be a follower of Jesus Christ without living in obedience to the commandments that is the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ Himself.

AristocraticMe:
During the time of Paul there was a bible, it was not called a bible (The Word is an english word) what you should be concerned is what he said STUDY..... what timothy to study ? the word of God... which we call today the BIBLE....

There was no Bible for Christians. Remember, the old testament scriptures belonged to the Jews. They weren't on good terms with the Christians as to hand them the scriptures from their synagogues or temples to read.
Books were not freely available as you have them today. So, no, there was no bible. There were letters, and the writings, of Matthew and Luke, which eventually became gospels, but only a few had access to even those.
Timothy was born to a Jewish mother but even though he did not have access to Jewish temples, he probably has access to some copies of Jewish scriptures since he was born to a Greek father who was not a poor man.

AristocraticMe:
There is no way you can say you are a Christian (Follower of Christ if you dont read your bible) You dont read his word.

I read the Bible, of course. I believe the truth in it is the Word of God(the word out of God's mouth). Everything else is simply the words of men that should be verified against God's actual words. Basically, if there is no, "And God said... ", "I the Lord your God ....", "Thus sayeth the Lord...", "Jesus Said..." etc. in front of it, it is not truth but the words of men. And those words mean nothing unless God said the same thing elsewhere in there.

AristocraticMe:
Even God told Joshua - MEDITATE ON THE WORD, FOLLOW WHAT's IN IT AND I SHALL MAKE THY WAY PROSPEROUS.... This was the message God told Joshua when he wanted to start leading the Isrealite.....What word will you meditate on if you dont read the word..... The word of God is our guiding light..

Again, the word Joshua had to meditate on where His words, i.e. His commandments from the Old Covenant which Moses passed down to Joshua.

Kobojunkie:
You are making the classic mistake that most Churchians and Religious people make, and that is assuming that this book is it! It is not !\
The Jews were once called the people of the Book, not because of the Bible but because of the Book of the Laws of Moses, that served as a constitution of sorts for the nation of Israel, for a time.
I believe in the WORD OF GOD, not the bible. I believe in the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ, not the Bible. Two different things!
Yes, Obedience is the key, not prayer, and certainly not some fluffy belief in a thing called Grace, which all men, both saved and unsaved have.
You cannot be a follower of Jesus Christ without living in obedience to the commandments that is the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ Himself.
There was no Bible for Christians. Remember, the old testament scriptures belonged to the Jews. They weren't on good terms with the Christians as to hand them the scriptures from their synagogues or temples to read.
Books were not freely available as you have them today. So, no, there was no bible. There were letters, and the writings, of Matthew and Luke, which eventually became gospels, but only a few had access to even those.
Timothy was born to a Jewish mother but even though he did not have access to Jewish temples, he probably has access to some copies of Jewish scriptures since he was born to a Greek father who was not a poor man.
I read the Bible, of course. I believe the truth in it is the Word of God(the word out of God's mouth). Everything else is simply the words of men that should be verified against God's actual words. Basically, if there is no, "And God said... ", "I the Lord your God ....", "Thus sayeth the Lord...", "Jesus Said..." etc. in front of it, it is not truth but the words of men. And those words mean nothing unless God said the same thing elsewhere in there.
Again, the word Joshua had to meditate on where His words, i.e. His commandments from the Old Covenant which Moses passed down to Joshua.

You did not answer the question ? What was Jesus reading ?

I am not religious person I am a Follower of Jesus Christ....

You are contradicting yourself.... you said you only believe what has GOD in front of it...... so when the story of David was told in the bible who was saying it... I never saw God in front... Do you believe in the story of David.... what about the story of Caleb and Joshua or Daniel.... in the lions den, who was saying those story.... did you see Thou saith the Lord in front ?

You are contradicting yourself. Just the way the story of Daniel , David and Solomon was said same is the way the story of Paul, Peter and other Apostles in the bible.

AristocraticMe:
You did not answer the question ? What was Jesus reading ?

Yes, Jesus was reading the scriptures in the temple. Writings from the prophets and some even from the Book of the Law itself.

AristocraticMe:
I am not religious person I am a Follower of Jesus Christ....

A Follower of Jesus Christ is one who is Born of the Spirit of God. So, are you born of the Spirit of God? Does the Spirit of God speak and guide your every step of every moment of every day... telling you, "go here" or "go there", "Trust your Father", "don't worry", explaining the truth of things to you?

AristocraticMe:
You are contradicting yourself.... you said you only believe what has GOD in front of it...... so when the story of David was told in the bible who was saying it... I never saw God in front... Do you believe in the story of David.... what about the story of Caleb and Joshua or Daniel.... in the lions den, who was saying those story.... did you see Thou saith the Lord in front ?

The story of David was written by a man, was it not? I don't believe in the stories but I believe they are stories never the less. In much the same way I don't believe in everything else I read outside of the Bible, I don't believe in everything I read in the Bible unless it is the WORD OF GOD.

AristocraticMe:
You are contradicting yourself. Just the way the story of Daniel , David and Solomon was said same is the way the story of Paul, Peter and other Apostles in the bible.

Exactly! And I approach them all as a skeptic would. Again, only to God's word do I ascribe TRUTH to.

Kobojunkie:
Yes, Jesus was reading the scriptures in the temple. Writings from the prophets and some even from the Book of the Law itself.
A Follower of Jesus Christ is one who is Born of the Spirit of God. So, are you born of the Spirit of God? Does the Spirit of God speak and guide your every step of every moment of every day... telling you, "go here" or "go there", "Trust your Father", "don't worry", explaining the truth of things to you?
The story of David was written by a man, was it not? I don't believe in the stories but I believe they are stories never the less. In much the same way I don't believe in everything else I read outside of the Bible, I don't believe in everything I read in the Bible unless it is the WORD OF GOD.
Exactly! And I approach them all as a skeptic would. Again, only to God's word do I ascribe TRUTH to.

Point 1. He read the books of the prophets who were ordinary men like Paul and Peter. Think on that..

Point 2 . Yes...

Point 3. I like everything you said that you read the bible with skepticism, like I said everybody has a right to believe what ever they want.

All I can say. If we claim to be God's followers then the bible should be our manual for living. The bible called it a light to our feet..... it is s manual for living. If Jesus could read the bible without skepticism who are we to read the bible with skepticism.... The bible is inspired by God.

I got to go.... I enjoyed talking to you.

AristocraticMe:
Point 1. He read the books of the prophets who were ordinary men like Paul and Peter. Think on that..

Yes, He did but He only quoted the word of God as revealed by God through the prophets, not the personal opinions or suggestions of those men.

AristocraticMe:
Point 2 . Yes...

AristocraticMe:
Point 3. I like everything you said that you read the bible with skepticism, like I said everybody has a right to believe what ever they want.

Yep, and as Jesus Christ said, it is the Word of God that feeds the life that is in us, not the stories and fluff by men.

Matthew 4 vs 4 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. But he answered, “It is written,“‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

AristocraticMe:
All I can say. If we claim to be God's followers then the bible should be our manual for living. The bible called it a light to our feet..... it is s manual for living. If Jesus could read the bible without skepticism who are we to read the bible with skepticism.... The bible is inspired by God.
I got to go.... I enjoyed talking to you.

The Bible is a book like any other book. It contains the written down word of God through His prophets though. But when it comes to the knowledge that belongs to God, all knowledge is His. Even knowledge contained in History books, textbooks, comic books, movies, graphic knowledge, words spoken by people, etc.