TAO11:


(1) The Olu of Warri is called Ogiamen.

(2) Warri people -- i.e. Itsekiris -- are a Yoruba subgroup who accepted Ginuwa because he belonged to the Yoruba royal house ruling over the Edos.

(3) Yes, they page homage to Ife directly as well as indirectly to through the Benin monarchy.

Really ?? Show me proof !! Quote one reliable person , anybody , a reputable historian or a traditional ruler from itsekiri land . Just one !! I will wait.

prezeus:

Really ?? Show me proof !! Quote one reliable person , anybody , a reputable historian or a traditional ruler from itsekiri land . Just one !! I will wait.

There are three distinct points in that comment. Which one particularly do you need me to quote a source for?

And if I do will you be able to sleep tonight?

TAO11:


(1) The Olu of Warri is called Ogiamen.

(2) Warri people -- i.e. Itsekiris -- are a Yoruba subgroup who accepted Ginuwa because he belonged to the Yoruba royal house ruling over the Edos.

(3) Yes, they page homage to Ife directly as well as indirectly to through the Benin monarchy.

I'm still waiting oh

TAO11:


There are three distinct points in that comment. Which one particulalry do you need me to quote a source for?

And if I do will you be able to sleep tonight?

The third one

TAO11:


There are three distinct points in that comment. Which one particulalry do you need me to quote a source for?

And if I do will you be able to sleep tonight?

I'm still waiting ogbeni

TAO11:


There are three distinct points in that comment. Which one particulalry do you need me to quote a source for?

And if I do will you be able to sleep tonight?

Is it that difficult to find?? .....liar !! Afonja pig !!
Any assertion I make I back it up with facts and logic. You have been running your mouth since saying rubbish now it's time to prove your assertions you are nowhere to be found. Idiot!!

prezeus:
[color=#550000][/color]
Your attempt to refute my claims is laughable at best. The custodian of Lagos traditions are saying the Benins were the first rulers of the area yet you a non-entity is saying otherwise. Every smart person reading this knows who and what to believe. I am quoting from BBC, guardian newspaper, punch newspaper, and other reputable sights and historians you on the other hand are quoting yourself or other dumb small minded people like you. Please show me your claims from a reliable and reputable source then I will honestly have a change of mind till then you are saying trash.

Smiles..

The Lagos account makes it clear that Ashipa (the first king of the present dynasty) is an Awori chief from Isheri, not an Edo.

In relation to the Lagos account on Ashipa’s identity, Robert S. Smith in his "Kingdoms of the Yoruba" writes on page 74 that:

“Ashipa [is] an Isheri chief … (like Ogunfunminire and the Olofin before him) of the Ife royalty".

TAO11:


There are three distinct points in that comment. Which one particulalry do you need me to quote a source for?

And if I do will you be able to sleep tonight?

Yes I will sleep. Give me facts from reliable sources .

TAO11:


Smiles..

The Lagos account makes it clear that Ashipa (the first king of the present dynasty) is an Awori chief from Isheri.

In relation to the Lagos account on Ashipa’s identity, Robert S. Smith in his "Kingdoms of the Yoruba" writes on page 74 that:

“Ashipa [is] an Isheri chief … (like Ogunfunminire and the Olofin before him) of the Ife royalty".

Ashawo !! This is not what we are arguing about. Give me facts. You claim agbor people pay homage to alaafin of Ife . Give me prove now !! Or forever accept that the binis have a greater history in pre colonial times than the yorubas.

prezeus:
Really ?? Show me proof !! Quote one reliable person , anybody , a reputable historian or a traditional ruler from itsekiri land . Just one !! I will wait.

prezeus:
I'm still waiting oh

prezeus:
I'm still waiting ogbeni

prezeus:
Is it that difficult to find?? .....liar !! Afonja pig !!
Any assertion I make I back it up with facts and logic. You have been running your mouth since saying rubbish now it's time to prove your assertions you are nowhere to be found. Idiot!!

prezeus:
Yes I will sleep. Give me facts from reliable sources .

TAO11
There are three distinct points in that comment. Which one particularly do you need me to quote a source for?

And if I do will you be able to sleep tonight?

prezeus:
The third one

As a reminder, the three points -- of which you've requested evidence for the third -- are as follows:

(1) The Olu of Warri is called Ogiamen.

(2) Warri people -- i.e. Itsekiris -- are a Yoruba subgroup who accepted Ginuwa because he belonged to the Yoruba royal house ruling over the Edos.

(3) Yes, they page homage to Ife directly as well as indirectly through the Benin monarchy.

(A) Quoting word-for-word from Professor S.A. Akintoye's "A History of the Yoruba People" who in turn quoted from the Isoko born Professor Obaro Ikime as follows:

"Some of these umale moved away, but the rest stayed and accepted Iguniwa as their king, and so the kingdom of Ode-Itsekiri came into beign.

Now, umale ... is, as would be remembered, the generic name that all Yoruba people call the earliest earth spirits and deities worshipped by all Yoruba. ... According to Obaro Ikime, "The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and ... therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as Edo." If this was so, then a group which spoke the Yoruba language (though also speaking Edo) would be quite easy for the pre-existing Yoruba settlers to accept. The Ode-Itsekiri kingdom that thus emerged later absorbed into itself various linguistic and cultural elements -- Edo, Urhobo, Ijo. Nevertheless, its language has remained recognizably Yoruba -- proof, no doubt, of the predominance of Yoruba elements in the kingdom throughout its history." -- Reference: S.A. Akintoye "A History of the Yoruba People", 2010, p.104.


(B) Moreover, the reigning Olu of Itsekiri is reported to have uttered the following words of appreciation just after the ascension of the reigning Ooni of Ife:

"All Royal fathers present led by His Imperial Majesty, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi, the Ooni of Ife, who defied all permutations to personally attend the coronation, barely a few days after he himself ascended the ancient throne of our father Oduduwa."

https://enewsnigeria.com/ooni-of-ife-ogunwusi-ascended-our-father-oduduwas-throne-olu-of-warri/

Cheers!

The 1st attached screenshot below shows our exchanged comments that caused me to then reply you with the following words:

Smiles..

The Lagos account makes it clear that Ashipa (the first king of the present dynasty) is an Awori chief from Isheri.

In relation to the Lagos account on Ashipa’s identity, Robert S. Smith in his "Kingdoms of the Yoruba" writes on page 74 that:

“Ashipa [is] an Isheri chief … (like Ogunfunminire and the Olofin before him) of the Ife royalty."

And then all you could muster as a reply is:

prezeus:

Ashawo !! This is not what we are arguing about. Give me facts. You claim agbor people pay homage to alaafin of Ife . Give me prove now !! Or forever accept that the binis have a greater history in pre colonial times than the yorubas.

Now, with this evasive comment of yours, you've obviously admitted the fact that the 'Lagos Island' dynasty traces back to a Yoruba man named Ashipa, and not an Edo.

(A) Now, regarding my claim about the Agbor kingdom which you have attempted to save face with, consider the 2nd attached screenshot below which I have culled from Professor S.P. Blier's "Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, C. 1300", (2015), p.8. showing the Agbor monarch within the inner chambers at Ife when he showed up to pay homage during Olojo.

(B) Moreover, your statement; to the effect that if Agbor didn't pay homage to Ife then your wish that Benin is greater than Yoruba becomes proven; is as dumb as arguing that if Chinese don't have Jollof, then that proves Benin is greater than Yorubas. No other Edo could have had it dumber than this.

RuggedSniper:
Are you an Oma Igala or Ebira? You made an interesting Igala-centric origin post... Are you also an academic/historian?

No, I am an Awori man and not an academic. I just have a deep seated curiosity in my history. About the Igala centricity of my post, please understand that I also said the Igalas came from Lake Chad area(Today's Borno(Kanuris) who are originally from the heart of the Sudan.

SaintLucia:
Go to the palace and ask the Oba who was the father of Eweka

It seems English comprehension is your problem. Eweka's father is Oranmiyan. Eweka is not the father of all Benin people, he was just a king from Oranmiyan bloodline. Benin people were already in existence with a separate culture and language before Oranmiyan (a Yoruba) arrived and subsequently had Eweka that later established the post-Ogiso obaship system. Oranmiyan himself left Benin in anger because of cultural differences. I am yoruba myself but honestly some Yorubas like yourself can be very ignorant and annoying. I don't understand what you seek to gain by trying to impose your ethnicity on others. Makes no sense.

AlabiJ:


It seems English comprehension is your problem. Eweka's father is Oranmiyan. Eweka is not the father of all Benin people, he was just a king from Oranmiyan bloodline. Benin people were already in existence with a separate culture and language before Oranmiyan (a Yoruba) arrived and subsequently had Eweka that later established the post-Ogiso obaship system. Oranmiyan himself left Benin in anger because of cultural differences. I am yoruba myself but honestly some Yorubas like yourself can be very ignorant and annoying. I don't understand what you seek to gain by trying to impose your ethnicity on others. Makes no sense.

The koko of the matter be say u are one of the grandchildren of Oranmiyan if u are Bini. Go and ask your people why the Bini choose the title OBA for their monarch.

Great work, bravo

donstan18:
The only Yoruba actress I fancy is Margaret Bandele Olayinka, popularly known as Iya Gbonkan.

There's this unexplainable Orgasm I derive each time I set my eyes on her.

I wish to go on a date with her someday.

May your days be long...!
He who the gods are in love with has little Chance.......!

ykalhaji:


No, I am an Awori man and not an academic. I just have a deep seated curiosity in my history. About the Igala centricity of my post, please understand that I also said the Igalas came from Lake Chad area(Today's Borno(Kanuris) who are originally from the heart of the Sudan.

^^^OK ykalhaji... Thanks for the feedback. You can visit the over 9-page NairaLand thread of IgalaSchool (on Igala language etymology and origins). NOTE: The current Attah of Igala in a 2018 Saturday Punch article entitled: "I AM THE ONLY ATTAH OF IGALA WITH ONE WIFE" (Google it), the Attah said Igala is a fusion of migrants who moved along the River Benue from Wukari (Jukun, Taraba axis), plus some Yorubas and Edos, etc. He said IFA is always consulted before a new Attah of Igala becomes a king! 2. An Ebira elder on FaceBook also posted that Ebiras are directly related to Igalas, and that Igala is a mixture of: EBIRA KOTO+AKPOTO YORUBA. Ponder that. All the best! Cc: TAO11

TAO11:


Short answer: No, it wasnt at any time.

Long answer: Many early writtings making statements to the effect that Benin was suzerain over some eastern and southern fronteir Yoruba Kindoms are statements emanating originally from Benin.

Such statements are not corroborated (in fact contradicted) by these Yoruba kingdoms.

Olfert Dapper in the 1600s (who first of all wasn't an eyewitness) first documented such statements emanating from Benin. J. Barbot used Olfert Dapper without acknowledgment and added his own details.

Moreover, H.L. Gallwey writing from Benin also documented similar statements to the effect that Benin owned the land up to around Lokoja. In fact, many modern day Bini people still strongly believe the obviously deluded idea that their Oba owned the land up to Europe. So, you can imagine what the thinking was in the past.
.
.
.
To balance this out actually, the frontier eastern and southern Yoruba kingdoms and the Benin Kingdom both mutually consider each other to be one band of brothers from Ife and didn't by default see each other as enemies.

The Binis who were veteran long distance traders had the practice of settling down away from home, and establishing resident trading communities. The Bini resident trading communities often remit tributes (from trade gain) back home to their king through their leaders known as "Olotu Ado", or "Olotu Ekiran", or, in bigger towns, "Balekale".

On the whole then, conflicts between these kingdoms appear basically in the context of trade disputes as opposed to imperial ascendancy which it has usually been often misrepresented based on exaggerations from the Benin side back at home.

No doubt, the Benin kingdom appears to be the militarily stronger brother-kingdom in that axis. Other kingdoms in the axis may then have, for this particular reason, acknowledged its seniority with gifts as is often the custom even among other Yoruba kingdoms in the interior.

But imperial rule and domination was clearly out of the question from the account of these other kingdoms.

Gbam!

Bini settlers in foreign lands sending remittance tribute to the oba of Benin doesn't mean Benin controlled those lands as some sort of imperial power

The most apparent case I was exposed to of this was Lagos

macof:


Gbam!

Bini settlers in foreign lands sending remittance tribute to the oba of Benin doesn't mean Benin controlled those lands as some sort of imperial power

The most apparent case I was exposed to of this was Lagos

Thanks macof. Please share the information regarding the Lagos case whenever you have the chance to.

It is irritating that in this age, the average layperson still can not fathom the basic idea that the historical relationship between two kingdoms will naturally have at least two sides to narrate it.

For example, many people are unaware of the fact that there is, what is known in academia as, the "Lagos account" which identifies Ashipa as an Awori prince, of Ife royal descent, from Isheri.

Usually, whenever there was some historical relationship between Benin and another kingdom, most layperson often assume that there is only one side to the story --- namely: the Benin/Wikipedia side to the story.

No people, two kingdoms are involved. And it almost always turns out that the two sides do not even agree on certain aspects of the story.

Cheers!

sesan85:




Dude, Usen people still speak Yoruba and
bear Yoruba names too. Usen people came from Ile
Ife and their king is Elawure (Olu Awure). Stop lying.

Get off my mention again we Esans do not speak or bear yoruba names. What is all these nonsense trying to force Edo to be yorubas ! Please face your culture and we face ours! If you still trying to go on Benin conquered ondo and lagos! Hence the names you put up there. Also dude do your freaking geography Esans are uromi, ekopma, ubiaja, emu, irrua, etc where the Bleep did you see usen! Please run along afonjas!

sesan85:

Degenerate, despicable, ill-educated Edo prostitute with abysmal comprehension skill. So, in your warped, low IQ brain, USEN people are the same as ESAN people abi? Monumental slowpoke!

Lol. Take it easy on them, ẹdákun-dábọ̀.

Comprehension seems to be a scarce 'commodity' at their end.

Àwọn alágbárí gbígbẹ.

TAO11:

Lol. Take it easy on them, ẹdákun-dábọ̀.
Comprehension seems to be a scarce 'commodity' at their end.
Àwọn alágbárí gbígbẹ.

Lol, they're very annoying ni jare.

Wale03:
My brother I'm from Edo state, my name is Ajayi Oluwole, I speak Yoruba as my first language and I'm from ovia south west of Edo state, there are many villages in Ovia local government that are been oppressed by the Oba of Benin, I'm from Usen town and we don't speak Bini but Yoruba, Utese is also a Yoruba town in Edo south and we speak same dialect the Ikale of ondo speak, so learn more about your Edo and stop spreading lies, we in ovia see ourselves more as Yoruba than Benin, more time we have fought to be merge with Ondo state but the Oba always suppress such moves
Which Edo people speak Yoruba as a second language Don't say what you don't know.
There are tribes in akoko-edo LGA that speaks Yoruba asides them no other tribes speaks Yoruba in Edo state. Historically the akoko-edo people are Yorubas captured by the great Benin empire.

Your are quoting the wrong person sir, I didn't mention Edo.

sesan85:


Typical Osu IPOB Igbo. So ignorant and proud of it. The Ana Ife people of Atakpame and Kambole must be from Potopoto Arochukwu.

You make me laugh, though the Ana ife people are of yorubas extraction, they don't speak Yoruba & it will be wrong to call them yorubas.

And not everyone on nairaland is ipob, though born & bred in naija, I'm a togolese.

If you say so boss. I'll have to check Google to verify this.

MODIFIED:

Contrary to what you know, there are actually indigenous Yorùbás in Togo, not called Yorùbás but they speak the language and have a different dialect.

Check again sir, they might be of yoruba extraction but they don't speak the language.

Abebelinus:
Rekardo Agbor Is not from Delta State, but from cross River State... Pls correct that

Hello. Please can we go n talk about sexxxx in romanse section?

sesan85:


Fathia's father is Urhobo, not Itsekiri. Her mother is however Yoruba.

Fathia Williams popularly or formerly known as "Fathia Balogun". She got her surname changed because she got married to a yoruba man "Saheed Balogun".

Fathia is a full blooded urhobo lady from Agbon kingdom, Ethiope East LGA local area of Delta state where I am from. Please don't dish out false information.