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What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? - Religion (7) - Nairaland

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Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by DeOTR: 11:46am On Aug 02
@Raymondfayowole
You like going in circles.
How can you say the law of Moses was added so that the Israelites wouldn't be breaking the ten commandments?
Is that not contradicting the verse you quoted the last time (Gal. 3:19), that the law (what you termed common law) was added because of transgression?
Is sin not the transgression of the law- 1 John 3:4 (the ten commandments)?
the ordinances was added because they were breaking the moral law, not to prevent them from breaking it.
That's why I said, the ordinances serve as remedies for sin (breaking the 10 commandments).
If you fornicate for instance, you've broken the ten commandments. To atone for your sin, you have to refer to the ordinances for the necessary sacrifice.
Now that we are in the era of grace, we only need to turn to Jesus because he has paid the full sacrifice.

As a Christian, you're a sinner if you break any of the commandments written on stones, but you're not required to be circumcised, abstain from eating certain foods or meats.
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by DeOTR: 12:45pm On Aug 02
@Raymondfayowole

I didn't need to mention Col. 2:17.
The main issue here is, what are the shadows of things to come? Ordinances! What laws are part of these ordinances? I believe, with the preceding verses, they are laws that pertain to what you can eat, drink, touch (Col. 2:20). The law that required you to be circumcised. The law that required you to make animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of your sins. The law that required you to observe the annual sabbaths. The Sabbath, the 4th commandments, is never a part of these ordinances.
Jesus kept the Sabbath, Paul kept it (the records are all over the book of Acts).
How does resting on God's prescribed day have anything to do with not touching, not tasting, or not handling (Col. 2:20-21).
If it's still wrong to kill, serve other gods, how is it right to change the sabbath to sunday?
I'll take you seriously if you can prove to me you can make heaven by just calling Jesus and at the same time, breaking the ten commandments
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by Raymondfayowole(m): 2:26pm On Aug 02
DeOTR:
@Raymondfayowole

I didn't need to mention Col. 2:17.
The main issue here is, what are the shadows of things to come? Ordinances! What laws are part of these ordinances? I believe, with the preceding verses, they are laws that pertain to what you can eat, drink, touch (Col. 2:20). The law that required you to be circumcised. The law that required you to make animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of your sins. The law that required you to observe the annual sabbaths. The Sabbath, the 4th commandments, is never a part of these ordinances.
grin Argue with bible passages and not your opinion. I will still bring out the same bible passage for you.

Colossians 2:16-17
v16. So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
v.17. which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

I told u earlier, the law is the law. You can't decide to follow one and neglect another. You don't get to choose to follow 10 commandments and ignore the rest, that's a curse on you.

Deuteronomy 28:1,15
[1]“Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.
[15]“But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

It was the same curse paul was referring to in Galatians 3:10

[10]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

I told you matt 5:17...all of the law has been fulfilled.

Argue with bible passages and not your personal opinion.

DeOTR:

Jesus kept the Sabbath, Paul kept it (the records are all over the book of Acts).
How does resting on God's prescribed day have anything to do with not touching, not tasting, or not handling (Col. 2:20-21).
If it's still wrong to kill, serve other gods, how is it right to change the sabbath to sunday?
I'll take you seriously if you can prove to me you can make heaven by just calling Jesus and at the same time, breaking the ten commandments

grin Yes I agree Jesus and Paul kept Sabath and they did so for a reason. Let me explain that to you.

It would be blasphemous for Jesus to come and start preaching against the law of moses because it was also the law of God. ( if you don't knw this, google about this and make your research why it's also called law of moses). The law was established for a purpose...and when that purpose has been accomplished what then is the usefulness. Read the whole of matt 12 and see how Jesus Christ condemned the law of sabbath.

Paul on the other hand preached on sabbath day based on missionary work considering the number of crowd he will see on sabbath day. Read the whole of Acts 13. But I will bring out some verse for you.

Acts 13:44-45
[44]On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
[45]But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul.

The purpose of the law from onset was to bring the to christ and christ death on the cross fulfilled the law. Ask me why Christians are to worship on the first day of the week and I'll gladly answer you.
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by Raymondfayowole(m): 2:49pm On Aug 02
DeOTR:
@Raymondfayowole
You like going in circles.
How can you say the law of Moses was added so that the Israelites wouldn't be breaking the ten commandments?
Is that not contradicting the verse you quoted the last time (Gal. 3:19), that the law (what you termed common law) was added because of transgression?
Is sin not the transgression of the law- 1 John 3:4 (the ten commandments)?
the ordinances was added because they were breaking the moral law, not to prevent them from breaking it.
That's why I said, the ordinances serve as remedies for sin (breaking the 10 commandments).
If you fornicate for instance, you've broken the ten commandments. To atone for your sin, you have to refer to the ordinances for the necessary sacrifice.
Now that we are in the era of grace, we only need to turn to Jesus because he has paid the full sacrifice.

As a Christian, you're a sinner if you break any of the commandments written on stones, but you're not required to be circumcised, abstain from eating certain foods or meats.

Please quote the post again, so I'll explain whatever is there for you. So you added ten commandments to your 1john 3:4.

If you want to practice ten commandments nobody is against you. You are free to do so..but there's a curse for those that practice part of the law and neglect some.

Deuteronomy 28:1,15
[1]“Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.
[15]“But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:


Read my earlier post for more concerning that.
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by DeOTR: 7:54pm On Aug 03
Raymondfayowole
So you added ten commandments to your 1 John 3:4?
If you have another commandment you think he's referring, let us know.
1 John 2:4 "He that says, I know him, and keep not his commandments, is a liar, and truth is not in him".
Verse 7: "Brethren, I wrote no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning".
I told you Matt. 5:17:"...all of the law has been fulfilled.
Argue with Bible passage and not your personal opinion
Matt. 5:17 "Think not that I am come to DESTROY the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to FULFILL".

1. Define DESTROY according to the verse?
2. What's your definition of the word FULFILL according to the Bible?
Matt. 12, Jesus condemned the law
How? For allowing his hungry disciples to pluck the ears of corn to eat or for healing on the sabbath?
Why shouldn't one do what's absolutely necessary on the sabbath?
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by DeOTR: 8:18pm On Aug 03
Raymondfayowole

The law was established for a purpose...and when that purpose has been accomplished, what then is the usefulness?
Since you think the ten commandments is part of the useless laws that should be discarded, please do me a favor, list out the contents of the ten commandments. For the sake of people like us who don't read the Bible.
Paul preached on sabbath day based on missionary work.
Take your own advice, use Bible verses to support your assumptions, not your personal opinion.
Acts 13:42 "...the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath".
This was a perfect situation for Paul to tell those Gentiles to just come on sunday if he keeps sabbath on the first day now.
We found no record of a single Apostle holding church service on the first day, none at all.
If Jesus and the Apostles kept the sabbath, in whose foot step are you treading, doing otherwise?
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by Raymondfayowole(m): 10:43pm On Aug 03
DeOTR:

Since you think the ten commandments is part of the useless laws that should be discarded, please do me a favor, list out the contents of the ten commandments. For the sake of people like us who don't read the Bible.

Lol...there's no need typing d contents of ten commandments for you. I only told you that the law was to served a particular purpose and I'll bring it back again if you fail to comprehend.

Galatians 3:19,24-25
[19]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
[24]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Sons and Heirs

Argue with bible passages. Read and comprehend.


DeOTR:

Take your own advice, use Bible verses to support your assumptions, not your personal opinion.
Acts 13:42 "...the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath".
This was a perfect situation for Paul to tell those Gentiles to just come on sunday if he keeps sabbath on the first day now.

Sabbath day and first day of the week are 2 different days. I'm really shocked u dont knw this...u still need to read the bible very well. And if you think a physical structure is the church...I'll consider all this argument as a waste of time.

All church should be in the marketplace and evryday thing according to acts 17:17. Because that's what you're saying since he preached on sabbath.

I told you he was on missionary duty, he knew the Jews would be there, and he used that opportunity to teach them about Jesus.

Note the clear warning from paul as why the law could not serve as a basis for their salvation. Ga 5:4; Ro 3:28 and the Jews died to the Law the moment they became Christians. Ro 7:4-7

It just saddens my heart becos u dont read these bible passages. It is clearly stated...its not compulsory u understand A level English to comprehend it.


DeOTR:

We found no record of a single Apostle holding church service on the first day, none at all.
If Jesus and the Apostles kept the sabbath, in whose foot step are you treading, doing otherwise?

I'll repeat the same tin again. Don't think the church is a physical building.

The Law of Moses was still in effect prior to the death of Christ. As an Israelite, Jesus kept the Law (along with the Sabbath). He displayed authority to forgive sin and interpret the Law. Mt 9:6; 12:8

So I follow the footsteps of Jesus Christ becos he has all the authority to interpret the Law. Matt 12:8
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by Raymondfayowole(m): 10:57pm On Aug 03
DeOTR:

If you have another commandment you think he's referring, let us know.
1 John 2:4 "He that says, I know him, and keep not his commandments, is a liar, and truth is not in him".
Verse 7: "Brethren, I wrote no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning".

So y didn't u continue to verse 8

I John 2:8
[8]Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

Read your bible very well.


DeOTR:

Matt. 5:17 "Think not that I am come to DESTROY the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to FULFILL".

1. Define DESTROY according to the verse?
2. What's your definition of the word FULFILL according to the Bible?

How? For allowing his hungry disciples to pluck the ears of corn to eat or for healing on the sabbath?
Why shouldn't one do what's absolutely necessary on the sabbath?

Hahahaha....seems you don't know anything about the law of sabbath..if you do, you wont type this.

You just shot ursef multiple times. Jesus can't destroy the law becos it's also the law of God. He came to fulfil it, I.e to accomplish the purpose of the law. I wont type the purpose of the law again...read my previous post. And u failed to quote v18 of matt 5....it says all, nt even the smallest letter of the law will b left out.

Let me bring out the law of sabbath for u...

Exodus 31:15
[15]Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Like I said before, the law is the law...u cant practice the part that favors u and leave the rest. That's a curse. So u asked how Jesus condemned the law...and that's how.

Read your bible very well.
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by DeOTR: 8:35am On Aug 04
@Raymondfayowole
1 John 2: Up till verse 7, John was talking about keeping a commandment and he made it clear in verse 7 that they're not different from the ones of old. How does verse 8 change the facts in the previous verses?

Matt. 5:17-18: You need to answer my questions. I'll post it again.
1. Define "DESTROY", and...
2. Define "FULFILL" according to Matt. 5:17.
3. Explain what Jesus meant in verse 19?

Ten commandments: I want you to list them out. Let's see the laws you said have served their purposes. Is that too much to ask?

Paul and sabbath: In Acts 13:42, those who asked Paul to teach them next sabbath are Gentiles, not Jews.
Since, according to you, church is an everyday thing, why didn't Paul simply invite them to his sunday service to hear the words again? At least, his audience were Gentiles right?

You claim to follow the steps of Jesus. Jesus kept the sabbath, you don't.
How does Jesus being the Lord of the sabbath interprete to mean his followers don't have to keep it?
Re: What Is Your Understanding Of Sabbath? by Raymondfayowole(m): 5:15pm On Aug 04
DeOTR:
@Raymondfayowole
1 John 2: Up till verse 7, John was talking about keeping a commandment and he made it clear in verse 7 that they're not different from the ones of old. How does verse 8 change the facts in the previous verses?

My problem here is u fail to read and comprehend. Stop being myopic and open your mind.

1 John 2:3-6, talks about the fellowship with Jesus Christ. v6. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. You agree with me that the word in bold was referring to Jesus Christ right?

If we continue down to v7, John continues to discuss one commandment in particular, "An Old, Yet New Commandment". He does not write about something totally new to them, but something they had heard "from the beginning" i.e Was given to your fathers at the first forming of the covenant- Leviticus 19:18 and also from the beginning of the gospel- Matt 5:43.

If we then proceed to v8 and 9, we see that it is a new commandment in the sense that, it is ever fresh; though old in time, it is never stale because It is a commandment that is ever true in Jesus, and it is true in His disciples. It is both true and new because "the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining". With the coming of the Messiah (Jesus), light has begun to penetrate the darkness. Isa 9:2; Mt 4:13-17; Jn 1:4-9; 8:12

IT IS THE COMMAND TO "LOVE ONE ANOTHER and NOT the 10 commandments. verses 9-11 tells us that and It is stated clearly in 1Jn 3:11; 4:21. This command was "from the beginning" (of the gospel) -Jn 13:34-34; 15:12,17.

Please quote my post with bible passages stating otherwise. I dare you to, if you're so sure the command was referring to 10 commandments. Pls give me bible passage. I'm waiting ooo


DeOTR:

Matt. 5:17-18: You need to answer my questions. I'll post it again.
1. Define "DESTROY", and...
2. Define "FULFILL" according to Matt. 5:17.
3. Explain what Jesus meant in verse 19?

Ok. I'll grant you your wish since you fail to comprehend.

1. Destroy in that context: To abrogate; to deny their divine authority; to set people free from the obligation to obey them.

2. Fulfill according to Matt 5:17: To complete the design; to fill up what was predicted; to accomplish what was intended in them.

3. v19. continues that "Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

What he meant was simple- HIS COMMANDMENTS. I.e the commandments they were hearing from him. That's why he went further to explain that if you want to be a citizen of the kingdom of heaven, your righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and pharisees, because they were known to say and not practice the law. They were teachers of the law but fail to practice it.

That clearly explains that the least in the kingdom are those that breaks these commandments and teaches men so, but the great are those that practice and teaches them.

DeOTR:

Ten commandments: I want you to list them out. Let's see the laws you said have served their purposes. Is that too much to ask?

Paul and sabbath: In Acts 13:42, those who asked Paul to teach them next sabbath are Gentiles, not Jews.
Since, according to you, church is an everyday thing, why didn't Paul simply invite them to his sunday service to hear the words again? At least, his audience were Gentiles right?


Listing out the Ten commandment is not the problem here, which you know. I'll gladly list the ten commandments for you if you list all the laws of the old testament. You're just being myopic and that's the truth. I explained the 2 first and great commandments, are found in matt 22:36-40. It still goes back to tackle your point in 1jn 2:7 claiming that the bible passage was referring to 10 commandments. u can clearly see u're a baby in the word of God, u still have a lot of reading to do. The law has served it purpose and all the law has been summarized to 2 things which I wont go back to again, hence LOVE is the fulfilling of the law.

Don't get me wrong, you can go back and read my post. I did not say church is a evryday thing. I only said if Paul preached evryday and in the market place, then the church shuld be in the market place and b a evryday thing since you said Paul preached on Sabbath day. I told you he was on missionary duty and he also utilized the Sabbath during his evangelistic efforts. He knew the Jews would be there, and he sought to teach them about Jesus.

I'll repeat myself again, the Jews died to the Law when they became Christians. Ro 7:4-7 and the Law and ordinances like the Sabbath and circumcision should not be bound on others, especially Gentiles. Col 2:16-17; Ga 5:1-4.

DeOTR:

You claim to follow the steps of Jesus. Jesus kept the sabbath, you don't.
How does Jesus being the Lord of the sabbath interprete to mean his followers don't have to keep it?

For a fun fact, which I know you dont know, All the commands regarding the Sabbath are directed toward Israel, no other nation. The exception was "the stranger" in Exo 20:10. The exception was to prevent being influenced to disobey Neh 13:15-21.

Sabbath day and the law of surrounding it was a sign between God and His people Israel - Exo 31:13,16-17; Eze 20:12,20 Just like circumcision, the Sabbath served as a sign between God and Israel. There is no indication that the Sabbath was intended for all of mankind. Show me the bble passage and I'll take you serious.

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