Bobbyaf:

@ Jerrymania

As was confirmed by Geneis 2:7

You see, Adam was not a dead soul before recieving the "breath of life". He was simply lifeless, not dead. The transition only took place after God blew the breath of life into his nostrils. Noticed the bible said that man became a living soul, and not that man possessed a soul? To become something and to have something are two different things.

Satan has decieved the masses into thinking that man's soul is eternal, so that when he dies his soul lives on. Because of this man does not see the need to accept God's plan of salvation through Jesus' sacrificial death. Whats the point he asks, when my soul can't die? My soul will take another form somehow and continue living.

See where I am going with this? So in essence the word soul means life, being, person, creature, etc. The prophet says "the soul that sins shall die", and the death of which he speaks is both the natural death, as well as the eternal death.

Bobbyaf:

Simplify that for a 6 year old. What does soul mean in that verse? Give me one word.

Bobbyaf:

As was confirmed by Geneis 2:7

You see, Adam was not a dead soul before recieving the "breath of life". He was simply lifeless, not dead. The transition only took place after God blew the breath of life into his nostrils.

Bobbyaf:

Noticed the bible said that man became a living soul, and not that man possessed a soul? To become something and to have something are two different things.

Bobbyaf:

Satan has decieved the masses into thinking that man's soul is eternal, so that when he dies his soul lives on. Because of this man does not see the need to accept God's plan of salvation through Jesus' sacrificial death. Whats the point he asks, when my soul can't die? My soul will take another form somehow and continue living.

Bobbyaf:

See where I am going with this? So in essence the word soul means life, being, person, creature, etc.

Bobbyaf:

The prophet says "the soul that sins shall die", and the death of which he speaks is both the natural death, as well as the eternal death.

Quote from: Bobbyaf on Yesterday at 05:53:13 AM
Simplify that for a 6 year old. What does soul mean in that verse? Give me one word.

"Creature" - that is the word in Hebrew in that verse and applies to both man and animals. I have earlier stated that "The exegesis of the soul in Scripture points to the component that identifies man in his distinct personality" - and that was just to help us seek a proper contextual meaning of the word "soul" as used in Scripture for man.

Bobbyaf, what exactly do you mean by the "breath of life"?

Quote from: Bobbyaf on Yesterday at 06:09:11 AM
Noticed the bible said that man became a living soul, and not that man possessed a soul? To become something and to have something are two different things.

Could you kindly enunciate from Scripture the difference between "possessing" and "becoming" something in regards especially to the soul?

Quote from: Bobbyaf on Yesterday at 06:09:11 AM
Satan has decieved the masses into thinking that man's soul is eternal, so that when he dies his soul lives on. Because of this man does not see the need to accept God's plan of salvation through Jesus' sacrificial death. Whats the point he asks, when my soul can't die? My soul will take another form somehow and continue living.

Instead of pushing your own agenda, why don't you try and exercise the humility of sharing your persuasions without assuming that counter views to yours are the result of Satan having deceived anybody? What if it turns out that your pride is actually contrary to what Scripture teaches?

That the soul survives the death of the [physical] body does not mean that people therefore see no need to accept God's gift of salvation in Christ.

That idea as expressed in your post is a farce and a mechanical device to assume things that are far-fetched.

Scripture reveals that the soul survives the death of the body; however, it is a question of what state of existence the soul is found in after it leaves the body. It is rather another type of existence that the soul experiences.

That this is the case is what the Bible teaches in such verses as 1 Kings 17:21-22 --

'And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD,
and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him
again, and he revived.'

What actually happened in this narrative is simple to follow. The child was dead and his body was there before Elijah; but his soul was not in the body. The prphet prayed: "let this child's soul come into him again." This simply demonstrates that te soul was still existing, albeit OUTSIDE his body. When God answered Elijah's prayer, then "the soul of the child came into him again".

Question: where was this child's soul before it returned to ("came into. . . again" his body?

Again, Luke 16 highlights the fact that the soul survives the death of the body. Both the rich man and Lazarus died (v. 22) and we see their existence beyond their bodies in the grave (v. 23-31). Many people argue that since this was a "parable", it could not be teaching the realities of existence beyond the grave - and so they just disregard its value. My simple answer to such attitude is that they should also be ready to disregard the value of any and all the parables in the Bible - if parables are merely meant to be disregarded at all!

Another example, we find that Revelation 6:9-10 specifically demonstrates that the saints who were slain actually were seen as "souls" without their bodies. Beyond that, these souls without bodies were heard as "they cried with a loud voice". Please note that this was not a parable; and we cannot deny its fact as a reality beyond our known physical world.

These scriptures cited [1 Kings 17:21-22; Luke 16; Revelation 6:9-10] are examples that point out the fact that the soul survives the death of the body; and unless you have an alternative exegesis for those texts, please have the humility of refraining from assumptions of thinking others have been deceived by Satan.

Bobbyaf:

@ Pilgrim

I am glad you have given a definition rather than what you think soul means.

Bobbyaf:

The spirit, The bible uses both interchangably.

Bobbyaf:

I don't have to Pilgrim. Open your eyes. Didn't Genesis say man "became' a living soul? Why waste time asking the obvious?

Bobbyaf:

Has Satan decieved the likes of the Hindus, Bhuddists, and others, including some christians that teach that the soul of man is eternal?

Bobbyaf:

I was the one who reminded one and all that Ezekiel said that "the soul that sinneth shall die" The soul of mankind is mortal and is subject to death, and that is why my so-called agenda is in keeping with Holy Writ. I take pride in pushing a biblical agenda.

Bobbyaf:

The soul is simply a descriptive expression, not an internal entity to be survived or separated from the body after death. That is why Ezekiel said the soul that sins shall die, which means it shall cease to exist, unless God restores the spirit or breath of life, causing the soul, or being, or creature, or person to come back to life.

Bobbyaf:

The idea is very much a stark reality. Open your eyes and take a look.

Bobbyaf:

That sounds like pure speculation, not scripture. Go back to what Ezekiel the inspired prophet said about the soul that sinneth. In other words, the person that sins, and I supect in a broader context means, the person that lives a life of sin will experience the eternal death. We are already aware of the natural death that comes upon man because of Adam's sin.

pilgrim.1:

All the foregoing citations are just examples in scripture where the word "soul" is used in particular reference to the persons themselves rather than to the distinct component as seperate from the other components ("spirit" and "body". It is in the former sense (where "soul" is the person in particular) that the prophet Ezekiel applies the word "soul" in Ezekiel 18:4 & 20.

pilgrim.1:

However, when you look carefully at the topic of this thread [Spirit, Soul And Body - What's the Difference?], you'll see that [size=14pt]we are rather trying to examine the various components of man[/size]; rather than assuming the context of "soul" merely for the totality of person.

Bobbyaf:

Soul in this context means life.

Bobbyaf:

Save yourself the expliquee. An interplay of words used here in the passage no doubt is unique, but it doesn't change the real definition of what the soul really is. Its an expression that describes the composite existence of man and animals. Another rendition (NKJV)puts it this way,

Bobbyaf:

1 Kings 17:21 And he stretched himself out on the child three times, and cried out to the LORD and said, “O LORD my God, I pray, let this child’s soul come back to him.” 22 Then the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came back to him, and he revived.

1 Kings 17:21(NIV) Then he stretched himself out on the boy three times and cried to the LORD, "O LORD my God, let this boy's life return to him!"

Bobbyaf:

For the first passage notice the big difference in meaning between "into him" and "back to him"

Bobbyaf:

For the second rendition I don't need to say what the word soul means. Its what I have said before. Soul means life in that particular context.

Bobbyaf:

It was nowhere! Its just an expression. When a person dies the soul has no reason to exist, since its just another word to describe that person who still has the breath of life or spirit in him.

Bobbyaf:

Not all parables should be taken literally. Imagry used by Jesus, as was the custom of most biblical writers, was never meant to be taken seriously. Don't focus on the metaphoric imageries, rather focus on the deeper meaning of what Jesus desired to point out. Do you really believe that one drop of water will be able to quench the thirst of anyone? Do you really believe that vast amount of people will be resting in the bosom of Abraham? Parables carry an idea, that usually carries more significance that the imageries used to represent such ideas.

Bobbyaf:

Its your interpretation versus anyone elses. The book is in most cases highly symbolic. Sometimes John spoke in tenses that seemd historic, but had to do with furure actions. The event that took place vis a vis the souls actually took place after John's time. In vision God took him forward to the event. He saw the souls of those who lived during the time of the persecutions during the dark ages.

Bobbyaf:

I just gave you a few above.

Bobbyaf:

As was confirmed by Geneis 2:7

You see, Adam was not a dead soul before recieving the "breath of life". He was simply lifeless, not dead.

noetic:

@ topic.

My opinion.

Soul and spirit:
In Genesis2:7 God breathed into man and he became a living soul, implying that before the breadth came into Adam, he was a dead soul

. . . <<snip>>

2)soul(psuche) a man physical life and consciouness, since I stated above that Adam was as good as dead without the breadth of life.

In truth, we all have the 4 wives in our lives:

Our 4th wife is our body. No matter how much time and effort we lavish in making it look good, it will leave us when we die.

Our 3rd wife is our possessions, status and wealth. When we die, it will all go to others.

Our 2nd wife is our family and friends. No matter how much they have been there for us, the furthest they can stay by us is up to the grave.

And our 1st wife is our Soul. Often neglected in pursuit of wealth, power and pleasures of the world. However, our Soul is the only thing that will follow us wherever we go. Cultivate, strengthen and cherish it now, for it is the only part of us that will follow us to the throne of God and continue with us throughout Eternity.

Thought for the day:

I do believe that man is unique among the three major creations of God (angels, man, and animals) in the sense that he stands at sort of a 'gap' between them;

Like the angels, he has/is a spirit being which by definition is able to communicate with God, able to determine right from wrong and able to "know" absolute truths ie able to acess divine revelation This spirit being also helps him to understand and relate to the spiritual dimension/realm.

Like the breathing animals however, he pocesses a physical body by which he is able to relate to and dwell in the physical/natural world.

And like both these groups, he pocesses a "soul" which is his seat of self-awareness and personality.

The difference is angels don't have physical bodies,

and animals don't have spirits

I believe the spirit has three main functions: communion, intuition and conscience.

These attributes of man are provided to him by his pocessing a spirit.
The soul, on the other hand, which is what most people are familiar with, comprises his mind, his will and emotions. I believe animals also pocess these attributes.

I believe there is a considerable difference in the makeup of pre-fall Adam, fallen man and regenerated man. This difference in makeup is a matter of the 'heirachy' so to speak with which he expresses the different parts of his makeup. Quite succintly, natural fallen man is predominantly 'soulish' or soul-driven (an extreme is people who are actually body-driven) while a regenerated believer is predominantly spirit-controlled via the help of the Holy Spirit of God who strengthens him in his spirit or inner man.

I do not believe that spirit can be interpreted to mean "breath of life" and I have a lot of evidence for that

That's just a brief summary of my views on the subject. Look forward to corresponding with you

Tayo-D:

One thing immediately jumps at us from the passage. The human body is lifeless without "the breadth of life".

In actual fact, the body is dead without the spirit. See James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead .

So does that equate the breadth of life to the spirit?

1.  The breadth of life is the same thing as the spirit.

2.  The spirit is a subset of the breadth of life.

Now with reference to the phrase that man became "a living soul", I think the best way to understand the phrase is how its used in comparison in the NT. 1 Cor 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. A difference is made between the first and the last Adam here as to how their lives are lived through the body. The first Adam lived his life mainly through his soul while the last Adam lived His life mainly through His spirit. Both Adams have a body, a soul and a spirit, but the most dominant aspect of their being is different in each case.

The question now remains: Which is the real persona?

I think this can be anwered very easily. First it is not the body since the man can exist outside of the body.

(Please see the story of Lazarus and so many others in the NT that talks about those who are in the grave but alive either in Heaven, Hell or Abraham's bossom,

and in the case of Moses and Elijah, on the Mt of transfiguration). The body is only necessary for him to rule and reign on the earth.

I believe the real man is the spirit despite the fact that he possesses a soul.

My conslusion is partly based on the fact that though God has a soul, He is by essence a spirit. Matthew 12:18 - Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. This scripture clearly shows that God possesses a soul though He is spirit - John 4: 24 - God is a Spirit: If man therefore possess a soul and a spirit like God, and he is made in God's likeness, it can be safely concluded that he must be spirit and possess a soul like God. Otherwise what is the likeness all about?

Abraham was visited several times by the hosts of heaven. the bible calls his visitors men. implying that they had flesh.
some children of God in genesis came down from heaven to mate with the daughters of earth.
metecheidek who recieved the first tithe ever, from abraham, is called The High Priest of God.
these examples are heavenly beings who have used the flesh/physical bodies to reach man.

I m sorry I never replied sooner.

what u have failed to do is clearly define in your own words what the spirit is.[/b]because to be honest with u, I have defined the spirit and so also have others, and in applying this same scriptures with that of apostle paul, it is obvious that they refered to certain attributes of man that clearly makes him whole and not a seprate entity refered to as spirit.

no. the spirit of man refers to certain attributes man pocesses. spirit (pneuma) the human mind, instincts and personal convictions. our ability to analyse,reason and comprehend, but u must observe, like u noted above that the breadth of live was one of the biblibically explicitly stated ingridients that God used to make man a living being. the spirit was not mentioned in this context.

if thats the case, the bible never said the breadth of life has a form or kind. it was just the breadth of GOD. so we agree that the spirit is a part of man that is formless and bodiless. so this way it cannot outlive man to ascend to heaven.

how?

i don't understand u. whats the diffence according to u between the soul and spirit the first and last Adam lived by? did the last Adam not also expirience pain, suffering, hunger, afflictions? was He not humiliated? was He not subject to the limitations and rules of nature? did He not cry and die like the first adam? are these things not physical afflictions limited to man? so how did He live His life tru d spirit?

the real personae is man.

then who is man? when was his body created? and when was man created?
see please stop using primordial believes to satisfy spiritual curiosities. the bible says man was created lifeless until he pocessed the braedth of life. the bible didnt say a body was created, followed by a spirit or soul. attempting to divide a man into these three concepts, when the creation and the purpose of man`s existence does not imply this is unfortunate.

i insist that, that was a parable and no where else was it mentioned that certain dead go abrahams bossom. to believe u, please reconcile the meaning oh hades and abrahams bossom.

I have told u my opinion on this and will still go back to it on d other thread.
but to understand my view, please read the four gospels account of the call of the disciples by Jesus and explain d difference.

i don't see any biblibical inscription that butresses your belief.

based on my definition of spirit and soul i agree with u. u know y?
just like I corrected ricadelide in my last post, Heavenly beings can take up human forms if they want to. but d main reason y i really agree with u is because, angels don't accept worship, but we have seen instances where they accepted worship, like the visit to abraham and joshua. so if these beings accept worship, they definitely cannot b angels who then visited these people? your guess is as good as mine.

sorry I am delaying my responses
cheers

Tayo-D:

3. In starting this parable, Jesus began by with the phrase: "There was", which shows He was talking about an event that took place.

kingsikaz:

Strong's concordance fails 2 differentiate between d three by saying that SPIRIT (pneuma in d Greek) is an "Immortal soul".

olabowale:

b.) host of heavens who are called by the bible men because they have flesh.

c.) some children of christian god, the children who came down from heaven as reported in genesis.
d.) the daughters of earth who were mated with by children of god (c), as in man woman mating.

e.) metchezdeket who received the first tithe from Abraham, who is also called the high priest of Children of Isreal god.

am going to assume here that the christians do not believe in the high priest status, as the old testament people do.  

The poster commented that all of these 5 or at least some of them are heanenly entities. Here are my Islamic questions; How many entities apart from Angels that are still heavenly entities?

Is there any really? Who are sons of Christian God (the three godhead)? Who were the daughters of the earth? Were they different from the Children of Adam, since Adam was the first of mankind created, and Eve being his wife, the first woman to be created? Are there another set of people apart from what came out of Adam and Eve?

It will make sense if these different set of daughters of the earth were not from Adam.

But I sure will like to know how are the now?

And we know that Adam and Eve's Children were males and females and they married from within the children pool,

but just not from the same pregnancy delivery!

What happened to the product of the relationships of the Christian god sons and daughters of the earth?

They all died or is there any part of the world that they occupied and will not die?

What happened to the high priest of the Torah people, Melchezdeket?

He is still alive or this is another of the Christians spiritual misteries, since there is no Physicality in anything of the Chrisrians? Afterall your worships are in spirit. there is no physicality, yet you erect Churches and go there to worship!

From the above one will see that Christian God had children even without  mother(s), greater beings or sons, than the lonely son Jesus, who came through a woman! Hence, I do not know what is the purpose of that great attachments to set him up to the same status as his father, Christian's god the Father?Afterall there were other sons who had came before to the earth,

It seems to point out that Jesus was not unique at all.

Then when we look at Melchezdeket, we see that he did not have father nor mother, nor beginning and no one from the Christians can tell us that he is dead already. See, even he is alive somewhere still, according to the christians.

So what will leave the body that will render it liveless, between the soul and spirit, if these two are not just different names for a single entity? Is soul not spirit that was breadth into the nostril of father Adam, the process whereby he came alive, turning a cured muddy heap to flesh of living and breadthing man?

What is faith in Christianity?

If you can do work, but you refuse to do it for the pleasure of God, even though you claim that you have faith in God, is that faith good enough, really?

In Islam True faith is to belief in the Oneness of God and at the sametime negates as in disbelief in anything that is against that belief in the One Singly God.

kingsikaz:

@ philgrim1

there was a mixed up somewhere. i intended to write 'rational soul'
check Strong's greek lexicon 4151 for more on spirit.

kingsikaz:

thanx 4 observation. you are a great wench.

m_nwankwo (m)
Norway
Posts: 121

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Re: Scientists Create First Synthetic Genome
« #11 on: Yesterday at 08:29:27 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The DNA is the blueprint or code for the physical body. It is not life since life is not physical. Life comes from God and it cannot be created. Technically, it is a possiblity that within 15-30 years molecular biologist can synthesize artificially the entire human genome. However even with this feat, it is incorrect to talk about creatting life since the very precursors used in artificially synthesizing the DNA molecule are already provided by God. Thus science does not create anything but through the union of already existing elements, it brings about new forms. It is more correct to say that science can form but cannot create. The spirit or "soul" which animates the physical body and its DNA is the only truely living part of man. This spirit or soul cannot be created by any creature, it is a creation of God. When the spirit withdraws from the body during physical death, the body and its DNA lack "life" and decays. Mainting cells or tissues in cultures is not living since such cells lack counciousness. It is is possible that the entire human genome can be synthesised and programmed to develop into a physical human body but it is impossible for this artificially created body to become a living man since the soul or spirit is lacking.

olabowale:

What all the christians on this forum have been unable to understand, God Almighty has provided the process of understanding through another one of His creations, M_Nwankwo.
Thereis nothing more to say. God has spoken the truth through His creation, M_Nwankwo. The understanding of SOUL/SPIRIT is for all to see. This is exactly what I have said in my several entries on this subject in the past. Alhamdulillah, Allah brought the understanding through another man. I suppose that M_Nwankwo is not a Muslim, yet. But for sure his heart is right, and he is on the path leading to the path of success!

m_nwankwo:
Life comes from God and it cannot be created.

The DNA is the blueprint or code for the physical body. It is not life since life is not physical. Life comes from God and it cannot be created. Technically, it is a possiblity that within 15-30 years molecular biologist can synthesize artificially the entire human genome. However even with this feat, it is incorrect to talk about creatting life since the very precursors used in artificially synthesizing the DNA molecule are already provided by God. Thus science does not create anything but through the union of already existing elements, it brings about new forms. It is more correct to say that science can form but cannot create. The spirit or "soul" which animates the physical body and its DNA is the only truely living part of man. This spirit or soul cannot be created by any creature, it is a creation of God. When the spirit withdraws from the body during physical death, the body and its DNA lack "life" and decays. Mainting cells or tissues in cultures is not living since such cells lack counciousness. It is is possible that the entire human genome can be synthesised and programmed to develop into a physical human body but it is impossible for this artificially created body to become a living man since the soul or spirit is lacking.

olabowale:

@Stimulus: Your lying blood will not allow you to tell the truth. M_Nwankwo said 'Man can not create life, because life comes from God alone, Who created it!'

olabowale:

I do not want to dignify your statement; I consider your thoughts foolish and unworthy of any further response.

olabowale:

You will not accept truth, as truth.

olabowale:

It is very shameful.

olabowale:

I will repost what the gentleman M_Nwankwo wrote for those people who are sincere. They may have diffrerent religions, but they do not blatantly lie as you just did above, bending the truth to satisfy you evil intent!