Sun of god:

It seems most people know their proposals will be detrimental to Nigeria.

However I think that their proposals are already plans and will soon be implemented by the 'agents' they have implanted into our government.

America and Europe are in trouble.

The further exploitation of Africa and their people will ease 'The Wests' pain in the short term.

spot on bro, when we have idiots ruling us, why wont we be kicked around like  football by shady international agencies set up to maintain the status quo. Sometimes people need to research under what condition such agencies like IMF,ADB,UN etc were formed to understand the nitty gritty of policies they come up with. Nigeria lacks the bargaining power hence they accept most policies hook, line and sinker. All to the detriment of the nation as a whole. Let heads come together and lets figure out our way out of this mess, oh!! thats just a far fetched idea of mine. I dont think the executive know what brainstorming or critical thinking is all about, well to say the least thats what the west think of African govts. Shell claims to have an official in every ministry in Nigeria with out the govt even noticing, it doesnt get any more embarrasing than this.

Why don't they ever propose the devaluation of dollar and Euro
To hell with IMF advise as if they really care about wats going on with our economy.
Whatever they say it'll do us more harm than good!

spot on bro, when we have idiots ruling us, why wont we be kicked around like  football by shady international agencies set up to maintain the status quo. Sometimes people need to research under what condition such agencies like IMF,ADB,UN etc were formed to understand the nitty gritty of policies they come up with. Nigeria lacks the bargaining power hence they accept most policies hook, line and sinker. All to the detriment of the nation as a whole. Let heads come together and lets figure out our way out of this mess, oh!! thats just a far fetched idea of mine. I dont think the executive know what brainstorming or critical thinking is all about, well to say the least thats what the west think of African govts. Shell claims to have an official in every ministry in Nigeria with out the govt even noticing, it doesnt get any more embarrasing than this.

Well said!

On the issure of Shell, depsite the gravity of the seriousness of this issue, nobody seems to care. Well, it is conform the interest of the so called rulers, so they cld not care less. My question is, what are the journalists doing? such revelations wld have  lead to parliamentary questions/enquiries in the developed world.
We seriously need to get our acts together, hold the bull by it's horns and learn to direct our affairs. And of course IMF and all these agencies will publish all sorts of reports from time-2-time, the big question is: What are we doing to make ourselves less dependent on agencies/bodies that are not out there to protect our interest?

MAURI:



Well said!

On the issure of Shell, depsite the gravity of the seriousness of this issue, nobody seems to care. Well, it is conform the interest of the so called rulers, so they cld not care less. My question is, what are the journalists doing? such revelations wld have  lead to parliamentary questions/enquiries in the developed world.
We seriously need to get our acts together, hold the bull by it's horns and learn to direct our affairs. And of course IMF and all these agencies will publish all sorts of reports from time-2-time, the big question is: What are we doing to make ourselves less dependent on agencies/bodies that are not out there to protect our interest?

Noble words, but the sad truth is nigeria is completely powerless and is totally at the mercy of the west, the current crop of nigerian leaders can not and will never challenge or oppose any IMF proposals. Why? because if they do, the west will ensure that they are removed from power. 

Nigerian journalists?  give me a break they are all hungry and running scared, who wants to die like Dele Giwa?
Most of the mainstream newspapers are owned by the same crooks, which nigerian journalist will have the balls to publish the truth? publish the truth and look forward to an early death, even if you do tell people the truth many will still condemn you for being a trouble maker and rabble rouser or even a "conspiracy theorist"!!!

To answer your question about us becoming less dependant - thats a bit like asking someone to slam the door after the horses have bolted, nigeria's problems with the IMF did not start today, we borrowed money in the 80s under the auspicies of the IBB administration, we are still paying off the interest on the money borrowed during that period, during OBJ's tenure we paid the Paris club £18 billion as PART payment of our debts, despite paying such a gargantuan sum in PART payment the west STILL made sure we were not completely off the hook, - why didnt OBJ insist that the paris club accept the $18billion in full and final settlement, given that the bulk of the debt was calculated by way of extortionate interest rates.

We have got to face up to the truth of our situation, nigeria was sold out to the west lock stock and barrell a long time ago, the current crop of nigerian leaders are NOT in a position to challenge the west because the west has been responsible for keeping them in power, the west provides them with military aid just the same way they did with Mubarak, therefore it is highly unlikely that the nigerian govt will turn around to try refuse any IMF proposals.

, and someone gon' call China common China? are u kidding me? even the US would not say that. If we could invest in our people and protect what we have, we'll get there, China keeps investing in her people and it worked for them, stealing, corruption and nepotism won't work for us never and that's the order of the day in Nigeria.

£1 should reach N1000 pls.

As usual cap28 understands the implication of the effect of the IMF.

Please for those that have the time, please take the time to read up on the IMF. A good starter would be (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund). Also take a look at the section that refers to IMF support for military dictatorship and see the different countries debt (including Nigeria) before the military dictator came to power and the level of debt when they came to power.

Off course this is a 2 way sellout. On the Nigeria side, our leaders are selling us out (they can siphon some of these cash to their fat swiss accounts), and also th IMF is also doing their part in offering these loans that put a country in deep debt. Debt is a way to control anyone or any country. The conditions of these loans are not good for the country taking the loan, these conditions (SAP as it was fondly called) have no positive contribution to the country in debt.

I am not trying to teach most people here how to suck eggs. . . . . but i want people to understand why one should be weary of the IMF. Their interest is not for the good of the nation. Published papers from them mean nothing, they will off course not highlight their real intentions.

On the flip side, if you reject the advances of the IMF, then the president gets pressured, sanctioned and kicked out or killed. Read up on the life of Omar Torrijos (Panamanian president killed in a plane crash in 1981) or the life of Ecuadorian president Jaime Roldos Aguilera (who dies in similar circumstances in 1981). This is not only happening in Africa. . , . .

We don't need the IMF to tell us when to devalue our naira. . . . . .

@Cap28

We have got to face up to the truth of our situation, nigeria was sold out to the west lock stock and barrell a long time ago, the current crop of nigerian leaders are NOT in a position to challenge the west because the west has been responsible for keeping them in power, the west provides them with military aid just the same way they did with Mubarak, therefore it is highly unlikely that the nigerian govt will turn around to try refuse any IMF proposals.

Thanks for the above observation, Capo. lol.
It's a very pragmatic presentation of the prevailing situation on the ground. However, going by the bolded sentence in the above quote, that was indeed the case with Egypt and Mubarak. The West did that in it's own interest i.e. Mubarak maintaining peace with Isreal and keeping the Islamic brothers in check. In the process, Mubarak excessively enriched himself and his cohorts losing sight of the plight of the average Egyptians; Unemployment rose, excessive corruption, nepotism, rise in food prices etc. Until the people said enough=enough!

“There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”

 - John Adams (second president of the United States of America)

“Despite world oil prices well in excess of the budget benchmark price, the government spent all current oil revenues and drew on savings in the Excess Crude Account, at a time when stabilisation called for a rebuilding of buffers, "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gbam!   This is the part that got me irritated the most. Nigerians have being condemning this for long but our president wouldn't bulge. Anyway, he's got no clues.

NO , we must must NOT devalue the Naira, if anything, it is way too undervalued, very typical of IMF . Pls Jonathan/ Nigeria try to do the right thing - DUMP THE DOLLAR if needed.  If they insist we devalue, we should dump the almighty dollar which is in serious limbo or come up with something better .

cap28:

Noble words, but the sad truth is nigeria is completely powerless and is totally at the mercy of the west, the current crop of nigerian leaders can not and will never challenge or oppose any IMF proposals. Why? because if they do, the west will ensure that they are removed from power. 

Also, often times, these instructions are conditionalities for obtaining loans from the IMF. IMF can't just tell us to do stuff for no reason unless we first go to them to ask for a favor.
ex. if we want a loan, we go to IMF and they tell us what we need to do in order to obtain a loan from them etc.
Many corrupt leaders use this as a way to get money for their private bank accounts. that's why most of the loan we get end up in swiss accounts anyways. and our oil profits are probably being used to pay interest for the loans.
we are just screwed all around.

I wish we had strong leaders to lead us in the right path.

But I do agree with you that there may be some covert operations going on

coldhearts:

NO , we must must NOT devalue the Naira, if anything, it is way too undervalued, very typical of IMF . Pls Jonathan/ Nigeria try to do the right thing - DUMP THE DOLLAR if needed.  If they insist we devalue, we should dump the almighty dollar which is in serious limbo or come up with something better .

No offense but you sound really ignorant when you say DUMP THE DOLLAR, like for real? Do you know how many power nations that have tried dumping the Almighty $$$, they failed and here a mere country not contributing to the dollar, yet u suggesting they dump the $$$. They would do that at their own peril.

Yes

EzeUche_:

Arguing with Kobojunkie can make anyone go insane. She has that way, that can piss anyone off. You are not the first and you definitely will not be the last to argue with her and give up. That is the way she operates. Most of the time I argue with her, it is never a pleasant experience. I leave with a migraine headaches.

Her circular arguments are always confusing, that she even forgets why she is arguing.

. . . . . .Well, then again, u aint the brightest bulb in the Chandelier either!

cap28:

Am actually amazed that many posters are not dismissing these proposals as just another conspiracy theory as they have done in the past whenever i have raised the dangers posed by the IMF to nigeria's economy.

EzeUche_:

When I say it, it is much more believable. A person who is always saying the sky is falling, will be seen as the village fool. However, when a person with a lot of titles says it, then this is much believable. I hope that helps you understand how Nairaland works. Some of the things you raise are conspiracy theories. However, there are many instances, that can be seen by Africans in how the IMF have destroyed our economies.

Wow! Oh boy! Is this a case of " . . . in the land of the blind" or "Pot calling Kettle black". . . . . ?

EzeUche_:

When I say it, it is much more believable. A person who is always saying the sky is falling, will be seen as the village fool. However, when a person with a lot of titles says it, then this is much believable. I hope that helps you understand how Nairaland works. Some of the things you raise are conspiracy theories. However, there are many instances, that can be seen by Africans in how the IMF have destroyed our economies.

cap28:

Sorry?? Titles?? what titles do you have that makes you beleivable? 

So you think because you've just learnt how to read and write that makes you an authority on any given subject?

Is it your tragic delusions of grandeur and comical and immature attempts at debating that have convinced you that you are "beleivable"?

Or is it your clueless bigotry and xenophobic babbling that makes you "beleivable".

A fool is a person who fails to heed words of warning beleiving that he knows best - that is definitely you.   

Since i have been on NL i have continued to highlight the dangers posed to the nigerian economy by the IMF but people like you have been too s.tup.id and dumb to listen and understand, now at the eleventh hour the IMF is once again knocking on nigeria's door preparing nigerians for another round of extreme poverty and suffering,  i should know because i was in nigeria during the first IMF sponsored austerity measures - keep displaying your limitless naivite and stu.pidity - may you and your family be the first casualties of the coming food shortages, petrol scarcity and mayhem.

Oh, ok, now I get it. I know what saying describes these two.

Here goes:

"WHEN TWO IBO FOOLS DECIDES TO GRAPPLE IN THE VILLAGE SQUARE. . . . "

benimeogu:

Yes IMF want Nigeria to devalue her currency because oil price is on the rise and they want to purchase our oil at a very low rate. Honestly, there is no rationale for the devaluation because Nigeria is not exporting much except for the oil. Our manufacturing sector is non productive, hence we import mostly every commodity we use in Nigeria. If Nigeria want to protect her currency as well as her reserve, they can impose some import restriction on non essential items like textile, toothpicks, fashion, etc, especially items that most Nigerians can improvise.
Please fellow Nigerians, tell Sir Jonathan not to listen to IMF and the western world.

Perhaps someone (you) can write a 20 page petition urging the FG NOT to listen to the IMF and the petition has to be signed electronically by Nlers and delivered to Mr. President.

Wait, you you want to ban "non-essential" item that cause little to no effect on import capacity, and then the ones that cause huge amounts of effect should be allowed to then right? Doesn't seem you would make a very good adviser either. Though you display the competence you lack something within.

Signed by Nairalanders why? Because Nairalanders know the details of the situation?? Because suddenly fear mongering and shouting that the devil is external means these Nigerians on Nairaland know more of the situation with our finances than those who see the real numbers do? ROFLMAO!!

Kobojunkie:

Signed by Nairalanders why? Because Nairalanders know the details of the situation?? ROFLMAO!!

Well yeah because Nairaland seems like most logical place he can get enough signatures because most agree to some sort. Ina addition to that, he was advocating; "please fellow Nigerians" which shows concern.

amor4ce:

[size=13pt]Would SAP not have worked here if not for corruption?[/size]
Anyway, I think this devaluation proposal would have been unnecessary if not for the way GEJ and his government have been consuming and spending huge sums. Has GEJ as president or governor ever debated actively and directly on any economic policy?

Very good question there. I have personally taken a look at some of the SAP policies.


http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:tICXgzOct30J:depot.gdnet.org/cms/grp/general/Nigeria_proposal.pdf+Nigeria+SAP&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj1aO1C_cz5lECLLgXbn3iGoC3JtALxzJiHlf_0WN5HcMXpEQXSagBE8Ep2TYEFzrPuWm9vUyar3Vu5b1poyibwCR7F8ZYwCiTPJULrUDUiRkg4TeZSvijYD5wz_czCcK4qZ3nD&sig=AHIEtbRWlfDw5n2l6yqFbEOpBRmbDAI3UA&pli=1





The stated objectives of the Nigerian SAP [/b]are to:
[b]
• restructure and diversify the productive base of the economy

• achieve fiscal stability and positive balance of payments

• set the basis for a sustained non-inflationary or minimal inflationary growth, and

• reduce the dominance of unproductive investments in the public sector.1

manny4life:


Well yeah because Nairaland seems like most logical place he can get enough signatures because most agree to some sort. Ina addition to that, he was advocating; "please fellow Nigerians" which shows concern.

Yes, leave the critical decision making in the country to yet more UNINFORMED individuals who only know how to pretend the OJUJU CALABAR is to blame for everything, even that which they wrought on themselves, BRILLIANT!!

Nigerians here don't necessarily have to know about Nigeria's finances; in fact on the contrary, most could care less. Bottom line is most are quite familiar with the basics, most have experienced this of some sought, most have thorough or extensive knowledge about the factors involved and the list goes on. Combine all this different people together and you get a driving, yet forceful opinion; one to reckon with.

For instance those who just have basics know what devaluing of currency mean, and also know how it affects the market and average consumers. They also know what is needed in place to perform such practice.

Those with experience perhaps like "you" have seen the govt as incompetent, you can tell of inflation, prices, you have questioned the govt. sanity on spending and its reserves etc. As you can see the list forever goes on.

manny4life:

Nigerians here don't necessarily have to know about Nigeria's finances; in fact on the contrary, most could care less. Bottom line is most are quite familiar with the basics, most have experienced this of some sought, most have thorough or extensive knowledge about the factors involved and the list goes on. Combine all this different people together and you get a driving forceful opinion; one to reckon with.

For instance those who just have basics know what devaluing of currency mean, and also know how it affects the market and average consumers. They also know what is needed in place to perform such practice.

Those with experience perhaps like "you" have seen the govt as incompetent, you can tell of inflation, prices, you have questioned the govt. sanity on spending and its reserves etc. As you can see the list forever goes on.

What Most Nigerians have experienced is corruption - not the result of common sense implementation of devaluation as one could obtain in a more common sense environment (corruption not a major factor).

Knowing the meaning of the term, DEVALUTION, DOES NOT suddenly give one understanding of what the situation really is. As I have said earlier, DEVALUATION in and of itself is NOT AN EVIL. It is used when it is necessary-- keyword NECESSARY. Many countries have in the past and previous times successfully devalued their currency to their advantage, so I see no reason for irrational reaction at the mere idea of devaluation, even worse a mere proposal from the IMF/world bank. From a majority of the comments on the issue it is easy to gather that many are quite unaware of the base situation we are in, financially, as a nation. So, I would not take most of the commenter seriously, and certainly would not support any of them speaking on my behalf, or the nations.

We have watched billions drain out from right under our noses in our democracy. Simply knowing the definition of a term and when it applies DOES NOT make one an expert.

No matter how many terms one can claim to know, there remains a big difference between an INFORMED opinion, and an opinion based on rumours and fears created  out of more rumours and fears.

** edited

manny4life:

No offense but you sound really ignorant when you say DUMP THE DOLLAR, like for real? Do you know how many power nations that have tried dumping the Almighty $$$, they failed and here a mere country not contributing to the dollar, yet u suggesting they dump the $$$. They would do that at their own peril.

my bad, apparently your problem is reading cos i said "dump the dollar if needed" and Nigeria may be a mere country to you but it is not to me. Anyway  emphasis on "if needed or come up with a better idea"- (an acknowledgement that my idea wasn't necessarily all that) . Eitherway, any idea can be used as a bargaining tool against devalue.

Yes even a few countries like Russia, China, south korea and many more considered that last year, i'm not sure if they did that yet.
I may not be good in business/ monetary issues but i do know that the dollar is overvalued which can have a long term negative effect on economies of the world even in Nigeria - common sense (if you did not get this point- go and google it up or read some books, it will help with your reading abilities too); perhaps IMF needs to focus on that dollar first before heading for the Naira or mere naira in your case.

Understanding the economics of Naira is important. I am going to try to explain that in layman's english, so that all the assumptions and theories thrown by many for or against can be fully dissected.

We need to understand whether its wise to keep "massaging" the naira through "pegging" strategies by selling the dollars at artificial value, as opposed to allowing the true value of the dollar to be reflected in the dutch auction between CBN and the banks, which would reflect the value of Naira in the economy.

Things we all need to keep in mind.

1. We print the naira for local consumption, which cost dollars to print.
2. Nobody accepts naira outside of Nigeria
3. All foreign trades are in dollars
4. We use dollars to help local businesses that depend heavily on foreign raw materials and goods and services.
5. There is no foreign exchange market, where the Naira is traded.

How do we get dollars into the economy
1. Nigerian meagre non oil exports
2. Nigerian crude oil exports (major part, hence the CBN has total power on the value)
3. Remittance (sending money to your loved ones back at home)

How is the dollar converted to Naira

1. Banks accept transfer from (remittance and business transactions) through their foreign syndicate and use it to balance their foreign transactions etc

2. Banks go to the CBN dutch auction and bid to buy the naira.

3. Banks hedge against the dollar in foreign markets by trading in the foreign market against the dollar in their accounts (which hardly happens because its a very risky strategy)

How has the Naira value been strong so far.

The central bank which plays the most part of making the dollar available for the banks have been releasing dollars to the banks at non competitive pricing, thereby not allowing the naira to move naturally based on the reserves we have left and the amount required by the banks for transaction, thereby limiting the movement of the naira by a very small percentage.

Whenever there is a shortfall in the availability of the dollars, they tap into the reserve to provide supply as opposed to allowing the short in supply to determine the auction price. Also remember that the banks pay CBN in Naira, which goes back to the vault and the CBN releases dollars to them in exchange at the rate the CBN is comfortable with.

Sanusi also printed more naira for the banks in the bailout strategies, which means, they were more Naira available in the market to buy more dollars, and the cycle continued.

The average GDP of Nigeria has not increased, we have not seen major infrastructural development to reflect the amount of money in the economy, which should be already noticed, with the influx of capital coming into the Nigerian economy from the reserves.

The question is not whether we should continue with this strategy of artificially massaging the value of the Naira. The question should be how long would this strategy be sustainable. This can be answered through answering this basic questions

1. Is our future oil production increasing?
2. Is oil price is at market high or market low?
3. Are we building infrastructure to aid export, i.e increasing our supply of the dollar to use to print more naira
4. Are we really developing significantly? If so in what sectors?
5. How long more would it take for us to dry up our reserves not only through massaging our currency value but through our yearly budgets that are going sky high,without infrastructural changes to reflect it,

The recommendation from IMF is just a proposal, the question we should ask ourselves is, is the current naira value over valued or under valued? And is the strategy sustainable.

let them devalue, already have enough dollars. will only make my money worth more. Honestly I dont see it happening cos since Joe came in the naira has been very stable

blink182:

let them devalue, already have enough dollars. will only make my money worth more. Honestly I dont see it happening cos since Joe came in the naira has been very stable

Since Joe came in? Are you people even serious with the things you say? Do you have any proof of the statement you have above?

They should go to hell.

Kobojunkie:

Since Joe came in? Are you people even serious with the things you say? Do you have any proof of the statement you have above?

My dear Kobo, you should know I'm into currency exchange, the naira has barely devalued since his regime started. The exchange rate has been hovering around it present price for a rather long time, this is not to say I'm a Jonathan follower cos i dont believe in him or his policies besides when last were you in nigeria or who keeps you updated

Kobojunkie:

I will say they were right on that one. We have, over the years, embraced banning as a solution to our problems leading to us having so many things on our banned list. But as we have all learnt, that has not helped any. So, definitely reducing the items on the banned list was not a banned idea. Only it was supposed to go with line with development in other areas. We have been registering an average growth of 7% for straight 2 years, according to the books, so it makes sense with that to suggest removing some items from the list.

On Devaluation, why has it worked for China, and why can't we make it work for us in similar fashion?

GOOD Grief!!!

Does anyone have a Basic understanding of Real Time - Economics!

Here we go! Kobo again putting her foot in her mouth
as usual, dont you have any grasp of Macro-Economics ,

You saying that the Govt should reduce the Banned List

1st of what is on the Banned List Industrial/Capital Goods or
Consumption/Perishable goods

Thats the 1st Question you should be asking

2nd - What der heck do you mean that Devaluation has worked for China?

U need to get real!!! China Imports Raw material and Capital Equipment
and exports "Finished Goods".

Devalution only work for those who can "effectively Capture" Global market share ie China, Japan, Korea and to a lesser effect "GermanY". These countries
i mentioned have a strong "Industrial Base" [/b]as they are higher up on the
"production chain".

[b]Nigeria is at the bottom of the "Production chain" ie resource extraction. so devaluing the Naira just makes its resouces even more cheaper and therefore not able to compete on the international market at a time when "Energy & Commodities goods are egistering an all time high at the moment.

Concusion: THE IMF IS SUCKERING the Nigerian Govt and "like Patsies" [/b]they may just take the [b]"Biat".

rebranded:


“Despite world oil prices well in excess of the budget benchmark price, the government spent all current oil revenues and drew on savings in the Excess Crude Account, at a time when stabilisation called for a rebuilding of buffers. [/b]Despite high inflation, the CBN reduced the rate on its standing deposit facility. In response to pressure on the currency, the CBN sold reserves rather than raise interest rate or let the exchange rate depreciate. The CBN recently raised interest rates, but short-term real interest rates remain negative,” the IMF noted in the statement.

Source: http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/imf-proposes-devaluation-of-naira/86434/

[b]The Part i highlighted in Bold is the real bone of contention
The depletion of this account which has alot to do with the change
in the Guard (ie Elections @ the state & Federal level) and other "Naija
she·nan·i·gans" at the Top-Most Politcal-Economic Level.

See Link here, http://odili.net/news/source/2011/feb/18/606.html

The IMF pointed this out but its common knowledge anyway,

The IMF are really worried about their Bosses (International Bankers/MNC's)
not getting paid their "Interest money Due plus access to cheaper resources/Overheads for the MNCs due to the Frigging "Currency War" that is now taking place as thE "BRIC/Emerging" markets did not take the Bait in referencing to "QE2".

Energy and Commodity prices are Hitting all time highs now as the Emerging markets (China, Brizil etc) are all Scrabbling to put their Surplus dollars to good use[b] instead of investing in "Football clubs" in the West and other non-essential "Bull-sh*** [/b]and resisting the lure of "QE2" Dollars flooding into their "Stock & Bond Markets".

The IMF are looking for "New Suckers"., lets pray for Divine Intervention
that the Nigerian Govt does not fall for this "Trash"