Mythology is not history, rather its an ancient story used to explain abstract concepts. Example; you read in your bible of snake talking to Eve or donkey talking to Balaam or Satan talking to Job. But that's the way ancient people wrote. It does not mean there was a real snake or real Eve or real donkey or real Balaam or real Job or real Satan. Its just mythology meant to teach something. Unfortunately, Europeans misinterpreted them as literal in your bible, so that the message the ancient people were trying to pass has been lost in religious dogmatism.
In African mythology, you hear of the wise tortoise who always outsmart other people or other animals to marry a kings daughter or to win some awards. It does not mean there was ever a wise tortoise or a king or a daughter to be married. Its mythology meant to explain abstract concepts. Again, that's the way ancient people wrote.
The problem is that you Christians have refused to grow up, so you believe your bible mythology is history. The white man has actually convinced you in the bible that a tortoise married a human being!. Its like an African believing there was a smart tortoise that married a kings daughter in ancient time. That's how childish and dumb it is to believe in most bible stories.
@kingxsamz never told you that Julius Caesar or Aristotle existed or not. He simply told you the truth that he doesn't know. But it doesn't change the history because as I said in my previous post, your belief has no impact on history.
The books by both Julius Caesar and Aristotle were written by themselves, not what people wrote about them. Julius Caesar wrote his Gallic wars after returning from war. Aristotle wrote most of his books in Egypt after Alexander the so called great invaded Egypt and brought in Greek settlers. You can't say that of anybody in the bible; expect Paul. However, researchers say Paul wrote just about 5 or 6 books. The only epistles that bible scholars consider authentic are Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon. The rest of so called letters by Paul are letters manufactured by the Roman empire in the name of Paul to impress upon the early Christians to obey certain rules.
Moses did not write Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. Researchers say the books were written over thousands of years by so many authors. Example; Moses died in the book of Exodus when the bible god said he won't get to the promised land but miraculously he wrote Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy after he died. How come?
Don't believe. Research it. The age of BELIEVING is gone. We're in the age of KNOWING.
sonofElElyon: I would have issues with it and address the issues, not say he is jobless..
That's the point..
And of course the Satan worshipper or his fellow worshipper can reply as well if he has a superior argument..
Lol, funny guy... The issue has been addressed many times, and I'm sure you see that everyday. You and I can agree that when one is being a nuisance, one should expect everything that comes with it. So yeah, he's jobless.
kingxsamz: It's not rocket science. Certain stories/names in the bible were adapted from somewhere or events that actually happened. Same way the Spider-Man movie is based in a real location, (New York) but we can't conclude that a man who shoots spider webs and flies in the air exists. But I don't expect much from folks who won't read the article but jump into conclusions that a donkey once talked simply because an inscription which contained a name was found. It's only a brain dead mofo that'll believe a snake and donkey talked simply because a 2000 year old book said so. But you'll call these same archeologists liars when they show you 'alleged' bone fossils of Dinosaurs. Who is fooling who?
I have tried to read what you wrote over and again but can't understand it. can you please tell me what you said in a plain language?
jacoik: I have tried to read what you wrote over and again but can't understand it. can you please tell me what you said in a plain language?
In simple terms, the fact that someone existed is not proof or validation of supernatural/miraculous claims made about them. If this archaeological find proves Balaam existed, it doesn't prove a donkey talked to him.
Bro like you have seen one of my comment on issues like this before? Super Man in Manhattan, Spider man in New York, King Kong on top of the statue of liberty..etc...theses are historic places in USA same as Babylon Jerusalem, Israel mentioned in the bible....so if some bunch of kids read marvel comics in 3000yrs to come, does tht mean Super Man and Spider Man actually existed? Religion hates logical and critical reasoning.
kingxsamz: It's not rocket science. Certain stories/names in the bible were adapted from somewhere or events that actually happened. Same way the Spider-Man movie is based in a real location, (New York) but we can't conclude that a man who shoots spider webs and flies in the air exists. But I don't expect much from folks who won't read the article but jump into conclusions that a donkey once talked simply because an inscription which contained a name was found. It's only a brain dead mofo that'll believe a snake and donkey talked simply because a 2000 year old book said so. But you'll call these same archeologists liars when they show you 'alleged' bone fossils of Dinosaurs. Who is fooling who?
Same could be said of you for your numerous anti Christian topics on nairaland but I respect the fact that you have a right to express your opinion provided it is not criminal..
Kindly respect the gentleman's rights also.. that's maturity.
Lol, funny guy... The issue has been addressed many times, and I'm sure you see that everyday. You and I can agree that when one is being a nuisance, one should expect everything that comes with it. So yeah, he's jobless.
Also people tuning into salt, sticks turning into snakes and certain man harboring wild animals(lions and tigers) in his ark for 100days without feeding them...or how polar bears and kangaroos ran from Antarctica and Australia to join them contemporaries in the ark.,
Lol, that could be tales by moonlight, I agree. But what would you call a book which its contents are filled with talking snakes, talking donkeys, virgin mothers, rising bones, flying men, men walking on water and living in Fish for days? You don't have a point.
Because a book written and edited over and over again thousands of years ago says so right? same book that talks about talking donkeys ns snakes huh? that some book also talked about a certain man that ws swallowed by a fish for 3dys nd he walked home the 3rd day..that is the book you believe and set your life's standards around abi? It will not be well with those that brought religion to Africa.
seproperties: The Bible is Real and True .Jesus is Lord and Alive . Ignorance is an Incurable Disease.
kingxsamz: It's not rocket science. Certain stories/names in the bible were adapted from somewhere or events that actually happened. Same way the Spider-Man movie is based in a real location, (New York) but we can't conclude that a man who shoots spider webs and flies in the air exists. But I don't expect much from folks who won't read the article but jump into conclusions that a donkey once talked simply because an inscription which contained a name was found. It's only a brain dead mofo that'll believe a snake and donkey talked simply because a 2000 year old book said so. But you'll call these same archeologists liars when they show you 'alleged' bone fossils of Dinosaurs. Who is fooling who?
Your fallacy of false analogy baffles me. Let’s start with the first claim Certain stories/names in the bible were adapted from somewhere or events that actually happened. How can you prove this claim? Are we to believe you than the book (which many of it’s skeptical historical figures and locations are being confirmed) because you are omniscient? Same way the Spider-Man movie is based in a real location, (New York) but we can't conclude that a man who shoots spider webs and flies in the air exists. Your false analogy would have weight only if the movie claims to be a TRUE life event. Why would you make such fallacy just to show your hatred towards the bible? But I don't expect much from folks who won't read the article but jump into conclusions that a donkey once talked simply because an inscription which contained a name was found. Well, the bolded is true but it is a strawman. The aim of the article was not to show proof of a talking donkey (which is a metaphysical event) but to show proof that a Biblical Character (who one would have time believing that he exist) has been confirmed by archaeology. It's only a brain dead mofo that'll believe a snake and donkey talked simply because a 2000 year old book said so. You’ll have to prove that all events must be explicable by scientific (empirical) method and must be tested true by it to make this claim. But you'll call these same archeologists liars when they show you 'alleged' bone fossils of Dinosaurs. Another error! Archaeologists have nothing to do with Dino fossils. Learn to get your facts straight. Sadly, some folks tend to discard Dino fossils but the main bone of contention is the uniformitarian ages that are assigned to them and any scientific alternative is severely persecuted
Your fallacy of false analogy baffles me. Let’s start with the first claim Certain stories/names in the bible were adapted from somewhere or events that actually happened. How can you prove this claim? Are we to believe you than the book (which many of it’s skeptical historical figures and locations are being confirmed) because you are omniscient? Same way the Spider-Man movie is based in a real location, (New York) but we can't conclude that a man who shoots spider webs and flies in the air exists. Your false analogy would have weight only if the movie claims to be a TRUE life event. Why would you make such fallacy just to show your hatred towards the bible? But I don't expect much from folks who won't read the article but jump into conclusions that a donkey once talked simply because an inscription which contained a name was found. Well, the bolded is true but it is a strawman. The aim of the article was not to show proof of a talking donkey (which is a metaphysical event) but to show proof that a Biblical Character (who one would have time believing that he exist) has been confirmed by archaeology. It's only a brain dead mofo that'll believe a snake and donkey talked simply because a 2000 year old book said so. You’ll have to prove that all events must be explicable by scientific (empirical) method and must be tested true by it to make this claim. But you'll call these same archeologists liars when they show you 'alleged' bone fossils of Dinosaurs. Another error! Archaeologists have nothing to do with Dino fossils. Learn to get your facts straight. Sadly, some folks tend to discard Dino fossils but the main bone of contention is the uniformitarian ages that are assigned to them and any scientific alternative is severely persecuted
You're correct. the story of Noah was adapted from the epic of Gilgamesh.
This is a serious claim. I reasoned that you believed this because someone said it and it probably agrees with your assumption that the Bible cannot be true. Have you studied other works by others who showed that your claim is found to be the other way round? What is one of the thing that differentiate a counterfeit (story) from the original? With many criteria set out, the Gilgamesh story failed massively when it is compared to that of the Bible. Again, what stops one from reasoning that both story descended from one original since that same event is found among folks that are geographically isolated in such a way that they cannot meet themselves to tell one another. The moment one starts with a wrong presupposition, then it would be easy to go down a slippery slope
The flood myth is one of such examples. This is the flood story according to the epic of Gilgamesh. The Babylonian/Mesopotamian story that is, the Sumerian one is slightly different, but the table is heavily fragmented. This is based on the nearly completed tables found.
Ea leaks the secret plan Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh a secret story that begins in the old city of Shuruppak on the banks of the Euphrates River. The "great gods" Anu, Enlil, Ninurta, Ennugi, and Ea were sworn to secrecy about their plan to cause the flood. But the god Ea (Sumerian god Enki) repeated the plan to Utnapishtim through a reed wall in a reed house. Ea commanded Utnapishtim to demolish his house and build a boat, regardless of the cost, to keep living beings alive. The boat must have equal dimensions with corresponding width and length and be covered over like Apsu boats. Utnapishtim promised to do what Ea commanded. He asked Ea what he should say to the city elders and the population. Ea tells him to say that Enlil has rejected him and he can no longer reside in the city or set foot in Enlil's territory. He should also say that he will go down to the Apsu "to live with my lord Ea". Note: 'Apsu' can refer to a fresh water marsh near the temple of Ea/Enki at the city of Eridu.
Building and launching the boat Carpenters, reed workers, and other people assembled one morning. [missing lines] Five days later, Utnapishtim laid out the exterior walls of the boat of 120 cubits. The sides of the superstructure had equal lengths of 120 cubits. He also made a drawing of the interior structure. The boat had six decks divided into seven and nine compartments. Water plugs were driven into the middle part. Punting poles and other necessary things were laid in. Three times 3,600 units of raw bitumen were melted in a kiln and three times 3,600 units of oil were used in addition to two times 3,600 units of oil that were stored in the boat. Oxen and sheep were slaughtered and ale, beer, oil, and wine were distributed to the workmen, like at a new year's festival. When the boat was finished, the launch was very difficult. A runway of poles was used to slide the boat into the water. Two-thirds of the boat was in the water. Utnapishtim loaded his silver and gold into the boat. He loaded "all the living beings that I had." His relatives and craftsmen, and "all the beasts and animals of the field" boarded the boat. The time arrived, as stated by the god Shamash, to seal the entry door.
The storm Early in the morning at dawn a black cloud arose from the horizon. The weather was frightful. Utnapishtim boarded the boat and entrusted the boat and its contents to his boatmaster Puzurammurri who sealed the entry. The thunder god Adad rumbled in the cloud and storm gods Shullar and Hanish went over mountains and land. Erragal pulled out the mooring poles and the dikes overflowed. The Annunnaki gods lit up the land with their lightning. There was stunned shock at Adad's deeds which turned everything to blackness. The land was shattered like a pot. All day long the south wind blew rapidly and the water overwhelmed the people like an attack. No one could see his fellows. They could not recognize each other in the torrent. The gods were frightened by the flood, and retreated up to the Anu heaven. They cowered like dogs lying by the outer wall. Ishtar shrieked like a woman in childbirth. The Mistress of the gods wailed that the old days had turned to clay because "I said evil things in the Assembly of the Gods, ordering a catastrophe to destroy my people who fill the sea like fish." The other gods were weeping with her and sat sobbing with grief, their lips burning, parched with thirst. The flood and wind lasted six days and six nights, flattening the land. On the seventh day, the storm was pounding [intermittently?] like a woman in labor.
Calm after the storm The sea calmed and the whirlwind and flood stopped. All day long there was quiet. All humans had turned to clay. The terrain was as flat as a roof top. Utnapishtim opened a window and felt fresh air on his face. He fell to his knees and sat weeping, tears streaming down his face. He looked for coastlines at the horizon and saw a region of land. The boat lodged firmly on mount Nimush which held the boat for several days, allowing no swaying. On the seventh day he released a dove that flew away, but came back to him. He released a swallow, but it also came back to him. He released a raven which was able to eat and scratch, and did not circle back to the boat. He then sent his livestock out in various directions.
The sacrifice
He sacrificed a sheep and offered incense at a mountainous ziggurat where he placed 14 sacrificial vessels and poured reeds, cedar, and myrtle into the fire. The gods smelled the sweet odor of the sacrificial animal and gathered like flies over the sacrifice. Then the great goddess arrived, lifted up her flies (beads), and said "Ye gods, as surely as I shall not forget this lapis lazuli [amulet] around my neck, I shall be mindful of these days and never forget them! The gods may come to the sacrificial offering. But Enlil may not come, because he brought about the flood and annihilated my people without considering [the consequences]." When Enlil arrived, he saw the boat and became furious at the Igigi gods. He said "Where did a living being escape? No man was to survive the annihilation!" Ninurta spoke to Enlil saying "Who else but Ea could do such a thing? It is Ea who knew all of our plans." Ea spoke to Enlil saying "It was you, the Sage of the Gods. How could you bring about a flood without consideration?" Ea then accuses Enlil of sending a disproportionate punishment, and reminds him of the need for compassion. Ea denies leaking the god's secret plan to Atrahasis (= Utnapishtim), admitting only sending him a dream and deflecting Enlil's attention to the flood hero.
The flood hero and his wife are granted immortality and transported far away
Enlil then boards a boat and grasping Utnapishtim's hand, helps him and his wife aboard where they kneel. Standing between Utnapishtim and his wife, he touches their foreheads and blesses them. "Formerly Utnapishtim was a human being, but now he and his wife have become gods like us. Let Utnapishtim reside far away, at the mouth of the rivers." Utnapishtim and his wife are transported and settled at the "mouth of the rivers".
The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him. (Prov 18:17)
I would love that you check this other side of the debate (hopefully with a clear mind) by reading the work of Naomi Osanai here https://creation.com/article/4075/ It was her master's thesis and it is titled "A comparative study of the flood accounts in the Gilgamesh Epic and Genesis"
For example, DeusExMachina above me has already given a rundown on The Epic of Gilgamesh(Sumerian flood myth). It is far older than the Bible.(In fact the expert opinion is that the Bible's version was based on it. But yet do you believe the version of events that you read there?
I am more interested in this paragraph. (though you misrepresented his argument in my opinion. His claims (I believe) was that the Biblical narratives can be taken to be true since it time between events and recording is comparatively small but you seem to set up a strawman which both of you have been dealing with) One thing should be known. Evidence don't interpret themselves, men interpret evidence according to a certain presupposition. That the Sumerian version is older does not prove that the Bible plagiarized it. This can be deduced from the fact that the flood story is found in almost all parts of the world (China, Latin America, etc) that are geographically isolated. I wouldn't want to impose my view but I would love that you read the work of someone who has shown that the view presented by the mainstream media cannot be relied upon
The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him. (Prov 18:17)
I would love that you check this other side of the debate (hopefully with a clear mind) by reading the work of Naomi Osanai here https://creation.com/article/4075/ It was her master's thesis and it is titled "A comparative study of the flood accounts in the Gilgamesh Epic and Genesis"
This certifies your clownship. You don't judge a book by its cover. i have consistently referred you to the OP(original post or opening post), not to thread title. You can make anything as thread title, even your name. But what the OP talks about is the possible proof of Balaam's existence because some people 2800years ago write of him as existing. Something along that line. There was no attempt to prove or show that his donkey talked. Thanks be to God, the joker is starting to differentiate between plural and singular. Well let's not rejoice yet, but still in everything thank God for you.
Logic is hard to come by from many wannabe atheists most times. How the guy set up a strawman from the post is what I can't explain Repeating old canards of flying spaghetti or sky daddy is becoming his anthem. Folks like him take issue with miraculous events that were recorded in the scripture of which I have been asking them to prove that miracles never existed and don't exist. That is where they mostly end the discussion
In history or even when talking about factual events in general, its not about believing. Your belief has no impact on history.
Julius Caesar and Aristotle existed and I provided you reference to books written by themselves in their time. So, its not about believing.
On the contrary, there's no HISTORICAL proof that Jesus, Moses, Noah and Adam ever existed. You'll never be able to provide proof that Jesus, Moses, Noah and Adam was a real person outside of your bible. These characters only exist as a story in the bible, just like fantasy in any other work of literature. These are not my words, rather Jewish scholars themselves said so.
Jewish Researchers: There's no evidence for Noah, Abraham, Moses, Isaac, ETC.
This must be a mistake I believe. That there is no historical proof for Jesus? Then most attested historical figures such as Alexander the Great and others should be discarded
Samuel, you registered your nairaland account in 2017. That is almost 10years after i registered mine. Do you think at all before you talk? If you quit nairaland or the world itself, you quit for yourself. Don't overrate yourself. Take correction and become matured. You're getting older.
hasty Conclusions are not good.How do you know that his current moniker was his first?.
Mythology is not history, rather its an ancient story used to explain abstract concepts. Example; you read in your bible of snake talking to Eve or donkey talking to Balaam or Satan talking to Job. But that's the way ancient people wrote. It does not mean there was a real snake or real Eve or real donkey or real Balaam or real Job or real Satan. Its just mythology meant to teach something. Unfortunately, Europeans misinterpreted them as literal in your bible, so that the message the ancient people were trying to pass has been lost in religious dogmatism.
In African mythology, you hear of the wise tortoise who always outsmart other people or other animals to marry a kings daughter or to win some awards. It does not mean there was ever a wise tortoise or a king or a daughter to be married. Its mythology meant to explain abstract concepts. Again, that's the way ancient people wrote.
The problem is that you Christians have refused to grow up, so you believe your bible mythology is history. The white man has actually convinced you in the bible that a tortoise married a human being!. Its like an African believing there was a smart tortoise that married a kings daughter in ancient time. That's how childish and dumb it is to believe in most bible stories.
@kingxsamz never told you that Julius Caesar or Aristotle existed or not. He simply told you the truth that he doesn't know. But it doesn't change the history because as I said in my previous post, your belief has no impact on history.
The books by both Julius Caesar and Aristotle were written by themselves, not what people wrote about them. Julius Caesar wrote his Gallic wars after returning from war. Aristotle wrote most of his books in Egypt after Alexander the so called great invaded Egypt and brought in Greek settlers. You can't say that of anybody in the bible; expect Paul. However, researchers say Paul wrote just about 5 or 6 books. The only epistles that bible scholars consider authentic are Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon. The rest of so called letters by Paul are letters manufactured by the Roman empire in the name of Paul to impress upon the early Christians to obey certain rules.
Moses did not write Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. Researchers say the books were written over thousands of years by so many authors. Example; Moses died in the book of Exodus when the bible god said he won't get to the promised land but miraculously he wrote Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy after he died. How come?
Don't believe. Research it. The age of BELIEVING is gone. We're in the age of KNOWING.
Like i have stated, you make a good comedian. Myths involve popular belief or tradition usually historical events. Some people believe them to be true. Some people believe and worship those Greek gods, they believe the stories literally. What is myth to you is another person's belief so stop twisting and turning like a snake.
i'm not aware of people literally believing the short bedtime or moonlight African tales you refer to. Even the tellers don't say they are real, those are children stories. Not history of any kind.
BTW, your coward friend does not believe Caesars and Aristotle exist because admitting to believing that makes him look more foolish than he already does. Of course, Aristotle wrote his books in your bedroom and in your presence, while your grandad wrote Moses own that day you came back from school. How could i forget so soon.
Mr Researcher, you can believe what you know. They are not mutually exclusive actions.
musicwriter: For anybody who wants to set themselves free, the man below was born into a Christian family, in fact, in a church. Both his father and mother are pastors. But when he grew up he decided to research Christianity after he saw an online post like this. Watch below how he freed his mind. Its in episodes of up to 20 videos. Watch from 1.0 to 2.6.
A fallacy as expected. Many people get converted every day. Being born a Christian or Hindu is not a big deal. People are converted or changed to different religions every day regardless of what or where they were born. The video says nothing too. All i see was a guy who WAS sincere about christianity since he was born into it. One can be sincerely wrong. Maybe he was born again, fair. Though the "testimony" misses the major ingredients of a past sinner life, a genuine conviction, and the change that followed. The baptism testimony is even more shallow. He got a wrong spirit not the Holy Spirit. He doesn't know common meaning of intercessory prayer despite been born inside church. Doesn't know the meaning of omniscience. Just unfortunately too ignorant.
