Kobojunkie:
Judas did not sin against the Holy Spirit, and there was nothing to indicate his sin was unforgivable. His sin was against the person of Jesus Christ. Judas had ample time to seek forgiveness from God in the time after His betrayal. And we all know that God will always forgive our sins and remember them no more.

Also, there is no indication that God was responsible for his death.

true

But would you say to those who believe in automatic forgiveness

CrazyMan:

For forgiveness to occur, you must ask for it. Peter asked God for forgiveness when he denined Jesus. Judas on the other hand didn't I'm sure that if he did, God would have forgiven him.

He died a sinner

I doubt if God forgives those who sell their salvation for money. Do they even ask God for forgiveness.

Balaam for money went the wrong way
Esau sold his birthright in fact even if or when he went for it he didn't get it back
Who else, then Judas. Isn't that a pattern

BlueAngel444:


Good point
Your answer is Jesus didn't forgive Judas because Judas had worldly sorrow and regret

He didn't show repentance to God!

A Friend offend you but meet with your enemy to confess is wrong doing.
Does that make any sense or show true repentance?

AntiChristian:



See another one! If a father sheds the blood of his beloved son, is that one a good father

Part 1
THE GREAT GOODNESS OF THE FATHER IS SEEN IN THE FACT that the Father was very very Angry with certain of His children, WHO GREATLY OFFENDED HIM AND EVEN AFTER HE TOLD THEM AND SHOWED THEM HOW THEY HAVE OFFENDED HIM, AND THAT THEY WILL NOT LIKE IT NOR ACCEPT IT, IF THAT SAME OFFENCE IS DONE TO THEM.

NOW, Instead of those Offending children to say that they understand that what they do was Wrong and that they were sorry for doing it, and that they would not do it (what is called Repentance), those crazy children said that the Father Should do His worst (as Nigerians would say).

To you-
If your phone offends you would you wait?(remember you created it). Oya lie make we see you, common your neighbour or houseboy wey you no create, see how you dey destroy them when they offend you! Yet you would think yourself good. Women, you know you are already disqualified here.

Oya men, your employees and servants wey una no create nko? Una no dey sleep with the girls wey dey work for una, just because she dey serve una? Oya lie, and when those girls no gree give una, (offence don come be that), una no give the girl, your own version of lake of Fire? Oya lie! Men, don fall be dat.

Shey una see una life? God wey create us, no do any of these things.

Abeg, let me continue with He Who is Greatly Gooder than All of una joor.

Part 2
And the Father Told these Stupid Children Again and Again, "That if I should look upon your offences, I would hotly deal with you and there is no one who can stop Me".

But the Foolish children said, again "Do your worst" and they did not listen to Him! They even laughed at Him, and because He was Watching them and hoping that they would see that they are being foolish, the Foolish children then Started Insulting and Mocking Him.

If your phone insult you, shall you be patient?

After all these Insults, The Father looked at His Cherished Son and Discussed the Problem with Him. The Son now said He would come and talk to us and to show us that He was from God, He came to do all those things which we feel and know that a God can do, that is, the world of Impossibilities known to us being broken, including the mighty death we fear.

Thereby, showing us that Death is his servant.

And the Son also came with another purpose, to be a Holy Gift of A Lamb for a Sin Offering, in accordance with the Law of Cleansing from Sins, for those children who do not want God's Anger Poured on them because they have offended Him.

SO, HOW HAS THE FATHER BEEN GREATLY GOOD, IT IS SEEN IN THAT HE WAS

1) Patient With Inconsequentials Who Offended Him.
2) Witheld Their Punishment And allowed them.
3) While Still Holding Their Punishment In Abeyance, He Sent High Emissaries to Counsel Them.
4) He Still Gave them A way, as we say, Clues or Hints, so that they can still escape His Impending Great Anger.

THIS IS THE CASE OF A GOOD FATHER AND A FAITHFULL SON WORKING TOGETHER TO SAVE OTHER OFFENDING AND OFFENSIVE LOW QUALITY CHILDREN, FROM VEXATION AND HARM AND DANGER!

IF THIS IS NOT GOOD, THEN YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOOD!

BlueAngel444:
I doubt if God forgives those who sell their salvation for money. Do they even ask God for forgiveness.

Balaam for money went the wrong way
Esau sold his birthright in fact even if or when he went for it he didn't get it back
Who else, then Judas. Isn't that a pattern

I don't think its wise to compare Judas to Easu and Balaam.

Easu and Balaam didn't have the previlage Judas had by hearing the gospel of salvation from Jesus himself. Judas was literally present in all Jesus teachings because he was his treasurer so his presence was always needed. He saw the miracles Jesus did. He heard the parable of the prodigal son and knew that God is ever willing to accept you back if only you can acknowledged your sins and come back, he saw Jesus show mercy to the woman with the issue of blood who touched him without his consent.

So I believe it's safe to say that he (Judas) was in a much better position to ask God for mercy...but he didn't. Instead he tried to physically reverse his actions by going back to the temple not knowing that the power to have Jesus killed didn't reside in the hands of man but God through man.

Look at Peter...his denial was almost similar to Judas betrayal...but he understood his position in Christ and came back, he knew that despite his errors as long as he pleads for mercy Jesus would accept him back. Look at Thomas when he refused to believe that Jesus has risen asked for mercy, look at the thief on the cross, he asked for mercy. He might have been a murderer, a rapist, a kidnapper...etc. So why didn't Judas do so.

Truth is Jesus wouldn't have denied him salvation if he asked for mercy.

BlueAngel444:
true

But would you say to those who believe in automatic forgiveness

Automatic forgiveness? I don't know about that one.

CrazyMan:

I don't think its wise to compare Judas to Easu and Balaam.

Easu and Balaam didn't have the previlage Judas had by hearing the gospel of salvation from Jesus himself. Judas was literally present in all Jesus teachings because he was his treasurer so his presence was always needed. He saw the miracles Jesus did. He heard the parable of the prodigal son and knew that God is ever willing to accept you back if only you can acknowledged your sins and come back, he saw Jesus show mercy to the woman with the issue of blood who touched him without his consent.

So I believe it's safe to say that he (Judas) was in a much better position to ask God for mercy...but he didn't. Instead he tried to physically reverse his actions by going back to the temple not knowing that the power to have Jesus killed didn't reside in the hands of man but God through man.

Look at Peter...his denial was almost similar to Judas betrayal...but he understood his position in Christ and came back, he knew that despite his errors as long as he pleads for mercy Jesus would accept him back. Look at Thomas when he refused to believe that Jesus has risen asked for mercy, look at the thief on the cross, he asked for mercy. He might have been a murderer, a rapist, a kidnapper...etc. So why didn't Judas do so.

Truth is Jesus wouldn't have denied him salvation if he asked for mercy.

Firstly Judas heard those message but did he believe them?
Judas tried to undo what he had done, give them back the money and ask for his "friend", when he found out they were going to kill him he killed himself, maybe he couldn't live with himself or he didn't believe that Jesus would forgive him.

What Peter did would not lay as much guilt on him as it did Judas. Didn't the disciples flee and abandon Jesus. Judas felt the weight of his actions heavily on his heart.

Did peter really know his place. Peter went back fishing, Peter couldn't answer confidently anymore if he loved Jesus, and would do anything for him.

The theif at the cross had more faith than the disciples in a dying man. "The theif" had an usually and almost impossible faith and believe in Jesus whom he was watching die infront of him.

Did Peter still believe in a suffering Christ much less one that died.





The answer is Jesus already forgave Peter but Judas was already condemned. It's in the bible.

Kobojunkie:
Automatic forgiveness? I don't know about that one.

all sins are already forgiven

AntiChristian:
No forgiveness needed na! Since the biblical Jesus was sent to die...

Didn't he die for Judas' sin too? Jesus made no mistake in choosing Judas as one of his disciples. Judas was a Christian too infact one of the greatest disciples of Jesus. Cos without him Jesus' blood won't have been shed. And the theory of vicarious atonement would be incomplete!

The father loves blood especially his son's!

You've come again disgracing yourself and the whole Islam here. Shey na your Alfa, imam or sheikh that are meant to brainwash you tell you say JUDAS WAS A CHRISTIAN ?

BlueAngel444:
Firstly Judas heard those message but did he believe them?

This I think should answer your question...the Bible referred to him (Judas) as a thief when he frowned at the woman who poured an expensive oil on Jesus feet.

He didn't believe Jesus messages that's why even when Jesus openly told him in front of the disciplies that he would betray him he left and it was recorded that Satan entered him.

BlueAngel444:
Judas tried to undo what he had done, give them back the money and ask for his "friend", when he found out they were going to kill him he killed himself, maybe he couldn't live with himself or he didn't believe that Jesus would forgive him.

You're right to some extent.

Truth is Judas never believed that Jesus can be killed by a human being. His main intention was to scam the pharasees. He saw Jesus bring back a dead man to life, he saw him cast out devil's...etc. he felt that Jesus was too powerful to be overpowered by mere mortals; and remember the Bible had already called him a thief so despite the fact that he loved his master he felt that using him (Jesus) to make some money wouldn't be so bad since he's is invincible.

That's why he tried to retrace his footsteps when it dawned on him that Jesus was on his way to the slaughter house. But his approach was wrong.

BlueAngel444:
What Peter did would not lay as much guilt on him as it did Judas. Didn't the disciples flee and abandon Jesus. Judas felt the weight of his actions heavily on his heart.

Peter's case was different...his denial wasn't recorded in the old testament... Jesus used it to silence him for interrupting him (see Matthew 24:32-34) Peter was always trying to show his love for Jesus by forming political loyalty Jesus replied him that way to tell him that the loyalty of man, the love of man, the promises of man is nothing compared to God's promises. Imagine if Jesus trusted Peter's words on how he'll buy swords and arm himself to defend him.

Peter's denial was a deep message that every true believer should understand. Never believe the words of man. Cos circumstances can make him change overnight.

It's also wrong to criticize the disciplies for running away...they weren't spiritually matured and did what they felt was right to them. A quick look from the books of Acts downwards would show the exploits most of them were able to accomplish for Jesus.

BlueAngel444:
Did peter really know his place. Peter went back fishing, Peter couldn't answer confidently anymore if he loved Jesus, and would do anything for him.

Peter was still an apprentice so after his master died the best thing was to go back to his former trade...it's very understandable.

When Jesus went back to heaven did Peter go back to fishing...No why? Because he was no longer a apprentice, he had been tasked with great responsibility.

So it won't be fair to judge his (Peter) actions

And yes he loved Jesus.

BlueAngel444:
The theif at the cross had more faith than the disciples in a dying man. "The theif" had an usually and almost impossible faith and believe in Jesus whom he was watching die infront of him.

Truth is a dying man believes anything he feel might change his situation it's not faith. Some years back some Nigerians were hanged in Indonesia for drugs, I was opportuned to watch the clip of their brutal hanging...they were singing songs of praise even up till the point of their deaths. Would you call that faith?

They were dying and needed all the comfort they could get

BlueAngel444:

Did Peter still believe in a suffering Christ much less one that died.
The answer is Jesus already forgave Peter but Judas was already condemned. It's in the bible.

Wrong the Bible only mentioned that one of the twelve would betray Jesus it didn't say Judas. Judas greed was what made him conspire with the Jewish leaders to betray Jesus.

Peter's case was different.

CrazyMan:

This I think should answer your question...the Bible referred to him (Judas) as a thief when he frowned at the woman who poured an expensive oil on Jesus feet.

He didn't believe Jesus messages that's why even when Jesus openly told him in front of the disciplies that he would betray him he left and it was recorded that Satan entered him.


You're right to some extent.

Truth is Judas never believed that Jesus can be killed by a human being. His main intention was to scam the pharasees. He saw Jesus bring back a dead man to life, he saw him cast out devil's...etc. he felt that Jesus was too powerful to be overpowered by mere mortals; and remember the Bible had already called him a thief so despite the fact that he loved his master he felt that using him (Jesus) to make some money wouldn't be so bad since he's is invincible.

Balaam also wanted to make some money. Their are people like that who use the word of God to make money I doubt any of them escape God's judgement

That's why he tried to retrace his footsteps when it dawned on him that Jesus was on his way to the slaughter house. But his approach was wrong.


Peter's case was different...his denial wasn't recorded in the old testament... Jesus used it to silence him for interrupting him (see Matthew 24:32-34) Peter was always trying to show his love for Jesus by forming political loyalty Jesus replied him that way to tell him that the loyalty of man, the love of man, the promises of man is nothing compared to God's promises. Imagine if Jesus trusted Peter's words on how he'll buy swords and arm himself to defend him.

Peter's denial was a deep message that every true believer should understand. Never believe the words of man. Cos circumstances can make him change overnight.

lol @ bolded. So true

It's also wrong to criticize the disciplies for running away...they weren't spiritually matured and did what they felt was right to them. A quick look from the books of Acts downwards would show the exploits most of them were able to accomplish for Jesus.



Peter was still an apprentice so after his master died the best thing was to go back to his former trade...it's very understandable.

When Jesus went back to heaven did Peter go back to fishing...No why? Because he was no longer a apprentice, he had been tasked with great responsibility.

So it won't be fair to judge his (Peter) actions

And yes he loved Jesus.

it's not that I criticize them, I only wrote what they did which Jesus also said they would do. If you believe in someone would run away from them when they face trails, apprentice or not. We could say after Jesus rose, they had real faith in him.

Truth is a dying man believes anything he feel might change his situation it's not faith. Some years back some Nigerians were hanged in Indonesia for drugs, I was opportuned to watch the clip of their brutal hanging...they were singing songs of praise even up till the point of their deaths. Would you call that faith?

They were dying and needed all the comfort they could get

ya but he wasn't the only one dying and most of the people around were mocking Jesus. Would you believe a man condemned by the authorities much less sing his praise?
It's sad that you think he only believed in Jesus because he was dying.

Wrong the Bible only mentioned that one of the twelve would betray Jesus it didn't say Judas. Judas greed was what made him conspire with the Jewish leaders to betray Jesus.

Peter's case was different.

you agree Judas didn't not believe and those who don't believe are condemned already. Judas was the only one from the tribe of Judah like Jesus was, his selection was not a mini mani mo

BlueAngel444:
all sins are already forgiven

At the point of Salvation, yes, but not afterwards.

Remember the Lord's Prayer? "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those.... ". Asking for forgiveness of sins is meant to be a part of our daily lives even.

AntiChristian:



See another one! If a father sheds the blood of his beloved son, is that one a good father?

Allah that allowed his beloved Muhammad to have his aorta cut and die of poison and to lie down unburied for three days is that a good god?