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A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Nobody: 2:45pm On Mar 14, 2011
The Adulterous Church

V.18-29: And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write : The Son of God who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this : ‘I know your deeds and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first. But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bondservants astray, so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent; and she does not want to repent of her immorality. Behold I will cast her upon a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. And I will kill her children with pestilence; and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call them - I place no other burden on you. Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come. And he who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end to him I will give authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also received authority from My Father; and I will give him the morning star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”


This compromise in the church had come about mainly because the messenger had permitted a woman (symbolically called “Jezebel”) to influence the church in an evil, worldly way (v.20). She had pretended to be a prophetess, and the messenger of the church had been deceived.
Although Christ has given prophets to the church, He has not given any prophetesses (See Eph.4:11,12). Women can be anointed by the Spirit to prophesy in the meetings of the church (Acts 2:17; 1 Cor.11:5).The daughters of Philip are examples of those who did that (Acts 21:9 - KJV).

Men and women can prophesy - that is, share God’s Word to the encouragement and edification of the church (1 Cor.14:3). All believers are encourage to seek for this gift (1 Cor.14:1; Acts 2:18). But there is a difference between one who prophesies and a prophet. The Lord never appointed a woman to be a prophetess. under the new covenant - the reason being that God never intended a woman to have authority over men.
There were prophetesses under the old covenant. We read of five of them in the Bible, with Anna being the last (Lk.2:36). They all spoke the word of the Lord with authority. Deborah is one example of such a prophetess (Judg.4). But under the new covenant, authority in the church is always invested by the Lord in men.

Paul gives us two reasons why God does not allow a woman to exercise any authority over men in the church: (i) She was created after man - to be his helper; (ii) She was deceived by Satan first (1 Tim.2:12-14).

A woman is more prone to deception by Satan than a man is. This is one reason why Christ has not set any women-teachers in the church either.

Jezebel however called herself a prophetess. And the messenger of the church at Thyatira was so weak and spineless that he could not silence her.
In a home, if the man who should be the head of the house, is weak and effeminate, his wife will take over the leadership of the home. This will be true in a church too. When powerful women see that the elders in a church are weak, they will begin to assert themselves in the church.

God’s Word exhorts us to “act like MEN” (1 Cor.16:13). There is a great need for that exhortation, for many elders today have just about as much backbone as a jellyfish, when it comes to silencing powerful women! They are like King Ahab who was so scared of his wife Jezebel, that he allowed her to do whatever she liked in his kingdom - even to the extent of murdering innocent, Godfearing people (1 Kings 21). Ahab was the head of Israel only in name. Jezebel actually ran the kingdom. Many church-elders function exactly like Ahab too!

Elijah however was a fearless man of God who stood against all of Jezebel’s false prophets and slaughtered every last one of them (1 Kings18:40). That’s why Jezebel hated Elijah. And she feared him too. There were 7000 people in Israel at that time who did not bow down to Jezebel’s idols. God Himself had said so (1 Kings 19:18). But Jezebel never feared any of them. She feared only Elijah. She knew that those 7000 were scared of her, even if they didn’t bow down to her idols.

A Jezebel today does not fear 99.9% of believers, because she knows that those believers cannot stop her, even if they don’t agree with her. Jezebels fear only Elijahs. And Elijahs are rare in Christendom today.
Today’s Jezebels hate Elijah-like elders and love Ahab-like elders. Every elder of every church follows either Elijah or Ahab in this matter.

The Wife Of The Elder

The Greek word translated as “woman” here can also be translated as “wife”. This would mean that Jezebel was the wife of the messenger of the church. This would certainly have made the situation more difficult for the messenger.
If the messenger had been a true disciple of the Lord and had learnt to “hate” his wife (as Jesus had told His disciples to do - Luke 14:26), there would have been no problem at all. But he obviously loved his wife more than he loved the Lord and the church. And so he did not want to offend her. And so he let her have her way in the church. That was how the church at Thyatira was corrupted. And that is how many churches are corrupted today.

Many a church has been ruined by a Jezebel, who is often the wife of one of the weak, effeminate elders. A woman like that can seek to make herself prominent in the meetings of the church through frequent speaking in tongues, or through interpreting her own “tongues”, or through long prayers or in other crude, unBiblical ways. She may also seek to change the decisions of the elders by influencing her husband at home.
There are foolish elders who, after having discussed church matters at the elders’ meeting, then go home and discuss these matters with their wives. Then being brainwashed at home by their wives, these effeminate men express their changed views at the next meeting of the elders!! And the decisions that were taken in the previous meeting are then changed!! Such is the power of a hidden Jezebel to influence a church!
In other cases, the Jezebel could be a woman who has acquired influence over one of the elders in some soulish way. There are some elders’ wives who have such powerful personalities and such soul-power that the other men in the church (including the elders) are afraid to displease her in any way. In some cases, even her own husband is frightened of her.

It will be impossible to build the body of Christ in any place, if the elders in the church there, allow a woman to have power over them in any way.
The wife of an elder must be an example as one with “a meek and a quiet spirit”, taking extra care to hide herself at all times. She must not be an Assistant Pastor or Songleader or Assistant Administrator (as many women are), but a hidden helper to her husband and not one who seeks to run the church from behind the scenes. Praise God that there are such wives too, who are real helpers to their elder-husbands, because they recognise their boundaries as women. Blessed is the elder who has such a wife.

All elders must keep a special eye on any woman who seeks to be prominent in the church in any way. She will almost certainly have the spirit of a Jezebel. If she is allowed free rein, she will certainly become Satan’s agent to destroy the church slowly but surely.
The “adultery” spoken of here (v.20) is obviously spiritual - because a righteous God cannot possibly punish innocent children born of physical adultery. Spiritual adultery is more dangerous than physical adultery, because it is less recognized. Religious harlotry results from the teaching of false grace that leads believers to take sin lightly. Disobedience to God in small things and little unfaithfulnesses are glossed over. It is such teaching that builds Babylon, the harlot church. And this is what the Lord denounces here.

Time To Repent
The Lord gave Jezebel time to repent (v.21). Even Jezebels are given time to repent. Such is God’s mercy.
But God also placed a time limit for her to repent. If she did not repent within that time, she would be judged. Not only Jezebel, but all those who committed adultery with her, and her children (v.22,23) would also be killed. God’s patience with sinners and hypocrites is not endless.
Jezebel’s partners in spiritual adultery were those who propagated this false teaching along with her. Her “children” were those half-converted hybrids who were the products of this teaching of false grace, who imagined that they were converted without having repented from sin first, or who imagined that now that they were “converted” they could take fleshly indulgence lightly.

People who live in sin in the world are not judged so quickly by God. But those who come into the church and treat sin lightly are dealt with more severely and more quickly.

God’s judgment of Ananias and Sapphira and of those who sinned in Corinth (1 Cor.11:29,30). are examples of the severity of God towards those who take the name of Christ lightly.

The Lord goes on to say that He will give to each one according to his deeds (v.23). This is to counter the teaching of false grace in Thyatira that taught that “our deeds won’t matter if we just believe”. Our deeds do matter.
God’s Word says, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad” (2 Cor.5:10). “If you are living according to the flesh, you MUST die” (Rom.8:13).


http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/book_window.php?book=the_final_triumph
Re: A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Joagbaje(m): 4:43pm On Mar 14, 2011
Pls don't mis interpret the bible.
Re: A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Nobody: 4:49pm On Mar 14, 2011
^
Dear brother, please read the bible

thanks
Re: A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Joagbaje(m): 5:03pm On Mar 14, 2011
In christ there is no male or female. The issue if gender and sex is in the home.

God never said a woman can't be a prophetess. He use women as much as he use men. If he could break protocols even when women were sidelined in the Old testament when women were not recognised.Holy spirt still broke protocols by coming upon certain women as judges and prophetess. How much more now when the holy spirit has broken the gender barrier.


Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Re: A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Azibalua(f): 5:36pm On Mar 14, 2011
The wife of an elder must be an example as one with “a meek and a quiet spirit”, taking extra care to hide herself at all times. She must not be an Assistant Pastor or Songleader or Assistant Administrator (as many women are), but a hidden helper to her husband and not one who seeks to run the church from behind the scenes. Praise God that there are such wives too, who are real helpers to their elder-husbands, because they recognise their boundaries as women. Blessed is the elder who has such a wife.

Hmmmmm
Chapter what verse what
Re: A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Nobody: 5:49pm On Mar 14, 2011
^^




1 Corinthians 14:33-35 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34 Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

1 Timothy 5:10 having a reputation for good works; and if she has brought up children, if she has shown hospitality to strangers, if she has washed the saints’ feet, if she has assisted those in distress, and if she has devoted herself to every good work.

Titus 2:3-5 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips, nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, 4 that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be dishonored.


Also in 1 Timothy 2:11-13 God’s word to us says, "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence For Adam was first formed, then Eve."


BUT WE ALL AGREE THAT WOMEN AND MEN in GOD's SIGHT ARE CO-HEIRS, The BIBLE ONLY Teaches that they have different responsibilities and for some reason also, differing roles in the church.

So before someone derails this thread, I agree that WOMEN and MEN are EQUAL in God's sight.


Excerpt from bible.org

'We must also recall what women did not do to minister when they accompanied our Lord. Our Lord did not choose women to be among the 12 apostles. He did not send women to teach, preach or heal. So far as we know He did not invite women to the Lord’s Supper in Matthew 26:20. When the great commission was given in Matthew 28:16-20, it was given to men. In brief, women did minister to our Lord and with our Lord, but never in a capacity of leadership or of authority such as teaching or preaching.'


'Conclusion
According to the New Testament women cannot be leaders in the church, but they can help their husbands lead. Women should concentrate their efforts in the sphere of the home, and they should concentrate in the areas of ministry and service to others. Fulfillment is knowing your assigned role and then doing it to the glory of God. May God raise up godly women who will minister to and through their husbands, young women who will minister to those in need, older women who will minister to younger women, teaching them to be godly women and wives and mothers.'
Re: A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Jenwitemi(m): 6:28pm On Mar 14, 2011
Hahaha! cheesy It is just priceless to watch you guys beat each on the head with the bible to show each other personal and deep-seated prejudices. Pure gold.
Re: A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Nobody: 6:36pm On Mar 14, 2011
^
Funny you said that, cos these are not personal opinions but biblical facts
Re: A Woman's Place In The Church And The Weak Church Elder / Husband by Jenwitemi(m): 8:44pm On Mar 14, 2011
They are nothing more than personal interpretations of scriptural texts which, by their scriptural nature, are totally ambiguous in their true messages. So anyone can read anything into them depending on the preconceived notions carried. That is the FACT.
frosbel:

^
Funny you said that, cos these are not personal opinions but biblical facts

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