XXXXTENTACION:
Well we are all sinners nobody is totally holy or pure but the idea of favouring some people over others sounds adsurd to me. Why would you send some people to heven while others are sent to hell when everybody is pretty much thesame.

Are you even serious with this?

Jesus Christ was clear to those who would believe in Him about what the deal was. - They become His own once they choose to believe in Him. These people knew what the deal was when they signed up. The particulars of the deal were made clear about 2000 years ago. It states clearly that all those who sign the deal will receive the bonus gift of Eternal life; The signees who went on to obey His commandments as stipulated in the agreement would end up in Heaven whereas those signees who refused to obey would end up in Hell.

livingchrist:
Although Jesus died for the sins of the whole world each and every person need to either accept the gift or reject it, remember love cannot be forced.

Well a gift can be returned. But it would be illogical to punish someone for refusing your gift.


if you truly you have free will then you can either accept or reject the gift without repercussions.

Righteousness89:


Call it whatever you wish to call!
What Matters is that it is Real!
What Matters is that you Have a chance right to make your way Right with God.

Like I always says! We all Must Miss one! Whether u Believe or your Don't believe has nothing to do with it.

If you Miss Heaven! You Cannot Miss Hell!

I Better be Manipulated to Repentance and Make Heaven than to be Wise in my own eyes and go to Hell!

You don't seem to get the point

Kobojunkiee:
Are you even serious with this?

Jesus Christ was clear to those who would believe in Him about what the deal was. - They become His own once they choose to believe in Him. These people knew what the deal was when they signed up. The particulars of the deal were made clear about 2000 years ago. It states clearly that all those who sign the deal will receive the bonus gift of Eternal life; The signees who went on to obey His commandments as stipulated in the agreement would end up in Heaven whereas those signees who refused to obey would end up in Hell.

judging by this standards then everybody deserves to go to hell.



after all everyone at certain times have commited one form of evil or the other. From the high to low we have at one time done some ungodly stuff and judging by biblical standards nothing unclean will enter the kingdom of God.



logically it then means we are all going to hell.

XXXXTENTACION:
judging by this standards then everybody deserves to go to hell.

And what standard would that be?

XXXXTENTACION:
after all everyone at certain times have commited one form of evil or the other. From the high to low we have at one time done some ungodly stuff and judging by biblical standards nothing unclean will enter the kingdom of God.
logically it then means we are all going to hell.

I don't think you possess any logical bone in you as far as this discussion is concerned. First, you attempt to debate this from a point of complete ignorance of the belief itself. Then, you insert yourself as judge over that which you do not understand. What do you intend to achieve?

Please pick up a copy of the Bible (I recommend the Easy-to-Read translation) and spend some time reading up about this belief system so you can gain a better understanding of what it is about, who is in and who is not, and learn a lot about who Heaven and Hell are really intended for. Then you can come back with better questions and assertions.

XXXXTENTACION:
Well a gift can be returned. But it would be illogical to punish someone for refusing your gift.


if you truly you have free will then you can either accept or reject the gift without repercussions.

If you were given a life Jacket to save you from drowning but refused to wear it, will it still save you from drowning?

You are not being punished for refusing the gift but rather pay for it yourself.

livingchrist:
If you were given a life Jacket to save you from drowning but refused to wear it, will it still save you from drowning?
You are not being punished for refusing the gift but rather pay for it yourself.

What makes you think everyone wants to be saved from "drowning"? Obviously, not everyone does and so there is nothing for those who chose not to, to pay for.

XXXXTENTACION:
Well a gift can be returned. But it would be illogical to punish someone for refusing your gift.
if you truly you have free will then you can either accept or reject the gift without repercussions.

Jesus Christ did not come to condemn anyone. He came for those who desire to be saved. So if you refuse His gift, there are no repercussions... and He made this very clear.

Kobojunkiee:
Jesus Christ did not come to condemn anyone. He came for those who desire to be saved. So if you refuse His gift, there are no repercussions... and He made this very clear.

Well according to christian teachings if you refuse the gift of Jesus christ you will burn and suffer in hell fire

XXXXTENTACION:
Well according to christian teachings if you refuse the gift of Jesus christ you will burn and suffer in hell fire

Here's an opportunity for you to show what you really know of the Christian belief. Where in the Bible is it written that if you refuse the gift of Jesus Christ, you will burn and suffer in hellfire?

livingchrist:
If you were given a life Jacket to save you from drowning but refused to wear it, will it still save you from drowning?

You are not being punished for refusing the gift but rather pay for it yourself.

If a person refuses the life jacket that is not a guaranttee to drowning. If the person is a skilled swimmer then drowning would not be easy.

Kobojunkiee:
Here's an opportunity for you to show what you really know of the Christian belief. Where in the Bible is it written that if you refuse the gift of Jesus Christ, you will burn and suffer in hellfire?

Forgotten the verse but it goes this way "for the wages of sin is death"

and then in revelations it says something like this "satan and his followers will be cast into a lake of burning fire "

and then in one of the gospels were jesus told the parable of a rich man vs a poor man(lazarus). The poor man dies and goes to dine with father Abraham in heaven while the rich man dies and goes to hell in the parable the rich man begs Abraham to allow Lazarus to give him a drop of water.


these verses may not directly mention hell but they provide hints to the existence of a hell-like place.

as a staunch christian i expect you to be able to identify these verses and where they come from in the bible.

XXXXTENTACION:
Forgotten the verse but it goes this way "for the wages of sin is death"

The verse in questions says nothing about Hell , nor does it state that if you refuse the gift of Jesus Christ, you will burn in Hell. Try again!

XXXXTENTACION:
and then in revelations it says something like this "satan and his followers will be cast into a lake of burning fire "

This verse from a dream, by the way, does not tell you that Satan's followers are even Humans to begin with. Try again!

XXXXTENTACION:
and then in one of the gospels were jesus told the parable of a rich man vs a poor man(lazarus). The poor man dies and goes to dine with father Abraham in heaven while the rich man dies and goes to hell in the parable the rich man begs Abraham to allow Lazarus to give him a drop of water.

That parable tells a story of a rich man who refuses kindness to a poor beggar. The story is not about Jesus Christ and it does not mention anyone of the characters refusing the gift of Jesus Christ only to end up in Hell fire. Try again.

XXXXTENTACION:
these verses may not directly mention hell but they provide hints to the existence of a hell-like place.
as a staunch christian i expect you to be able to identify these verses and where they come from in the bible.

The question I asked you was clear and simple. All you have done is show how ignorant of the belief you are. Here again, is the question for you Where in the Bible is it written that if you refuse the gift of Jesus Christ, you will burn and suffer in hellfire?

Kobojunkiee:
What makes you think everyone wants to be saved from "drowning"? Obviously, not everyone does and so there is nothing for those who chose not to, to pay for.

it is not a choice not to pay, if you jump into a moving train you dont chose to or not to die after you jump.

livingchrist:
it is not a choice not to pay, if you jump into a moving train you dont chose to or not to die after you jump.

Pay for what? Where did Jesus Christ stipulate that there is a price for refusing His free gift? In His words, please!

XXXXTENTACION:
If a person refuses the life jacket that is not a guaranttee to drowning. If the person is a skilled swimmer then drowning would not be easy.

that is if he is a skilled swimmer right? If everyone were professional swimmers then, there would have being no need a life jacket in the first place, the life jacket is met for those who cannot swim, salvation is met for the sinners not the righteous.

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.




If you could save yourself God wouldnt have bothered in the first place.
I

Kobojunkiee:
Pay for what? Where did Jesus Christ stipulate that there is a price for refusing His free gift? In His words, please!

the price for your sin.

livingchrist:
the price for your sin.

Jesus Christ made it clear to you that He did not come to condemn the sinners, but to save them. In John 3, you are informed God's reason for sending Jesus Christ into the world was to save an already condemned world, not to further condemn the world or task the sinners to pay for anything as you assume there.

John 3 vs 16-21 (ERV)
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16. “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
17. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
18. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
19. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
20. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
21. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

So what has the price of sin to do with Jesus Christ?

livingchrist:
that is if he is a skilled swimmer right? If everyone were professional swimmers then, there would have being no need a life jacket in the first place, the life jacket is met for those who cannot swim, salvation is met for the sinners not the righteous.

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.




If you could save yourself God wouldnt have bothered in the first place.
I

A fish does not need to be saved from the sea because the fish is part of sea.

XXXXTENTACION:
A fish does not need to be saved from the sea because the fish is part of sea.

But a human is not a fish, no matter how good you are at swimming you can never be a fish

Kobojunkiee:
Jesus Christ made it clear to you that He did not come to condemn the sinners, but to save them. In John 3, you are informed God's reason for sending Jesus Christ into the world was to save an already condemned world, not to further condemn the world or task the sinners to pay for anything as you assume there.
So what has the price of sin to do with Jesus Christ?

God did task anybody to pay for his or her sin, it is either its credited to Christ account or you pay it yourself but which ever way sin must be played for, it is a debt no one can run away from.

Kobojunkiee:
The verse in questions says nothing about Hell , nor does it state that if you refuse the gift of This verse from a dream, by the way, does not tell you that Satan's followers are even Humans to begin with
That parable tells a story of a rich man who refuses kindness to a poor beggar. The story is not about Jesus Christ and it does not mention anyone of the characters refusing the gift of Jesus Christ only to end up iThe question I asked you was clear and simple. All you have done is show how ignorant of the belief you are. Here again, is the question for you Where in the Bible is it written that if you refuse the gift of Jesus Christ, you will burn and suffer in hellfire?

You just got this whole thing twisted but let me follow your cue and see where
since i cannot provide verses from the bible to back up the existence of hell fire or punishments for rejecting the gift of Jesus.


so what point are you trying to make

livingchrist:
God did task anybody to pay for his or her sin, it is either its credited to Christ account or you pay it yourself but which ever way sin must be played for, it is a debt no one can run away from.

Where do you get this from? Where in, God's own words, does He declare this that you claim here? What is the Bible reference to this claim you made here?

XXXXTENTACION:
You just got this whole thing twisted but let me follow your cue and see where
since i cannot provide verses from the bible to back up the existence of hell fire or punishments for rejecting the gift of Jesus.
so what point are you trying to make

It means your earlier claim that those who refuse Jesus Christ are Hell-bound is not biblical i.e. it is false and not according to the Bible teachings.

If you want to take another stab at it, be my guest. Where in the Bible is it written that if you refuse the gift of Jesus Christ, you will burn and suffer in hellfire?

livingchrist:
But a human is not a fish, no matter how good you are at swimming you can never be a fish

am i just trying to tell you that you can't save fish from water because the fish is already part and parcel with the water.



so what exactly do humans need salvation from

is it the world
you were born in the world and you were brought up in this world you are already part and parcel with the world and all it's activities.



saying that a human being needs salvation from the world is just like saying a fish needs salvation from water.

Kobojunkiee:
It means your earlier claim that those who refuse Jesus Christ are Hell-bound is not biblical i.e. it is false and not according to the Bible teachings.

If you want to take another stab at it, be my guest. Where in the Bible is it written that if you refuse the gift of Jesus Christ, you will burn and suffer in hellfire?

Ok lets agree its not written anywhere in the bible.

is that okay

XXXXTENTACION:
Ok lets agree its not written anywhere in the bible.
is that okay

Your OP for this thread stems from your belief in the lie, is it not?

Kobojunkiee:
Your OP for this thread stems from your belief in the lie, is it not?

Kindly re-phrase this question. More Like ask this question using another set of words for better understanding and better reply.

Kobojunkiee:
Where do you get this from? Where in, God's own words, does He declare this that you claim here? What is the Bible reference to this claim you made here?

Not believing in Jesus =having the wrath of God abide in you/perishing in your sins
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

XXXXTENTACION:
am i just trying to tell you that you can't save fish from water because the fish is already part and parcel with the water.



so what exactly do humans need salvation from

is it the world
you were born in the world and you were brought up in this world you are already part and parcel with the world and all it's activities.



saying that a human being needs salvation from the world is just like saying a fish needs salvation from water.

salvation from the world can only come after salvation from sin.

From your analogy, A fish living in a polluted water should be left there because it was born and bred in it even after knowing that the fish will later die from the effect of the water?

Suggesting a different meaning for a verse plucked from its original context is tantamount to lying in the name of God.

livingchrist:

Not believing in Jesus =having the wrath of God abide in you/perishing in your sins
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Notice how even when read in the original context, as below, John 3 vs 36 says nothing of what you pretend it does above?

John 3 vs 31-36 (ERV)
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31. “The one who comes from above is greater than all others. The one who is from the earth belongs to the earth. He talks about things that are on the earth. But the one who comes from heaven is greater than all others.
32. He tells what he has seen and heard, but people don’t accept what he says.
33. Whoever accepts what he says has given proof that God speaks the truth.
34. God sent him, and he tells people what God says. God gives him the Spirit fully.
35. The Father loves the Son and has given him power over everything.
36. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. But those who do not obey the Son will never have that life. They cannot get away from God’s anger.”

John 3 vs 36 says nothing of payment for sins being demanded from those who reject the gift of Jesus Christ.

livingchrist:
John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

A careful reading of the passage below will also reveal that Jesus Christ did not exert a payment of any sort on the people for choosing to continue in their condemned state. He simply reminded them that they were doomed to die/perish in their sins, as it has been from the time of Adam, without Him.

John 8 vs 21-14 (ERV)
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21. Again, Jesus said to the people, “I will leave you. You will look for me, but you will die in your sin. You cannot come where I am going.”
22. So the Jewish leaders asked themselves, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he said, ‘You cannot come where I am going’?”
23. But Jesus said to them, “You people are from here below, but I am from above. You belong to this world, but I don’t belong to this world.
24. I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don’t believe that I Am,[b] you will die in your sins.”
25. They asked, “Then who are you?” Jesus answered, “I am what I have told you from the beginning.
26. I have much more I could say to judge you. But I tell people only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he speaks the truth.”
27. They did not understand who he was talking about. He was telling them about the Father.
28. So he said to them, “You will lift up[c] the Son of Man. Then you will know that I Am. You will know that whatever I do is not by my own authority. You will know that I say only what the Father has taught me.
29. The one who sent me is with me. I always do what pleases him. So he has not left me alone.”
30. While he was saying these things, many people believed in him.

Wages of sin have been set in place from before the time of Adam. Adam happened to be the first of many to perish in their sins. Jesus Christ came to offer men an alternative to death and the grave, not to further condemn those who reject Him. There is no payment to be made by those who refuse the gift that Jesus Christ offers - they have already been condemned to die from the beginning.

: A fish does not need to be saved from the sea because the fish is part of sea. But a human is not a fish, no matter how good you are at swimming you can never be a fish