well can you translate the following into any nigerian language please
1. mutual respect
2. superficial congeniality
3.indifferent
4.colonize
5.susceptible
well if you can do all five i am on the floor with full dobale.
why is it that we are so proud of how well we can speak english and take pleasure in deriding others when they "Ta ibon" or shell as others call it. i know a yoruba women in lagos who actively discourages people from speaking yoruba to her children and spends  a lot of money every year bringing them to Peckham(yes the fountain of the English language) every summer in furtherance of her english language mastery project.
have nigerians given up on their languages?
do we believe on any level that our languages are not good enough?

1. Mutual Respect
--- igwhugwhu/ugwhu ekwekwu nye

2. Superficial Congeniality
--- Idi la nma ngbaara esere

3. Indifferent
--- EDIT: dubem

4. Colonize
--- Kwhabhaa (the use of "kwhabhaa" though sometimes requires further complimenting, but that is context dependent)

5. Susceptible
--- Just as "indifferent", the sentence being made with this one (or one of its variant forms) will determine the proper expression

You see, the thing about languages is that when you're speaking one, you're never thinking in respect to another. When I say colonize, I think in terms of "colonize" and never "kwhabhaa", and when I say "kwhabhaa", I think in terms of "kwhabhaa" and never "colonize", although both express the same concepts when defined. You get what I mean? So, of course, when you ask for words/expressions like "mutual respect", "superficial congeniality", etc. it will prove difficult, because, although those expressions do indeed exist in our various languages, they don't exist in respect to expressions like the above. To me, "idi la nma" is "idi la nma", and I never think of 'congeniality' (although, that is the same idea it expresses). Those five expressions/words you have up there aren't even all that unique, though. They express rather basic ideas, which I would venture to say are familiar to all cultures.

chinenye thank you. you did not say so but i believe you are tranlating IGBO we need further validation from other igbo native speakers to test inter- user reliability and by that i mean if i take this translation to another native speaker without knowing the context he will know what we are talking about . also from speakers of other nigerian languages.
i am particularly keen to see how much agreement/disagreement there is among speakers of the same language.
you are right about not thinking in relative terms. i think that is the advantage the english language has over most others it willingess to borrow shamelessly from other languages. nigerian languages do it too but not in a systematic way so e.g in yoruba we say ino elektriki and i am sure there are similar examples in igbo. i think the problem is that this is not standardized in a way that allows new additions automatically.
e.g there is a word sabe  meaning to know as well as sabed and sabeing in the recent chambers dictionary all from the spanish root sabe, the same sabi we use in pidgin. i think african laguages maybe need to be more flexible so that they don't die

No problem, and yeah, I was 'translating' in a kind of Igbo.

Chineyem,I could not even pronounce most of ur translations.
@Thread,Like has been pointed out,the translations wud largely depend on the context in which in the words are used.
Mutual respect . . .Nkwanyere Ugwu.

Indifference.

aikankansi ---ai ka nkan si (not counting anything important) or
aibikita---(not caring)

Superficial Congeniality
Oju Aye (Eye service).

Colonize. (doesnt exist in our language. we either enslave you or simply rule you. there's nothing like colonization).

ikonileru -- enslaving or slavery.
ijoba -- rulership
isakoso -- dominion

Mutual Respect
Ibowo

Susceptible
(Hard depends on context).

Kodewrita, curious question, where are you from?

ifyalways:

Chineyem,I could not even pronounce most of your translations. 

Sorry o. If you want, you could try them without the h's, but then the meaning wouldn't be the same, either that, or there would be no meaning.

Aribisala0, I got it, the expression for "indifferent/indifference". I had to do some serious thinking, but I remembered it. It's an expression we used in at home --- dubem; it's been a long while since that expression's been used. It would have nearly been forgotten, lost to oblivion, had you not made this topic. There are still a number of other expressions that can be used besides "dubem", but the use of those depends on context. My response for 'susceptibility' still remains the same though, depending on the context and subject of discussion, the expression for 'susceptiblity' varies, but it does exist. That's not say though that there doesn't exist a straight expression for it. We could very well have a straight expression for 'susceptible/susceptibility'. I just don't remember/know it, but I can still easily communicate that idea of 'susceptible/susceptibility'.

Well, I got all five, so . . .

aribisala0:

if you can do all five i am on the floor with full dobale.

author=ChinenyeN link=topic=638512.msg8061198#msg8061198 date=1302056270]
Kodewrita, curious question, where are you from?
Sorry o. If you want, you could try them without the h's, but then the meaning wouldn't be the same, either that, or there would be no meaning.

Aribisala0, I got it, the expression for "indifferent/indifference". I had to do some serious thinking, but I remembered it. It's an expression we used in at home --- dubem; it's been a long while since that expression's been used. It would have nearly been forgotten, lost to oblivion, had you not made this topic. There are still a number of other expressions that can be used besides "dubem", but the use of those depends on context. My response for 'susceptibility' still remains the same though, depending on the context and subject of discussion, the expression for 'susceptiblity' varies, but it does exist. That's not say though that there doesn't exist a straight expression for it. We could very well have a straight expression for 'susceptible/susceptibility'. I just don't remember/know it, but I can still easily communicate that idea of 'susceptible/susceptibility'.

[quoteWell, I got all five, so . . .
[quote][/quote]

your brethren need to agree you got it .one person can't even pronounce what you are writing??

chinenye just kidding but i keep my words don't worry

@ChinenyeN

Y>O>R>U>B>A

kodewrita:

@ChinenyeN
Y>O>R>U>B>A

Oh okay.

aribisala0:

your brethren need  to agree you got it .one person can't even pronounce what you are writing??

I don't like to assume, so I'll just ask straightforward. Are you aware of how intense lexical variety can be, or better yet, is, in Igbo? Me, I don't/can't speak a general kind of Igbo, and as such, I can't guarantee the expressions/words I have up there will be recognizable to everyone else, but this I know to be true, we use(d) them at home. As for the issue of pronunciation, that's because of the h's. One could very well choose to pronounce those words without the h's (indicating aspiration), but the presence (or lack thereof) of those h's can mean the difference between a different meaning, or no meaning at all. . . but for the sake of the discussion, I will forgo the h's.

So, now we have
1. Mutual Respect
---- igwugwu/ugwu ekwekwu nye

2. Superficial Congeniality
---- idi la nma ngbara esere

3. Indifferent/Indifference
---- dubem

4. Colonize
---- kwabaa (further complimenting may be required, but that is context-dependent)

5. Susceptible/Susceptibility
----  context-dependent (i.e. the subject, what the subject is responding to, and the response in question), although there are some common syntax elements I notice, whenever the idea of 'susceptibility' is being discussed/expressed.
---- I spoke with my father though, and he said that there just might be a word/expression for it (or, at least that he vaguely remembers its existence), but that the word/expression may just be among the exhaustive list of ancient, dying (if not already dead and lost) words/expressions, since English has now become our predominant mode of communication.

you will be surprised how much of that there is in england if you live here and travel outside london.
in the north people rarely say yes rather they say AYE.

a few more examples geordies(newcastle)
bairn,grandbairn = child grandchild
i am gan = i am going
doon toon = down town
Q how are ya?
A champion = very good
Q how far is the market
A its a canny walk from here you better TAK a taxi(TAK = take)
in the north people prefer to say the words; OWT or NOWT = anything and nothing as in
i haven't done owt=  i haven't done anything
that is how they speak everyday
quite interseting.

but there are several other dialects in england like cumbria and brum e.g and some complain that they have been forced to change to a form of english different from their dialects
and so it is with yoruba but the literary form as well as electronic media brings standardization as in the translation of the bible  into yoruba which i think was where standardization of yoruba started. there is one standard form of written yoruba i dunno about igbo

Okay, well, this just leaves me with one curious question. Seeing as to how this is becoming more about standardization (inter-user reliability test, general Igbo, pronunciation issues), and seeing as to how I can't guarantee standardization/recognizability, does it now mean that my 'translations' don't count as per your initial request?

lol.
make some of ya brodas come talk say na so. igbo guyns full here na .
you get?
you see ifyalways seems to have another idea so be patient i will dobale for the deserving.

^Haha,dobale fun e jor.Is do bale not supposed to be 2 words btw?

Indifference . . . Nkiri- nkiri,anya- anya.

how do i know you guys are not just making this up

aribisala0:

how do i know you guys are not just making this up

Rofl
You extremely funny.

Your do bale is worth? Guy,no make me use laff wound myself jor.

>@ifyalways, sister is dis u, lonqest time, no see, do u remember one "ZTYLE" 2007-2009 NL Section ? Are u still in IVory Coast? Kia e dom tey oh!
>@thread, mbam i can't speak wella.

3RNEST:

>@ifyalways, sister is dis u, lonqest time, no see, do u remember one "ZTYLE" 2007-2009 NL Section ? Are u still in IVory Coast? Kia e dom tey oh!
>@thread, mbam i can't speak wella.

Na u be dis?
Niceuzor

Was I ever In Ivory coast Anyways,glad to see you ard .Do u happen to know either Seun001,Bblack or Zignor whereabts?

190 has taken ur position in the Romance section.lol

ifyalways:

Rofl
You extremely funny. 

Your do bale is worth? Guy,no make me use laff wound myself jor.

is is true what some people claim about naija ladies . everything is all about money

aribisala0:

how do i know you guys are not just making this up

wait o, let us all try and understand this together. First, you come dey ask the general assembly if we sabi speak our own languages well, listing 5 items we suppose translate. Now, we for don do am. We for don translate in our own language(s), and you dey hia dey wonda if we are just making up our responses?

What more do you want? Na my language. I sabi speak am well well.

And to think I imagined the OP was Nigerian,Yoruba precisely.Here was I singing "do bale" (to kneel in greeting as a sign of respect) not knowing the OP is the land's newest J-E-R-K.

Mscheew.Goodbye thread.

ifyalways:


And to think I imagined the OP was Nigerian,Yoruba precisely.Here was I  singing "do bale" (to kneel in greeting as a sign of respect) not knowing the OP is the land's newest J-E-R-K.

Mscheew.Goodbye thread.

sorry no offense intended.it was a joke,probably a bad one. again sorry. i really do not like to offend any one.
unless necessary

ChinenyeN:

wait o, let us all try and understand this together. First, you come dey ask the general assembly if we sabi speak our own languages well, listing 5 items we suppose translate. Now, we for don do am. We for don translate in our own language(s), and you dey hia dey wonda if we are just making up our responses?

What more do you want? Na my language. I sabi speak am well well.

chinenye it is not like that what i am trying to see is if because we do not use our languages as much as we use english ,people are still good in their languages, i speak yoruba reasonably well but i am not sure whether other yoruba . speakers will agree with my translation.
but the translation is not the main point. i asked two questions as well

i appreciate your efforts and give you my full dobale but we still need to see whether other igbo speakers agree with you
have nigerians given up on their languages?
do we believe on any level that our languages are not good enough?
  this really is the main point of the thread . i think you missed that

>@ifyalways, Nne u have a gud memory oh, i tot u wudn't reconize my voice, indeed times fly, & those guyz u mention, i miss dem alot but no where to be found, uhm, gud to see u again, lets connect via facebook dere where i keep track of old friendz, well dis time i'm back & better fulltime. "wink"

.

.

hello tpiah how are you today

aribisala0:

chinenye it is not like that what i am trying to see is if because we do not use our languages as much as we use english ,people are still good in their languages, i speak yoruba reasonably well but i am not sure whether other yoruba . speakers will agree with my translation.

Oh okay, I get it. In that case then, I think I can say that most other Igbo won't agree with my translations, but then again, they won't disagree.

aribisala0:

but the translation is not the main point. i asked two questions as well

i appreciate your efforts and give you my full dobale but we still need to see whether other igbo speakers agree with you
have nigerians given up on their languages?
do we believe on any level that our languages are not good enough?
  this really is the main point of the thread . i think you missed that

Okay, well in answering you questions --

1. No. I don't believe Nigerians have given up on their languages. I say this because I hear people talking so much about this or that language dying, adults complaining that their children are no longer (or never were) interested in learning their languages, children blaming their parents for speaking too much English at home, etc. It seems that people generally have the desire to see more and more of their people fluent in their language. No one's given up. The problem (if one were to ask me) would be on implementation, and this is the point where you think and say "what's the point?" "we might as well just give up".

2. Not just on any level, but most people seem to believe that on most levels (especially where it counts) our languages are not good enough. Take Igbo for example. I read (on Igbo boards) a lot of times where people say thins like "Igbo ezughi ezu" (Igbo is incomplete/insufficient), and I guess this notion could be the cause of implementation problems. Me though, I don't particularly subscribe to that notion of insufficiency. Expressions for many things supposedly 'modern', we have, and where we don't have we should feel free to develop, because that is how languages stay alive. We have to re-institutionalize them to the point where we can truly say that we speak them and use them as a means of interpreting and communicating our worlds. Only once we take it that seriously, we will learn (in a relatively short amount of time) how "insufficient" our languages are.

Just my thoughts.

very insightful stuff.

Aribisala, one question, what do you think/believe about those five expressions? Do you believe the ideas/concepts they convey are so unfamiliar, foreign or complex for our cultures and languages? I ask because you asked about whether or not we were making up our translations, and it got me thinking. Why would you need to ask that? Why would you need to doubt the legitimacy of our translations?

chinenye i have no doubt in you personally.whatsoever. my background is in science and this is responsible for my not accepting what i am told without evidence.
nothing personal
i will give you a a small example.
last year when i was in nigeria i went to visit an uncle. they are involved in some community development projects in their area and they have stakeholders meetings with the government regularly. the stakeholders usually meet at his house  to strategise.he had received a sum of money it was quite small really about 20000 naira. he said he had spent the money on printing circulars transport and a few other things. i believe him. somebody questioned him about receipts etc as it was public money.he got very angry and drove that person away from his house quite angrily. saying how he had even spent his own money and no one should insult him etc. he was very surprised when i did not support him.
particularly because we are very close.
i remember he said se mo fe ma fi yen puro
whether i wan dey lie about 20k.
he missed the point completely
no matter how obvious a thing might be sometimes we still need to demonstrate it.
i  guess this is not yet part of our DNA. even if a thing is so obvious to you it might not be to others so you must explain. we tend so say just take and when that does not happen things can become quite violent.

on the second point about the concepts and familiarity. i think many of our languages have tended to develop in a way that eschews precision. in other words the ability to use a form of words to convey a meaning that  is unambiguous. an indispensable requirement in law and science. i try and imagine writing a complex contract in yoruba. i think this is because we use a lot of idioms and proverbs which are often subject to multiple interpretation. i agree that there is no language with absolute precision and that is why there was aneed for new languages for computers.
i hasten to add that i could be wrong in this but that is just the way  i see it