TAO11:


(1) Lol. ”Yarriba” actually have no meaning in Hausa or Arabic languages.

It’s simply the pronunciation of the name “Yoruba” that goes easiest for not only the Hausa-Fulanis’ tongue but also the Arabs’.

The independent references to Captain Clapperton and Rev. Crowther have demonstrated this.

Many culture have their convenient way of pronouncing words foreign to their tongue— sometimes altering said words 100%.

Growing up, I recall the following as the general Yoruba pronunciation of these foreign words:

(1) “Hausa” is “Awúsá”

(2) “Igbo” is “Yíbò” — a certain early European’s pronunciation actually had it as “Abo”.

(3)“Nupe” is “Tápà” — complete alteration (lol); etc.

The Igbos of then (at least those in my precincts) generally pronounced the name “Yoruba” as “Yoruba”.

All these have absolutely nothing to do with coining these people’s names, or being responsible for giving them their names.

It’s simply a matter of the convinient pronunciation that was generally adopted by the Yoruba tongue — at least in the early times.

(2) And on the reference to Baba Ogunde’s “oriki” of the name “Yoruba”.

It’s actually not an oriki per se (if I’m recalling the same thing you’re referring to). Neither was he at tampering an etymology.

He was simply making a onomatopoeic rhythm (that practically gels with the reality of that time and even today) out of the syllables of the name “Yoruba”.

“Yo-Yo-Yo bi ina ale.

Ru-Ru-Ru bi omi okun.

Ba-ba ni Baba won.

••• Yoruba ro nu oo”.

Cheers!

Amazing! Did you study History or Yoruba ma?

zealousayo:
Amazing! Did you study History or Yoruba ma?

No, I didn’t. It began as a pastime and I got quite committed to it over time.

This ‘eye-opening’ thread actually deserves a spot on the front page I think.

@Seun and @Mynd44, please help push this.

@lalasticlala, please this is a front page material here.

Thanks.

TAO11:
No, I didn’t. It began as a pastime and I got quite committed to it over time.

Wow! I'm impressed.

TAO11:


(1) Lol. ”Yarriba” actually have no meaning in Hausa or Arabic languages.

It’s simply the pronunciation of the name “Yoruba” that goes easiest for not only the Hausa-Fulanis’ tongue but also the Arabs’.

The independent references to Captain Clapperton and Rev. Crowther have demonstrated this.

Many culture have their convenient way of pronouncing words foreign to their tongue— sometimes altering said words 100%.

Growing up, I recall the following as the general Yoruba pronunciation of these foreign words:

(1) “Hausa” is “Awúsá”

(2) “Igbo” is “Yíbò” [a certain early European’s pronunciation actually had it as “Abo”].

(3)“Nupe” is “Tápà” [complete alteration, lol)]; etc.

The Igbos of then (at least those in my precincts) generally pronounced the name “Yoruba” as “Yo.ro.ba”.

All these have absolutely nothing to do with being responsible for giving these peoples their names.

It’s simply a matter of the convinient pronunciation that was generally adopted by their tongue in articulating a word foreign to it.

(2) And on the reference to Hubert Ogunde’s “oriki” of the name “Yoruba”.

It’s actually not an oriki per se (if I’m recalling the same thing you’re referring to). Neither was he attempting an etymology of the name.

He was simply making an onomatopoeic rhythm (that practically gels with the reality of the time and even of today) out of the syllables of the name “Yoruba”.

His lines went as follows:

“ Yoruba yo-yo-yo bi ina ale; Yoruba ru-ru-ru bi omi okun; Yoruba ba-ba ni Baba won; yoooo yoo yo, Yoruba roooo nu ooo ”.

Cheers!

You mean Yoruba has no meaning in Hausa and Arabic languages?

I thought Yoruba means bastard.

Anyway, I will go with the facts on ground. Thanks

Okay. I understand the bolded now.

forgiveness:


You mean Ya.ri.ba has no meaning in Hausa and Arabic languages?

I thought Ya.ri.ba means bastard.

Anyway, I will go with the facts on ground. Thanks

Okay. I understand the bolded now.

Lol. No it doesn’t.

Neither does “Hausa” have any meaning in our language even though we also have our pronunciation of their name, viz. “Awúsá”.

Some Yorubas may mischievously say we gave the Hausa people their name from ’walnuts’. But that’s also not true.

Awùsá (the Yoruba word for ’walnut’) is an entirely different word from Awúsá (which is merely our pronunciation of “Hausa” ).

It’s all a matter of the most convenient articulation of a foreign word.

Awúsá or (Hausa) has no meaning in our language — just as Yarriba, Ya.ri.ba, Yarba, Yaruba (or Yoruba) have no meaning in their language.

It’s all about the convenient pronunciation of foreign words. And the evidence have resoundingly affirmed this.

TAO11:
Lol. No it doesn’t.

Neither does “Hausa” have any meaning in our language even though we have our pronunciation of their name, viz. “Awúsá”.

Some Yorubas may mischievously say we gave the Hausa people their name from ’walnuts’. But that’s also not true.

Awùsá (the Yoruba word for ’walnut’) is an entirely different word from Awúsá (which is merely our pronunciation of “Hausa” ).

It’s all a matter of the most continent articulation of a foreign word.

Awúsá or (Hausa) has no meaning in our language — just as Yarriba, Yarba, Yaruba (or Yoruba) have no meaning in their language.

It’s all about the convenient pronunciation of foreign words. And the evidence have resoundingly affirmed this.

What a relief. I was thinking of change of identity from Yoruba to Omoluabi or lucumi. Now, I am at peace.

Thanks

forgiveness:


What a relief. I was thinking of change of identity from Yoruba to Omoluabi or lucumi. Now, I am at peace.

Thanks

Lol! All na our generic name — be it “Yoruba”, or “(O)lukumi”, or “Aku”, or “(A)nago”.

However, rather than being a group name; “omoluwabi” is actually an ideal standard which each and every Yoruba child/person is naturally expected to exhibit.

In that case, anyone (Yoruba or non-Yoruba) may be described by the Yorubas as an “omoluwabi”.

If someone (Yoruba or non-Yoruba) does something impressively virtuous, a Yoruba may say something like:

“Omo yen ṣe omoluwabi”.

Yes I agree that we Yorubas like to think that we are the ideal standard of “omoluwabi”.
.
.
Omoluwabi

omo o li uwa ìbí

omo o ni iwa ìbí
.
.
omo: child/person

o ni: who has

iwa: (virtuous)character

ìbí: (noble)birth

Omoluwabi: One whose virtuous character is due to his honorable roots.

———————
PS:
(1) The word “uwa” here is an archaic Yoruba form for the more common “iwa”.

(2) This “uwa” here is not the same “uwa” as seen in “alaiyeluwa” or in Ijebu names such as “Gbelegbuwa”, etc.

(3) And this “uwa” (i.e. “iwa” ) itself has two different meanings — viz. “character” or “existence”.

Cheers.

TAO11:

Lol! All na our generic name — be it “Yoruba”, or “[O]lukumi”, or “Aku”, or “[A]nago”.

However, rather than being a group name; “omoluwabi” is actually an ideal standard which each and every Yoruba child/person is naturally expected to exhibit.

In that case, anyone (Yoruba or non-Yoruba) may be described by the Yorubas as an “omoluwabi”.

If anyone (Yoruba or non-Yoruba) does something impressively virtuous, a Yoruba may say something like: “Omo yen se omoluwabi”.

Although, I agree that we like to think of ourself as the standard.
.
.
Omoluwabi

omo o li uwa ìbí

omo o ni iwa ibi
.
.
omo: [the]child/person/one

o ni: who has

iwa: [virtuous]character

ìbí: [noble]birth

Omoluwabi: The one whose virtuous character is due to their honorable background.

———————
PS:
(1) The word “uwa” here is an archaic Yoruba form for the more common “iwa”.

(2) This “uwa” here is not the same “uwa” as seen in “alaiyeluwa” or in Ijebu names such as “Gbelegbuwa”, etc.

(3) This “uwa” is simply the same as the more common “iwa”.

(4) And it itself (i.e. “uwa” = “iwa” ) has two different meanings (viz. “character” or “existence” ) only one of which applies here.

Cheers.

Yeah! I know Omoluabi is no a group name but I just think it should be ara Omoluabi or Ile Omoluabi as a group or nation name instead of Omo Odua.


Thanks. I appreciate.

forgiveness:
Yeah! I know Omoluabi is no a group name but I just think it should be ara Omoluabi or Ile Omoluabi as a group or nation name instead of Omo Odua.


Thanks. I appreciate.

Awesome; and you’re welcome.

Just a quick one:
(1) I am aware that I’m still owing you a reply on the Ijebu subgroup.

I have discussed the subject in some good details in another thread.

I’d find the thread and mention you with the link when I’m more organized. I should add some background too.

(2) Furthermore, feel free to use the appellation “Omo Oodua”. No, Oduduwa isn’t some Middle-Easterner as popularly thought.

That’s another popular fiction which is in fact traced to Sultan Bello’s writings of the early 1800s.

He didn’t obtain any such information from the Yorubas themselves. And the Yorubas never originally had any such tradition about Oduduwa.

Instead, his story later came to influence many later writings and stories on the roots of Oduduwa, the roots of the Ijebus, the roots of the Bins, etc.

Everyone thus suddenly began to look Middle-Eastward for the roots of some of the most important personages in the history of their civilization.

Since the mid/late-1900s however, historians began to abandon his stories (as is to be expected), and focused instead on what Yoruba traditions originally say about the roots of the historical Oduduwa.

On the basis of Yoruba traditions, historians of African and Yoruba history have now come to the most logical conclusion on the roots of the historical Oduduwa.

The Yoruba traditions insist ab-initio that Oduduwa’s roots is to be found in one of the hilly-settlements surrounding the Ife bowl.

Historians are now generally agreed (on the basis of internal evidence) that Oduduwa’s roots is indigenous to Yorubaland — the hilly-settlements around the Ife bowl.

In fact, some scholars like Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye are actually more emphatic and specific (rather than generic) in their conclusion.

From his examination of the indigenous narrative, he reached the conclusion (via a consistent and sound argument) that Oduduwa’s root is not only indigenous.

He noted that his predecessors had in fact came down to settle in the Ife bowl before Oduduwa himself would be born.

His specific conclusion from a careful and thorough analysis of the traditions notes that “Oduduwa was born in the strangers’ area of Ife to leaders of a small group that had relocated from one of the hills beyond the elu at Ife, that he grew up in the tradition of resentment in the strangers’ area, and that his youth and Obatala’s youth (both of them “sons of the soil” ) were spent in the tradition of growing conflicts in Ife.”

I have discussed this subject too in some good details in some threads. I’d mention you with a link when I find one of such threads.

Oduduwa is our father oo. History remembers him for having played a very, very significant and pivotal role in a critical era of our history (from the late 10th century AD) vis-a-via a great transformation of our civilization.

Cheers!

TAO11:
Awesome; and you’re welcome.

Just a quick one:
(1) I am aware that I’m still owing you a reply on the Ijebu subgroup.

I have discussed the subject in some good details in another thread.

I’d find the thread and mention you with the link when I’m more organized. I should add some background too.

(2) Furthermore, feel free to use the appellation “Omo Oodua”. No, Oduduwa isn’t some Middle-Easterner as popularly thought.

That’s another popular fiction which is in fact traced to Sultan Bello’s writings of the early 1800s.

He didn’t obtain any such information from the Yorubas themselves. And the Yorubas never originally had any such tradition about Oduduwa.

Instead, his story later came to influence many later writings and stories on the roots of Oduduwa, the roots of the Ijebus, the roots of the Bins, etc.

Everyone thus suddenly began to look Middle-Eastward for the roots of some of the most important personages in the history of their civilization.

Since the mid/late-1900s however, historians began to abandon his stories (as is to be expected), and focused instead on what Yoruba traditions originally say about the roots of the historical Oduduwa.

On the basis of Yoruba traditions, historians of African and Yoruba history have now come to the most logical conclusion on the roots of the historical Oduduwa.

The Yoruba traditions insist ab-initio that Oduduwa’s roots is to be found in one of the hilly-settlements surrounding the Ife bowl.

Historians are now generally agreed (on the basis of internal evidence) that Oduduwa’s roots is indigenous to Yorubaland — the hilly-settlements around the Ife bowl.

In fact, some scholars like Professor S. Adebanji Akintoye are actually more emphatic and specific (rather than generic) in their conclusion.

From his examination of the indigenous narrative, he reached the conclusion (via a consistent and sound argument) that Oduduwa’s root is not only indigenous. He noted that his predecessors had in fact came down to settle in the Ife bowl before Oduduwa himself would be born.

His specific conclusion from a careful and thorough analysis of the traditions notes that “Oduduwa was born in the strangers’ area of Ife to leaders of a small group that had relocated from one of the hills beyond the elu at Ife, that he grew up in the tradition of resentment in the strangers’ area, and that his youth and Obatala’s youth (both of them “sons of the soil” ) were spent in the tradition of growing conflicts in Ife.”

I have discussed this subject too in some good details in some threads. I’d mention you with a link when I find one of such threads.

Oduduwa is our father oo. History remembers him for having played a very, very significant and pivotal role in a critical era of our history (from the late 10th century AD) vis-a-via a great transformation of our civilization.

Cheers!

I will appreciate your reply on the Ijebu subgroup.

Are you saying Oduduwa didn't come from Sudan or Mecca?

Are there proofs to back it up?

TAO11 thanks for your explanation.

forgiveness:


I will appreciate your reply on the Ijebu subgroup.

Are you saying Oduduwa didn't come from Sudan or Mecca?

Are there proofs to back it up?

sudan maybe but mecca i doubt that.

forgiveness:
I will appreciate your reply on the Ijebu subgroup.

Sure, no problem. I’m taking my time to deal with the subject in good details.

Are you saying Oduduwa didn't come from Sudan or Mecca?

No he didn’t. Not from any where near those places. He is a indigenous Yoruba man.

The Yoruba traditional narratives agree with this position.

The present-day consensus of professional historical scholarship agrees with this position.

Are there proofs to back it up?

Go ahead and re-visit that comment one more time for some “proofs”.

But be rest assured that I will further discuss this too with detailed references.

Cheers!

Modified
In the meantime before my detailed explanations, I’d like you (as well as anyone else interested) to ponder the following questions:

(1) From whom/where did the idea originate that Oduduwa is from the ‘Near East’ (Mecca, Egypt, Sudan, etc.) ??

(2) From whom/where did the idea originate that the autochthonous Ijebu settlers are from Wadai in Sudan ??

Cheers!

Cc: forgiveness, SMBH

TAO11:
Good write-up! In any case, I’d like to correct some ‘mistakes’ in this write up:

(1) The word “Yoruba” did not originate in Ahmad Baba’s “Mi’raj al-Su’ud”, or in any of his essays.

To originate a word is to coin such word.

The Timbuktu writer, Ahmad Baba (in that essay) simply made reference to different groups of people using their well-known pre-existing names.

The embedded screenshot right below shows a scan of the manuscript folio in question from his original Arabic essay written in the early 1600s.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12934148_5117c6d550154217817d7c66b5fa0fe6_jpeg_jpeg2a73d5172c14cf7a7da91ff200688e3e

The embedded screenshot which follows below shows a translation of the relevant section of the above Arabic original.

This translation below was prepared by John Hunwick and Fatima Harrak for The Institute of African Studies Rabat, Morocco in the year 2000.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12934147_3336ed29985b499e82c4e140b455b9fa_jpeg_jpeg62ecafabb59c692d4ba471597fdf16bb

Clearly, the text shows from its phrasing [viz. “... the group called ... Yoruba ...”] that this is a well-known pre-existing name.

Ahmad Baba didn’t name us, neither did he name any of the ten groups in that listing.
•
•
•
(2) Yes Ahmad Baba wrote “Mi’raj al-Su’ud”, but not in the year 1627 (in case that was assumed).

Rather, this specific essay was written in the year 1615 in response to some inquiries on enslaving black people.

The Arabic text of “Mi’raj al Su’ud” contains the precise year [and month] of its writing (in the Islamic/Hijri calendar obviously) as highlighted in the embedded folio below.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13082305_6e49d8d129844a578af9272699e1586a_jpeg_jpeg2d5891d724a6428e2c0f4e6898bd60cc

The highlight in this folio (which is simply the “verso” of the earlier attached folio) basically shows the wording (in translation): “[The year] one thousand and twenty four [of the Hijrah]”.

When converted from this Hijri “AH” calendar into the Gregorian “CE” calendar; the year 1024AH falls into the year 1615CE.

The well-known formula “G = 0.9692*H + 622” proves sufficiently useful for this conversion.

In the light of my above expositions from Ahmad Baba’s essay of the year 1615, the anachronism and contradiction of the Sultan Bello Coinage myth thus becomes very obvious.

For emphasis, the year 1615 (Ahmad Baba) comes before the year 1837 (Sultan Bello). Lol.

And the word “Yoruba” (as the group name for Yoruba-speaking peoples) has been in existence prior to Baba himself as has been observed in that essay.

What then is the word “Yarriba”, or “Yarba”, etc., and what is its connection with Sultan Bello??

Captain Hugh Clapperton who was an acquaintance of Sultan Bello of Sokoto informs us in his 1829 publication on this.

He noted that “Yarriba” is simply the Arab’s and the Hausa’s articulation of the evidently pre-existing name “Yoruba”. To quote Clapperton’s precise words, he writes:

“Having seen the whole of the baggage off, we started in the evening, and proceeded on our journey. We learned in fact that we were not now in the king of Badagry's territory, but in a district of Eyeo [Ọ̀yọ́], which is called Yarriba by the Arabs and people of Houssa, and that the name of the capital is called Katunga, and that it is thirty days' journey.”

~ Captain Hugh Clapperton; “Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa”; (1829), p. 4.


Furthermore, Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther also writing in the 1800s makes a note to this same foregoing effect when he writes as follows:

“European Travellers obtained the name Katanga from Hausa People. Yarriba, or Yaruba, is likewise the Hausa pronunciation: Yoruba would be more correct”.

~ Reverend Ajayi Crowther; “A Grammar of The Yoruba Language”; (1852), p. i.
•
•
•
In summary, the name “Yoruba” did not originate in the writings of Ahmad Baba in the 1600s. Neither, obviously, did it originate in the writings of Arabs and Hausa-Fulanis in the 1800s.

As has been seen in Ahmad Baba’s essay from the year 1615, the name “Yoruba” (in reference to the Yoruba-speaking group) predates the 1600s.

It is evidently our endonym from a long time ago. Don’t be fooled by modern day propaganda, people.


Cheers!

Cc: LegendHero, SuperBold, chrisxxx, PoliteActivist, kingbee90, illicit, FortifiedCity, Guestlander, SouthNigerian, dvdwed, Ideadoctor, SaintBeehot, gomojam, DenreleDave, reallest, TimeManager, RuggedSniper

Tao11, God will bless you for this, let me safe this in my archive, we need to tell our children our history, imagine northerners almost convince us that the name came from hausa people

Mod abeg front page

TAO11:
Starting with the second:
Actually, some received traditions exist regarding the etymological components of the name “Yoruba”.

The Reverend Samuel Ajayi Crowther, in the 1800s, collected a tradition from among the Egbas which says that an earlier phrase from which this name arises is the phrase: “Ori Obba”.

I am yet to lay my hands on the material itself. I got this from a secondary source which has proven to me to be 100% trustworthy.

I am thus not yet able to access any further remark he may have passed regarding this account which he got from the Egbas.

UPDATE:

The following is an update to the above portion of my earlier comment on etymology.

Two quick points:
(1) Notice that I alluded to a trusted informant as my (secondary) source for a received Egba tradition which (in the 1800s) gives the etymological components of “Yoruba” as “Ori Obba”.

In truth, I actually misrepresented my secondary source on the name of the actual author who collected that tradition from the Egbas.

I have double-checked again with my source and it wasn’t Reverend Samuel Ajayi Crowther who collected that tradition from the Egbas.

It was, in fact, Sir Richard Burton who collected it from the Egbas in the 1800s. My source was accurate, I had erroneously misrepresented my source.

(2) Notice that I had stated that I was “yet to lay my hands on the material itself ... [and] I am thus not yet able to access any further remark he may have passed regarding this account which he got from the Egbas”.

Now, I have the said primary material with me, and I have accessed its relevant content first hand.

Actually, Burton was very cursory in his presentation of this received tradition. His only statement with specific regards to this received Egba tradition is as follows:

“The popular derivation of Yoruba is Ori Obba, or ‘Head King’ — with which, for want of a better, we must fain be satisfied.”

Reference:
R. F. Burton, “Abeokuta and the Camaroons Mountains: An Exploration”, Vol. 1., (W. Clowes and Sons, London, 1863), pp. 228-229.

My Remarks:
(1) From his statement here, Burton himself doesn’t appear totally settled with this explanation, although he judged it to be the best (i.e. the most explanatory) of all the alternative etymological explanations available at the time.

I too am not convinced, but with my reason as follows:

This explanation has got grave defects, a primary one of which is that it fails to account for all of the obvious consonantal components of the name “Yoruba”.

In other words, the sound /j/ (i.e. the consonant “y” ) is left unaccounted for and unexplained.

(2) The only explanation which checks all the boxes still remains Farouk Martins Aresa’s observation — that is; “Oyo r’Oba” which, as I have demonstrated, is the much older form of “Oyo l’Oba”; or “Oyo ni Oba”; i.e. “Oyo is the King”.

This explanation checks the consonantal structure box, it checks the history box, and it checks the linguistic box as well.

(3) It is extremely unlikely that the same Egbas who had initially refused re-adopting the Oyo ‘hegemonic’ name (“Yoruba” ) would, in the same breath, later provide Burton with the correct etymology, “Oyo is the King”.

Put differently; it is the same Egbas, who had refused re-adopting the name “Yoruba”, that also informed R. F. Burton that it simply means “Head King”; i.e. “Ori Obba”.

If the etymology of “Yoruba” is actually as neutral as they’ve represented it to Burton (i.e. “Head King” ), then they wouldn’t have, in the first place, resisted the movement for a re-adoption of “Yoruba” as our group name.

They (the Egbas) obviously weren’t prepared to avail R. F. Burton with the actual — but embarrassing (to them) — etymology of the name “Yoruba”, viz. “Oyo r’Oba”; i.e. “Oyo is the King”.

(4) For emphasis, “Yarriba”, or “Ya.ri.ba”, or “Yaruba”, or “Yarba”, or “Yoruba” actually have no meaning whatsoever in Hausa language.

Also, Sultan Bello never claimed that “Yoruba” was from an Hausa word, neither did he claim that Hausas or Fulanis named us.

In fact, none of the early sources which discussed the etymology of the name “Yoruba” say or even suggest such.

I have discussed this in some good details in my first post on this thread.

LegendHero, SuperBold, illicit, SouthNigerian, SaintBeehot, gomojam, DenreleDave, reallest, TimeManager, RuggedSniper, Ihateniggov, HedwigesMaduro, haffaze777, googi, ivolt, tamdun, SMBH, zealousayo, forgiveness

TAO11:
Sure, no problem. I’m taking my time to deal with the subject in good details.

Yes he didn’t. None of those places. He is a indigenous Yoruba man.

The Yoruba traditional narratives agree with this position.

The present-day consensus of professional historical scholarship agrees with this position.

Go ahead and re-visit that comment one more time for some “proofs”.

But be rest assured that I will further discuss this too with detailed references.

Cheers!

Modified
In the meantime before my detailed explanations, I’d like you (as well as anyone else interested) to ponder the following questions:

(1) From whom/where did the idea originate that Oduduwa is from the ‘Near East’ (Mecca, Egypt, Sudan, etc.) ??

(2) From whom/where did the idea originate that the autochthonous Ijebu settlers are from Wadai in Sudan ??

Cheers!

Cc: forgiveness, SMBH

Ok then. Take your time and deal well with the subject.

What I know is that people migrated to Ile ife . What I don't know is where they migrated from.

Anyway, will be expecting your explanation.

However, I don't know number one but number 2 was confirmed by Awujale himself.

forgiveness:
Ok then. Take your time and deal well with the subject.

What I know is that people migrated to Ile ife . What I don't know is where they migrated from. Anyway, will be expecting your explanation.

I actually appreciate the fact that you’ve already been pondering this subject.

I also appreciate the fact that I get the opportunity to provide these background clarifications even before the actual lengthy comment would drop.

By weekend all this would be super clear when I must have already pooled and organize all the references needed.

However, I don't know number one but number 2 was confirmed by Awujale himself.

It’s okay. Number 1 is more of a rhetorical question because I already answered it in that very comment which you quoted. I only wanted you to ponder it in the light of the answer which was already provided.

For number 2, I am aware that the present Awujale said that. But three quick points to note:

(i) I had specifically requested that you ponder who the originator(s) of that Wadai idea is.

(ii) The ancestors/predecessors of the present Awujale gave a completely different account from what he says.

(iii) The archaeological dating of Ijebu-Ode shows that it has been an organized polity centuries before Wadai was founded.

Yes, I will back all these up with the detailed references which I will incorporate into my forthcoming lengthy comment.

Cheers!
Cc: forgiveness

[Just a clarification, if Oduduwa came from the ife hill side, any historical records of who is parents were.

quote author=TAO11 post=98742773] Sure, no problem. I’m taking my time to deal with the subject in good details.

Yes he didn’t. None of those places. He is a indigenous Yoruba man.

The Yoruba traditional narratives agree with this position.

The present-day consensus of professional historical scholarship agrees with this position.

Go ahead and re-visit that comment one more time for some “proofs”.

But be rest assured that I will further discuss this too with detailed references.

Cheers!

Modified
In the meantime before my detailed explanations, I’d like you (as well as anyone else interested) to ponder the following questions:

(1) From whom/where did the idea originate that Oduduwa is from the ‘Near East’ (Mecca, Egypt, Sudan, etc.) ??

(2) From whom/where did the idea originate that the autochthonous Ijebu settlers are from Wadai in Sudan ??

Cheers!

Cc: forgiveness, SMBH[/quote]

dionma:
[Just a clarification, if Oduduwa came from the ife hill side, any historical records of who is parents were.

quote author=TAO11 post=98742773] Sure, no problem. I’m taking my time to deal with the subject in good details.

Yes he didn’t. None of those places. He is a indigenous Yoruba man.

The Yoruba traditional narratives agree with this position.

The present-day consensus of professional historical scholarship agrees with this position.

Go ahead and re-visit that comment one more time for some “proofs”.

But be rest assured that I will further discuss this too with detailed references.

Cheers!

Modified
In the meantime before my detailed explanations, I’d like you (as well as anyone else interested) to ponder the following questions:

(1) From whom/where did the idea originate that Oduduwa is from the ‘Near East’ (Mecca, Egypt, Sudan, etc.) ??

(2) From whom/where did the idea originate that the autochthonous Ijebu settlers are from Wadai in Sudan ??

Cheers!

Cc: forgiveness, SMBH

Honestly, I will appreciate full details and proofs from you in regards to all these subjects. Thanks

PS: This comment of yours may actually not get the views it deserves because you didn’t use the “Quote” option correctly. You may want to revisit it and “Modify”.

dionma:
Just a clarification, if Oduduwa came from the ife hill side, any historical records of who is parents were.

There is no such information (that I’m aware of) from our original Yoruba indigenous accounts which gives details of his parents names, etc.

Just as there is no such information (that I’m aware of) from our original Yoruba indigenous accounts which gives any detail on Obatala’s parents, Oreluere’s parents, or the parents of any of the primary Ife dramatis personae.

The absence of the details regarding their parents’ names, etc. from our traditional narrative wouldn’t automatically mean that all these men (Obatala, et al.) are Arabs, or Egyptians, or Sudaneses, etc. Or would it?

The question to ponder (before I would shed more light) remains the following:

This ‘Near Eastern’ Oduduwa roots idea that I’ve held tightly to for so long; who actually originated it?

While pondering that, note again that the historical accounts which actually originated from the Yorubas themselves maintain that Oduduwa is a Yoruba from the hilly settlement of Oke-Ora specifically — hence his cognomen of “Oshin Ora”.

LegendHero:


Thanks for this.

It’s very helpful.

Subunaahaalaah

TAO11 ,

Your research, consistency and endurance on this subject must be published not only at the university level or academic papers, but for the sake of secondary and primary school pupils.

This is serious stuff. We also have to thank our distractors for provoking academic research.

Thanks and lots of hugs.

TAO11,

I completely concur because it is easier for the culture and speakers in different dialects to relate to, since it had always been part of their language and familiar to those they trade with in kola and other items across the desert and sea.

(2) The only explanation which checks all the boxes still remains Farouk Martins’s observation, viz. “Oyo r’Oba” which, as I have demonstrated, is the much older form of “Oyo l’Oba”; or “Oyo ni Oba”; i.e. “Oyo is the King”.

This explanation checks the consonantal structure box, it checks the history box, and it checks the linguistic box as well.

TAO11:
Good write-up! In any case, I’d like to correct some ‘mistakes’ in this write up:

(1) The word “Yoruba” did not originate in Ahmad Baba’s “Mi’raj al-Su’ud”, or in any of his essays.

To originate a word is to coin such word.

The Timbuktu writer, Ahmad Baba (in that essay) simply made reference to different groups of people using their well-known pre-existing names.

The embedded screenshot right below shows a scan of the manuscript folio in question from his original Arabic essay written in the early 1600s.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12934148_5117c6d550154217817d7c66b5fa0fe6_jpeg_jpeg2a73d5172c14cf7a7da91ff200688e3e

The embedded screenshot which follows below shows a translation of the relevant section of the above Arabic original.

This translation below was prepared by John Hunwick and Fatima Harrak for The Institute of African Studies Rabat, Morocco in the year 2000.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12934147_3336ed29985b499e82c4e140b455b9fa_jpeg_jpeg62ecafabb59c692d4ba471597fdf16bb

Clearly, the text shows from its phrasing [viz. “... the group called ... Yoruba ...”] that this is a well-known pre-existing name.

Ahmad Baba didn’t name us, neither did he name any of the ten groups in that listing.
•
•
•
(2) Yes Ahmad Baba wrote “Mi’raj al-Su’ud”, but not in the year 1627 (in case that was assumed).

Rather, this specific essay was written in the year 1615 in response to some inquiries on enslaving black people.

The Arabic text of “Mi’raj al Su’ud” contains the precise year [and month] of its writing (in the Islamic/Hijri calendar obviously) as highlighted in the embedded folio below.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13082305_6e49d8d129844a578af9272699e1586a_jpeg_jpeg2d5891d724a6428e2c0f4e6898bd60cc

The highlight in this folio (which is simply the “verso” of the earlier attached folio) basically shows the wording (in translation): “[The year] one thousand and twenty four [of the Hijrah]”.

When converted from this Hijri “AH” calendar into the Gregorian “CE” calendar; the year 1024AH falls into the year 1615CE.

The well-known formula “G = 0.9692*H + 622” proves sufficiently useful for this conversion.

In the light of my above expositions from Ahmad Baba’s essay of the year 1615, the anachronism and contradiction of the Sultan Bello Coinage myth thus becomes very obvious.

For emphasis, the year 1615 (Ahmad Baba) comes before the year 1837 (Sultan Bello). Lol.

And the word “Yoruba” (as the group name for Yoruba-speaking peoples) has been in existence prior to Baba himself as has been observed in that essay.

What then is the word “Yarriba”, or “Yarba”, etc., and what is its connection with Sultan Bello??

Captain Hugh Clapperton who was an acquaintance of Sultan Bello of Sokoto informs us in his 1829 publication on this.

He noted that “Yarriba” is simply the Arab’s and the Hausa’s articulation of the evidently pre-existing name “Yoruba”. To quote Clapperton’s precise words, he writes:

“Having seen the whole of the baggage off, we started in the evening, and proceeded on our journey. We learned in fact that we were not now in the king of Badagry's territory, but in a district of Eyeo [Ọ̀yọ́], which is called Yarriba by the Arabs and people of Houssa, and that the name of the capital is called Katunga, and that it is thirty days' journey.”

~ Captain Hugh Clapperton; “Journal of a Second Expedition Into the Interior of Africa”; (1829), p. 4.


Furthermore, Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther also writing in the 1800s makes a note to this same foregoing effect when he writes as follows:

“European Travellers obtained the name Katanga from Hausa People. Yarriba, or Yaruba, is likewise the Hausa pronunciation: Yoruba would be more correct”.

~ Reverend Ajayi Crowther; “A Grammar of The Yoruba Language”; (1852), p. i.
•
•
•
In summary, the name “Yoruba” did not originate in the writings of Ahmad Baba in the 1600s. Neither, obviously, did it originate in the writings of Arabs and Hausa-Fulanis in the 1800s.

As has been seen in Ahmad Baba’s essay from the year 1615, the name “Yoruba” (in reference to the Yoruba-speaking group) predates the 1600s.

It is evidently our endonym from a long time ago. Don’t be fooled by modern day propaganda, people.


Cheers!

Cc: LegendHero, SuperBold, chrisxxx, PoliteActivist, kingbee90, illicit, FortifiedCity, Guestlander, SouthNigerian, dvdwed, Ideadoctor, SaintBeehot, gomojam, DenreleDave, reallest, TimeManager, RuggedSniper

Hmmm. Well done.

TAO11:
I’d try.

This would get technical, but I trust that you would be able to follow through.


In the light of my earlier comment, the popular idea that the name “Yoruba” originated from some alleged derogatory remark by Sultan Bello - blah-blah - actually has no leg to stand on.

The name “Yoruba” (in reference to Yoruba-speaking peoples) is evidently more antique than the first Fulani emirate in our region. This is evident from the 1600s Timbuktu writings which makes reference to this name.

As has been shown, the name “Yoruba” (in reference to the Yoruba-speaking peoples) predates the 1600s — to have been a well-known pre-existing name in as far as Mali since the early 1600s.

Now, given these two backgrounds, namely: 1) the false-exogeneity of this name, and 2) its considerable antiquity; it logically follows then that any attempt at its etymological components need not be a 100% certainty — and that is okay for an antique name from a pre-literate society.

In fact, many literate cultures do not have a 100% certainty whatsoever as per the etymological components of their “groups’ names”, and that’s okay too. These names are also antique — e.g. “London”, “Japan”, amongst innumerable others.

The fairest possible original one may then arrive at for the present-day indigenous name, “Yoruba”, is via one or both of the following approaches:

1) A careful consideration of the syllabic-components of the present-day name in the light of the relevant historical and linguistic realities.

2) An examination of what the received traditions have to say regarding the etymology of the name — if any such received traditions on its etymology exist.

Starting with the second:
Actually, some received traditions exist regarding the etymological components of the name “Yoruba”.

The Reverend Samuel Ajayi Crowther, in the 1800s, collected a tradition from among the Egbas which says that an earlier phrase from which this name arises is the phrase: “Ori Obba”.

I am yet to lay my hands on the material itself. I got this from a secondary source which has proven to me to be 100% trustworthy.

I am thus not yet able to access any further remark he may have passed regarding this account which he got from the Egbas.


Regarding the first:
I have to begin with a disclaimer. I do not claim to have originally come up with this observation.

However, I did expound it beyond the very cursory highlight penned by its author — the columnist, Farouk Martins Omo Aresa.

In the name “Yoruba”, Omo Aresa spotted the basic components: Oyo & Oba — “OYO-OBA, OYO-ROBA, OYO-RUBA”.

He remarked briefly on how this flows from Yoruba “orikis”, and he expressed a subtle regret on how this has gone unnoticed by many.

Now, I find this view to be highly explanatory not merely because of those two components.

Rather, those two components fit very nicely into the relevant historical and linguistic realities.

Firstly, the phrase: “Oyo is the King” (in the sense of Oyo as the new sheriff in town) fits nicely with the fact that “Oyo” was the core Yoruba polity which succeeded Ife after Ife’s military and commercial decline in the early/mid-1400s.

~ Robin Horton, (1979), p. 141.

The phrase “Oyo is the King” is thus rooted in an endogenous Oyo attitude which must have begun as early as the late-1400s following Ife’s decline as the Yoruba power in the Guinea Forest from the early/mid-1400s.

Secondly, this phrase: “Oyo is the King” apparently continued when Oyo embarked on actual imperial programs (which gradually saw the Alaafin of Oyo as the proud overlord over other kingdoms too) right after the successful return of the capital from Oyo-Igboho back to Oyo-Ile in the late 1500s.

Thirdly, having began to dominate other Yoruba kingdoms from the late-1500s; the phrase “Oyo is the king” must therefore have taken the shape of a proper appellation which is now no longer restricted only to the Oyo-subgroup of the Yoruba group.

This explains Ahmad Baba’s reference to the name “Yoruba” (as a group’s name — rather than a fraction of a group) in the year 1615. His reference indicates a well-known pre-existing group name.

This also explains why (in the early 1800s) many former Oyo tributaries (after their independence from Oyo) initially refused to re-adopt this apparently ‘hegemonic’ group name.

Fourthly, turning to the linguistic angle; it may seem unrealistic that a Yoruba translation of the phrase, “Oyo is the King”, would come any close to the name “Yoruba”.

Yes, without a careful and deep consideration, the translation “Oyo ni Oba” is all one would get from the phrase: “Oyo is the King”.

And that doesn't seem anywhere close to the name “Yoruba” — especially considering the fact that “ni” is the Yoruba equivalent of the English word “is”.

So, while the historical side appears consistent all along so far; the linguistic angle seems to suggest a grave hole which demolishes this explanation.

But as will soon be seen, there is actually no linguistic hole at all in this explanation.

Fifthly, the translation of the word “is” (in the phrase: “Oyo is the king” ) as “ni” (in Yoruba language) actually ignores a key fact.

This translation ignores the fact that the present-day Yoruba equivalent of “is” (which is “ni“ ) was not unchanging over the centuries up till present-day.

For example, the (1800s) writings of Rev. Samuel Crowther shows the word “li” to be a Yoruba equivalent of the English word “is” in the 1800s.

In the light of this 1800s fact, the phrase: “Oyo is the King” would have been translated as “Oyo li Oba” using the 1800s’ realities.

If this was the evolving reality between the 1800s and now; what then would have been the Yoruba equivalent of “is” in the actual period of our interest — i.e. the 1400s and the 1500s??

To delve into this distant past of our language, recourse has to be made to an established fact in linguistic analysis, which is that:

(1) The present differentiated dialects of a language were actually more undifferentiated and more uniform the farther back in time you go.

In specific terms, all the present-day dialectal differentiations of the Yoruba language were actually more undifferentiated 100 years ago. And they are even more undifferentiated 200 years ago, and so forth into the past.

This linguistic fact would soon prove to be very useful for our deconstruction and regress.

(2) In addition to the foregoing linguistic fact, another observation among present-day Yoruba dialects which would also prove very useful is the fact that some Yoruba dialects have proven very, very stable over time.

These relatively stable dialects are those which must be resorted to in order to reasonably unravel what the Yoruba language must have uniformly sounded like many centuries ago.

These ‘stable’ dialects are found along the southern, eastern and south-eastern Yoruba frontiers. To be very precise, some of them are the Ijebu and the Itsekiri dialects of the Yoruba language, among others in the region.

This is well-known to linguists, but to spotlight some instances of this fact; some Yoruba words are alive till date among all Yorubas, but only in usage — their meanings have generally been lost to time.

However, these words are preserved intact till date in both usage and meaning in the Ijebu dialect for example.

The Yoruba word ”Ùwà”, as in “Alaiyeluwa”, is an example in this regard. It is a considerably antique Yoruba word.

Another category are Yoruba words whose usage are generally lost and even replaced by other words — but only remembered to have once been in use.

The Yoruba word “Olùkù” which has been completely replaced by another word (though remembered to have once been in use) is an example in this regard.

This word is still alive in meaning and in everyday usage in the Ijebu dialect of the Yoruba language.

These among some more technical reasons explains the resort to the Ijebu dialect in an attempt to establish what a more uniform and undifferentiated Yoruba language would have sounded like many centuries ago.

In the light of this approach, the phrase “Oyo is the King” in the Ijebu dialect (which is our dialectal yardstick for a uniform Yoruba language of the 1400s) translates simply as:

“Oyo ri Oba” (in writing) and “Oyo r’Oba” (orally).

Cheers!

Cc: LegendHero, SuperBold, illicit, SouthNigerian, SaintBeehot, gomojam, DenreleDave, reallest, TimeManager, RuggedSniper, Ihateniggov, HedwigesMaduro, haffaze777, googi

I am enlightened. Thanks for this.

nisai:
I am enlightened. Thanks for this.

You are welcome brother.

TAO11:
I’d try.

This would get technical, but I trust that you would be able to follow through.


In the light of my earlier comment, the popular idea that the name “Yoruba” originated from some alleged derogatory remark by Sultan Bello - blah-blah - actually has no leg to stand on.

The name “Yoruba” (in reference to Yoruba-speaking peoples) is evidently more antique than the first Fulani emirate in our region. This is evident from the 1600s Timbuktu writings which makes reference to this name.

As has been shown, the name “Yoruba” (in reference to the Yoruba-speaking peoples) predates the 1600s — to have been a well-known pre-existing name in as far as Mali since the early 1600s.

Now, given these two backgrounds, namely: 1) the false-exogeneity of this name, and 2) its considerable antiquity; it logically follows then that any attempt at its etymological components need not be a 100% certainty — and that is okay for an antique name from a pre-literate society.

In fact, many literate cultures do not have a 100% certainty whatsoever as per the etymological components of their “groups’ names”, and that’s okay too. These names are also antique — e.g. “London”, “Japan”, amongst innumerable others.

The fairest possible original one may then arrive at for the present-day indigenous name, “Yoruba”, is via one or both of the following approaches:

1) A careful consideration of the syllabic-components of the present-day name in the light of the relevant historical and linguistic realities.

2) An examination of what the received traditions have to say regarding the etymology of the name — if any such received traditions on its etymology exist.

Starting with the second:
Actually, some received traditions exist regarding the etymological components of the name “Yoruba”.

The Reverend Samuel Ajayi Crowther, in the 1800s, collected a tradition from among the Egbas which says that an earlier phrase from which this name arises is the phrase: “Ori Obba”.

I am yet to lay my hands on the material itself. I got this from a secondary source which has proven to me to be 100% trustworthy.

I am thus not yet able to access any further remark he may have passed regarding this account which he got from the Egbas.


Regarding the first:
I have to begin with a disclaimer. I do not claim to have originally come up with this observation.

However, I did expound it beyond the very cursory highlight penned by its author — the columnist, Farouk Martins Omo Aresa.

In the name “Yoruba”, Omo Aresa spotted the basic components: Oyo & Oba — “OYO-OBA, OYO-ROBA, OYO-RUBA”.

He remarked briefly on how this flows from Yoruba “orikis”, and he expressed a subtle regret on how this has gone unnoticed by many.

Now, I find this view to be highly explanatory not merely because of those two components.

Rather, those two components fit very nicely into the relevant historical and linguistic realities.

Firstly, the phrase: “Oyo is the King” (in the sense of Oyo as the new sheriff in town) fits nicely with the fact that “Oyo” was the core Yoruba polity which succeeded Ife after Ife’s military and commercial decline in the early/mid-1400s.

~ Robin Horton, (1979), p. 141.

The phrase “Oyo is the King” is thus rooted in an endogenous Oyo attitude which must have begun as early as the late-1400s following Ife’s decline as the Yoruba power in the Guinea Forest from the early/mid-1400s.

Secondly, this phrase: “Oyo is the King” apparently continued when Oyo embarked on actual imperial programs (which gradually saw the Alaafin of Oyo as the proud overlord over other kingdoms too) right after the successful return of the capital from Oyo-Igboho back to Oyo-Ile in the late 1500s.

Thirdly, having began to dominate other Yoruba kingdoms from the late-1500s; the phrase “Oyo is the king” must therefore have taken the shape of a proper appellation which is now no longer restricted only to the Oyo-subgroup of the Yoruba group.

This explains Ahmad Baba’s reference to the name “Yoruba” (as a group’s name — rather than a fraction of a group) in the year 1615. His reference indicates a well-known pre-existing group name.

This also explains why (in the early 1800s) many former Oyo tributaries (after their independence from Oyo) initially refused to re-adopt this apparently ‘hegemonic’ group name.

Fourthly, turning to the linguistic angle; it may seem unrealistic that a Yoruba translation of the phrase, “Oyo is the King”, would come any close to the name “Yoruba”.

Yes, without a careful and deep consideration, the translation “Oyo ni Oba” is all one would get from the phrase: “Oyo is the King”.

And that doesn't seem anywhere close to the name “Yoruba” — especially considering the fact that “ni” is the Yoruba equivalent of the English word “is”.

So, while the historical side appears consistent all along so far; the linguistic angle seems to suggest a grave hole which demolishes this explanation.

But as will soon be seen, there is actually no linguistic hole at all in this explanation.

Fifthly, the translation of the word “is” (in the phrase: “Oyo is the king” ) as “ni” (in Yoruba language) actually ignores a key fact.

This translation ignores the fact that the present-day Yoruba equivalent of “is” (which is “ni“ ) was not unchanging over the centuries up till present-day.

For example, the (1800s) writings of Rev. Samuel Crowther shows the word “li” to be a Yoruba equivalent of the English word “is” in the 1800s.

In the light of this 1800s fact, the phrase: “Oyo is the King” would have been translated as “Oyo li Oba” using the 1800s’ realities.

If this was the evolving reality between the 1800s and now; what then would have been the Yoruba equivalent of “is” in the actual period of our interest — i.e. the 1400s and the 1500s??

To delve into this distant past of our language, recourse has to be made to an established fact in linguistic analysis, which is that:

(1) The present differentiated dialects of a language were actually more undifferentiated and more uniform the farther back in time you go.

In specific terms, all the present-day dialectal differentiations of the Yoruba language were actually more undifferentiated 100 years ago. And they are even more undifferentiated 200 years ago, and so forth into the past.

This linguistic fact would soon prove to be very useful for our deconstruction and regress.

(2) In addition to the foregoing linguistic fact, another observation among present-day Yoruba dialects which would also prove very useful is the fact that some Yoruba dialects have proven very, very stable over time.

These relatively stable dialects are those which must be resorted to in order to reasonably unravel what the Yoruba language must have uniformly sounded like many centuries ago.

These ‘stable’ dialects are found along the southern, eastern and south-eastern Yoruba frontiers. To be very precise, some of them are the Ijebu and the Itsekiri dialects of the Yoruba language, among others in the region.

This is well-known to linguists, but to spotlight some instances of this fact; some Yoruba words are alive till date among all Yorubas, but only in usage — their meanings have generally been lost to time.

However, these words are preserved intact till date in both usage and meaning in the Ijebu dialect for example.

The Yoruba word ”Ùwà”, as in “Alaiyeluwa”, is an example in this regard. It is a considerably antique Yoruba word.

Another category are Yoruba words whose usage are generally lost and even replaced by other words — but only remembered to have once been in use.

The Yoruba word “Olùkù” which has been completely replaced by another word (though remembered to have once been in use) is an example in this regard.

This word is still alive in meaning and in everyday usage in the Ijebu dialect of the Yoruba language.

These among some more technical reasons explains the resort to the Ijebu dialect in an attempt to establish what a more uniform and undifferentiated Yoruba language would have sounded like many centuries ago.

In the light of this approach, the phrase “Oyo is the King” in the Ijebu dialect (which is our dialectal yardstick for a uniform Yoruba language of the 1400s) translates simply as:

“Oyo ri Oba” (in writing) and “Oyo r’Oba” (orally).

Cheers!

Cc: LegendHero, SuperBold, illicit, SouthNigerian, SaintBeehot, gomojam, DenreleDave, reallest, TimeManager, RuggedSniper, Ihateniggov, HedwigesMaduro, haffaze777, googi

Thanks for this clear and forward explanation of the word Yoruba, I really appreciate your good works and can't thank you enough for this well detailed explanation, pls permit me to keep a copy of it for my yet unborn kids.

Yoruba was got from OYo'oba (Oyo ori Oba). It has no meaning in any other language except Yoruba language. Some foreigners who couldn't pronounce the word 'Yooba' pronounced it as Yarba. Yooba name was coined by Oranmiyan of Ile Ife.

Also, there's nothing like Odu imale though. Odu is 16 in numbers. There's nothing like Odu imale in any of them. Why do some People like writing gibberish without facts though?

Imale was given by the Yoruba people to the people of Mali and it's not part of Odu I repeat. "Esin Mali" was coined because it came from Mali. Then, it was later corrupted to "male" since these Mali people were Mande. That was how it became esin "imale".

Esin imale (Islam) came in the 14 centuries while Oyo empire were trading with Mali. Some folks liked it since it's affiliated with polygamy. That was it.

So how then did it become Odu imale when there's nothing like such in the 16 Odu? Or how did the narrative of one monarch proclaiming to start it when it already started in the 14th century in Yoruba land before the monarch was even born? Didn't the stupid writer realise that when he was concocting the gibberish? It's like some people purposely dumb down their brain when writing these nonsensical gibberish. Lots of gibberish and fallacy written as a matter of fact 🙄

Speaking of polygamy, I don't think IFA says anything against polygamy, although there can be reason why Ifa tend to have things in two in the creation of Ile Ife 🤓. For example, Obatala and Oduduwa as one entity created Ile Ife. Olokun and Yemoja as one entity representing the water body. Eledumare also has his Ela which is his word. Anyways, I think anyone who wants to have a polygamous family should ensure the wives are not saddled in the same apartment to avoid conflict. Also, the man should have the means, be industrious and be responsible for everyone of his families. Not an irresponsible person who can't even feed one family yet wanting to have polygamous family. That's just btw.

That being said, there's no Odu imale in Ifa.

So many fallacies though. Where do I even start from? Lol. I don't know why some like writing gibberish without facts.

As I already said, Yoruba has no meaning in any other language except Yoruba language. Yoruba is simply Oyo'Oba (OYo Ori Oba). Some foreigners who couldn't pronounce the word, Yooba pronounced it as Yarba.

Secondly, there's no Odu imale in Ifa.

Also, the narrative of a monarch wanting to start Islam practice is gibberish. Didn't the writer even realise that it was already being practiced in the 14th century before the monarch was born? So why concoct such unintelligible gibberish? That was why I asked if some people purposely dumb down their brain while writing gibberish. Esin imale (Islam) came in the 14 centuries while Oyo empire were trading with Mali as the name depict (imale). Some folks liked it since it's affiliated with polygamy. That was it. Btw, polygamy has nothing to do with religion.

Thirdly, while I can't say if the Yoruba at the time had began to write a little or not because Oranmiyan staff has letters on it for example, so we can't really say and let's not forget that IFA is also about calculation📌 However, the Yoruba at that time were mostly focussed on creative arts such as, copper arts, brass art, drawing & painting, metal works and iron smelting, musical instruments, agriculture, beads and ornaments, clothing e.g aso oke etc. These were the things they were trading 💤

Fourthly, the best thing would have been to ensure the Yoruba write in their own Yoruba language, not try to make them write Yoruba in a different language. Good thing the Yoruba didn't tow that horrible line back then but eventually wrote in their own Yoruba language/words, not in ajami script. One of the mistakes which the North Africans made back then 😑

Fifthly, It was Oba Adesimbo Tunwase who established ojude Oba where everyone pay homage to the king. it's always existed irrespective of the name 📍

Sixthly , there's no Odu imale in Ifa.

Islam is one, with one prophet.

The same one practice in Afghanistan is a reincarnation of the one practised by Mohammed in the desert.

The one is UAE is a watered down artificial Islam for economic benefits

so you mean killing and burning people who do not believe in your religion is the best one from Mohammed?
You mean, women wearing like masquerade, covering their heads down to their toes where they burn inside and smell like rat practices better Muslim?
You guys need emancipation and bring love part of Muslim like UAE, DUBIA etc and not like northern Nigeria please.