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What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? - Culture - Nairaland

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What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 8:13am On Feb 10
So this is an opinion I have been meaning to share for months now with people here interested in this kind of stuff (which usually is just ChinenyeN, lol). But I realized it would probably take a very lengthy post to argue my points; and I was just too lazy and also a little too pre-occupied with other stuff to get into it.

Anyway, here I'll just lay out the skeleton, and fleshen it up with time if need be.

The Current Theories of Igbo Dispersion

The current opinion in mainstream academia is that the ancestors of the Igbo (after separating from their linguistic brethren in the Niger-Benue Confluence area) first occupied the Northern Igbo Plateau which runs from Nsukka southeastwards to Okigwe: the so-called Nsukka-Okigwe cuesta. It was later (goes the theory) that Igbo-speaking colonists from this plateau poured into the surrounding lowlands.

I see this theory as just a small modification of an earlier theory which fingered the Awka-Orlu upland area as the homeland/urheimat of the Igbo-speaking peoples. Both theories (Awka-Orlu and Nsukka-Okigwe) appear to base their argument on (i) high population density (which suggests to the scholars that humans have been in those areas for a very long time), and (ii) the fact that many groups on the plateau have no traditions of migrating from anywhere more than a few kilometres from where they are now found (which, again, suggests that they've been there for a long time).

The Nsukka-Okigwe theory was undoubtedly influenced (as can be seen in the works of Afigbo) by the fact that the Niger-Benue confluence zone is believed to be the point of dispersion for the ancestors of the Igboid, the Edoid, the Idomoid, the Yoruboid, the Akokoid, the Nupoid and other related groups. Striking south from there, the proto-Igboid would reach Nsukka before they got to Owerri or Mbaise. It all makes sense. It's all logical.

But I don't think it's likely.

First. Dense populations and groups with no stories of migration from more than a few kilometres of where they are now found (or no stories of migration, period) are also found outside the Northern Igbo Plateau.

Second. While the Niger-Benue confluence area may be the ultimate urheimat for the languages belonging to the West Benue-Congo family (a family to which Igbo belongs), it looks very likely to me that the urheimat of the YEAI subfamily (the subfamily that the Igbo share with the Yoruba, the Edo and the Akoko) lies outside the confluence area, to the southwest, on the northern borderlands of Ondo and Edo States.

If my theory is right, and the journey of our proto-Igbo ancestors started directly from the Ondo-Edo borderlands, then one can no longer assume a simple southward drift that brought them to the Nsukka-Okigwe cuesta.

The Possibility of the Edo/Ondo Northern Borderlands as the Urheimat of the YEAI Languages

In historical linguistics, the area with the highest linguistic diversity within a language group is often seen as the best candidate for the area where the language group first developed. Take Afro-Asiatic for example. The Afro-Asiatic language group has about 5 or 6 linguistic branches: Chadic, Berber, Ancient Egyptian (extinct), Cushitic, Semitic. All but one of the branches are spoken exclusively in Africa, and only one (Semitic) is spoken in Asia. Thus Afro-Asiatic has its greatest linguistic diversity in Africa, suggesting it developed there first and was carried into Western Asia by immigrants from the African continent.

Also, imagine that no one knew anything about the history of Western Europe or how North America got settled. Non-linguists would probably think English developed in America, with its large number of native English speakers and America's influence around the world. But the linguists would have discerned that all the close relatives of English (i.e., the West Germanic languages) including dialects of English itself are spoken in a small area embracing the British islands and neighbouring areas on the European continent, i.e., the greatest linguistic diversity by far for the language family to which English belongs is observed only in a small part of Western Europe. So that without the benefit of written history, linguistics would still have correctly guessed that English was imported into America from a specific part of Western Europe.

This can be applied to the YEAI languages...

And when one tries to locate the most linguistically diverse area within the YEAI-speaking space, there is only one candidate: the Edo-Ondo border area, in the Kukuruku-Akoko hills area. Mutually unintelligible branches of Akokoid are spoken side by side there in a very small area. Plus two Benue-Congo languages with unclear classification. Yoruba dialects and Edoid languages are also spoken there. All in a small area covering just (I believe) two local government areas. Even if one factors in latter-day 'linguistic imperialism' of Yoruba in the area, the diversity in the area is still remarkable and quite unmatched anywhere else in the YEAI-speaking space.

It's logical (to me) to look for the originators of the proto-Igboid language in that general area.

From this homeland, Proto-Igboid either struck directly eastward or initally drifted south and then entered the east at the head of the Niger Delta, gaining southern Igboland first. [I will quickly point out that two other YEAI languages belonging to the Edoid branch, who are neighbours of the southern Igbo (Engenni and Degema) entered the region in more recent times through this "south, and then east" route.

Entry into Igboland

My first encounter with a theory that Igbo-speakers first settled the south of Igboland before their dispersal was in a master's dissertation on the Abam people by one Mr Okoko sunmitted to UNN's history department in 1996. The researcher, using the same 'linguistic diversity angle, wrote: "Following the principle of homeland location which states that the area which maintains the most distinctly related languages is likely to be the homeland. [...] after comparison, I inferred that the probable homeland of the Igbo speakers would be around Ekpeye in Ahoada LGA of Rivers State."

About Ekpeye's immediate neighbours to the east, the linguist Professor Williamson writes: " I also found that the agreed dialects of Ikwere also scored much lower [i.e., has fewer cognates, or were more diverse] with each other than did the dialects of Igbo with each other, suggesting that Ikwere was a less closely knit language [i.e., a more diverse language] than Igbo."

Get this: According to Williamson, Ikwere alone shows more diversity than the rest of the Igbo family put together.

If Okoko and Williamson are right, then on linguistic diversity grounds alone, academia should at least give serious consideration to the suggestion that the proto-Igboid could have entered Igboland from the south.

But there's another reason why I suspect an entry from the south; and that is that proto-Igboid appears to have had a considerable number of loanwords borrowed from the Lower Cross family. Given the spatial distribution of the languages in the Lower Cross family, the interactions that led to these borrowings are more likely to have occurred in the south than in the north. And given that these loanwords are found in virtually all dialects of Igbo including those with no historical interactions with Lower Cross speakers, we cannot ascribe them to latter-day interactions.

One example: the word for canoe/boat in all dialects of Igbo known to me is 'ụgbọ'. It is not cognate with the word for canoe in the other YEAI languages (where it is ọkọ or cognates of ọkọ), but it is cognate with the proto-Lower Cross for canoe, which is ubom. (It is interesting that the verb for paddling in Igbo is still kwọ or related words which are related to ọkọ.)

Another example: the word for vulture in virtually all the dialects of Igbo known to me is udene/udele/odele. It is not cognate with the words for vulture in the other YEAI languages (where the words for vulture has a 'gu' root), but it is cognate with the proto-Lower Cross, which is utere. [Interestingly, again, some dialects of Igbo have preserved a name for vulture which appears to have a 'gu' root: ọbịa ngwu.]

There are indeed a whole group of words for which the Igbo forms are closer to Lower Cross forms than to forms used in the other YEAI languages; and while they may not all be Lower Cross loans, they at least point to a very early interaction between the originators of Proto-Igboid and the speakers of early versions of the modern Lower Cross languages. An interaction that more probably happened in the south than in the north.

To put my thought simply, the direct ancestor of all the Igboid languages/dialects probably arose from the interaction between dialects first developed around Akoko-Kukuruku hills on the Ondo-Edo borderlands and dialects of the Lower Cross family spoken near the present location of Southern Igboland.

[PS: if this is a bit messy, it's probably because I wrote it in something of a hurry, being already late for work. grin]
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by letu(m): 2:31pm On Feb 10
AjaanaOka:
So this is an opinion I have been meaning to share for months now with people here interested in this kind of stuff (which usually is just ChinenyeN, lol). But I realized it would probably take a very lengthy post to argue my points; and I was just too lazy and also a little too pre-occupied with other stuff to get into it.

Anyway, here I'll just lay out the skeleton, and fleshen it up with time if need be.

The Current Theories of Igbo Dispersion

The current opinion in mainstream academia is that the ancestors of the Igbo (after separating from their linguistic brethren in the Niger-Benue Confluence area) first occupied the Northern Igbo Plateau which runs from Nsukka southeastwards to Okigwe: the so-called Nsukka-Okigwe cuesta. It was later (goes the theory) that Igbo-speaking colonists from this plateau poured into the surrounding lowlands.

I see this theory as just a small modification of an earlier theory which fingered the Awka-Orlu upland area as the homeland/urheimat of the Igbo-speaking peoples. Both theories (Awka-Orlu and Nsukka-Okigwe) appear to base their argument on (i) high population density (which suggests to the scholars that humans have been in those areas for a very long time), and (ii) the fact that many groups on the plateau have no traditions of migrating from anywhere more than a few kilometres from where they are now found (which, again, suggests that they've been there for a long time).

The Nsukka-Okigwe theory was undoubtedly influenced (as can be seen in the works of Afigbo) by the fact that the Niger-Benue confluence zone is believed to be the point of dispersion for the ancestors of the Igboid, the Edoid, the Idomoid, the Yoruboid, the Akokoid, the Nupoid and other related groups. Striking south from there, the proto-Igboid would reach Nsukka before they got to Owerri or Mbaise. It all makes sense. It's all logical.

But I don't think it's likely.

First. Dense populations and groups with no stories of migration from more than a few kilometres of where they are now found (or no stories of migration, period) are also found outside the Northern Igbo Plateau.

Second. While the Niger-Benue confluence area may be the ultimate urheimat for the languages belonging to the West Benue-Congo family (a family to which Igbo belongs), it looks very likely to me that the urheimat of the YEAI subfamily (the subfamily that the Igbo share with the Yoruba, the Edo and the Akoko) lies outside the confluence area, to the southwest, on the northern borderlands of Ondo and Edo States.

If my theory is right, and the journey of our proto-Igbo ancestors started directly from the Ondo-Edo borderlands, then one can no longer assume a simple southward drift that brought them to the Nsukka-Okigwe cuesta.

The Possibility of the Edo/Ondo Northern Borderlands as the Urheimat of the YEAI Languages

In historical linguistics, the area with the highest linguistic diversity within a language group is often seen as the best candidate for the area where the language group first developed. Take Afro-Asiatic for example. The Afro-Asiatic language group has about 5 or 6 linguistic branches: Chadic, Berber, Ancient Egyptian (extinct), Cushitic, Semitic. All but one of the branches are spoken exclusively in Africa, and only one (Semitic) is spoken in Asia. Thus Afro-Asiatic has its greatest linguistic diversity in Africa, suggesting it developed there first and was carried into Western Asia by immigrants from the African continent.

Also, imagine that no one knew anything about the history of Western Europe or how North America got settled. Non-linguists would probably think English developed in America, with its large number of native English speakers and America's influence around the world. But the linguists would have discerned that all the close relatives of English (i.e., the West Germanic languages) including dialects of English itself are spoken in a small area embracing the British islands and neighbouring areas on the European continent, i.e., the greatest linguistic diversity by far for the language family to which English belongs is observed only in a small part of Western Europe. So that without the benefit of written history, linguistics would still have correctly guessed that English was imported into America from a specific part of Western Europe.

This can be applied to the YEAI languages...

And when one tries to locate the most linguistically diverse area within the YEAI-speaking space, there is only one candidate: the Edo-Ondo border area, in the Kukuruku-Akoko hills area. Mutually unintelligible branches of Akokoid are spoken side by side there in a very small area. Plus two Benue-Congo languages with unclear classification. Yoruba dialects and Edoid languages are also spoken there. All in a small area covering just (I believe) two local government areas. Even if one factors in latter-day 'linguistic imperialism' of Yoruba in the area, the diversity in the area is still remarkable and quite unmatched anywhere else in the YEAI-speaking space.

It's logical (to me) to look for the originators of the proto-Igboid language in that general area.

From this homeland, Proto-Igboid either struck directly eastward or initally drifted south and then entered the east at the head of the Niger Delta, gaining southern Igboland first. [I will quickly point out that two other YEAI languages belonging to the Edoid branch, who are neighbours of the southern Igbo (Engenni and Degema) entered the region in more recent times through this "south, and then east" route.

Entry into Igboland

My first encounter with a theory that Igbo-speakers first settled the south of Igboland before their dispersal was in a master's dissertation on the Abam people by one Mr Okoko sunmitted to UNN's history department in 1996. The researcher, using the same 'linguistic diversity angle, wrote: "Following the principle of homeland location which states that the area which maintains the most distinctly related languages is likely to be the homeland. [...] after comparison, I inferred that the probable homeland of the Igbo speakers would be around Ekpeye in Ahoada LGA of Rivers State."

About Ekpeye's immediate neighbours to the east, the linguist Professor Williamson writes: " I also found that the agreed dialects of Ikwere also scored much lower [i.e., has fewer cognates, or were more diverse] with each other than did the dialects of Igbo with each other, suggesting that Ikwere was a less closely knit language [i.e., a more diverse language] than Igbo."

Get this: According to Williamson, Ikwere alone shows more diversity than the rest of the Igbo family put together.

If Okoko and Williamson are right, then on linguistic diversity grounds alone, academia should at least give serious consideration to the suggestion that the proto-Igboid could have entered Igboland from the south.

But there's another reason why I suspect an entry from the south; and that is that proto-Igboid appears to have had a considerable number of loanwords borrowed from the Lower Cross family. Given the spatial distribution of the languages in the Lower Cross family, the interactions that led to these borrowings are more likely to have occurred in the south than in the north. And given that these loanwords are found in virtually all dialects of Igbo including those with no historical interactions with Lower Cross speakers, we cannot ascribe them to latter-day interactions.

One example: the word for canoe/boat in all dialects of Igbo known to me is 'ụgbọ'. It is not cognate with the word for canoe in the other YEAI languages (where it is ọkọ or cognates of ọkọ), but it is cognate with the proto-Lower Cross for canoe, which is ubom. (It is interesting that the verb for paddling in Igbo is still kwọ or related words which are related to ọkọ.)

Another example: the word for vulture in virtually all the dialects of Igbo known to me is udene/udele/odele. It is not cognate with the words for vulture in the other YEAI languages (where the words for vulture has a 'gu' root), but it is cognate with the proto-Lower Cross, which is utere. [Interestingly, again, some dialects of Igbo have preserved a name for vulture which appears to have a 'gu' root: ọbịa ngwu.]

There are indeed a whole group of words for which the Igbo forms are closer to Lower Cross forms than to forms used in the other YEAI languages; and while they may not all be Lower Cross loans, they at least point to a very early interaction between the originators of Proto-Igboid and the speakers of early versions of the modern Lower Cross languages. An interaction that more probably happened in the south than in the north.

To put my thought simply, the direct ancestor of all the Igboid languages/dialects probably arose from the interaction between dialects first developed around Akoko-Kukuruku hills on the Ondo-Edo borderlands and dialects of the Lower Cross family spoken near the present location of Southern Igboland.

[PS: if this is a bit messy, it's probably because I wrote it in something of a hurry, being already late for work. grin]


Nice, it is understandable from the fact that you presented well it is quite possible that the origin of proto Igbo's is as a result of migration from north and another migration from south inwhich they will end up meeting each other and then intermixed together.

Again this proto Igbo's appears to have names that speaks of who they are,

1) Ndi Ushi/Eshi or Ehi.https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=111858363840588&story_fbid=112161093810315

2) Ndi Oru : Here it seems like all or almost the rivers in Igbo land has a thing with Oru, I might be right or wrong here because inasmuch as the Oru people are know as people of river, it also appears that not only Igbo cultures within Imo State knows about Oru + waters thing but also Igbo cultures within Anambara State and it's likely to be the same in other States like Abia, Enugwu and Ebonyi State. I'm thinking that this Oru + water thing in Igbo culture have to do with
*) Spirituality
And
*) Philosophical concepts.http://afaraka..com/2018/08/the-mother-of-universe-isi-mmiri.html?m=1

3) Umu Ele or El : well here l think this article/site have some interesting explanation concerning Umu Ele or El.https://www.google.com/amp/s/newafrikan77./2016/12/16/ugwuele-the-ancient-shrine-of-isi-ume-the-origin-of-humankind-igbo-and-the-worship-of-the-great-mother-nnem-chukwu/amp/.

4) Umudiana : https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2013/08/11/essay-the-politics-of-igbo-origin-and-culture/amp/.

Well another thing is that you have to watch out for them because the reason they are yet to unleash their disagreement on you is that they're busy sharping their weapons just watch out for them, very soon they will come for your head for making such suggestions/claimed instead of the proto Igbo origin that they prefer to be the one and only for all Igbo people grin grin grin grin grin like I said they're coming but I did not mention any names well AjaanaOka I believe that you already know the people that I'm talking about, infact they just pass my compound with their white hilux bus grin grin grin grin grin.
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Hellraiser77: 7:42pm On Feb 10
The Op's theory is sound logically and based on available evidence i had arrived at the same conclusion after rigorous evidence based research, However it doesn't cover the entirety of the population that is today known as Igbo, it more precisely explains the long forgotten and ancient history of southern Igboland populations.

My position which is similar to yours and which was arrived at through rigorous and extensive examination is this:-

1- What is today know as Igbo people Moved southwards from an area close to the Niger-benue confluence for whatever reason but most likely to seek out new lands as the continued drying of the Sahara area which used to be a very vast lush green area pushed early Sahara human populations southwards, This was very early maybe up to 8000BC.

2-This early proto-igbo southward movement spanned hundreds of years and was very scattered, most went southwards towards today's northern Igboland Others followed a more south Westerly direction into what is today an area covering parts of modern Osun, ekiti, ondo and ondo states later to be Joined by Edoid peoples and the ethnicities that exist under the yoruba umbrella name today, some of them moved again through the direction The OP presented and finally settled at the southern part of the Igboland.

3-This includes southern igboland populations as well as the Ogba, ekpeye, And the ikwerre that being why I don't totally laugh ikwerre out of court when they say their ancestors came from Edo.(the Onitsha and most Igbos west of the Niger river fall into this category too)

4-Some of this proto-igbo people of modern day south western Nigeria was resident in what is today known as ile-ife they called it "Omoku" before some modern day yoruba ancestors arrived and blended the whole gene pool of the area into what it is today(The principal town of the Ogba people of rivers state is still called "Omoku" today"

To put in simpler terms all Igbos originated from a single source around 8000bc around the area where the Niger and Benue rivers met, But arrived from different directions to what is today modern Igboland this influx was also separated by vast expanses of time


Note----- Any Insecure low esteem yoruba person that enters my mention will be dealt with.....I NO GET FILTER O cheesy cheesy
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Casham: 8:48pm On Feb 10
So it's true that the Igbo and Yoruba are very much related. I first read about this in a book by Catherine Acholonu-Olumba and Prince Ajay Prabhakar: The Gram Code Of African Adam (stone books and cave libraries). They have quite a different theory though. But the bottomline is that the Yoruba-Igbo-Edo triangle is not a recent union. Very interesting book.

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Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by YungMillionaire: 2:03am On Feb 11
Casham:
So it's true that the Igbo and Yoruba are very much related. I first read about this in a book by Catherine Acholonu-Olumba and Prince Ajay Prabhakar: The Gram Code Of African Adam (stone books and cave libraries). They have quite a different theory though. But the bottomline is that the Yoruba-Igbo-Edo triangle is not a recent union. Very interesting book.

Of course Yoruba-Igbos-Igalas are related but because of politics, this is a taboo subject.

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 7:01am On Feb 11
letu:


2) Ndi Oru : Here it seems like all or almost the rivers in Igbo land has a thing with Oru, I might be right or wrong here because inasmuch as the Oru people are know as people of river, it also appears that not only Igbo cultures within Imo State knows about Oru + waters thing but also Igbo cultures within Anambara State and it's likely to be the same in other States like Abia, Enugwu and Ebonyi State. I'm thinking that this Oru + water thing in Igbo culture have to do with
*) Spirituality
And
*) Philosophical concepts.http://afaraka..com/2018/08/the-mother-of-universe-isi-mmiri.html?m=1


I believe Oru/Olu to be restricted to communities near the River Niger and its tributaries (like the Omambala, the Orashi, etc.). Thus it's very unlikely that there are communities in Abia and Ebonyi where you'd hear of Oru, those areas being just too far from the Niger. Interestingly, Ijaw and Igala people who are close to the Niger are also described as Oru; the term doesn't appear to be exclusive to the Igbo.

3) Umu Ele or El : well here l think this article/site have some interesting explanation concerning Umu Ele or El.https://www.google.com/amp/s/newafrikan77./2016/12/16/ugwuele-the-ancient-shrine-of-isi-ume-the-origin-of-humankind-igbo-and-the-worship-of-the-great-mother-nnem-chukwu/amp/.


This link doesn't seem to be working. I am not very familiar with the term Umuele or what it refers to. I'll look it up.[/quote]

4) Umudiana : https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2013/08/11/essay-the-politics-of-igbo-origin-and-culture/amp/.

Well another thing is that you have to watch out for them because the reason they are yet to unleash their disagreement on you is that they're busy sharping their weapons just watch out for them, very soon they will come for your head for making such suggestions/claimed instead of the proto Igbo origin that they prefer to be the one and only for all Igbo people grin grin grin grin grin like I said they're coming but I did not mention any names well AjaanaOka I believe that you already know the people that I'm talking about, infact they just pass my compound with their white hilux bus grin grin grin grin grin.

Loool.
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 7:10am On Feb 11
Hellraiser77:


4-Some of this proto-igbo people of modern day south western Nigeria was resident in what is today known as ile-ife they called it "Omoku" before some modern day yoruba ancestors arrived and blended the whole gene pool of the area into what it is today(The principal town of the Ogba people of rivers state is still called "Omoku" today"


This "Omoku" part is entirely news to me. Are you suggesting there was an aboriginal group at present-day Ife who knew the area as Omoku, before the town became Yoruba? Is there a paper or an article written on this that I can access?
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Abagworo(m): 8:53am On Feb 11
In Ekpeye recently revised history the author a friend whom I suspect is the OP insinuated that the language we call Igbo today is a blend of original Ekpeye and original Igbo with Ikwerre, Ogba, Owerri, Etche, Ohaji all the way to parts of Mbaise and Mbaitoli up to Umunoha still speaking Ekpeye up till 1700. My own research shows a clear relationship between Ekpeye and Arochukwu, Abiriba, Abam and Ohafia. However I believe Ekpeye must have originated from Crossriver area like Abiriba and others but moved down South earlier rather than others originating from there. When you also investigate tales of origin of Ohafia, Igbere and Edda you will notice mention of Ndoni and in the case of Igbere you hear Okomoko. Infact Igbere is Ebiri Okomoko and Okomoko still exists in present day Etche in Rivers State.

Some people likely Igala speaking emerged from the Anambra river and also mixed with older Igbo communities rooted in Awka and Amaigbo. I've tried to link the Amaigbo and Awka people with migration but that has proven impossible meaning the Igbo core is from that area between Amaigbo and Awka and they were the ones who spread down to Orlu, Owerri, Okigwe, Umuahia, Isuikwuato, Nkanu, Awgu and every other area in Igbo heartland.

The parts of Igbo that spoke Ekpeye in the past considered other present Igbos as Isoma and still believe they speak different language till date without realizing that they now speak same language as the Isoma due to age long interactions. They also practiced waist dance whereas the Isoma part don't. They lived more nucleated whereas the Isomas lived more dispersed.

The present day Igbo comprise of migrations, remigrations, assimilations, intermarriage and hosting of peoples with different origins with exception of the Amaigbo-Awka axis wheareas the language is also a mix of all. The languages spoken in Awka and Amaigbo today are no longer as pure as they were 300 years ago but they in addition to Ekpeye contributed to the modern day central Igbo language.

NB Ekpeye claims they were moving into Igboland in the past to interact with the people there and exchange knowledge and goods. For example they introduced the 4 market days to Nri and after reading the Nri version of how the 4 market days came about you can't help but accept it.

https://societyofigboprofessionals.org/origin-of-market-days-in-igbo/amp/

I feel a new study needs to be done about Igbo ethnic group as a whole with considerations of possible movement from Delta State to the East, Rivers State to the North and Crossriver State to the West instead of the general belief of Benue/Kogi to South.
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 7:40pm On Feb 11
Abagworo:
In Ekpeye recently revised history the author a friend whom I suspect is the OP insinuated that the language we call Igbo today is a blend of original Ekpeye and original Igbo with Ikwerre, Ogba, Owerri, Etche, Ohaji all the way to parts of Mbaise and Mbaitoli up to Umunoha still speaking Ekpeye up till 1700.


This author is most definitely not me. But I'll be interested in reading what they had to say. Although, if they wrote that Igbo is a blend of 'original Ekpeye', etc etc, I'll probably disagree.

My own research shows a clear relationship between Ekpeye and Arochukwu, Abiriba, Abam and Ohafia. However I believe Ekpeye must have originated from Crossriver area like Abiriba and others but moved down South earlier rather than others originating from there.


Ekpeye migrating from the Cross River area is a speculation I've heard too often, but besides the use of Ebiriukpabi and the presence of a place-name like Ebiriba, I really do not see much going for this theory. There's no reason these couldn't have been the result of latter-day movements and relations.

On a linguistic level, it is a hard argument to make. Ekpeye separated from the Igboid stock at such an early age that any connections with Abiriba, Arochukwu, etc cannot be dated back to the 'foundation' of an Ekpeye linguistic stock.

... the Igbo core is from that area between Amaigbo and Awka and they were the ones who spread down to Orlu, Owerri, Okigwe, Umuahia, Isuikwuato, Nkanu, Awgu and every other area in Igbo heartland.

This sounds so much like the old Awka-Orlu uplands origin theory of G I Jones and others. I certainly agree that this was an important point of dispersion for the Igbo sub-ethnicity known as the Isu. But as the urheimat of the Igbo-speaking family, I do not think there is any real debate, archaeological or linguistic or even 'oral-traditional' that can be advanced for this.

I feel a new study needs to be done about Igbo ethnic group as a whole with considerations of possible movement from Delta State to the East, Rivers State to the North and Crossriver State to the West instead of the general belief of Benue/Kogi to South.


Indeed, I agree there was a criss-crossing of movements, this way and that, in precolonial Igboland.
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by IDENNAA(m): 11:23pm On Feb 11
What a thougnt provoking write up on Igbo patterns of migration.

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by letu(m): 5:31pm On Feb 12
AjaanaOka:


This "Omoku" part is entirely news to me. Are you suggesting there was an aboriginal group at present-day Ife who knew the area as Omoku, before the town became Yoruba? Is there a paper or an article written on this that I can access?
I came across some interesting stuff in a book know as the return of the black lord written by Nenad Michael Djurdjevic.

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Hellraiser77: 8:40pm On Feb 13
AjaanaOka:


This "Omoku" part is entirely news to me. Are you suggesting there was an aboriginal group at present-day Ife who knew the area as Omoku, before the town became Yoruba? Is there a paper or an article written on this that I can access?
Taken from 'Arts in ancient Ife, Birthplace of Yoruba by Suzzane Preston blier" Ancient Igbo populations in Ife shouldn't be news to anybody with interest in the deep history of ancient tribes of West Africa


I have hundreds of other articles and evidences But since you are already a history enthusiast and Igbo I ll let you put it together yourself just focus on the Obatala Era or the pre-oduduwa era of Ife history it's very clear that Igbos were aboriginal in modern day yoruba land.....there is even genetic evidence to back this up, I can provide if you need

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Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 9:27pm On Feb 13
Hellraiser77:
Taken from 'Arts in ancient Ife, Birthplace of Yoruba by Suzzane Preston blier" Ancient Igbo populations in Ife shouldn't be news to anybody with interest in the deep history of ancient tribes of West Africa


I have hundreds of other articles and evidences But since you are already a history enthusiast and Igbo I ll let you put it together yourself just focus on the Obatala Era or the pre-oduduwa era of Ife history it's very clear that Igbos were aboriginal in modern day yoruba land.....there is even genetic evidence to back this up, I can provide if you need

The story of a pre-Oduduwa population in the Ife area known as "Igbo" is fairly well-known; and that wasn't what I was asking about. What I was seeking clarification on is the use of the word/place-name "Omoku" which I have never encountered being used in relation to Ife at any period in its history.
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Hellraiser77: 9:40pm On Feb 13
AjaanaOka:


The story of a pre-Oduduwa population in the Ife area known as "Igbo" is fairly well-known; and that wasn't what I was asking about. What I was seeking clarification on is the use of the word/place-name "Omoku" which I have never encountered being used in relation to Ife at any period in its history.
I'm a bit occupied currently, Arts in ancient Ife, Birthplace of Yoruba by Suzzane Preston blier it's was mentioned somewhere in this 1957 article, it's only sixteen pages go through it
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 5:39am On Feb 14
Hellraiser77:
I'm a bit occupied currently, Arts in ancient Ife, Birthplace of Yoruba by Suzzane Preston blier it's was mentioned somewhere in this 1957 article, it's only sixteen pages go through it

I guess you must be referring to the tradition that Ife in its earliest period was called Igbomokun (interpreted as 'the dawn belongs to the Igbo).
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Hellraiser77: 8:27am On Feb 14
AjaanaOka:


I guess you must be referring to the tradition that Ife in its earliest period was called Igbomokun (interpreted as 'the dawn belongs to the Igbo).
Yes, it would appear Obatala was after all an Igbo devine priest exactly like the type overseeing NRI, seen as a Divine ruler, had extensive mystical powers, yet abhored wars and conflicts to the amazement of this early yoruba settlers
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by macof(m): 3:27am On Feb 15
Hellraiser77:
Taken from 'Arts in ancient Ife, Birthplace of Yoruba by Suzzane Preston blier" Ancient Igbo populations in Ife shouldn't be news to anybody with interest in the deep history of ancient tribes of West Africa


I have hundreds of other articles and evidences But since you are already a history enthusiast and Igbo I ll let you put it together yourself just focus on the Obatala Era or the pre-oduduwa era of Ife history it's very clear that Igbos were aboriginal in modern day yoruba land.....there is even genetic evidence to back this up, I can provide if you need

Lol. I'm sure you know the people in this history of Ife are the Ugbo of Ilaje?

Also you spoke of an 8000 BC migration of Proto-igbo into the modern Ife area or something like that earlier(you weren't very coherent)
You do realise the Ugbo part of Ife history is very very recent in the grand scale of things? 12th - 14th century to be exact.
No way Proto-igbo left Ife 12th - 14th century if they were indeed in Ife before migrating South and then east according to you.

3 Likes

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by macof(m): 3:30am On Feb 15
AjaanaOka:


I guess you must be referring to the tradition that Ife in its earliest period was called Igbomokun (interpreted as 'the dawn belongs to the Igbo).
Interesting. Is this what "igbomokun" would be interpreted as in igbo language?

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by macof(m): 3:47am On Feb 15
AjaanaOka:


This "Omoku" part is entirely news to me. Are you suggesting there was an aboriginal group at present-day Ife who knew the area as Omoku, before the town became Yoruba? Is there a paper or an article written on this that I can access?

Appears more like a reference to the sea (oku)
-(Vowel)ku- is very well present in other Volta-Niger (or West Benue-congo as you like to call it) languages

There's also the Onoku deity (which is obviously connected to Yoruba Olókùn) in Ukwuani area of Delta state

The issue now is how does Omoku of Ogba have to do with Ife

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Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 6:09am On Feb 15
macof:

Interesting. Is this what "igbomokun" would be interpreted as in igbo language?

No. This is the interpretation given to it in the paper by Suzanne Blier that Hellraiser77 mentioned.
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 6:16am On Feb 15
macof:


Appears more like a reference to the sea (oku)
-(Vowel)ku- is very well present in other Volta-Niger (or West Benue-congo as you like to call it) languages

There's also the Onoku deity (which is obviously connected to Yoruba Olókùn) in Ukwuani area of Delta state

The issue now is how does Omoku of Ogba have to do with Ife

You know, I thought the -okun there would have something to do with the sea, but Blier ascribed a different interpretation to it.

Help me clarify something: was Igbomokun in ancient Ife, or was it somewhere towards the sea in the Ilaje area (as some people have said)?

Also, can you give some examples of -ku- words from other Volta-Niger languages that signify the sea? I would think that since the homeland of the Volta-Niger languages was far from the sea they wouldn't have a common word for sea.

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Hellraiser77: 1:59pm On Feb 15
macof:


Lol. I'm sure you know the people in this history of Ife are the Ugbo of Ilaje?

Also you spoke of an 8000 BC migration of Proto-igbo into the modern Ife area or something like that earlier(you weren't very coherent)
You do realise the Ugbo part of Ife history is very very recent in the grand scale of things? 12th - 14th century to be exact.
No way Proto-igbo left Ife 12th - 14th century if they were indeed in Ife before migrating South and then east according to you.
The Igbos/Ugbo of ilaje is just a tiny piece in a much grander puzzle of countless small settlements and polities that were aboriginal to the Ile-ife area before the arrival of Oduduwa and his followers, the current Ooni of Ife even called attention to this fact recently.

Call it ugbo or igbo, the fact is they were a very ancient group of fragmented settlements and small villages encompassing but not limited to the Ife area overseen by a highly revered priest/ruler called Obatala, the ilajes are just a tiny part of this Ife-igbos and no their history doesn't start around the 12th-14th centuries, that's just as far as any historian recalls

P:S- This does not in any way mean the Igbos of modern southeastern Nigeria originated from the Ife area
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Hellraiser77: 2:19pm On Feb 15
AjaanaOka:


You know, I thought the -okun there would have something to do with the sea, but Blier ascribed a different interpretation to it.

Help me clarify something: was Igbomokun in ancient Ife, or was it somewhere towards the sea in the Ilaje area (as some people have said)?

Also, can you give some examples of -ku- words from other Volta-Niger languages that signify the sea? I would think that since the homeland of the Volta-Niger languages was far from the sea they wouldn't have a common word for sea.
The question is does he know? even if he does, does it fit his favoured narrative? grin, Plenty "Igbos" from that era, but "Igbo ukwu" remained the grandest and most revered in many ways.

Also read this this article if you have the time "ANCIENT ILE-IFE: ANOTHER CULTURAL HISTORICAL REINTERPRETATION" from the journal of the historical society of Nigeria
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by macof(m): 2:22am On Feb 16
AjaanaOka:


You know, I thought the -okun there would have something to do with the sea, but Blier ascribed a different interpretation to it.

Help me clarify something: was Igbomokun in ancient Ife, or was it somewhere towards the sea in the Ilaje area (as some people have said)?

Also, can you give some examples of -ku- words from other Volta-Niger languages that signify the sea? I would think that since the homeland of the Volta-Niger languages was far from the sea they wouldn't have a common word for sea.
Oh I was actually referring to "omoku" the other guy spoke about.

About Ugbomokun, I personally believe it is an oriki that has to do with "strength" not a place name exactly. I'm not very familiar with the traditions at Ilaje but from what I've read and heard from both the Olugbo and others there's very little differences. One of the few seeming differences is that Ugbo claim all of Ife was called Ugbomokun but Ife say only a part of Ife was called Ugbo (that is Iwinrin). Both might be right especially if I'm accurate that Ugbomokun is an oriki. Because as far as Ugbo were concerned they had already pulled out of Ife and created their own system under Obamakin, so in their perspective, their Ife was now Ugbomokun

Just a theory to reconcile the narratives

-------
You find "Eku" in Nupe, "Okun" in Yoruba and there was the "Onoku" example from earlier.. This is what my earlier statement was based on, only alternative explanation I see is that it is a yoruboid factor that spread

You are right on us not expecting a common word for sea because of the homeland not being around the sea but they still would likely have had floods that they might associate with the sea
What is the igbo word for flood?

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by macof(m): 2:33am On Feb 16
Hellraiser77:
1. The Igbos/Ugbo of ilaje is just a tiny piece in a much grander puzzle of countless small settlements and polities that were aboriginal to the Ile-ife area before the arrival of Oduduwa and his followers, the current Ooni of Ife even called attention to this fact recently.

2. Call it ugbo or igbo, the fact is they were a very ancient group of fragmented settlements and small villages encompassing but not limited to the Ife area overseen by a highly revered priest/ruler called Obatala, the ilajes are just a tiny part of this Ife-igbos and no their history doesn't start around the 12th-14th centuries, that's just as far as any historian recalls

P:S- This does not in any way mean the Igbos of modern southeastern Nigeria originated from the Ife area

1. You wouldn't know this. It's not like there's any additional to the story that is coming from Igbo speaking towns.. The entire story from start to finish exists only in Yorùbá speaking areas but somehow the grand story is about Igbos and only the tiny piece is about yorubas undecided

2. "Igbo" is standard Yoruba dialect, "Ugbo" is central and south Eastern Yoruba dialects... Which both Ife and Ilaje fall into, so yes Ugbo is actually what they called themselves then, as they still do now
As far as historians can 'recall' is also all you have. So what is the issue exactly?

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 6:15am On Feb 16
macof:

Oh I was actually referring to "omoku" the other guy spoke about.

About Ugbomokun, I personally believe it is an oriki that has to do with "strength" not a place name exactly. I'm not very familiar with the traditions at Ilaje but from what I've read and heard from both the Olugbo and others there's very little differences. One of the few seeming differences is that Ugbo claim all of Ife was called Ugbomokun but Ife say only a part of Ife was called Ugbo (that is Iwinrin). Both might be right especially if I'm accurate that Ugbomokun is an oriki. Because as far as Ugbo were concerned they had already pulled out of Ife and created their own system under Obamakin, so in their perspective, their Ife was now Ugbomokun

Just a theory to reconcile the narratives

-------
You find "Eku" in Nupe, "Okun" in Yoruba and there was the "Onoku" example from earlier.. This is what my earlier statement was based on, only alternative explanation I see is that it is a yoruboid factor that spread

You are right on us not expecting a common word for sea because of the homeland not being around the sea but they still would likely have had floods that they might associate with the sea
What is the igbo word for flood?

The Igbo word for flood that I know of is iji. There could be other words for it from other dialect areas, but the Igbo of the Anambra River area and the Niger Valley call it iji.

I'm inclined to think that the 'Ku' words are a Yoruboid innovation that spread. Olokun was worshipped in Ika as Olokun and it reached them from nearby Benin settlements like Urhonigbe. Onoku is simply the Ukwuani adaptation of the same word.

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Hellraiser77: 10:21am On Feb 16
macof:


1. You wouldn't know this. It's not like there's any additional to the story that is coming from Igbo speaking towns.. The entire story from start to finish exists only in Yorùbá speaking areas but somehow the grand story is about Igbos and only the tiny piece is about yorubas undecided

2. "Igbo" is standard Yoruba dialect, "Ugbo" is central and south Eastern Yoruba dialects... Which both Ife and Ilaje fall into, so yes Ugbo is actually what they called themselves then, as they still do now
As far as historians can 'recall' is also all you have. So what is the issue exactly?
1. Such stories are present in few western Igbo communities including the igbanke people in modern Edo state.

The current Obi of Onitsha proclaimed recently that the aboriginals of Ife were a stock of Igbos saperate from their South east kin, which may finally put to rest the question of Igbos that claim they came from bini but don't know how they got there. https://newsexpressngr.com/news/38932-Igbos-were-the-first-to-settle-in-Ile-Ife-Obi-of-Onitsha

The current ooni of Ife corroborated it recently with stories of Igbo settlements that Oduduwa superimposed his dynasty on, thereby assimilating a vast majority while some groups simply scattered on various directions. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanguardngr.com/2019/08/ooni-of-ife-and-the-igbo-yoruba-relationship/amp/

The problem with Yoruba history is the sheer amount of folk tales and fabricated bullshlt packaged inside First by Ajayi crowther who first used the name "Yoruba" and later Awolowo to unite all the warring groups that today call themself Yoruba
Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by macof(m): 11:11am On Feb 16
AjaanaOka:


The Igbo word for flood that I know of is iji. There could be other words for it from other dialect areas, but the Igbo of the Anambra River area and the Niger Valley call it iji.

I'm inclined to think that the 'Ku' words are a Yoruboid innovation that spread. Olokun was worshipped in Ika as Olokun and it reached them from nearby Benin settlements like Urhonigbe. Onoku is simply the Ukwuani adaptation of the same word.

I see. Makes sense

What do you think about "Nna" meaning mother instead of father in Proto-igbo? This would make it easier to connect the word to other Volta-Niger words for mother

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by AjaanaOka(m): 12:20pm On Feb 16
macof:


I see. Makes sense

What do you think about "Nna" meaning mother instead of father in Proto-igbo? This would make it easier to connect the word to other Volta-Niger words for mother

It is quite plausible that the proto-Igbo word for 'mother' had a '-na' ending. This is based on the the few Igboid lects that still use such forms today.

In Ekpeye, mother is ina. In the Ndele dialect of Ikwere it is nna. In Ogba, it is ona/nna. The rest of the Igboid speech forms (that I am aware of) use words that have a '-ne' ending.

My theory is that proto-Igboid word for mother had a terminal 'na', but that the 'a' shifted to 'e' to avoid confusion with the word for father.

It is not mere coincidence that all the Igbo lects that use a -na word for mother have a '-da' or '-di' word for father. In Ekpeye, father is 'ida'; in Ndele, it is 'ada' or 'nda'; in Ogba it is 'didi' (although nna is also used; perhaps reborrowed recently from the hinterland Igbo).

In much of the rest of Igboid, the word for father had evolved to 'nna'; and perhaps to avoid confusion with mother, a concomitant shifting from '-na' to '-ne' occurred with respect to 'mother'.

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by macof(m): 12:51pm On Feb 16
Hellraiser77:
1. Such stories are present in few western Igbo communities including the igbanke people in modern Edo state.

The current Obi of Onitsha proclaimed recently that the aboriginals of Ife were a stock of Igbos saperate from their South east kin, which may finally put to rest the question of Igbos that claim they came from bini but don't know how they got there. https://newsexpressngr.com/news/38932-Igbos-were-the-first-to-settle-in-Ile-Ife-Obi-of-Onitsha

The current ooni of Ife corroborated it recently with stories of Igbo settlements that Oduduwa superimposed his dynasty on, thereby assimilating a vast majority while some groups simply scattered on various directions. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanguardngr.com/2019/08/ooni-of-ife-and-the-igbo-yoruba-relationship/amp/

The problem with Yoruba history is the sheer amount of folk tales and fabricated bullshlt packaged inside First by Ajayi crowther who first used the name "Yoruba" and later Awolowo to unite all the warring groups that today call themself Yoruba

"Ugbo" are not more aboriginal than the other Isoro groups in Ife. Neither was the conflict between Aborigines and Foreigners... It was a civil war. Its funny how you are defensive over a story that isn't even told by igbo ancestors but by yoruba ancestors

Already you have defeated your argument by "they didn't know how they got there". Meaning there's no such thing in their traditions and all these are just recent attempts to fill in a void and unknown period of existence with elements from yoruba stories. So again, you can't know anything of what you are saying.. You still have to depend on yoruba history for what you claim is grand igbo history even as far as saying Proto-igbo of 8000 BC were the ones referred to, adding timeline inconsistencies. We should be getting all the narratives from igbos, but we get only reworked versions of the Yoruba narratives, where igbos have now been inserted

Fabricated bullshitt didn't stop you from reading and talking about it in the absence of any history from your side. Because its not as if you have the "non-fabricated bullshitt" that is independent of the fabricated one.
Worry more about igbo history, that's what the thread is about, instead of worrying about what the problem with yoruba history is, which tells more about your lack of understanding and limited knowledge on the subject matter than a problem with the traditional stories themselves. It's ok to be confused when you have little understanding of something but don't project that on everything, that should be on you alone.

Anyway, let's not digress. The thread should remain focused on Proto-igbo... In this case, it makes no sense to even dwell on Ife-Ugbo conflict

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by macof(m): 1:20pm On Feb 16
AjaanaOka:


It is quite plausible that the proto-Igbo word for 'mother' had a '-na' ending. This is based on the the few Igboid lects that still use such forms today.

In Ekpeye, mother is ina. In the Ndele dialect of Ikwere it is nna. In Ogba, it is ona/nna. The rest of the Igboid speech forms (that I am aware of) use words that have a '-ne' ending.

My theory is that proto-Igboid word for mother had a terminal 'na', but that the 'a' shifted to 'e' to avoid confusion with the word for father.

It is not mere coincidence that all the Igbo lects that use a -na word for mother have a '-da' or '-di' word for father. In Ekpeye, father is 'ida'; in Ndele, it is 'ada' or 'nda'; in Ogba it is 'didi' (although nna is also used; perhaps reborrowed recently from the hinterland Igbo).

In much of the rest of Igboid, the word for father had evolved to 'nna'; and perhaps to avoid confusion with mother, a concomitant shifting from '-na' to '-ne' occurred with respect to 'mother'.

Very interesting indeed. This just gives more confirmation to my suspicion that -na [nya] words are for Mother and -da for Father
Some languages have lost the '- da' but they all retained the mother sufficiently
So unfair grin

Father is also "Nda" in Nupe and "Ada" in Ebira and Idoma

And I don't know if you noticed but all the igbo speaking areas using '- na' and '-da' forms for mother and father are southern igbo, which further buttresses your initial point.

Perhaps there wasn't a shift in the sense of bringing in a new form of the word but just how the two forms became to be used.. perhaps, '- ne' had existed for the longest time already.
You find "Iye" which I believe is connected in Edoid and Yoruboid languages and dialects
So this '- na' and '-ne' switching could be something that existed with the proto-YEAI speakers

1 Like

Re: What If Proto-igboid Speakers Entered Igboland From The South? by Hellraiser77: 1:52pm On Feb 16
macof:

"Ugbo" are not more aboriginal than the other Isoro groups in Ife. Neither was the conflict between Aborigines and Foreigners... It was a civil war. Its funny how you are defensive over a story that isn't even told by igbo ancestors but by yoruba ancestors

Already you have defeated your argument by "they didn't know how they got there". Meaning there's no such thing in their traditions and all these are just recent attempts to fill in a void and unknown period of existence with elements from yoruba stories. So again, you can't know anything of what you are saying.. You still have to depend on yoruba history for what you claim is grand igbo history even as far as saying Proto-igbo of 8000 BC were the ones referred to, adding timeline inconsistencies. We should be getting all the narratives from igbos, but we get only reworked versions of the Yoruba narratives, where igbos have now been inserted

Fabricated bullshitt didn't stop you from reading and talking about it in the absence of any history from your side. Because its not as if you have the "non-fabricated bullshitt" that is independent of the fabricated one.
Worry more about igbo history, that's what the thread is about, instead of worrying about what the problem with yoruba history is, which tells more about your lack of understanding and limited knowledge on the subject matter than a problem with the traditional stories themselves. It's ok to be confused when you have little understanding of something but don't project that on everything, that should be on you alone.

Anyway, let's not digress. The thread should remain focused on Proto-igbo... In this case, it makes no sense to even dwell on Ife-Ugbo conflict

As expected it turns to incoherent rants grin grin, it's very easy to bruise the ego of yoruba amateur historians just hit at the fables they spurn around Ile ife Always does the Magic cheesy.

Anyway I expect you to take your insecure rants to the Ooni of Ife and ask him why he said and insisted that Oduduwa met Igbo people in Ile ife grin grin

Watch this clip and notice nobody was holding him at gunpoint grin https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DUZ8BA4l9oK0&ved=2ahUKEwj_k8_8paTrAhX6RhUIHdKtBMwQwqsBMBF6BAgIEBI&usg=AOvVaw2gfqF3C_KypxV2QZLp3-iU

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