Sky Blue:

Are all allegations of corruption and other such charges including cases pending in the US against Tinubu false? Or do you simply expect me to close my eyes to all that and blindly swallow what you have just posited? Since when did fighting the Federal Government become equivalent to sainthood and progressivism? If that is the case shouldn't Nigerians have flung their arms open to embrace Atiku? PDP also has "progressive" legislators too so please sing a different tune.

If most accounts are to be believed then what is happening today is a good thing in my opinion, because at least it shows Nigerians having some sort of power to hold their leaders to account. But please, let us not go over the top with this ACN thing. They are not the best thing since sliced bread. I personally believe we could be on the dawn of progress simply because (going by what could happen in the next 24hours), elected public servers would have to start taking the electorate a bit more seriously because we can throw them out at the polls. Surely that and the balance of power in the legislature is a good thing, isn't it?

ekt_bear:

Sky Blue is a bit of a m.oron if he is referencing some "pending" US charges.

Which charges? The case settled already in the 90s is still pending? In 2011?

A man who comes and goes as he pleases to the US still has charges pending? Please, keep silent rather than confirming your ignorance.

Fair enough he got in just late November and Fayemi last October. So my question goes, when people shout "ACN is progressive" "ACN is progressive", whose performance are they rating or linking such declarations to if Fayemi and Aregbesola just got there late last year and whose tenures by your postulations might be too early to pass a verdict on? If it is not Fashola then who is it please? So please spare us. When I think ACN I think Tinubu.

Bola Ahmed Adekunle Tinubu was born on 29 March 1952 in the city of Lagos. He attended St. John's Primary School, Aroloya, Lagos and Children's Home School in Ibadan. Tinubu went to the United States in 1975, where he studied first at Richard J. Daley College in Chicago, Illinois and then at Chicago State University. He graduated in 1979 with a Bachelors of Science degree in Accounting.[1]

Tinubu worked for American companies Arthur Andersen, Deloitte, Haskins, & Sells, and GTE Services Corporation.[2] After returning to Nigeria in 1983 Bola Tunubu obtained work with Mobil Oil Nigeria, becoming an executive of the company.[3]

dayokanu:

For one, Aregbe and Fayemi are still under 6 months at their jobs.

Aregbe has already providd jobs for 20,000 citizens of the state which is a step in the right direction because if we ask, They would be paid at least minimum wage of about 10k which amounts to 200m per month.

Ask where was the 200m per month going to under the PDP led Oyinlola. Aregbe is already a movement in the right direction.

Think Tinubu as the face of ACN which is a good thing because It was Tinubu who notably stood up to the OBJ-PDP oppression on all when others were content with the garrison OBJ rule So Tinubu is good for us as a voice against oppression of the PDP

PDP wanted in the US? Since when? over 15yrs ago and he frequents the US like anything? Even if you are trying to discredit someone why dont you take the pain to come up with something concrete and reasonable

suwailad:

@Sky blue

I dont know what you mean but if you go to Edo state, see what Oshiomohole has done. Even in 2012, edo citizens say they wont vote, that they would rather just 'Install' Oshiomhole again. People are just insulting PDP all over Edo state.

Sky Blue:

Apologies with regards to using the words "pending" since you are right, it is a concluded case, I should have just used the word ex convict since I was quite familiar with the allegations when there was the uproar against him. He is an ex convict in the states the same way Ibori is an ex convict in the UK.

Sky Blue:

Apologies with regards to using the words "pending" since you are right, it is a concluded case, I should have just used the word ex convict since I was quite familiar with the allegations when there was the uproar against him. He is an ex convict in the states the same way Ibori is an ex convict in the UK.
http://news.onlinenigeria.com/templates/?a=448&z=12
http://www.saharareporters.com/news-page/bola-tinubus-heroin-tainted-assets-forfeiture-judgement
http://www.thisdayonline.com/archive/2003/02/02/20030202cov02.html

Or are those different Tinubu's??

Now to return to your other points raised. No need beating round the bush because you have already said they have only been there for under six months and are "moving in the right direction", like many other governors who started well but ended badly did. So when we hear "ACN is progressive", you are telling me it is because of Aregbe's 20,000 jobs and not because of Fashola's transformation of Lagos state? A bit disenginuous to make that claim, don't you think? ACN is seen as "progressive" today because of Fashola. There are other non ACN govenors also doing quite well in other states so please spare us this rewritting. ACN has only four governors on ground. Two of those have been in power less than six months and hence it would be a bit too early to start judging their performance. People are still waiting for Oshiomole (who had the large civil society support) to transform his state. So what are you talking about

ekt_bear:

You don't know what the word convict means. How can one be a convict if the case was settled? He was INDICTED (i.e., accused of committing a crime), yes. But he was never CONVICTED (judged guilty of commiting the crime.) Two completely different things.

It honestly pains me that you speak so authoritatively about a matter you know nothing about.

The United States of America, by its attorney, Michael J. Shepard, United States Attorney for Northern District of Illinois, for its verified complaint of forfeiture, states as follows:

1. This is a FORFEITURE action under 21 U.S.C , ss88 and 18, ss 981,
2. The DEFENDANT funds are located in the above-described accounts and were SEIZED pursuant to PROCESS ISSUED BY THIS COURT,
,
4,  beginning as early as 1998, Adegboyega Mueez Akande, WITH OTHERS OPERATED a organiszation (sic) which DISTRIBUTED WHITE HEROIN, a controlled substance under Title 21 of the United States Code.
5,  this DISTRIBUTION OPERATION was conducted on a LARGE SCALE and the PROCEEDS of the operation SUBSTANTIAL. The defendant funds represent proceeds of this OPERATION of property involved in MONEY LAUNDERING.
6,  the defendant funds represent  proceeds of NARCOTICS TRAFFICKING ,  and ,  MONEY LAUNDERING,  the funds are therefore FOREFEITABLE to the United States,

JUDGEMENT:
j,  Neither a claim nor answer has been filed on behalf of the defendant funds ,  accordingly, it hereby
ORDERED that the funds in the AMOUNT of $460,000 in account,  in the name of BOLA TINUBU represents proceeds of NARCOTICS or were involved in financial transactions in violation of 18 U.S.C ss 1956 and 1957 and therefore these funds are forfeit to the United States,

dayokanu:

Can you define what an ex convict is and how Tinubu fits an ex-con profile. See ektbears response above.

They have been there for 6months and ppl already see positive movements from them.

ACN being tagged as progressives comes from Tinubu days where he battled against the PDP-OBJ domination.

When ppl call ACN a party of progressives in the current dispensation its due to the good works of Fashola and Oshiomole plus the strong note on which Aregbe and Fayemi started.

A governor rolls out 20,000 jobs out of the blues in Osun state which has been under the PDP cosh for 8yrs. Ppl aint silly, they recognize a performer when they see one

Sky Blue:

I would rather we don't veer of course but bring this back to the point. I was making an indictment on Tinubu's character which I claimed questionable. Now let us tie it to the court case and documents obtained in 2008 (which I had earlier presented some links to). Tinubu was not convicted of a crime yes, the case was settled and what was the result?

ekt_bear:

Sky Blue: Funds being siezed is not the end of the world. If I buy a very expesnive watch that is actually stolen property, perhaps someone might accuse me of stealing it, and I'll have to return it. But so long as I don't go to jail or am not otherwise penalized (e.g., convicted of receiving stolen property, some crime like that), I'm clean as a whistle (at least, from the perspective of the legal system.)
The stuff in bold is the end of the story. In Nigeria, things might work differently.

But here in the US, if you are not convicted and the case is settled, even if you must pay a fine, you have no criminal record and thus from the perspective of the law are clean as a whistle. There is nothing further to be said. Any analogies between the US and the EFCC don't work. . . simply because in the US you cannot bribe/payoff some PDP official to let you go easy.

US District Attorneys try to extract EVERY pound of flesh they can. If they felt they had a strong enough case against Tinubu, they'd have taken him to court, DEFEATED him, and he'd be rotting in a jail cell. That they accepted a deal suggests that THEIR CASE WASN'T STRONG ENOUGH. Now, if the DA wasn't able to make a strong enough case against him. . . who the f*** are you to say he is a criminal? Something even they weren't able to prove?

Anyway, we are arguing over irrelevant details. He was not convicted, and thus is not a criminal. End of story, case closed.

JUDGEMENT:
j,  Neither a claim nor answer has been filed on behalf of the defendant funds ,  accordingly, it hereby
ORDERED that the funds in the AMOUNT of $460,000 in account,  in the name of BOLA TINUBU represents proceeds of NARCOTICS or were involved in financial transactions in violation of 18 U.S.C ss 1956 and 1957 and therefore these funds are forfeit to the United States,

This whole debacle started with me claiming Tinubu's character to be questionable, and I stand by it!!

ekt_bear:

^-- You are comparing the justice system in a wuruwuru country like Nigeria to that of the US of A?

Apples and oranges comparison.

Tinubu entered the lion's den (the US court system) and came out alive, intact, with his body parts intact and minor scratches.

He was not convicted of any crimes in the US. Sure, he was ordered to give up substantial money. But he was not jailed, and to my knowledge has no criminal record in the US.

That is sufficient.

Anyway, I'm not claiming his character is perfect, or that he is a good man. But he is not a criminal or convict, as you suggested.

Sky Blue:

And you are hinging too much justification on the fact that he came out without a conviction to his name in a US court, as if the US justice system (though better than what obtains in Nigeria) is a perfect one.

Why was he ordered to give up substantial money? What deal was made? So the US courts are in a habit of seizing assets for no good reason? And you come on to talk about lack of conviction being the key issue?

What about all the deals the EFCC cut with corrupt officials, or do you think plea bargains and deal making are non existent in the US justice system?

There is no need to be disenginuous. I called Tinubu's character questionable (to put it kindly) and I stand by it.

Kellum said that though Tinubu was not subjected to criminal prosecution, the fact that he acceded to forfeiting funds to the United States Government was on its own a conviction.

“Even though he was not charged to court, he had to compromise the case. Otherwise, he would have lost the whole money.

“Arising from the case, Governor Ahmed Bola Tinubu forfeited 460,000 US dollars to the United States Government being proceeds of narcotic trafficking or property involved in financial transactions in violation of 18 USO 1956 and 1957 and therefore was forfeitable to the United States (emphasis that of the NDLEA).

ekt_bear:

^-- Above is full of so many contradictions.

1) Was it a cocaine or heroin ring he was running? Or both?
2) Where in the US can one be convicted for dealing HEROIN and be offered the option of a fine? Again, are you familiar with the US court system, or just randomly copying and pasting articles? $460k+ worth of marijuana will get a person jailed for a long time, not to talk of heroin or cocaine.
3) How is it possible to be CONVICTED without being prosecuted?  Do you not see the inconsistency here?
4)ROFL. So he actually didn't even have to give up all the money?! What an amazing dude.

Anyway, as you can see. . .the article you posted is full of contradictions, and suggests instead that Tinubu negotiated a deal with the DA in which he wasn't even required to give up all the money they beleived was the proceedings of drug sales.

Long story short. . . Tinubu very well may have been a drug lord, a drug dealer, whatever. But if the US court system couldn't prove it, then it seems to me none of us are in a position to call him one. And certainly, NONE of us can call him a convict.

Sky Blue:

The article is from the very first link I ever posted in this page. If you believe it to be full of contradictions, have you actually gone through the other ones or are you just here to make noise and let me "copy and paste" for you?

Point one seems a triviallity because the court referred to it as narcotics (more generic). Point two and three are questions for the man listed in the article. Tinubu took a plea bargain.

I don't even see the importance of point four, is it a brag or what that all money wasn't given up?? So this really is your rebuff? I don't even know why I am wasting my time. If we can call Atiku (who also went through the US justice system) and IBB criminals then be under no illusions, I (like many others) will also be throwing Tinubu in that group. He does not automatically become acceptable because he got a plea bargain. I was against the excuse that he was somehow different from the rest we regard as corrupt and criminals and I stand by that. If Atiku, IBB and co are not acceptable then why on earth should Tinubu be? What hypocricy. A spade is a spade.

Sky Blue:

And you are hinging too much justification on the fact that he came out without a conviction to his name in a US court, as if the US justice system (though better than what obtains in Nigeria) is a perfect one. Why was he ordered to give up substantial money? What deal was made? So the US courts are in a habit of seizing assets for no good reason? And you come on to talk about lack of conviction being the key issue? What about all the deals the EFCC cut with corrupt officials, or do you think plea bargains and deal making are non existent in the US justice system and only happen in Nigeria? There is no need to be disenginuous. I called Tinubu's character questionable (to put it kindly) and I stand by it. If IBB and co are questionable then so is Tinubu. To suddenly try to seperate him from the pack because we feel like it is plain nonsensical. Progressive my foot!