OkCornel:


Jesus would not encourage his followers to repay evil for evil, not to talk of aborting babies.

Heaven has no place for those with an utterly selfish mindse.

This might be true but it has no bearing with the OP. the focus is on the babies who are aborted

hopefulLandlord:
First off, this topic is directed at those Christians who believe aborted babies definitely go to heaven to enjoy forever and ever.

By this reasoning you think that heaven is doing like America in the 80's looking for migrants to come which is not so.

Further, like America, donors did not benefit entry to America because they donated their children to America. They remained behind.

So there is no profit to the donor.

Thus, it is up to the Consulate and Government of Heaven to decide who shall migrate to their territory.

Ugh! I am bored so I'll bite!

hopefulLandlord:
A. First off, this topic is directed at those Christians who believe aborted babies definitely go to heaven to enjoy forever and ever. if you're a Christian that holds a different opinion to this then this topic is not meant for you
This topic is based on 4 premises
1. Abortion is murder
2. Aborted babies go to heaven
3. many/most of the babies who get born into this sinful world stand a chance of falling away from God/Jesus or living a life of sin
4. Christ came to die for the sins of the world because he desires humans to make heaven..

A. Let's more closely examine all four premisses on which your case is made, and determine if they are true of scripture or merely baseless ideas born of the minds of men.
Premise 1. Abortion as murder is scriptural given that since the time of Noah.

6 “God made humans to be like himself. So whoever kills a person must be killed by another person. - Genesis 9 vs 6

There is no evidence that the above ruling was ever repealed by God. So, for those who believe in God, it is a sin against God to kill another human being.
Premise 2. There is no scriptural truth to this claim whatsoever. Instead, we are told that those born of a woman are born removed from God meaning they are born unbelievers from their birth.

16 Then God said to the woman,“I will cause you to have much trouble when you are pregnant. And when you give birth to children, you will have much pain. You will want your husband very much, but he will rule over you.”
17 Then God said to the man, “I commanded you not to eat from that tree. But you listened to your wife and ate from it. So I will curse the ground because of you. You will have to work hard all your life for the food the ground produces.
18 The ground will grow thorns and weeds for you. And you will have to eat the plants that grow wild in the fields.
19 You will work hard for your food, until your face is covered with sweat. You will work hard until the day you die, and then you will become dust again. I used dust to make you, and when you die, you will become dust again.”
20 Adam named his wife Eve. He gave her this name because Eve would be the mother of everyone who ever lived.
21 The Lord God used animal skins and made some clothes for the man and his wife. Then he put the clothes on them.
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.” - Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22

As highlighted in verse 19, when an unbeliever dies, he is returned back to the dust from which he was made — mind. body and soul.
Premise 3. If they were born removed from God from their beginning, then they cannot be said to fall away from God unless they make the choice to do so at a later time, after learning of God that is. So, your third premise, when put against that which is of scripture is equally faulty.
Premise 4. According to the same Jesus Christ, many are called but only a few are chosen from all those called. So, it seems this situation you highlight here does not directly impact those who belong to Jesus Christ.

TenQ:

Is a true Christian allowed to justify murder as a means to an end?

Ask a "true Christian".

Define murder.

Kobojunkie:
Ugh! I am bored so I'll bite!A. Let's more closely examine all four premisses on which your case is made, and determine if they are true of scripture or merely baseless ideas born of the minds of men.
Premise 1. Abortion as murder is scriptural given that since the time of Noah. There is no evidence that the above ruling was ever repealed by God. So, for those who believe in God, it is a sin against God to kill another human being.
Premise 2. There is no scriptural truth to this claim whatsoever. Instead, we are told that those born of a woman are born removed from God meaning they are born unbelievers from their birth.
As highlighted in verse 19, when an unbeliever dies, he is returned back to the dust from which he was made — mind. body and soul.
Premise 3. If they were born removed from God from their beginning, then they cannot be said to fall away from God unless they make the choice to do so at a later time, after learning of God that is. So, your third premise, when put against that which is of scripture is equally faulty.
Premise 4. According to the same Jesus Christ, many are called but only a few are chosen from all those called. So, it seems this situation you highlight here does not directly impact those who belong to Jesus Christ.

What is murder?

Kobojunkie:

Premise 2. There is no scriptural truth to this claim whatsoever. Instead, we are told that those born of a woman are born removed from God meaning they are born unbelievers from their birth.

If you do not agree with premise 2 then this topic is not for you. in fact if you took your time to read the first paragraph of the OP you wouldn't have bothered with this reply of yours
here's the paragraph

hopefulLandlord:
First off, this topic is directed at those Christians who believe aborted babies definitely go to heaven to enjoy forever and ever. if you're a Christian that holds a different opinion to this then this topic is not meant for you

LordReed:
What is murder?

Did you skip Genesis 9 vs 6 quoted only so you can ask me this silly question?

hopefulLandlord:
If you do not agree with premise 2 then this topic is not for you. in fact if you took your time to read the first paragraph of the OP you wouldn't have bothered with this reply of yours
here's the paragraph

I did specify that boredom was my reason for bothering.

Kobojunkie:
Did you skip Genesis 9 vs 6 quoted only so you can ask me this silly question?

LoLz. Oga be calming down. I didn't know that's what your definition of murder is.

Do you consider a zygote to be a person?

LordReed:
LoLz. Oga be calming down. I didn't know that's what your definition of murder is.
Do you consider a zygote to be a person?

LOL... what is the intent behind most every act of abortion?

Kobojunkie:
LOL... what is the intent behind most every act of abortion?

So is your answer that yes you consider a zygote a person?

LordReed:
So is your answer that yes you consider a zygote a person?

Kobojunkie:

LordReed:


Ask a "true Christian".

Define murder.

Define life instead na.

Image123:


Define life instead na.

Ah ah ah, I asked first.

LordReed:


Ah ah ah, I asked first.

Asked him, not me/us.

Image123:


Asked him, not me/us.

You responded to my question though.

LordReed:


You responded to my question though.

Yes na, to jolt you to the truth. When you define life, you'll not need to ask your question. Except you just want to win him in an argument and have the last say.

Will aborted babies be babies in heaven too or adults?

hopefulLandlord:
First off, this topic is directed at those Christians who believe aborted babies definitely go to heaven to enjoy forever and ever. if you're a Christian that holds a different opinion to this then this topic is not meant for you

This topic is based on 4 premises

1. Abortion is murder
2. Aborted babies go to heaven
3. many/most of the babies who get born into this sinful world stand a chance of falling away from God/Jesus or living a life of sin
4. Christ came to die for the sins of the world because he desires humans to make heaven.

If you are a believer in premise 2 then it makes sense to encourage abortion as a way of saving many souls that may end up perishing in hell. Of course I need to point out this only focuses on the aborted baby not who's doing the abortion. a "Christian" doctor who performs about 200,000 abortions in his lifetime would've automatically ensured salvation for 200,000 souls even though he (the doctor) doesn't make heaven in the end it's still a worthy sacrifice of one for 200,000

if you're a Christian who believes in all these premises and have no argument against it then you should encourage abortion rather than preach against it.

Image123:


Yes na, to jolt you to the truth. When you define life, you'll not need to ask your question. Except you just want to win him in an argument and have the last say.

The definition of life wouldn't help his or your case. Life is the quality that separates living organisms from dead matter and is identified with the following qualities reproduction, sensitivity to environmental stimuli, respiration, growth, ingestion, excretion, movement.

ENGINEERG:
Will aborted babies be babies in heaven too or adults?

That's a question you have to ask those that believe aborted babies go straight to heaven

LordReed:


The definition of life wouldn't help his or your case. Life is the quality that separates living organisms from dead matter and is identified with the following qualities reproduction, sensitivity to environmental stimuli, respiration, growth, ingestion, excretion, movement.

Are babies in the womb living things?

Image123:


Are babies in the womb living things?

Yes they are living things.

LordReed:


Yes they are living things.

To kill is to deprive of life, or cause the death of. Are babies in the womb not deprived life by abortion?

Image123:


To kill is to deprive of life, or cause the death of. Are babies in the womb not deprived life by abortion?

Yes they are deprived of life by abortion. We deprive many things of life and don't call it murder or even see it as wrong.

LordReed:


Yes they are deprived of life by abortion. We deprive many things of life and don't call it murder or even see it as wrong.

Like humans?

Image123:


Like humans?

Yes even humans.

LordReed:


Yes even humans.

Good, do you now see why we don't call every human death murder, crime or genocide? It all depends on the context.

Image123:


Good, do you now see why we don't call every human death murder, crime or genocide? It all depends on the context.

I agree that context is useful in determining what is considered murder.

LordReed:


I agree that context is useful in determining what is considered murder.

Great.

ENGINEERG:
Will aborted babies be babies in heaven too or adults?

So far its widely known there are at least 11 - 12 dimensions, and so, operating in a different dimension, other than 3-D, will be in place, and the implication of that is, stages of life, in terms of being babies or adult, would have become redundant, so the point being advanced here, is that, aborted babies in heaven, will be neither babies or adults. They'll be as deserving or appropriate in the circumstances heaven is found to be.

hopefulLandlord:
That's a question you have to ask those that believe aborted babies go straight to heaven

Luke 16:19-22
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table.
Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom.
The rich man also died and was buried.

No human being dead or alive is currently in heaven. In fact, it is Abraham's bosom nka Paradise where all departed souls currently are.

Heaven, actually is going to be a honeymoon destination following the wedding of the Groom and the church.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}