Dtruthspeaker:


No vex na, it is how I have interpreted what you said that I have responded to it (exactly as how people are interpreting Paul's Writing), but Paul is not here to shed more light but you can, if you may.

However, in response to your second question, I answer that there is Only One Law which Paul was keeping in View, To wit- God's Laws, it's Application, Consequences and the Judgements thereof!

Good if there is only one law, why are you trying to add another law to it?

You basking in ignorance thinking you are knowledgeable, the one law which paul was talking about is God's law, it cannot justify a man.

livingchrist:
Jesus could have not come, of the law an justify you. Paul was only revealing God's message.

Jesus could have come and He did come, not because of your false belief that the law could not justify. No, Jesus Christ came because of God's actual plan for a New Covenant Law for His New Kingdom.

Maybe Paul was telling you something else but not God's Message. God, Himself declared that Abraham was justified by His works done in obedience to God's commandments.

Genesis 26 vs 1-5 (ERV)
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1. Now there was a famine. This was like the famine that happened during Abraham’s life. So Isaac went to the town of Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines.
2. The Lord spoke to Isaac and said, “Don’t go down to Egypt. Live in the land that I commanded you to live in.
3. Stay in this land, and I will be with you. I will bless you. I will give you and your family all these lands. I will do what I promised to Abraham your father.
4. I will make your family as many as the stars of heaven, and I will give all these lands to your family. Through your descendants[a] every nation on earth will be blessed.
5. I will do this because your father Abraham obeyed my words and did what I said. He obeyed my commands, my laws, and my rules.”

Was Paul accusing God of lying?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus could have come and He did come, not because of your false belief that the law could not justify. No, Jesus Christ came because of God's actual plan for a New Covenant Law for His New Kingdom.

if the law can justify a man Christ could have not come.

Maybe Paul was telling you something else but not God's Message. God, Himself declared that Abraham was justified by His works done in obedience to God's commandments.
Was Paul accusing God of lying?

you claim Paul's message was not God's message, do you have any proof?
What lead to Abraham's obedience? Was it not faith?

livingchrist:
if the law can justify a man Christ could have not come.

Jesus Christ did not come simply to justify you! He came with the New Covenant agreement which God promised His people.

livingchrist:
you claim Paul's message was not God's message, do you have any proof?
What lead to Abraham's obedience? Was it not faith?

Paul was telling you something in there for sure.
I am afraid you are still caught in a loop... Re-read the passage again and pay attention to what God said of Abraham.

Genesis 26 vs 1-5 (ERV)
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1. Now there was a famine. This was like the famine that happened during Abraham’s life. So Isaac went to the town of Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines.
2. The Lord spoke to Isaac and said, “Don’t go down to Egypt. Live in the land that I commanded you to live in.
3. Stay in this land, and I will be with you. I will bless you. I will give you and your family all these lands. I will do what I promised to Abraham your father.
4. I will make your family as many as the stars of heaven, and I will give all these lands to your family. Through your descendants[a] every nation on earth will be blessed.
5. I will do this because your father Abraham obeyed my words and did what I said. He obeyed my commands, my laws, and my rules.”

Clearly, God tells you that it was because Abraham trusted Him and obeyed Him -Abraham did works in obedience to God's commandments, laws, and rules, and for that reason, God chose to bless even His descendants for it.

What the above is trying to teach you is that Faith refers to the works you do when you accept and obey the commandments of God. So any doctrine that teaches you that Faith means you do not do works at all, is not according to God but someone else's idea.
In His teachings, Jesus Christ makes it clear that it is only those who accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments that are justified in Him.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ did not come simply to justify you! He came with the New Covenant agreement which God promised His people.

if the old testament/law can bring righteousness why the need for a new testament? What did Jesus say 8n John 3:16?

Paul was telling you something in there for sure.

you have not provided evidence for your assertion. How is Paul's message different from that of God?

I am afraid you are still caught in a loop... Re-read the passage again and pay attention to what God said of Abraham.
Clearly, God tells you that it was because Abraham trusted Him and obeyed Him -Abraham did works in obedience to God's commandments, laws, and rules, and for that reason, God chose to bless even His descendants for it.

What the above is trying to teach you is that Faith refers to the works you do when you accept and obey the commandments of God. So any doctrine that teaches you that Faith means you do not do works at all, is not according to God but someone else's idea.
In His teachings, Jesus Christ makes it clear that it is only those who accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments that are justified in Him.

this right here is ignorance speaking.
Was this before or after Abraham was justified by his believing on God?

You dont no about the faith/actions relationship.
Faith is the engine work is the action of the engine.

Put simply, Abraham's faith was in action which is obeying God, but however it was his faith that justified him in the first place.

livingchrist:
if the old testament/law can bring righteousness why the need for a new testament? What did Jesus say 8n John 3:16?

you have not provided evidence for your assertion. How is Paul's message different from that of God?

this right here is ignorance speaking.
Was this before or after Abraham was justified by his believing on God?

You dont no about the faith/actions relationship.
Faith is the engine work is the action of the engine.

Put simply, Abraham's faith was in action which is obeying God, but however it was his faith that justified him in the first place.

Faith is the engine work is the action? Abraham's faith was in action which is obeying God..... ? wow!
Why are you trying so very hard to confuse yourself.

As for John 3vs 16, please read all the way to verse 21 to get a better picture of what you are being told there. Nowhere in that passage are you told that you are made righteous by believing... instead, you are saved from Death, the condemnation of sin( not to be confused with Sin itself) and giving eternal life( which can be spent in either Heaven or Hell).

livingchrist:
Good if there is only one law, why are you trying to add another law to it?

Mbok, Biko which law did I make that I am adding to it? Is it my law? Am not I repeating The Law God Issued?

I know you know the Truth that I laid, you only simply wish to reject it, as the people of Israel rejected God's Laws given through Moses, as is your right, but it is not necessary that you should bend my words and my intentions out of context simply because you do not wish to accept it.

livingchrist:

You basking in ignorance thinking you are knowledgeable, the one law which paul was talking about is God's law, it cannot justify a man.

I get it, a non-lawyer interpreting a legal document just as a carpenter is also an expert in interpreting a doctor's prescription and recommendation!

Dtruthspeaker:


Mbok, Biko which law did I make that I am adding to it? Is it my law? Am not I repeating The Law God Issued?

Didnt you say that paul was not talking of the original law given to moses?
But you are changing it now,

I know you know the Truth that I laid, you only simply wish to reject it, as the people of Israel rejected God's Laws given through Moses, as is your right, but it is not necessary that you should bend my words and my intentions out of context simply because you do not wish to accept it.



I get it, a non-lawyer interpreting a legal document just as a carpenter is also an expert in interpreting a doctor's prescription and recommendation!

what you are saying is nonsense, you don't need to be a lawyer to interpret God's law, that is what the devil has deceived you to believe.

I and every Christian has the holy Spirit in them so we understand and the teachings of paul, it is only heretics and apostates that condemn themselves with what they dont know.

Paul was very clear in his teachings, the law cannot make anyone righteous, if you are contending with this, then you are an apostate

livingchrist:
Didnt you say that paul was not talking of the original law given to moses?
But you are changing it now,

The Records up here bear witness to what I said and what I did not say.

And you got the information I was passing hence, you pursued the reasonable questions which proceeded out of my answer until now.

So right now what I see is you attempting to take me back to my earlier statements with an untrue alteration for I never said "paul was not talking of the original law given to moses?" Whereas I clearly said "Paul was keeping in View, To wit- God's Laws, it's Application, Consequences and the Judgements thereof!"

If you have another angle towards my statement, it is only right and just that you lay my own words, the way I stated it, rather than alter it and present the alteration, as mine, that is unfair and a Fraud!

livingchrist:

what you are saying is nonsense, you don't need to be a lawyer to interpret God's law, that is what the devil has deceived you to believe.

Yes, like you do not need to be a Medical Doctor to Practice Medicine or anyone can just go into a Court to Defend Accused of having commited An Offence!

I have laid before you and all, your ordinary English interpretation of the Writings of Paul's interpretation of which you already have and the different Legal Interpretation of those same writings, which of them most accurately connects The Word of The Lord from The beginning since Noah, The Law of The Prophets and the Prophecy of Christ and The Personal Affirmation of All these Things by Christ Jesus, REMEMBERING ANOTHER LAW OF GOD "I AM THE LORD, I CHANGE NOT!" without any reasonable doubt and question!

For i have already poked holes which ye are not able to fill in and with your ordinary English interpretation whereas, ye are not able to rebut my Legal interpretation rather you are repeating what has already been shredded As Proven Below!

livingchrist:

Paul was very clear in his teachings, the law cannot make anyone righteous, if you are contending with this, then you are an apostate

Hence, the beginnings of a re-argument and why I said Carpenter's reading and interpreting Doctor's Notes!

And the re-presentation of a Destroyed Ground of Belief is Always a Clear Proof that, that belief is Unfounded and Does Not Form part of The Unbreakable Truth of God Established Forever!

For The Truth of The Lord Grows Stronger with Attack and weakens not!

I apologise if I misunderstood you

But since you mean paul was talking about the original law,
Paul said no man can be justified by it, it means the law is so holy that no flesh can fulfill its demands.
I dont see the reason for this argument in the first place, if you disagree with it kindly give your reasons and have a sane conversation.

Dtruthspeaker:


The Records up here bear witness to what I said and what I did not say.

And you got the information I was passing hence, you pursued the reasonable questions which proceeded out of my answer until now.

So right now what I see is you attempting to take me back to my earlier statements with an untrue alteration for I never said "paul was not talking of the original law given to moses?" Whereas I clearly said "Paul was keeping in View, To wit- God's Laws, it's Application, Consequences and the Judgements thereof!"

If you have another angle towards my statement, it is only right and just that you lay my own words, the way I stated it, rather than alter it and present the alteration, as mine, that is unfair and a Fraud!



Yes, like you do not need to be a Medical Doctor to Practice Medicine or anyone can just go into a Court to Defend Accused of having commited An Offence!

I have laid before you and all, your ordinary English interpretation of the Writings of Paul's interpretation of which you already have and the different Legal Interpretation of those same writings, which of them most accurately connects The Word of The Lord from The beginning since Noah, The Law of The Prophets and the Prophecy of Christ and The Personal Affirmation of All these Things by Christ Jesus, REMEMBERING ANOTHER LAW OF GOD "I AM THE LORD, I CHANGE NOT!" without any reasonable doubt and question!

For i have already poked holes which ye are not able to fill in and with your ordinary English interpretation whereas, ye are not able to rebut my Legal interpretation rather you are repeating what has already been shredded As Proven Below!



Hence, the beginnings of a re-argument and why I said Carpenter's reading and interpreting Doctor's Notes!

And the re-presentation of a Destroyed Ground of Belief is Always a Clear Proof that, that belief is Unfounded and Does Not Form part of The Unbreakable Truth of God Established Forever!

For The Truth of The Lord Grows Stronger with Attack and weakens not!

livingchrist:
I apologise if I misunderstood you
But since you mean paul was talking about the original law,
Paul said no man can be justified by it, it means the law is so holy that no flesh can fulfill its demands.
I dont see the reason for this argument in the first place, if you disagree with it kindly give your reasons and have a sane conversation.

The following people were justified by the Old Covenant Laws you speak of....

1. Zechariah, and his wife, Elizabeth, both of them Old covenant Jews, was introduced as righteous folks

Luke 1 vs 5-7 (ERV)
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5. In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah,[a] of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
6. And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.
7. But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and both were advanced in years.

2. Joseph, the husband of Mary, an Old covenant Jew, was introduced as a righteous man

Matthew 1 vs 19-20 (ESV)
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19. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.
20. But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

3. Simeon, an Old covenant Jew, was introduced as a righteous man

Luke 2 vs 25-35 (ESV)
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25. Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
26. And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27. And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law,
28. he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
29. “Lord, now you are letting your servant[e] depart in peace, according to your word;
30. for my eyes have seen your salvation
31. that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32. a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.”

33. And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him.
34. And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed
35. (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.”

4. Joseph from the Jewish town of Arimathea was introduced as a righteous man

Luke 23 vs 50-35 (ESV)
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50. Now there was a man named Joseph, from the Jewish town of Arimathea. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man,
51. who had not consented to their decision and action, and he was looking for the kingdom of God.
52. This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

livingchrist:
I apologise if I misunderstood you

It's fine, I understand the difficulty of accepting new information coming from unknown and unrecognised quarters for I am certain you and others will have no difficulty accepting this same information if it was offered by the Adeboye's, Oyedepo's and co with their SAN's in tow.

It's the way of the peoples of the world!

livingchrist:

But since you mean paul was talking about the original law,
Paul said no man can be justified by it, it means the law is so holy that no flesh can fulfill its demands.

That is why I told you that you are interpreting Paul's Statement Wrongly because you are reading it with your ordinary knowledge of basic English, meanwhile Paul is A Lawyer and His Writing is A LEGAL DOCUMENT!

Let me go pick up the Legal Interpretation from the thread with Ken4Christ where I attempted presenting the layman's interpretation juxtaposed with the Legal Interpretation for you to decide which of the 2 interpretations would be the mind of Paul when he wrote his letters!

Let me show you the Law interpretations of those key statements you hold

Ken4Christ:

11. Galatians 3:10-13

- "...no man is justified by the law..."

Legal Interpretation, "If you do not abide by The Law, how can you be justified by it?

Meaning, how can you raise it up as your Defence?

Surely, that is Impossible, for it would not avail you eg a person who has not fulfilled the law on the practice of medicine will not have the defence of being a Medical Doctor!

Ken4Christ:

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW by the BODY OF CHRIST

Means you do not care about The Law! The Law no dey touch your soul and you can not be bothered about it, to simply put it!

Thus, legally it means you have put away The Law from affecting your soul exactly as a person who does not care about the Covid-Protocols, what shall happen to such a one when he is caught breaking it?

Ken4Christ:

Romans 7:6 But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held;

Interpretation! You are delivered and saved from not "Feeling" The LAW (The Dead do not feel), To Now Feeling the Presence and Power of The Law!

Legally meaning you are now Sensitive to The Presence and Effect of The Law!

Ken4Christ:

Romans 7:4 For Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to every one that believeth

Interpretation: Christ is The Goal of The Law (End in Law means Goal, Aim or Destination!!

Ken4Christ:

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, but under grace.

When you come to Romans 6 you get to learn about Laws of Sins of which the class actually started at Romans 3.

Thus, this verse is in Direct Reference to The Law of Sin and Death which All Law breakers must fall Under, but when ye keep The Law, and ye do it's Righteousness, ye are passed over and above The Law of Sin and death into eternal Life!

This is The Law Interpretations of those Statements and it's understanding thereof!

So compare your Ordinary English interpretation with this Legal Interpretations, which do you think will be the most appropriate and Truth-full view which Lawyer Paul must have in mind when he wrote those letters?

This is why I said what you are saying does not make sense.

Dtruthspeaker:


It's fine, I understand the difficulty of accepting new information coming from unknown and unrecognised quarters for I am certain you and others will have no difficulty accepting this same information if it was offered by the Adeboye's, Oyedepo's and co with their SAN's in tow.

It's the way of the peoples of the world!



That is why I told you that you are interpreting Paul's Statement Wrongly because you are reading it with your ordinary knowledge of basic English, meanwhile Paul is A Lawyer and His Writing is A LEGAL DOCUMENT!

Let me go pick up the Legal Interpretation from the thread with Ken4Christ where I attempted presenting the layman's interpretation juxtaposed with the Legal Interpretation for you to decide which of the 2 interpretations would be the mind of Paul when he wrote his letters!

Let me show you the Law interpretations of those key statements you hold



- "...no man is justified by the law..."

Legal Interpretation, "If you do not abide by The Law, how can you be justified by it?

Meaning, how can you raise it up as your Defence?

Surely, that is Impossible, for it would not avail you eg a person who has not fulfilled the law on the practice of medicine will not have the defence of being a Medical Doctor!



Means you do not care about The Law! The Law no dey touch your soul and you can not be bothered about it, to simply put it!

Thus, legally it means you have put away The Law from affecting your soul exactly as a person who does not care about the Covid-Protocols, what shall happen to such a one when he is caught breaking it?



Interpretation! You are delivered and saved from not "Feeling" The LAW (The Dead do not feel), To Now Feeling the Presence and Power of The Law!

Legally meaning you are now Sensitive to The Presence and Effect of The Law!



Interpretation: Christ is The Goal of The Law (End in Law means Goal, Aim or Destination!!



When you come to Romans 6 you get to learn about Laws of Sins of which the class actually started at Romans 3.

Thus, this verse is in Direct Reference to The Law of Sin and Death which All Law breakers must fall Under, but when ye keep The Law, and ye do it's Righteousness, ye are passed over and above The Law of Sin and death into eternal Life!

This is The Law Interpretations of those Statements and it's understanding thereof!

So compare your Ordinary English interpretation with this Legal Interpretations, which do you think will be the most appropriate and Truth-full view which Lawyer Paul must have in mind when he wrote those letters?

livingchrist:
This is why I said what you are saying does not make sense.

Exactly why Peter said it is difficult for the Unlearned to understand for even where I have laid all out, you still do not understand or rather you Truly understand but it is hard to accept.

Well, that is Law for you, for it does not stand on small knowings but on many.great ones which is unable to enter the mind of simple folk!

You simply an ignorant man, that is puffed up by his fleshly mind.
What paul says cannot be understood by fleshly mind,
The law of God is not your man made law that requires the training of a lawyer to understand.

You can be carnally knowledgeable like being a lawyer but spiritual ignorant, go and ask nicodemus.


1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Dtruthspeaker:


Exactly why Peter said it is difficult for the Unlearned to understand for even where I have laid all out, you still do not understand or rather you Truly understand but it is hard to accept.

Well, that is Law for you, for it does not stand on small knowings but on many.great ones which is unable to enter the mind of simple folk!

livingchrist:
You simply an ignorant man, that is puffed up by his fleshly mind.
What paul says cannot be understood by fleshly mind,
The law of God is not your man made law that requires the training of a lawyer to understand.

You can be carnally knowledgeable like bring a lawyer but spiritual ignorant, go and ask nicodemus.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Thanks for the ridicule, for by it you have clearly shown that you can not answer.

So, since you were not able to kill the message, hence, the messenger Must Die!

For which I am happy to be murdered!

So, Thank you very much!

Where is my popcorn?

Churchgoers at it again.

Oní dòdò oní móímóí

Alákàrà atonígúgúrú

Nígbà tí ò tà ó gbégbá kalè

Ará e wá wò jà ní láfíàji

DappaD:

Where is my popcorn?
Churchgoers at it again.

Jkl

Iut

Op