budaatum:


But isn't the issue here that Christianity, or let's say, the Bible, is subject to interpretations which differ?

For example, some say to be a Christian one must believe and they quote numerous verses to support their position. But is understanding not more important that mere belief which demons also do? The Priest and the Levite so believed that they refused to do the work to the point that Jesus said the pagan non-believing Samaritan should be emulated and not them.

Atheism is even more inconsistent because there is no unifying equivalent to the Bible, and while some believe there are no Gods, some see such people as weak atheist because they merely believe instead of know there are no Gods.

I guess my point is in the assumptions about the contents of the head of another. It results in strawmaning whereby one is arguing against one's own position that one has imposed on some other person as often happens on here.

You are not wrong about the difference among the offshoot of a worldview system but my point have been about the generics. What is known to bring all of them under such camp.
Many may find some of the principles of such system to be difficult, but they've an a priori rejection for other systems already, hence, it is easier to make adjustments which may give them names such as heretics.
So atheism also have a priori rejection to the concept of God and would love to provide alternatives to worldview questions that are being answered with God being a presupposition. They must exclude God.

And when you talk of KNOWING that there is no God, that is a very difficult position for anyone to take. Most atheists don't like starting from a difficult position which is why they keep changing some terms (which generally, all do quickly adjust to) in order to reduce the burden of answering tough philosophical questions.

Again, I am not arguing against what I feel someone should believe. I am arguing against the concept provided by atheism in a broad sense. Trying to look for strong ground to stand on and deviating from the norm as explained by those whom many of our atheists have learned from is just a form of deception. In fact, I am not attacking straw man, rather I am engaging with what the literature from which they largely grow their arguments. If I used one person's belief (which may be "unorthodox" to atheism) to engage atheism, that is when I attack straw man

keppler:


You were even asked why, but you couldn't give any reason.
Or you are angry that you got exposed and couldn't defend your claims the other time?

I shouldn't answer stupid questions.
Nobody exposed me and I don't have to defend anything.
It is you that has to defend your decision to quote me.
R.I.P

budaatum:


Which you find incompatible with your own understanding, you mean.

But I'm sure you would not claim your understanding is the only correct one I hope.

I intentionally phrased it the way I did as I believe that it is possible to know what the Bible clearly teaches as against reading into the Bible what one wants.

I can't make such claim when it comes to understanding of some certain passages, but I believe that the Holy Spirit have helped in helping folks know Sola Scriptura - interpreting scripture with scripture, which is what we see Jesus and his apostles did. That help one not to impose his UNDERSTANDING on the scripture.

By the way, I said I don't like discussing interpretations of scripture. It's why I don't join when Christians are dissecting issues on NL

HellVictorinho:


I shouldn't answer stupid questions.
Nobody exposed me and I don't have to defend anything.
It is you that has to defend your decision to quote me.
R.I.P

You are clearly angry now for wishing me death.

God be with you

Dtruthspeaker:


Thank you for your encouraging words, may The Lord continue to give us His Strength to tear the-evils kingdom down!

Amen
God bless you

LordReed:


Why?

So, it's your question.
I thought it was the Dtruthspeaker that asked me.
I don't answer stupid questions by people like Dtruthspeaker.
Well, LordReed ,I'll answer you because you are honest on Nairaland.
You don't accuse people anyhow.
You are not so proud.
But keppler has decided to disturb my life.
He thinks he's being smart but he's just being stupid actually.
I was disappointed when budaatum agreed to his bullshit.
Both of them attacked me for no reason.
Damn!
It's not a rap battle.
I shouldn't be quoted baselessly.

keppler:


You are clearly angry now for wishing me death.

God be with you

Is death not what you deserve??

TheSourcerer:
exactly!
Well its an instinct , even a single cell wants to consume , the Rona too wishes to consume till its consumed , , its great really .

The instinct exists for no reason.

keppler:


This why I told you to ditch your assumptions when talking to me. Where have I told you I am an idealist?

Alright, I guess you did not read what I wrote well as I don't know how I imply that you are an idealist. I said your belief system are in ANTITHESIS to the idealist world view.

Did I not tell you that my worldview is not atheistic so why are surprised that my presuppositions are not based on disbelief?

1. We don't know.

2. We are a result of natural processes.
You are not just being consistent and maybe not truthful with yourself. Your answers to the question proved that already. They are answers provided by those who start with the axioms that there is no God.
1. They gave many hypothesis which are being over turned by later understanding of the universe. But they all have an a priori belief that it MUST exclude God. This is consistent with atheistic worldview
2. Thought there is no prove that we are here through natural processes alone but such answer is necessary in order to exclude God as a creator who made the universe and made earth for living forms with laws governing the operation of everything. In fact, this second answer is enough to prove that it derives from atheistic worldview. All I need to ask is what are the natural process that you are referring to? If I limit it to our existence, how did the natural processes bring us into existence?

I don't think I want to have this conversation with you since you don't want to take correction because I don't know how many times I'll have to point out that there is nothing like atheistic worldview and I certainly do not have an atheistic worldview. If you cannot let go of this your grip on what has pointed out to be wrong then you are not worth having a conversation with.

LordReed:


I don't think I want to have this conversation with you since you don't want to take correction because I don't know how many times I'll have to point out that there is nothing like atheistic worldview and I certainly do not have an atheistic worldview. If you cannot let go of this your grip what has pointed out to be wrong then you are not worth having a conversation with.

He is determined to disturb your peace for no reason.
Damn!!!
The worst thing is that he has no point.

keppler:

Still wrong. Atheism is not the opposite of Christianity
I never implied that Atheism is the opposite of Christianity

You wrote Christianity or atheism, are they the only positions on the issue?

There were atheists before Christianity
Sure! Atheism rejects the concept of God before Jesus came (which maybe argued to be the foundation for Christian principles) but that is not the main issue. The main issue is that it rejects the idea of God as its presupposition, hence it has alternative for those philosophical questions. Many of the age long thinkers clearly answered such questions before. Though, a Christian worldview provides an explanation for why atheism exist and why they surely have alternative explanation to how the universe came to be

Atheism doesn't answer the question of how the universe came to be. Atheist have to find explanations elsewhere and best method known to us is science. This is why many conflate atheism with science.

Also who says God or no god needs to also answer how the universe was created? That is a nonsequitur
No body says that but it is what is observed in real time. Theists (Christians especially) believes that God made the universe (as revealed in his word). The other clearly rejects the notion of God (and the Bible) and hence propose alternatives (such as the universe is eternal, it came from nothing, etc). But I get, folks don't want to be cornered just as evolutionists would avoid the question of the first life form, hence claim that it has nothing to do with the theory

It's not about being cornered or not. Evolution does not say anything about origins of life but you want to force it to, similarly atheism says nothing about origin of the universe yet you want to force it to.

HellVictorinho:

So, it's your question.
I thought it was the Dtruthspeaker that asked me.
I don't answer stupid questions by people like Dtruthspeaker..

See, your soul needs Complete Replacement, like a bad ECU and transmission, it is irreparable!

So Park yourself at home, for you are completely damaged and irreparably damaged and A Danger to the Society and you do not really care about yourself, so no need to include you!

Dtruthspeaker:


See, your soul needs Complete Replacement, like a bad ECU and transmission, it is irreparable!

So Park yourself at home, for you are completely damaged and irreparably damaged and A Danger to the Society and you do not really care about yourself, so no need to include you!

You are a liar that denies that he lies.
I have told budaatum to expect what she gives.
If she says I'm lazy, I'll say she's lazy.
If she says I don't understand,I'll say the same.
That's what you and her deserve.

LordReed:


You wrote Christianity or atheism, are they the only positions on the issue?



Atheism doesn't answer the question of how the universe came to be. Atheist have to find explanations elsewhere and best method known to us is science. This is why many conflate atheism with science.



It's not about being cornered or not. Evolution does not say anything about origins of life but you want to force it to, similarly atheism says nothing about origin of the universe yet you want to force it to.

Don't allow keppler to frustrate you with his pointlessness.

HellVictorinho:

He is determined to disturb your peace for no reason.
Damn!!!
The worst thing is that he has no point.

Well, still waiting for him to get to it. Meanwhile he just seems weirdly stuck on insisting I have an atheistic worldview, even after correction.

HellVictorinho:


Don't allow keppler to frustrate you with his pointlessness.

Never. If I am discussing with someone and I point out something they say that is patently wrong but they insist, I take my leave.

HellVictorinho:

So, it's your question.
I thought it was the Dtruthspeaker that asked me.
I don't answer stupid questions by people like Dtruthspeaker.
Well, LordReed ,I'll answer you because you are honest on Nairaland.
You don't accuse people anyhow.
You are not so proud.
But keppler has decided to disturb my life.
He thinks he's being smart but he's just being stupid actually.
I was disappointed when budaatum agreed to his bullshit.
Both of them attacked me for no reason.
Damn!
It's not a rap battle.
I shouldn't be quoted baselessly.

Maybe you should get them to come do a rap battle with you. LoL!

LordReed:


Well, still waiting for him to get to it. Meanwhile he just seems weirdly stuck on insisting I have an atheistic worldview, even after correction.

He is accusing you of having what you lack.
Dtruthspeaker accused me of not understanding English.
Ihedinobi3 did something and denied doing it.
They are all scammers.
They lie to you but they expect you to accept it as the truth.

LordReed:


Maybe you should get them to come do a rap battle with you. LoL!

Ha ha ha.

Dtruthspeaker:


See, your soul needs Complete Replacement, like a bad ECU and transmission, it is irreparable!

So Park yourself at home, for you are completely damaged and irreparably damaged and A Danger to the Society and you do not really care about yourself, so no need to include you!

Ha! I just see various and severe sparks all over the place kpa-kpoo, kakaa-kpakpo, katakata-booom!

This is Serious ooo!

truespeak:


Ha! I just see various and severe sparks all over the place kpa-kpoo, kakaa-kpakpo, katakata-booom!

This is Serious ooo!

hee hee hee

HellVictorinho:

He is accusing you of having what you lack.
Dtruthspeaker accused me of not understanding English.
Ihedinobi3 did something and denied doing it.
They are all scammers.
They lie to you but they expect you to accept it as the truth.

You- Vehicle has Too Many Fault and Error Codes,

It misfires, overfires, blows fuses, burns bulbs brakes and quenches, accelerates on its own, starts on its own, quenches on its own, sluggish movement, too much rattlings and batterings, out of alignment, engine.revs wildly, men this vehicle is meant for the Fire!

HellVictorinho:


You are a liar that denies that he lies.
I have told budaatum to expect what she gives.
If she says I'm lazy, I'll say she's lazy.
If she says I don't understand,I'll say the same.
That's what you and her deserve.

Kai! You have still not discerned that budaatum is a "He" neither did you know it

Now I am certain you are still a teenager, still yet to know many things you are supposed to know, No Wonder your target guiding system is not effective for you have none!

And the Too Much Fault Codes!

So, I give you askor!

keppler:

I intentionally phrased it the way I did as I believe that it is possible to know what the Bible clearly teaches as against reading into the Bible what one wants.

I can't make such claim when it comes to understanding of some certain passages, but I believe that the Holy Spirit have helped in helping folks know Sola Scriptura - interpreting scripture with scripture, which is what we see Jesus and his apostles did. That help one not to impose his UNDERSTANDING on the scripture.

By the way, I said I don't like discussing interpretations of scripture. It's why I don't join when Christians are dissecting issues on NL

I know you said you "don't like discussing interpretations of scripture". But you can't dismiss someone else's understanding and expect them to have nothing to say about it.

The Bible is a big subjective book and humans are bound to subjectivity, and those who claim complete objectivity are the most subjective of all for not knowing they are.

The Bible has numerous lessons on this, "Thank you Lord I'm not like that tax collector over there", being a specific teaching of Christ on the subject, along with my favourite, the Parable of the Orangutan that I already mentioned.

It was the constant issue that many who claimed to be objective had with Subjective Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the epitome of that Subjectivity, the grounder, as in, the test if proper understanding being "[url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-31&version=KJV]none other commandment greater than these[/url]", though, as Christ taught, the second is greater since, "inasmuch as one does for those one sees, the God one sees not is worshipped".

Jesus not only Sola Scriptura, he Sola Life Experienced too, and he definitely Sola Opened His Eyes To See, for as he himself said, Those who Sola in one way alone will become malnourished.

Do note that inasmuch as you respond to a post on NL, you have begun dissecting issues on NL. And that's what makes NL the great sangha that it is. We all come here to Sola Learn, even if we think we are Sola Perfect already.

keppler:

Again, I am not arguing against what I feel someone should believe. I am arguing against the concept provided by atheism in a broad sense. Trying to look for strong ground to stand on and deviating from the norm as explained by those whom many of our atheists have learned from is just a form of deception. In fact, I am not attacking straw man, rather I am engaging with what the literature from which they largely grow their arguments. If I used one person's belief (which may be "unorthodox" to atheism) to engage atheism, that is when I attack straw man

I hope you can therefore understand why Lordreed will ask you to go have your argument "with what the literature from which they largely grow their arguments", and not with him.

LordReed:
I don't think I want to have this conversation with you since you don't want to take correction because I don't know how many times I'll have to point out that there is nothing like atheistic worldview and I certainly do not have an atheistic worldview. If you cannot let go of this your grip what has pointed out to be wrong then you are not worth having a conversation with.

He has his own worldview you see, but you want to ignore that and strawman him "with what the literature from which they largely grow their arguments", as if there is some agreement of you both having read the same literature.

Dtruthspeaker:


Kai! You have still not discerned that budaatum is a "He" neither did you know it

Now I am certain you are still a teenager, still yet to know many things you are supposed to know, No Wonder your target guiding system is not effective for you have none!

And the Too Much Fault Codes!

So, I give you askor!

You still don't know or understand that budaatum's gender doesn't matter here.

Dtruthspeaker:


You- Vehicle has Too Many Fault and Error Codes,

It misfires, overfires, blows fuses, burns bulbs brakes and quenches, accelerates on its own, starts on its own, quenches on its own, sluggish movement, too much rattlings and batterings, out of alignment, engine.revs wildly, men this vehicle is meant for the Fire!

You are making noise.

budaatum:

I know you said you "don't like discussing interpretations of scripture". But you can't dismiss someone else's understanding and expect them to have nothing to say about it.

The Bible is a big subjective book and humans are bound to subjectivity, and those who claim complete objectivity are the most subjective of all for not knowing they are.

The Bible has numerous lessons on this, "Thank you Lord I'm not like that tax collector over there", being a specific teaching of Christ on the subject, along with my favourite, the Parable of the Orangutan that I already mentioned.

It was the constant issue that many who claimed to be objective had with Subjective Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the epitome of that Subjectivity, the grounder, as in, the test if proper understanding being "[url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-31&version=KJV]none other commandment greater than these[/url]", though, as Christ taught, the second is greater since, "inasmuch as one does for those one sees, the God one sees not is worshipped".

Jesus not only Sola Scriptura, he Sola Life Experienced too, and he definitely Sola Opened His Eyes To See, for as he himself said, Those who Sola in one way alone will become malnourished.

Do note that inasmuch as you respond to a post on NL, you have begun dissecting issues on NL. And that's what makes NL the great sangha that it is. We all come here to Sola Learn, even if we think we are Sola Perfect already.

What!!!!!!!!!!!
Budaatum says dismissing another person's understanding has repercussions.
Thou shalt not repeat ''Hell is lazy" when Hell is ready to kill as many people as necessary.
unamamatoto tried to frustrate me but I silenced her with $$##&&$$
Goodness!!!!!!
I used the same English to silence her!
Furk life itself!!!!!!!

HellVictorinho:

What!!!!!!!!!!!
Budaatum says dismissing another person's understanding has repercussions.
Thou shalt not repeat ''Hell is lazy" when Hell is ready to kill as many people as necessary.
unamamatoto tried to frustrate me but I silenced her with $$##&&$$
Goodness!!!!!!
I used the same English to silence her!
Furk life itself!!!!!!!

Well, doesn't it have repercussions, not understanding being one obvious one?

Hell, you can't kill a gnat, so don't make out that your lazy understandings count. Some understandings are so pointless and devoid of brain use that one must wisely dismiss them as the rantings of the lazy that they just might happen to be. But if you'd like to ignore our hard working mother on the farms and would rather be taken seriously as a mass murdering terrorist, do please state your location so the appropriate authorities can be informed.

budaatum:


Well, doesn't it have repercussions, not understanding being one obvious one?

Hell, you can't kill a gnat, so don't make out that your lazy understandings count. Some understandings are so pointless and devoid of brain use that one must wisely dismiss them as the rantings of the lazy that they just might happen to be. But if you'd like to ignore our hard working mother on the farms and would rather be taken seriously as a mass murdering terrorist, do please state your location so the appropriate authorities can be informed.

Which goddamn authorities?
You are worse than a terrorist when you falsely accuse and deny it.
You think you are saying the truth but what you are saying remains false.
Both you and those corrupt politicians/policemen/soldiers/etc deserve to be burned!!!!!!!
You want to impose something on Hell's mind!!!!!!
Like Seriously?
If you accuse me of anything from now till you die,I won't agree!!!!!!!
What you call the truth remains a lie!!!!
Tell Buhari to torture me for blasting you!!!!
Furk your philosophy of lazy understanding!!!
How can an honest person describe whatever understanding as lazy??
You accuse but you don't think you should be accused the same way!!!!!
Hypocrisy at its peak!!!!!!
You are good at telling lies!!!!!!
Enter my arena alone with this behavior and see if I won't break your head!!!!
The constitution is wrong if it says you deserve anything different!!!!!!
Furk the government!!!!

Dtruthspeaker:


Good! You got my view! For this was your True and little opinion when The Sourcerer asked

"TheSourcerer:
Let's say if we eventually get convinced of the non existence of satan or and God , what then will be your purpose in life ? How would it change you?

And you IMAliyu answered

"I've ran the mental experiment.

Nothing changes really.

Life goes on, man must still survive, find ways to be good, take care of family etc.

It's like of what consequence is it if I choose to believe that unicorns exist? Me believing or being convinced of there existence, doesn't change how I should act in the world or treat people, at least based on my personal philosophy.

That's why I've humbled my self for this religion matter, though I continue to practice."

what you did not know.was that if there is No God, there would be No Laws, Exactly as when Daddy or Principal has Traveled, the Children Do whatever they like!

The sourcerer posed a hypothetical scenario (and this is suppose to be the education section, one should be able to explore an idea without necessarily agreeing with them.), I gave my answer, based on my personal understanding as someone who has thought through it before.
And I've found that hardly anything changes personally.
The people you care for, you don't just stop caring for overnight.
Your sense of fairness and justice (if you had one) doesn't stop existing.
Your desire for survival doesn't end either.
And your base personality hardly ever changes.
Here is the thing, there is more in people than the religion they believe in. As we look into the world we clearly see there are good people and bad people everywhere, from every religion and non religion as well.
The majority of people who stop believing and turn to atheism, don't seem to turn into criminals, Muslims who convert to Christianity and vise versa don't become entirely new people either, just because they stop believing in what they were convinced of earlier.

From what I'm understanding in what you are saying, is for you in the op's scenario, is you would do a complete 180°. As the basis of your individual purpose and your behaviour is directly based on your conviction of the existence of your God and without that, then everything is allowed?

HellVictorinho:

The instinct exists for no reason.

need and struggle for survival, from the very first cell .Survival motivates these instinct .