At least we now knw who feeds sahara reporters the lies they have been spreading pre election period!! I hope he is warming up for his jail term when his case comes up and I hope some people will not come and shout foul when he is convicted of corruption!!!!

ayinba1:

@gbawe

You know, sometimes the hard way IS the only way. Your points all seem to make winning the end rather than the means. So do you think that it is okay to be silent on the ills of the opposition just to have a broader appeal?

You are a member of ACN. what do you make of Nuhu Ribadu's political career as it stands now? I am still a fan of NH but I recall when many raised questions about his alliance with Tinubu, he explained it away.

Would you agree that the marriage has cost hi more than the loss in the election?

Buhari took the hard way and even if he did not win this election, he has won in many other ways. I am glad that the last minute Alliance did not work. That would have been a dirty compromise on the General and Pastor Bakare's standards.

there is a thread of over 4 pages where the future of Ribadu has been analysed within the context of what we know in the present.
Gbawe was and still is a major contributor on that thread.
check it out
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=649066.msg8168970#msg8168970

Gbawe:

It does not have to be like that !!! We must learn how to play effective opposition politics in Nigeria as is done in the UK, USA and even in Ghana where Rawlings and Atta-Mills kept up their onslaught against the ruling Party while they were the opposition.

The problem with Nigeria is that , after elections , we accept the results, fold our arms and go home into hibernation for another 4 years . that should not be an option this time around . Bakare showed he can motivate people . Rather than continue to accumulate enemies unduly he should , as his first patriotic act in opposition, rally Nigerians behind patriot like Rev. Ugolor for on onslaught on the insincere National Assembly that refused to pass the PIB . That is how we do it . That is how we use people power to get things done and check the misrule we all complain about yet fail to appreciate that we have the power to stop. This is why I kept asking you what Buhari and co do out of power that will enable every Nigerian get behind them come election time . As an effective opposition Politician , wanting to wrestle power from misruling incumbents, you should not only be active when it is election time .

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/03/pib-protesters-call-for-resignation-of-ekweremadu/

We both on the same page regarding the bolded and this is why i said , the work is now. Bakare , Elrufai and other CPC guys from the south like Kayode Ogundamisi should all be active. I am sure Bakare would continue to motivate and do this. You and me should contribute our own quota as well. Did you get my mail?

ayinba1:

@gbawe

You know, sometimes the hard way IS the only way. Your points all seem to make winning the end rather than the means. So do you think that it is okay to be silent on the ills of the opposition just to have a broader appeal?

You are a member of ACN. what do you make of Nuhu Ribadu's political career as it stands now? I am still a fan of NH but I recall when many raised questions about his alliance with Tinubu, he explained it away.

Would you agree that the marriage has cost hi more than the loss in the election?

Buhari took the hard way and even if he did not win this election, he has won in many other ways. I am glad that the last minute Alliance did not work. That would have been a dirty compromise on the General and Pastor Bakare's standards.

This is where me and Gbawe differ as i am never a believer in the end justifying the means, there are some principles and values i will never bend to win and if i lose so be it as i will be able to sleep with comfort.

You could read the thread Mbuela highlighted for you.

mbulela:

there is a thread of over 4 pages where the future of Ribadu has been analysed within the context of what we know in the present.
Gbawe was and still is a major contributor on that thread.
check it out
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=649066.msg8168970#msg8168970

Thanks, I'll check it out.

El-Rufai is making the same mistake BB made. I pray he learns fast, he is an intelligent guy anyway.

I supported Buhari though even though the lapses (politically) were there. There are some assumptions the BB ticket made which are very wrong

(1) They assumed generality of nigerians hated corruption, many Nigerians are not even aware what corruption was or how bad the situation was. majority don't even know the damage PDP is doing to them.
(2) They assumed that the large crowds at rallies will translate to political movement. No, they are not the same. the crowd actually looked like mob to me only useful for revolution and not politics because the political and election process is a very complex one. Bakare even thought they CPC were the one with the upper hand.
(3) They see things as black and white, this kind of idea is only fit for the mosques and churches, it doesn't work in the real sense. You just have to make compromises and deal with even people you don't like.

@Lagosboy, I think you are too emotional with these issues, it doesn't get anywhere. It will only lead to frustration.

CPC is not an opposition party yet. We need more time to ascertain that.

ayinba1:

@gbawe

You know, sometimes the hard way IS the only way. Your points all seem to make winning the end rather than the means. [/b]So do you think that it is okay to be silent on the ills of the opposition just to have a broader appeal?

You are a member of ACN. what do you make of Nuhu Ribadu's political career as it stands now? I am still a fan of NH but I recall when many raised questions about his alliance with Tinubu, he explained it away.

Would you agree that the marriage has cost hi more than the loss in the election?

Buhari took the hard way and even if he did not win this election, he has won in many other ways. I am glad that the last minute Alliance did not work. That would have been a dirty compromise on the General and Pastor Bakare's standards.

Not true at all . Ideological pontifications , [b]all the time , without pragmatism , can be retroactive in the effort to oust misrule. This is especially true for a Nation like Nigeria where you must be wily to defeat a ruling Party that will use all of Nigeria's wealth , in the quest for electoral victory,  to bribe everyone . Fashola is proof that more can be achieved with his moderate and pragmatic style , in Nigeria , than with the uncompromisingly hardline stance of much loved and respected Gani Fawehinmi. You then , as a focused opposition politician , need a hands-on approach , between election periods, to gain support, visibility and acceptance .

I am just not comfortable with folks thinking they have a divine right to be supported to win when , between elections, those folks do not behave like oppositions who want to win . Anyone who seriously wants to defeat the PDP should start their effort now or save us the finger pointing in 4 years time .

You all keep deifying Buhari with statements like

Buhari took the hard way and even if he did not win this election, he has won in many other ways.

when you do not realise that some can also argue that Buhari failed Nigerians with how he played opposition politics ineffectively . Had Buhari been using his massive clout to motivate Nigerians for the right cause , outside election periods , we may not be having this talk now.

We should now be looking for the next generation who know how to play opposition politics effectively that matches the peculiar mentality of the electorate . I personally believe it is not difficult to defeat the PDP if the opposition has the energy, enthusiasm and ideas to stay the course instead of going to sleep for 4 years and hoping to win magically during election when issues such as the mental divisions of Nigerians still play a huge part in how people vote . If Buhari had a BF ( Buhari foundation) that carried out laudable and voluntary outreach charity work in the SW region would he not have done better in the SW? Even a borehole project in an SW village could have yielded massive electoral dividends for Buhari . Instead our Politicians in opposition remain indolent before election time yet they want to defeat the PDP with 3 months of election campaign alone. When that does not happen , blaming everyone and maligning the character of some (Ribadu, Shekarau, ACN, ANPP et al) is the order of the day when the effective leadership of Nigeria should still be what is most paramount to us all.

Akanbi_edu:

El-Rufai is making the same mistake BB made. I pray he learns fast, he is an intelligent guy anyway.

I supported Buhari though even though the lapses (politically) were there. There are some assumptions the BB ticket made which are very wrong

(1) They assumed generality of nigerians hated corruption, many Nigerians are not even aware what corruption was or how bad the situation was. majority don't even know the damage PDP is doing to them.
(2) They assumed that the large crowds at rallies will translate to political movement. No, they are not the same. the crowd actually looked like mob to me only useful for revolution and not politics because the political and election process is a very complex one. Bakare even thought they CPC were the one with the upper hand.
(3) They see things as black and white, this kind of idea is only fit for the mosques and churches, it doesn't work in the real sense. You just have to make compromises and deal with even people you don't like.

@Lagosboy, I think you are too emotional with these issues, it doesn't get anywhere. It will only lead to frustration.

I agree with the 3 points you raised in principle  but point number 2 i think the process you are talking about involves money which the campaigned lacked and could do nothing about. I am particulalry dissappointed that the voter turn out was only 50% average in the north and that was Buahris undoing. Money is what is needed to bring the remaining 20% on board and CPC did not play the politics which i tihink was due to lack of funds.

On the issue of emotions i will beg to disagree, i accept that i am frustrated with the thought of another 4 years of PDP presidency but emotions has nothing to do with my stand on these issues. What has emotion got to do with me finding interesting the accusation El Rufai made which only butressed the view on the streets.

El Rufai perhaps should not have been the one to say it in CPC but ignoring the messenger I agree with the message.

@ akanbi
So you disagree that there was rigging at collation?

@gbawe
Very strong points.
I agree that the time is now if we really do want to have broader appeal, that is, ACN and CPC.

On the other hand, do you think the ACN senators could possibly sponsor a bill that would
1. Cut the monthly package of senators by a third? Or even a fifth?
2. Reduce the size of government as advised by T. Danjuma?
3. Will they push for FOI to be passed?

I know the PDP Senators will NOT do this, ACN has a good number of seats and could get things rolling.

Guys and gals,
lets get one thing right;the only person expected to have no emotions in a political discussion is a political biographer (a political biography written with bias is useless).
You can't but be emotional about your political persuasion.
the issue is wheh you allow your emotions to override reason or make you resort to insults.
every view that has been expounded in this and similar discourse has been tainted by emotions but that does not make any of them wrong.
What has made some wrong is the faulty foundation or outright lies on which they have been built.

Lagosboy:

We both on the same page regarding the bolded and this is why i said , the work is now. Bakare , Elrufai and other CPC guys from the south like Kayode Ogundamisi should all be active. I am sure Bakare would continue to motivate and do this. You and me should contribute our own quota as well. Did you get my mail?

I got it my brother. Will respond shortly .

You and me should contribute our own quota as well.

I totally agree.

ayinba1:


On the other hand, do you think the ACN senators could possibly sponsor a bill that would
1. Cut the monthly package of senators by a third? Or even a fifth?
2. Reduce the size of government as advised by T. Danjuma?
3. Will they push for FOI to be passed?

I know the PDP Senators will NOT do this, ACN has a good number of seats and could get things rolling.

in the absence of success for such a bill, what even stops them from refusing such a soulless monthly salary for the duration of their term as NASS members?
i have said it before and i repeat,our only hope lies in this coming NASS.
if it is biz as usual, we are finished.Like my SA people say, finished and Klaar!

There is only one thing all the discussions point to and it is the northern elements working with the SW poltiicians, if i will strecth it further CPC working with ACN again for 2015. Can this happen ? or will ACN do it alone building strucutres in the north and CPC will come down south building structures.

I think it would have been better if both parties fuse into one to form a more national party with a national outlook. However personalities of the leaders of both parties and interest might never make this happen. What then is the way foward ? Which direction should we be working for 2015 on the national stage. ACN has no storng presence in the north and likewise CPC in the SW . This is what i think we have to ponder on because the opposition spoke for 3 years preceding 2011 and all talks of mega party led no where. This is not time for the blame game but trusts have been eroded and i am wondering how this will work out for the future.

mbulela:

in the absence of success for such a bill, what even stops them from refusing such a soulless monthly salary for the duration of their term as NASS members?
i have said it before and i repeat,our only hope lies in this coming NASS.
if it is biz as usual, we are finished.Like my SA people say, finished and Klaar!

I dont think the people in NASS ACN, CPC or PDP will do it unless the people power is used in pressurising them to do so. We have to stage continous protests at the national assembly for this to be done. As a matter of fact it is not just their salaries but the money that is allocated to them in the budget is what has to be slashed.

They can cut the wages by 80% and pay them selves in other ways. We have to stop them from allocating above a certain amount of money for themselves

Akanbi_edu:

El-Rufai is making the same mistake BB made. I pray he learns fast, he is an intelligent guy anyway.

I supported Buhari though even though the lapses (politically) were there. There are some assumptions the BB ticket made which are very wrong

(1) They assumed generality of nigerians hated corruption, many Nigerians are not even aware what corruption was or how bad the situation was. majority don't even know the damage PDP is doing to them.

(3) They see things as black and white, this kind of idea is only fit for the mosques and churches, it doesn't work in the real sense. You just have to make compromises and deal with even people you don't like.

for number 1 alone, you deserve a cold pint of bitter  
i will only withhold that pint because that comment is a sad,painful reality.
will this majority of Nigerians learn after 4 years of FRESH AIR?

number 3 is also very instructive.if they must make progress they must work on this.the crux of the matter is where to draw the line.
By the way, i think they are making progress.Bakare would have not chosen to work with Buhari ordinarily.but more progress needs to be made and comments need to be more statemanly.

Lagosboy:

I dont think the people in NASS ACN, CPC or PDP will do it unless the people power is used in pressurising them to do so. We have to stage continous protests at the national assembly for this to be done. As a matter of fact it is not just their salaries but the money that is allocated to them in the budget is what has to be slashed.

They can cut the wages by 80% and pay them selves in other ways. We have to stop them from allocating above a certain amount of money for themselves

i am actually referring to all payments in every guise.
if you are and i can see the disguise, is it difficult for ACN and CPC NASS members to see it and reject it?
do they also need us to stage protest marches for them?

Lagosboy:

There is only one thing all the discussions point to and it is the northern elements working with the SW poltiicians, if i will strecth it further CPC working with ACN again for 2015. Can this happen ? or will ACN do it alone building strucutres in the north and CPC will come down south building structures.

I think it would have been better if both parties fuse into one to form a more national party with a national outlook. However personalities of the leaders of both parties and interest might never make this happen. What then is the way foward ? Which direction should we be working for 2015 on the national stage. ACN has no storng presence in the north and likewise CPC in the SW . This is what i think we have to ponder on because the opposition spoke for 3 years preceding 2011 and all talks of mega party led no where. This is not time for the blame game but trusts have been eroded and i am wondering how this will work out for the future.

this is where my pessimistic nature creeps in.
i doubt the sincerity of purpose of all these men and women.
that is one sad conclusion that just won't let me be.

Lagosboy:

I agree with the 3 points you raised in principle  but point number 2 i think the process you are talking about involves money which the campaigned lacked and could do nothing about. I am particulalry dissappointed that the voter turn out was only 50% average in the north and that was Buahris undoing. Money is what is needed to bring the remaining 20% on board and CPC did not play the politics which i tihink was due to lack of funds.

On the issue of emotions i will beg to disagree, i accept that i am frustrated with the thought of another 4 years of PDP presidency but emotions has nothing to do with my stand on these issues. What has emotion got to do with me finding interesting the accusation El Rufai made which only butressed the view on the streets.

El Rufai perhaps should not have been the one to say it in CPC but ignoring the messenger I agree with the message.

My brother , don't be . In fact , this is the golden opportunity to prove that Nigeria has turned the corner . We should show , with active and constant protestation , the GEJ-led PDP that they must do the right thing or face a Nigeria now motivated and mobilised effectively , in testimony to Amandla Awetu (people's power),  to challenge indolence and misrule . I will only accept your frustrated outlook if you believe that things will be the way it has always been i.e loads of talk with no real actions by the opposition to[b] proactively[/b] hold the ruling Party responsible for its woeful policies and actions.

I , for example , think it is crazy we do not have some political heavyweights joining Rev. Ugolor in his public protest to get the PIB (petroleum industry bill) passed when that bill is simply one of the most important for the progress of Nigeria !!!! We are yet to understand that , even if they have the power , GEJ and the PDP will get away with the misrule we allow them to . It is the opposition political heavyweights we must ask to lead the charge. They cannot sit in their homes , as spectators, watching the efforts of ordinary Nigerians like Rev. Ugolor only for them to show up in 4 years time hoping they will gain the mandate to lead Nigeria.

If Buhari, Bakare, Ribadu, El Rufai, Utomi, Duke, Balarabe Musa et al join Rev. Ugolor to protest the non-passage of the PIB will Ekweremandu have the nerve to call those Nigerians "charlatans"? If the most influential voices don't go to sleep against the PDP then we will surely win through not giving misrule any breathing space . It cannot and should not be Wole Soyinka alone speaking and marching against misrule . You don't need to be in power to make a difference . That is what I don't think old politicians like Buhari, OBJ, IBB, Atiku et al appreciate .

Lagosboy, check out everything I have said displayed in this thread from Jarus:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-650934.0.html

There is no need for tears or frustration. Nigeria has turned the corner . We simply need to apply more united pressure on misrule until it becomes the exception rather than the norm. The article in consideration even highlights what I have stated continuously that , with time , folks will understand the enormity of what the SW has done that will be a template for others . This is why I am not sad or "frustrated" that GEJ won. If opposition political leaders begin to do the right thing to highlight challenge and accost misrule , Nigerians will follow them to accost the misrulers .

Needless to say I did not vote for Jonathan because I believe Buhari would have made a better president. Even then, the recent spate of violence and arson in some parts of the north, understandable as it is, is tragic and unfortunate. I am, like a lot of people are, disgusted with the PDP’s habit or rigging and challenging those cheated to go to court. It smacks of arrogance and impunity. Still, it is imperative that this mayhem ends. We must all join hands to prevail on the Northern youth to stop. They should as an alternative, seize the opportunity offered by the betrayals and rigging by their rulers to ensure that they follow the Yoruba example. They should start ensuring that their preferred party captures their states so that next time around there will be no oppressor in power at that level who could steal their votes.

This is important not just to entrench democracy but to end our enslavement to a few politicians and their families. With or without Jonathan, Bello, Anenih or Tafida the northern states will survive. And Nigeria is bigger than all of us. Whoever is in power, the sun will rise tomorrow. Our people need water, schools, hospitals, roads, houses, food and jobs. These are mostly the responsibility of our local leaders. So, instead of lamenting and burning, let us organize to get those who are fond of stealing our money, and our votes, out of office. Killing them or burning their houses is wrong, illegal and un-Islamic and may even prove counter-productive. Those who steal our money or our votes should be dealt with through due process of law. Yes, some of us will feel cheated because our candidate did not lose fair and square but anger and violence are not the solution. Don’t get mad; get even.

I must commend u guys for objectively analysing the el- rufai piece without the usual ethno-religious mindsets. I think for once the north is really thrown into the opposition, I say this because even during obj era some part of the north were instrumental in his victory. But now virtually all northern states r in opposition, let's see how they fare on that side, and perhaps this revive poli tics of merit in the north

BIGER BOY:

I must commend u guys for objectively analysing the el- rufai piece without the usual ethno-religious mindsets. I think for once the north is really thrown into the opposition, I say this because even during obj era some part of the north were instrumental in his victory. But now virtually all northern states r in opposition, let's see how they fare on that side, and perhaps this revive poli tics of merit in the north

Gbam !!!! Just like Ribadu challenged the NPLF to do after "business as usual" Atiku lost to GEJ and the NPLF still hesitated to endorse Buhari or Ribadu.

Well , the dynamics of Nigerian politics have changed forever!!

Gbawe:

Lagosboy, check out everything I have said displayed in this thread from Jarus:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-650934.0.html

There is no need for tears or frustration. Nigeria has turned the corner . We simply need to apply more united pressure on misrule until it becomes the exception rather than the norm. The article in consideration even highlights what I have stated continuously that , with time , folks will understand the enormity of what the SW has done that will be a template for others . This is why I am not sad or "frustrated" that GEJ won. If opposition political leaders begin to do the right thing to highlight challenge and accost misrule , Nigerians , will follow them to accost the misrulers .

I agree that the SW has done well by voting out the rougues. What was more pleasing to me was the SW elections were largely free of the sophisiticated rigging in other regions. It gives me hope that younger ones can win election without a god father if they have the clout, money and brain.

If CPC can get 3 to 4 states in the north on saturday and develops these statesin 4 years the other PDP states wil fall like a pack of cards.

ayinba1:

@ akanbi
So you disagree that there was rigging at collation?

Agreeing and disagreeing does not make much difference to me. The most important thing is that Jonathan has been declared the president-elect. This is the main point, how long am I going to be at the receiving end? A good leader should factor in all the conditions including the "abnormal", which is rigging in this case, before making his/her decisions. This is what Tinubu was saying since, he knew they had no chance without a combined force. I remember saying on this forum that there are many ways to win an election. We are up against a monstrous incumbent. Damn. A lot of people have no idea how bad things are.

Tinubu whould have helped Buhari transform his "MOB" to a political force and all those northern elites, working tirelessly for GEJ, would have fallen in line. They are human beings experienced in the game, they can smell a new force even in their sleep. Without the alliance, winning PDP was not possible under the circumstances.

It's just the way of the world, things are not as simple as they seem.

Elrufai goofed with his analysis, that he choose to put the loss down to rigging is wrong and a total fallacy; In all pre-election analysis nad permutations of the regions; what regions outcome was different; what analysis was the driving force of CPC campaign strategy and what was their expection of voting patterns for each region of the federation. This for me is where El rufai should have started his analysis from rather than joining the cheap bandwagn of we were rigged out ; most especially if he sees himself as the heir apparent to Buhari.

It was An Opportunity Lost- Analyse it; learn from your mistake and move on, if truly Buhari believes the cant get justice in courts or wont bother, he should have accepted the result congratulated the winner and set to work to make sure that PDP is uprooted from the North. The Longer this troubles continue in the north, the more CPC brand is being damaged with the same cloak of Islamist Fanatic; Northern Interest only paint that Buharit was painted with.

What am perved about is what happened last week saturday was not too distant from the NASS election especially in the North. Even in the SW although PDP was voted out, they still commanded high votes and in some states like Ogun, their loss was occassioned by infighting rather than better opposition performance ; PDP still remains a powerful force that it will require constant performance from ACN to keep them at bay, PDP won a rep seat in Ikorodu in lagos last year.

Very interesting comments from El Rufai there.

Lagosboy:

Well , the dynamics of Nigerian politics have changed forever!!

I agree that the SW has done well by voting out the rougues. What was more pleasing to me was the SW elections were largely free of the sophisiticated rigging in other regions. It gives me hope that younger ones can win election without a god father if they have the clout, money and brain.

If CPC can get 3 to 4 states in the north on saturday and develops these statesin 4 years the other PDP states wil fall like a pack of cards.

True.

@Moves: No, he was right. People as we speak are looking more closely at the turnout data, and comparing it to the turnout that took place the previous week in the NASS elections. Very strange magic seems to have happened. . . to radically boost turnout in certain SS and SE states.

Have no fear, all mysteries, lies and frauds will be uncovered in due time

ekt_bear:

@Moves: No, he was right. People as we speak are looking more closely at the turnout data, and comparing it to the turnout that took place the previous week in the NASS elections. Very strange magic seems to have happened. . . to radically boost turnout in certain SS and SE states.

Have no fear, all mysteries, lies and frauds will be uncovered in due time

No you forgot that the disappointment of 2nd April affected the turn out on the 9th. You cannot compare!.
In fact I monitored a polling unit in front of my house through a friend who told me on the 9th that the number cannot be compared to the number out there on the 2nd of April. When I inquired about the turn out on the presidential day, i was told that the crowd was enormous. I am talking about the South east here.