I must leave this zoo by force.

FarahAideed:
We allowed you remove fuel subsidy before but you kept adding it back and you have refused to fix refineries

Because if they removed it trutfully, by now fuel would be costing almost, if not more than N300 instead of the N162 it costs now.

Also, why fix refienreis, and keep the price controls that are neccessary for a subsidy ? At the end of the day, the refienreis would run at a loss...and would continue to break down after a few years of running....and remember we got bad refinereis because years of subsidy meant that they were not able to run at a profit.

There is a reason why your hero GEJ wanted to remove subsidies...and it was for very good and economically sounbd reasons. But since you Nigerians want fuel at N20 per liter...

Lazycapitalist2:
As usual, Nigerians want fuel for free, without an idea as to how expensive fuel really is

Ok, fuel subsidy has to go. Now, I don't like APC, and neither do i like PDP, but I am here to say that fuel subsidy needs to go.

1.First, it costs over a trillion naira annually to keep fuel at the price it is right now. Money that we do not have because since 2014, oil has been at a price that is too low to sustain us, and if we keep on keeping the subsidy, we would end up taking more loans to keep our head above water.

2.Second, we are inessence subsidisng the whole West African subregion, at our expense. On average, fuel costs twice as much in the rest of ECOWAS region, compared to us, and unless we totally close down every border, and build a wall that encompasses the whole country, smuggling is going to continue, so either we end subsidy, or continue paying for the whole West Africa to enjoy subsidsed fuel at our expense.

3.We cannot have new refinereis, more than what we have, plus the NNPC refienres are broken down because subsidy. Because when you subsidsie fuel, that means that the refinereis run at al loss, meaning not enough money to fix them well. We have been running our refienreis at a loss since the late 1980's. And unless subsidy goes, not only would they continue to be out of repair, but even new ones like Dangote will end up like the NNPC refinereis, because you cannot run them at a loss.

4.Even the poverty excuse runs lame. Niger, Mali, Burkina, Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, are all porrer than us, yet they pay more for fuel. Ghana and BENIN AND Niger all have crude, even Chad, yet fuel costs over N300 per liter. If they are surviving, why can't we...and yes, I am sorry for being harsh, but it is the truth.

5.Subsidy is somehting that is prone to serious corruption. Whether it is the transporter claiming subsidy for oil never lifted, or the marketer claiming subsidy for oil not sold in Nigeria, but in Cameroonor Niger or Benin, at a profit...it is a nidus for corrution. Asking government to keep subsidisng corruption...when we don't have the money...is bad.


So, I agree 100% with the ministe.r And yes, I HATE APC, I LOATHE THE PARTY, just as i loathed PDP. But we cannot keep on throwing 1.2 trillion naira down a big hole every year. We have to attract investment and jobs, and increas eproduction...and the only way is by removign subsidy.

So before you quote me to abuse me and talk grammar, read these points. And focus on the diagram attached. And see why subsidy is bad. We cannot continue like this. We have destroyed our domestic oil industry, and we now pay other countries dollars to develop their oil industry, all because we want cheap fuel

Quick question, if the naira were still N160 to 1 dollar, would the price of petrol at 160 still be the cheapest in the region?

Tell the federal government to return the naira to its previous value before trying to confuse with foolish talk

chatinent:
Timipre who failed as a governor! How can he produce anything successful?

how did he fail? Who undemocratically forced him out?

Lazycapitalist2:


Yes, and it was a scam, not because of GEJ....who I don't like, but because of the follwoing reasons

1.Subsidy means that fuel was sold cheaper than other African countries...meaning that at the end of the day, subsidsed fuel was being smugguled abroad by the tanker.....

2.At the time, marketers were also importing fuel too...and subsidy meant they were selling it at a loss...meaning that at the end of the day, either they embarked on fake scarcity at the end of the year to make enough cash on the black market to balance their books.

3.People were lying on how much fuel they imported, and sold...and claiming subsidy, because at the end of the day, it was the only way they could make profits to cover their losses from selling subsidised fuel.

That's why GEJ wanted to remove subsidy, but your party...or the people who now lead your party, protested against it, and succesfully led the people to stop it. So, at the end of the day, GEJ was forced to keep on spending trillions annually propping up the massive scam

Now, your people are in power, and have seen the problem with susbsidy.

Good thing is, everyone now realize subsidy has to go

musa234:
Always supporting baba no matter what he does.. If we cannot tell these politicians the truth, irrespective of party affiliation ,tribe or personal gains, then we are also part of the problems.

You have every right to call me a blind supporter only if I lied.


Is it a lie that Jonathan subsidies didn't guarantee product availability?


Is it a lie that we have been having constant product supply since Buhari came in?



Which government subsidy would you rather have?


The one that you will sleep at gas station for days before you can buy, or the one that you can drive in anytime and buy?

Sirjamo:
Good thing is, everyone now realize subsidy has to go

So, why did your party or your politcal grouping oppose it in 2012?

Mr minister of state for petroleum, do you understand that PMS subsidy affect the common man positively? The common man apply PMS for his power generating set. I am a typical common man; I have no CAR(s) yet but I apply PMS to power my generator at HOME and my iCT training center. Have a rethink minister!

If there is subsidy why is the price of fuel high?

Tianamen1:


Quick question, if the naira were still N160 to 1 dollar, would the price of petrol at 160 still be the cheapest in the region?

It would still be, because government would still be paying a subsidy....and this time, people would be arguing that they should because oil prices then...ie crude oil...would be high enough to fund subsidies

Tell the federal government to return the naira to its previous value before trying to confuse with foolish talk

Thanks for calling me foolish.

Also, which is foolish...removing subsidy and seeing an increase in investment, and in private refinereis, plus NNPC earns enough to repair existing refienreis...which means more jobs, and more income, and a stronger naira.......or keeping subsidy and keep on throwing down naira in the millions down a hole of corruption and thievery.

I doubt I am being foolish.

Let's be honest...if you were in business, and I forced you to sell below the price you can sell at to make a profit...so as to help 'poor' people....you would run at a loss...and end up going out of business, or engaging in sharp practices to stay in business.

Lazycapitalist2:


So, why did your party or your politcal grouping oppose it in 2012?

Politics. If it was your party in the opposition back then, they would have done exactly the same.

helinues:
Continue deceiving yourself...

After wasting millions of dollars to campaign against the removal of fuel subsidy, Apc is now 5 years + in power still want to be telling us bull and co.ck story.

Oshisco

Wonderful! Is this wailing really coming from helinues or did someone hack your account?

Sirjamo:
Politics. If it was your party in the opposition back then, they would have done exactly the same.

And thanks to their poltics, we are suffering the bondage of a subsidy that by the way has come to bite your party in the back badly.

Let's be frank, I did not like PDP back in 2012. But there are times when you don't play poltics with the economy.

Now your party is in the same shoes, and has been in the same issue since 2015. Yet, because they are polticans, they have maintained a subsidy regimen that has done more harm than good for our economy.

At some point, we Nigerians have to start making hard decsions, and dump the poltics.

We deserve this wicked govt since we that is we want

Shocking to hear this from a sane person
Quick question: did you remember Buhari saying nothing like subsidy? Now he's shouting subsidy is no longer sustainable? How do you support such inconsistency in a govt that conned nigerians to come to power
Also, despite Jona's shortcomings, fuel supply hick-ups marred this regime as well despite the astronomical increase in price
Guy, what is wrong is wrong, bubu failed right from the beginning even Tinubu cannot talk this regime out of the mess they put this nation!
Jona wanted to remove subsidy so fuel availability could be guaranteed but bubu and his gang conned Nigerians into believing Jona was taking a step to destroy the nation but 5 years later bubu successfully did what Jona could not do!
Guy, stop all this your trash talk i beg

Sirjamo:
You have every right to call me a blind supporter only if I lied.


Is it a lie that Jonathan subsidies didn't guarantee product availability?


Is it a lie that we have been having constant product supply since Buhari came in?



Which government subsidy would you rather have?


The one that you will sleep at gas station for days before you can buy, or the one that you can drive in anytime and buy?

It has never been this bad in Nigeria


May the anger of the Almighty God fall on everyone that contributed in bringing in this mess. To your fourth generation you shall know no peace.

oloriooko:
Shocking to hear this from a sane person
Quick question: did you remember Buhari saying nothing like subsidy? Now he's shouting subsidy is no longer sustainable? How do you support such inconsistency in a govt that conned nigerians to come to power
Also, despite Jona's shortcomings, fuel supply hick-ups marred this regime as well despite the astronomical increase in price
Guy, what is wrong is wrong, bubu failed right from the beginning even Tinubu cannot talk this regime out of the mess they put this nation!
Jona wanted to remove subsidy so fuel availability could be guaranteed but bubu and his gang conned Nigerians into believing Jona was taking a step to destroy the nation but 5 years later bubu successfully did what Jona could not do!
Guy, stop all this your trash talk i beg

You are arguing with blind bats. People who will see Ganduje stuff in money in his agbada but still hail him to victory while calling a legit business man a thief. Leave these idiots alone

common sense would have told you guys to repair our refineries since u came to power,but u guys are more comfortable with million of dollars u make from the import of fuel. This is another plan to make Nigerians suffer more hardship. if u know you have nonthing to offer the country why contest in an Election?

This is not the best of times we are yearning for as a nation. Unending macroeconomic quagmires in the midst of security crisis.

Bad Govt,why can't they reduced their salaries,and that of senetors to balance up.

proclinician:


Mannabbq own go be 6000 years. Foolish people. Just imagine somebody like buhari that cannot compose a tweet or an email message.

That daura man matter? Hmmmmm, abeg discussing him us a total waste of time nah, cos there's never any good attribute attached to his name

Lazycapitalist2:


It would still be, because government would still be paying a subsidy....and this time, people would be arguing that they should because oil prices then...ie crude oil...would be high enough to fund subsidies



Thanks for calling me foolish.

Also, which is foolish...removing subsidy and seeing an increase in investment, and in private refinereis, plus NNPC earns enough to repair existing refienreis...which means more jobs, and more income, and a stronger naira.......or keeping subsidy and keep on throwing down naira in the millions down a hole of corruption and thievery.

I doubt I am being foolish.

Let's be honest...if you were in business, and I forced you to sell below the price you can sell at to make a profit...so as to help 'poor' people....you would run at a loss...and end up going out of business, or engaging in sharp practices to stay in business.

Some of us have trashed out this subsidy discussion over the last 9 years now and I am quite tired of repeating the same points with new fellows who keep bringing up the same failed points. Sorry for calling glyou foolish.

In 2007,
-crude oil sold at $70 per barrel
-Petrol sold at N75 locally
-The dollar rate was between 120 and 130 Naira per dollar
-Nigeria paid little to no subsidies.

What happened that things are so bad now?

INFLATION

Why, because Nigerians consume much more imported products than we export.

Take cement for example, even though cement is locally produced, the price keeps going higher because the naira keeps losing value.

When the naira loses Value, its effect is like a tax on all Nigerians, a tax that disproportionally affects poorer Nigerians.

Nigeria has one of the lowest tax to GDP ratios on earth. A proper progressive taxation system would properly balance the effects of increasing prices on all Nigerians, a fairer tax system, but the federal government refuses to implement proper taxation for two obvious reasons; it would affect them more and middle income and richer Nigerians would demand more from the government if they paid taxes.

The point of my argument is that letting the naira lose value and pushing the cost unto the masses without richer Nigerians bearing a proportional cost only increases poverty and would lead to future devaluations of the naira as opposed to your beliefs on increased investments in refineries.

Tianamen1:


Some of us have trashed out this subsidy discussion over the last 9 years now and I am quite tired of repeating the same points with new fellows who keep bringing up the same failed points. Sorry for calling glyou foolish.

In 2007,
-crude oil sold at $70 per barrel
-Petrol sold at N75 locally
-The dollar rate was between 120 and 130 Naira per dollar
-Nigeria paid little to no subsidies.

What happened that things are so bad now?

INFLATION

Why, because Nigerians consume much more imported products than we export.

Take cement for example, even though cement is locally produced, the price keeps going higher because the naira keeps losing value.

When the naira loses Value, its effect is like a tax on all Nigerians, a tax that disproportionally affects poorer Nigerians.

Nigeria has one of the lowest tax to GDP ratios on earth. A proper progressive taxation system would properly balance the effects of increasing prices on all Nigerians, a fairer tax system, but the federal government refuses to implement proper taxation for two obvious reasons; it would affect them more and middle income and richer Nigerians would demand more from the government if they paid taxes.

The point of my argument is that letting the naira lose value and pushing the cost unto the masses without richer Nigerians bearing a proportional cost only increases poverty and would lead to future devaluations of the naira as opposed to your beliefs on increased investments in refineries.

On the other hand, keeping the price of fuel artifically low since the late 1980's has led to the situation where we have

1.Bad refinereis, because there isn't enough of a profit being made to pay for the continous upgrade and maintenace of the refinereis...NNPC right now is running at a loss to sustain the current subsidy regimen

2.No investment...unless your name is Dangote. Who wants to come and build a refinery where you end up running it at a loss ..

Yes, I agree with your taxation issue....especially as

1.30% of the taxable populaiton actually pays tax...which is due to

2.60-70% OF THE populaiton being in the informal sector.

And then there is the fact that any effort made to widen the tax base is met with resistance.

It is a hard conundrum...but at some point, if we want more jobs and more income and even increased production of petrol...to the point we export......subsidy has to go. Or taxes have to go up massively.

Meanwhile...Nigeria has to industrialize....we cannot continue relying on oil.

Lazycapitalist2:


They are, but the problem is, they are now sustaining huge losses to keep on being the only importer.

As for busienssmen benefitting....the truth is, they do so in two ways

1.Smugglue fuel across the boder to sell and make a profit

2.Lie on subsidy claims. (transporters too)

If subsidy goes, both these things will stop....though sadly fuel prices will go up

Subsidy should go but PMS import right should return to the private sector.

oloriooko:
Shocking to hear this from a sane person
Quick question: did you remember Buhari saying nothing like subsidy? Now he's shouting subsidy is no longer sustainable? How do you support such inconsistency in a govt that conned nigerians to come to power
Also, despite Jona's shortcomings, fuel supply hick-ups marred this regime as well despite the astronomical increase in price
Guy, what is wrong is wrong, bubu failed right from the beginning even Tinubu cannot talk this regime out of the mess they put this nation!
Jona wanted to remove subsidy so fuel availability could be guaranteed but bubu and his gang conned Nigerians into believing Jona was taking a step to destroy the nation but 5 years later bubu successfully did what Jona could not do!
Guy, stop all this your trash talk i beg

Answer the question if you can.

Each president ran a subsidy regime. One made the product available, the other always give us scarcity, which is better?


Stop writing long epistles, just tell which did better as far as fuel supply is concerned.

Sirjamo:
Answer the question if you can.

Each president ran a subsidy regime. One made the product available, the other always give us scarcity, which is better?


Stop writing long epistles, just tell which did better as far as fuel supply is concerned.

Don't want to defend Jona....but the reason why scarcity happened under his regime was simple.

Back under Jona, and under Buhari till 2016/7, everyone imported fuel. But because subsidy meant that they had to sell the fuel at a loss, many were forced to engage in sharp practices like artifical scarcity (and lying about what they actually imported...but that's another story)...to earn enough money to balance their books at the end of every year..via the black market (and smuggling).

What Buhari did was to force NNPC to be the sole importer and 'subsidiser' of fuel from 2017 onward....which ended periodic scarcity, but forced NNPC to subsidse fuel at great expense to itself....which is part of the reason why they cannot fix their refinereis...they are spending all the money a subsidsing fuel.(Buhari also paid off longstanding subsidy claims, which the government had found ti difficult to pay...from 2013 onwards...which is why Jona wanted to remove subsidy in 2012...his advisers had seen the problems ahead)

The problem is still there. It is because NNPC has taken all the burdens on itself that you don't see it much. But right now, NNPC is struggling to pay for subsides and imports....to the point that they can no longer remit money to government...and delcining oil revenues since 2014 means that there is no loose cash to cover the cracks as in the past.

Lazycapitalist2:


On the other hand, keeping the price of fuel artifically low since the late 1980's has led to the situation where we have

1.Bad refinereis, because there isn't enough of a profit being made to pay for the continous upgrade and maintenace of the refinereis...NNPC right now is running at a loss to sustain the current subsidy regimen

2.No investment...unless your name is Dangote. Who wants to come and build a refinery where you end up running it at a loss ..

Yes, I agree with your taxation issue....especially as

1.30% of the taxable populaiton actually pays tax...which is due to

2.60-70% OF THE populaiton being in the informal sector.

And then there is the fact that any effort made to widen the tax base is met with resistance.

It is a hard conundrum...but at some point, if we want more jobs and more income and even increased production of petrol...to the point we export......subsidy has to go. Or taxes have to go up massively.

Meanwhile...Nigeria has to industrialize....we cannot continue relying on oil.

Even when Dangote's refinery comes on stream, and the government totally removes subsidies, prices of fuel and electricity will keep rising. If all the refineries in Nigeria were working, the price of fuel in Nigeria will keep rising.

Dangote produces cement here, yet the price keeps rising. Why subsidies exist is because the price of fuel in Nigeria keeps rising whether the international price of crude rises or not.

Please try to study and understand why this inflation occurs here.

Removing subsidies does not solve any problem whatsoever. Are fuel subsidies good? No.

Is increasing prices of fuel worse on an economy than subsidizing prices? may be.

How should Nigeria solve its rising local energy prices which are occurring because of the forever falling value of the naira?

My answer:

-tax the rich on their properties such as houses and cars as it is done in every civilized country

- increase the VAT to the same level with our neighboring countries

- spend revenue from taxation on improving basic education.

This is how you solve our energy cost problems whether you keep subsidies or not, it wouldn't matter. Subsidies would naturally disappear as the naira gains value.

My point is that you are fighting the wrong battle. This is a systemic problem, a macro problem, and not one solved by simply building refineries.

FUEL to SELL for N241 in June no say I no tell you o

adenigga:

Source: https://m.punchng.com/Why-fuel-subsidy-cant-continue-FG

We must continue, eradicate the fraud surrounding it!

FarahAideed:
We allowed you remove fuel subsidy before but you kept adding it back and you have refused to fix refineries , even when it leaked you were still paying subsidy your useless came out to deny it and then later called it " UNDER RECOVERY" and now you want to blame Nigerians for the subsidy as if we caused it....

The Buhari subsidy has been shrouded in so much secrecy to hide the brazen corruption going on there ...NNPC is the one lying to itself by claiming daily consumption big fuel is above 60 million litres when in reality it's now even below 22 million litres which means a corrupt cabal has frittered away trillions of naira in falsified subsidy payment since Buhari came

inflation bro.
fuel original price in 2016 is different from 2020.
on the other hand this our fuel subsidy is for our neighbouring countries not us.
all our neigbouring countries sells fuel at a more expensive rate thereby exporting/smuggling subsidize fuel from Nigeria..

Lazycapitalist2:
As usual, Nigerians want fuel for free, without an idea as to how expensive fuel really is

Ok, fuel subsidy has to go. Now, I don't like APC, and neither do i like PDP, but I am here to say that fuel subsidy needs to go.

1.First, it costs over a trillion naira annually to keep fuel at the price it is right now. Money that we do not have because since 2014, oil has been at a price that is too low to sustain us, and if we keep on keeping the subsidy, we would end up taking more loans to keep our head above water.

2.Second, we are inessence subsidisng the whole West African subregion, at our expense. On average, fuel costs twice as much in the rest of ECOWAS region, compared to us, and unless we totally close down every border, and build a wall that encompasses the whole country, smuggling is going to continue, so either we end subsidy, or continue paying for the whole West Africa to enjoy subsidsed fuel at our expense.

3.We cannot have new refinereis, more than what we have, plus the NNPC refienres are broken down because subsidy. Because when you subsidsie fuel, that means that the refinereis run at al loss, meaning not enough money to fix them well. We have been running our refienreis at a loss since the late 1980's. And unless subsidy goes, not only would they continue to be out of repair, but even new ones like Dangote will end up like the NNPC refinereis, because you cannot run them at a loss.

4.Even the poverty excuse runs lame. Niger, Mali, Burkina, Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, are all porrer than us, yet they pay more for fuel. Ghana and BENIN AND Niger all have crude, even Chad, yet fuel costs over N300 per liter. If they are surviving, why can't we...and yes, I am sorry for being harsh, but it is the truth.

5.Subsidy is somehting that is prone to serious corruption. Whether it is the transporter claiming subsidy for oil never lifted, or the marketer claiming subsidy for oil not sold in Nigeria, but in Cameroonor Niger or Benin, at a profit...it is a nidus for corrution. Asking government to keep subsidisng corruption...when we don't have the money...is bad.


So, I agree 100% with the ministe.r And yes, I HATE APC, I LOATHE THE PARTY, just as i loathed PDP. But we cannot keep on throwing 1.2 trillion naira down a big hole every year. We have to attract investment and jobs, and increas eproduction...and the only way is by removign subsidy.

So before you quote me to abuse me and talk grammar, read these points. And focus on the diagram attached. And see why subsidy is bad. We cannot continue like this. We have destroyed our domestic oil industry, and we now pay other countries dollars to develop their oil industry, all because we want cheap fuel

na u dey give dis our corrupt leader mind...make ipob n afonjas catch u, u go yeh wuen

This useless government of Buhari and APC should resign now for your incompetence.