Leviticus 20:10
New International Version
10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

God said whoever worships as in bows before any images must be killed! Deuteronomy 13:6-11

So how many people do you think we will be killing per day?

tolutejuilori:
Leviticus 20:10
New International Version
10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

amen

That was before Jesus Christ came. Now there's room for repentance and forgiveness. We no longer in the era of instant judgement but Grace.

Embrace Christ and his teachings.
Embrace Grace.

"he is without sin should cast his stone"...we all have sinned....he who loves sin should comtinue in his sin. God is the judge.

12rev:
"he is without sin should cast his stone"...we all have sinned....he who loves sin should comtinue in his sin. God is the judge.

We have sinned but not all continue in sin. Even Jesus Christ made this known to us when He declared that He had not come to save those who were already righteous but instead those who were still stuck in sin.

So stop using that verse to confuse yourself into remaining a slave to sin. Listen instead to Jesus Christ who commands you to be holy even as your Father in Heaven is Holy and rise above sin.

Even the adulterous woman was told, by Jesus Christ , to go and SIN NO MORE. So what excuse do you have to continue in sin?

Old testament is more violent than quran

Kobojunkie:
We have sinned but not all continue in sin. Even Jesus Christ made this known to us when He declared that He had not come to save those who were already righteous but instead those who were still stuck in sin.

So stop using that verse to confuse yourself into remaining a slave to sin. Listen instead to Jesus Christ who commands you to be holy even as your Father in Heaven is Holy and rise above sin.

Even the adulterous woman was told, by Jesus Christ , to go and SIN NO MORE. So what excuse do you have to continue in sin?

Dont misquote me please, where did i say its okay to continue in sin using whatever excuse?

12rev:

Dont misquote me please, where did i say its okay to continue in sin using whatever excuse?

Well, rather that repeating that "... all have sinned..." Verse which is meaningless since sin is a fact of our existence in this world, why not teach that which Jesus Christ said instead which is that those who want to rid themselves of the bondage of slavery by knowing His truth?

Kobojunkie:
Well, rather that repeating that "... all have sinned..." Verse which is meaningless since sin is a fact of our existence in this world, why not teach that which Jesus Christ said instead which is that those who want to rid themselves of the bondage of slavery by knowing His truth?

You are off-point. What did Jesus Teach concerning the aduterous woman brought to him? Meaningless? Your understanding is what matters.

12rev:

You are off-point. What did Jesus Teach concerning the aduterous woman brought to him? Meaningless? Your understanding is what matters.

Jesus Christ did not teach you "....all have sinned.." by that story at all. The woman caught in the act was a sinner whom He told to go and sin no more.

Recall that Jesus Christ, the very same, declared, when asked of the Pharisees, that He did not come to call the Righteous(non sinners) but the sinners to Himself.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ did not teach you "....all have sinned.." by that story at all. The woman caught in the act was a sinner whom He told to go and sin no more.

Recall that Jesus Christ, the very same, declared, when asked of the Pharisees, that He did not come to call the Righteous(non sinners) but the sinners to Himself.

That single passage says it all... We all have sinned and we are not fit to judge one another neither can we save ourselves. Sic God is merciful and willing to save those who repent and follow righteousness....what exactly is your problem with that?

12rev:

That single passage says it all... We all have sinned and we are not fit to judge one another neither can we save ourselves. Sic God is merciful and willing to save those who repent and follow righteousness....what exactly is your problem with that?

Recall that this took place with those ot the Old Covenant, so first let's take a look at what Jesus Christ did from Old Covenant perspective.

1. Again, Jesus Christ did only say "all have sinned and so do not do that which God commands". He simply said, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone" meaning anyone who had no sin, of the same kind, should in fact cast the first stone... Deuteronomy 19 vs 21 backs that person's rightness to do so.

2. The same Jesus Christ also said, "Be ye holy(without sin) even as your Father in Heaven is Holy"... implying that there are those among us who are without.

3. The same Jesus Christ also declared woe on the Pharisees for refusing to obey All of God's commandments to them in Matthew 23 vs 23

All these come together to tell you that Jesus Christ was not telling you that "All have sinned and so do not carry out all of God's commandments". Instead, Jesus Christ was speaking of making sure one's hands are not dirty of the same sins one seeks to condemn another for - Deuteronomy 19 vs 15 -21

For those of us in the New Covenant, Jesus Christ makes it abundantly clear, by His statement, "He who is without sin should cast the first stone" that those among us still struggling with sin should not condemn others for the same sins we are even guilty of.

However, those who are without sin, the righteous - those who have the Spirit of God, living inside of them - are able to cast the first stone in condemnation of those who sin against God. These are able to forgive sins or not forgive sins even - John 20 vs 21-23

Cc: Myer

Kobojunkie:
Recall that this took place with those ot the Old Covenant, so first let's take a look at what Jesus Christ did from Old Covenant perspective.

1. Again, Jesus Christ did only say "all have sinned and so do not do that which God commands". He simply said, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone" meaning anyone who had no sin, of the same kind, should in fact cast the first stone... Deuteronomy 19 vs 21 backs that person's rightness to do so.

2. The same Jesus Christ also said, "Be ye holy(without sin) even as your Father in Heaven is Holy"... implying that there are those among us who are without.

3. The same Jesus Christ also declared woe on the Pharisees for refusing to obey All of God's commandments to them in Matthew 23 vs 23

All these come together to tell you that Jesus Christ was not telling you that "All have sinned and so do not carry out all of God's commandments". Instead, Jesus Christ was speaking of making sure one's hands are not dirty of the same sins one seeks to condemn another for - Deuteronomy 19 vs 15 -21

For those of us in the New Covenant, Jesus Christ makes it abundantly clear, by His statement, "He who is without sin should cast the first stone" that those among us still struggling with sin should not condemn others for the same sins we are even guilty of.

However, those who are without sin, the righteous - those who have the Spirit of God, living inside of them - are able to cast the first stone in condemnation of those who sin against God. These are able to forgive sins or not forgive sins even - John 20 vs 21-23

Cc: Myer

I dont agree to all that, was Jesus Christ with sin? Why didnt he cast a stone then?...afterall the command says she should be put to death by stoning.

12rev:

I dont agree to all that, was Jesus Christ with sin? Why didnt he cast a stone then?...afterall the command says she should be put to death by stoning.

1. According to the Old Covenant, the first to cast the stone are the 2 or 3 witnesses to the crime - who have investigated and proven the crime true - must punish the person who did the evil - this according to Deuteronomy 17 vs 2 - 7. We are not told that Jesus Christ was a witness to the sin in this case and so we cannot then conclude that He outright refused to enforce the Law.

2. Also, the Old Covenant also commands that we love our neighbor even as we love our own selves - Leviticus 19 vs 17-18 - showing mercy wherever possible. God declares of His Old Covenant, in Hosea 6 vs 6 , that He desires mercy over sacrifice and burnt offerings.

So, it would not have made sense for Jesus Christ condemn her even by the Old Covenant standards from what we know.

3. Of His New Covenant, Jesus Christ declared to us that He has not come to condemn but to save and since her sin was not of the unforgivable kind, there was really no need for Him to condemn her but instead to forgive her and ask her to sin no more.

Kobojunkie:
1. According to the Old Covenant, the first to cast the stone are the 2 or 3 witnesses to the crime - who have investigated and proven the crime true - must punish the person who did the evil - this according to Deuteronomy 17 vs 2 - 7. We are not told that Jesus Christ was a witness to the sin in this case and so we cannot then conclude that He outright refused to enforce the Law.

2. Also, the Old Covenant also commands that we love our neighbor even as we love our own selves - Leviticus 19 vs 17-18 - showing mercy wherever possible. God declares of His Old Covenant, in Hosea 6 vs 6 , that He desires mercy over sacrifice and burnt offerings.

So, it would not have made sense for Jesus Christ condemn her even by the Old Covenant standards from what we know.

3. Of His New Covenant, Jesus Christ declared to us that He has not come to condemn but to save and since her sin was not of the unforgivable kind, there was really no need for Him to condemn her but instead to forgive her and ask her to sin no more.

Please go to the passage about "the Lord of The Sabbath" and compare Jesus response....Jesus came to teach the law. He made us understand deeper. Yes the law says the adulterer should be put to death, but same law says thou shall not kill. Doesnt matter who is 1st witness or last or if her sin is forgivable or not. We cant be condemning each other or cutting one anothers ear because we all have sinned at some point in our lives and by that same law we all should be dead.

In essence the law were given as a guide not a hard n fast rule, good thing you've pointed out "love your neighbour..." Which is the real law we should all follow.

12rev:

Please go to the passage about "the Lord of The Sabbath" and compare Jesus response....Jesus came to teach the law. He made us understand deeper. Yes the law says the adulterer should be put to death, but same law says thou shall not kill. Doesnt matter who is 1st witness or last or if her sin is forgivable or not. We cant be condemning each other or cutting one anothers ear because we all have sinned at some point in our lives and by that same law we all should be dead.

In essence the law were given as a guide not a hard n fast rule, good thing you've pointed out "love your neighbour..." Which is the real law we should all follow.

So you are saying here that even though God condemned His people for refusing to obey His Laws, this all through the Old Testament, punishing them severely for it too, God did not really intend for them to obey His Law but instead for them to use it as a "guide"?

I am not certain if it is the case that you are even aware of the reason for the Law to begin with. The Old Covenant Law of Moses happens to be the very constitution in the Land of Canaan, given to the people by God Almighty. To suggest that this Law, which governs the whole Nation is just a "guide" leaves me to again wonder if you have a good grasp of what it is your speak of.

"Love your neigbor" is the real Law, you say, but in the case that some citizens of the land refuse to show love to their neighbor,.i.e. a woman or man who covets his neighbor's husband or wife, or a man who murders his friend, do you not expect the rules governing punishment of those who break the Law to then be implemented?

If, your answer to above is No, please explain why.

If Yes, then why do you have a problem with the Law(Old Covenant) stipulating that even the woman caught in the act or adultery be appropriately punished?

FYI: The New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, is not the "guide" but instead the Constitution as far as the Kingdom of God is concerned - Different Kingdom, different Law!

Kobojunkie:
So you are saying here that even though God condemned His people for refusing to obey His Laws, this all through the Old Testament, punishing them severely for it too, God did not really intend for them to obey His Law but instead for them to use it as a "guide"?

I am not certain if it is the case that you are even aware of the reason for the Law to begin with. The Old Covenant Law of Moses happens to be the very constitution in the Land of Canaan, given to the people by God Almighty. To suggest that this Law, which governs the whole Nation is just a "guide" leaves me to again wonder if you have a good grasp of what it is your speak of.

"Love your neigbor" is the real Law, you say, but in the case that some citizens of the land refuse to show love to their neighbor,.i.e. a woman or man who covets his neighbor's husband or wife, or a man who murders his friend, do you not expect the rules governing punishment of those who break the Law to then be implemented?

If, your answer to above is No, please explain why.

If Yes, then why do you have a problem with the Law(Old Covenant) stipulating that even the woman caught in the act or adultery be appropriately punished?

FYI: The New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, is not the "guide" but instead the Constitution as far as the Kingdom of God is concerned - Different Kingdom, different Law!

Whats the meaning of "guide"?

Love your neighbour as you love yourself, Love The Lord your God with all you strength and your heart. From these two other laws spring. Have you finished practicing those two? That you are looking for who to stone to death?

Talking of the intension of God? When God gave those command did He also have the intension of sending Jesus Christ to come later on as the saviour?

Punishment by death, are you sure you understand what death could mean? When God said to Adam "the day you eat of the fruit you will surely die, did God lie?

12rev:

Whats the meaning of "guide"?
Love your neighbour as you love yourself, Love The Lord your God with all you strength and your heart. From these two other laws spring. Have you finished practicing those two? That you are looking for who to stone to death?

Talking of the intension of God? When God gave those command did He also have the intension of sending Jesus Christ to come later on as the saviour?

Punishment by death, are you sure you understand what death could mean? When God said to Adam "the day you eat of the fruit you will surely die, did God lie?

1. You tell me. God's Law I know to be absolute in that we are expected to keep it absolutely. So how do you choose to define the word "guide" ?

2. . How do you love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, body and soul?

3. How do you love your neighbor as you love your own self?

4. According to scripture, God has intended to send Jesus Christ. even before the creation.

5. Death from the time of Adam, since man was not created an eternal being, has meant that the one who does perished , ceased to exist one life leaves the body. What other meaning do you assume?

Kobojunkie:
1. You tell me. God's Law I know to be absolute in that we are expected to keep it absolutely. So how do you choose to define the word "guide" ?

2. . How do you love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, body and soul?

3. How do you love your neighbor as you love your own self?

4. According to scripture, God has intended to send Jesus Christ. even before the creation.

5. Death from the time of Adam, since man was not created an eternal being, has meant that the one who does perished , ceased to exist one life leaves the body. What other meaning do you assume?

Which of the laws did Adam break that he was condemened to death? Death means when the presence of God has left you.

The laws of Moses are not absolute, if they were then Jesus Christ didnt need to come. Check Jesus and the young rich man.

12rev:

Which of the laws did Adam break that he was condemened to death? Death means when the presence of God has left you.

The laws of Moses are not absolute, if they were then Jesus Christ didnt need to come. Check Jesus and the young rich man.

1. Read Genesis 2 for the detail of the Law that Adam defied.

2. According to Genesis 3, the condemnation of sin which is Death, punishment imposed by God Himself condemns the one to be returned to dust(mind, body and soul) from which we were first constituted.

3. Where do you get your belief that the Old Covenant Law of Moses is not absolute? is it not an eternal Covenant as even Jesus Christ Himself declared in Matthew 5 vs 17 -19 ? Is it not the Word of God?

Kobojunkie:
1. Read Genesis 2 for the detail of the Law that Adam defied.

2. According to Genesis 3, the condemnation of sin which is Death, punishment imposed by God Himself condemns the one to be returned to dust(mind, body and soul) from which we were first constituted.

3. Where do you get your belief that the Old Covenant Law of Moses is not absolute? is it not an eternal Covenant as even Jesus Christ Himself declared in Matthew 5 vs 17 -19 ? Is it not the Word of God?

You're mixing things up sire, physical death was never a punishment from God, man was made mortal from the beginning. Genesis 3 never referred to physical death as a punishment for sin, rather sending man away from the presence of God was the punishment: death.
Mans sin was disobedience: doesnt matter if its stealing, murder, fornication or all the 10 commands. The punishment is same: casting out from the presence of God.

12rev:

You're mixing things up sire, physical death was never a punishment from God, man was made mortal from the beginning. Genesis 3 never referred to physical death as a punishment for sin, rather sending man away from the presence of God was the punishment: death.
Mans sin was disobedience: doesnt matter if its stealing, murder, fornication or all the 10 commands. The punishment is same: casting out from the presence of God.

1. if acknowledge that man was made mortal from the beginning, what other kind of Death can a mortal being experience if not the physical kind?

In Genesis 2, God prescribed Death as punishment for sin. And in Genesis 3, after man's betrayal, God pronounced sentence and that sentence turned out to be just that, physical Death.

2. Sending man away came after the pronouncement of physical death and was prescribed for the purpose of keeping man away from the Tree of eternal Life.

3. If Death is instead a "casting out" of man from the presence of God as you claim, How then where the sons of Adam able to communicate with the very same God?

Kobojunkie:
1. if acknowledge that man was made mortal from the beginning, what other kind of Death can a mortal being experience if not the physical kind?

In Genesis 2, God prescribed Death as punishment for sin. And in Genesis 3, after man's betrayal, God pronounced sentence and that sentence turned out to be just that, physical Death.

2. Sending man away came after the pronouncement of physical death and was prescribed for the purpose of keeping man away from the Tree of eternal Life.

3. If Death is instead a "casting out" of man from the presence of God as you claim, How then where the sons of Adam able to communicate with the very same God?

So the saying "the wages of sin is death" refers to physical death right?

12rev:

So the saying "the wages of sin is death" refers to physical death right?

The wages of sin aka the condemnation of sin which is Death is death without the possibility of an afterlife....I.e. the punished ceases to exist in the grave.

Kobojunkie:
The wages of sin aka the condemnation of sin which is Death is death without the possibility of an afterlife....I.e. the punished ceases to exist in the grave.

Why attaching conditions? You just claimed physical death is the punishment for sin, why then bring in the condition of afterlife or not? Thats an entirely different topic dude.

Kobojunkie:
1. if acknowledge that man was made mortal from the beginning, what other kind of Death can a mortal being experience if not the physical kind?

In Genesis 2, God prescribed Death as punishment for sin. And in Genesis 3, after man's betrayal, God pronounced sentence and that sentence turned out to be just that, physical Death.

So man was made mortal i.e he was designed to die at some point, regardless of sin? Why do you now contradict yourself saying physical death is the price of sin Again the wages of sin is death: the absence of God in ones life, not physical death.
When God told Adam he would die for disobeying He wasnt reffering to physical dying otherwise you could claim the serpent was right.
Same way we could apply that principle to the old testament. And again it explains why Jesus Christ wouldnt lift a stone on the adulteress.

12rev:

Why attaching conditions? You just claimed physical death is the punishment for sin, why then bring in the condition of afterlife or not? Thats an entirely different topic dude.

So man was made mortal i.e he was designed to die at some point, regardless of sin? Why do you now contradict yourself saying physical death is the price of sin Again the wages of sin is death: the absence of God in ones life, not physical death.
When God told Adam he would die for disobeying He wasnt reffering to physical dying otherwise you could claim the serpent was right.
Same way we could apply that principle to the old testament. And again it explains why Jesus Christ wouldnt lift a stone on the adulteress.

I didn't attach any conditions.
1. Man was created mortal (not an immortal being) and a physical being( from clay of this earth). What does that then mean? It meant man's existence was tied to this physical, for lack of a better term, earth. It also meant that man did not have eternal life just as those born of Spirit and so no afterlife as once He shed his physical there was nothing left.

2. I wouldn't declare at all that man was designed to die at some point. Instead God may have desired for man to be translated from a purely physical/mortal existence to that of spirit(immortal) at a later point in his time on earth. God had the Tree of knowledge of good and evil(Truth or Lies), as well as the tree of eternal Life(after Life) right there in the garden, so it was not out of the question that and a promotion was to take place if man had not instead chosen to fall when tempted.

3. There is no contradiction with stating that physical death is the price of Sin. It is written right there in Genesis 2 vs 15 -17 and confirmed in Genesis 3 vs 19 that physical death is the price of sin. I ought to be the one asking you why you keep ignoring what is clearly written there for you to read.

4. What do you mean by "....otherwise I would claim the serpent was right"?

5. Also what do you mean by the statement "Same way we could apply that principle to the old testament. And again it explains why Jesus Christ wouldnt lift a stone on the adulteress"?

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An aside! Recall that Jesus Christ, the second Adam, came declaring, "I am The WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.."? Well, guess what God put in the garden of Eden with the First Adam? The Tree of LIFE, along with the Tree of Knowledge of good( TRUTH ), and evil(LIES). Yes, the first Adam had access to the TRUTH and LIFE we now are only able to obtain through Jesus Christ. The problem he, Adam, had was with the WAY to obtaining it.

Can you guess what the WAY was right there in the garden for Adam and Eve?