What is divine Election?

God “elects” (chooses) those whom He will save; and therefore, He chooses to whom He will give saving faith.

This means only one person (God) is involved in the salvation of man.

Remember in genesis God gave man the ability to decide his fate

And he messed everything up he chose the wrong path that actually leads to death

God does what He wants, and that what He does is true and right because He does it, is foundational to our understanding of everything in Scripture, including the doctrine of election.

election refers to the fact that God chooses (or elects) to do everything that He does in whatever way He sees fit. When He acts, He does so only because He willfully and independently chooses to act. According to His own nature, predetermined plan, and good pleasure, He decides to do whatever He desires, without pressure or constraint from any outside influence.

The Bible makes this point repeatedly. In the act of Creation, God made precisely what He wanted to create in the way He wanted to create it (cf. Gen. 1:31). And ever since Creation, He has sovereignly prescribed or permitted everything in human history, in order that He might accomplish the redemptive plan that He previously had designed (cf. Isa. 25:1; 46:10; 55:11; Rom. 9:17; Eph. 3:8–11).

Romans 8:30

Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Bishopkingsley:


God “elects” (chooses) those whom He will save; and therefore, He chooses to whom He will give saving faith.
This means only one person (God) is involved in the salvation of man.

Remember in genesis God gave man the ability to decide his fate

And he messed everything up he chose the wrong path that actually leads to death

God does what He wants, and that what He does is true and right because He does it, is foundational to our understanding of everything in Scripture, including the doctrine of election.

election refers to the fact that God chooses (or elects) to do everything that He does in whatever way He sees fit. When He acts, He does so only because He willfully and independently chooses to act. According to His own nature, predetermined plan, and good pleasure, He decides to do whatever He desires, without pressure or constraint from any outside influence.

The Bible makes this point repeatedly. In the act of Creation, God made precisely what He wanted to create in the way He wanted to create it (cf. Gen. 1:31). And ever since Creation, He has sovereignly prescribed or permitted everything in human history, in order that He might accomplish the redemptive plan that He previously had designed (cf. Isa. 25:1; 46:10; 55:11; Rom. 9:17; Eph. 3:8–11).

Romans 8:30

Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

1. What does Salvation mean in this context?

And where do you have the Almighty stating that He is involved in the Salvation of man, I mean in the way you believe Him to be?

Kobojunkie:
1. What does Salvation mean in this context?

And where do you have the Almighty stating that He is involved in the Salvation of man, I mean in the way you believe Him to be?

Read romans 8:30

Kobojunkie:
1. What does Salvation mean in this context?

And where do you have the Almighty stating that He is involved in the Salvation of man, I mean in the way you believe Him to be?

In fact read all the chapters I mentioned in the top

Bishopkingsley:

Read romans 8:30

Obviously, If I read that verse, I am likely to comprehend these things quite differently from you. That is why I ask you make your understanding clear so I can properly engage your statement. For instance, Roman's 8 vs 30 does not speak of Salvation to me, so how do you expect me to say what it doesn't.

Kobojunkie:
Obviously, If I read that verse, I am likely to comprehend these things quite differently from you. That is why I ask you make your understanding clear so I can properly engage your statement. For instance, Roman's 8 vs 30 does not speak of Salvation to me, so how do you expect me to say what it doesn't.

salvation
Definition

preservation or deliverance from harm
deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
"the Christian gospel of salvation for all mankind"

Now God is involved in our salvation in that he came down and died for us to save us from our sin full nature

Bishopkingsley:

salvation
Definition

preservation or deliverance from harm
deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ.
"the Christian gospel of salvation for all mankind"

Now God is involved in our salvation in that he came down and died for us to save us from our sin full nature

So, you are referring to a deliverance that somehow applies to those who already believe then and not to those still unbelievers then since according to Jesus Christ in John 3 vs 1 - 21, those who believe are saved from perishing(Death), not sin.

Kobojunkie:
So, you are referring to a deliverance that somehow applies to those who already believe then and not to those still unbelievers then since according to Jesus Christ in John 3 vs 1 - 21, those who believe are saved from perishing(Death), not sin.

Death and sin are like brothers and sisters

When Jesus saves you from death it means he has saved you from sin initially

Bishopkingsley:

Death and sin are like brothers and sisters

When Jesus saves you from death it means he has saved you from sin initially

Where is this claim of yours explicitly stated?

Death was given by God as punishment for sin. But Jesus Christ said instead that He came to save us from Death, not sin,in John 3 vs 1 - 21. This as the same Jesus Christ says that rather than a saving from sin, what is instead necessary is a turning away from sin, this by the one who is bound by sin - John 8 vs 31 - 39.

Did Jesus Christ get the Truth of God wrong?

Kobojunkie:
Where is this claim of yours explicitly stated?

Death was given by God as punishment for sin. But Jesus Christ said instead that He came to save us from Death, not sin,in John 3 vs 1 - 21. This as the same Jesus Christ says that rather than a saving from sin, what is instead necessary is a turning away from sin, this by the one who is bound by sin - John 8 vs 31 - 39.

Did Jesus Christ get the Truth of God wrong?

Ephesians 2

2 At one time you were dead because of your sins. 2 You followed the sinful ways of the world and obeyed the leader of the power of darkness. He is the devil who is now working in the people who do not obey God. 3 At one time all of us lived to please our old selves. We gave in to what our bodies and minds wanted. We were sinful from birth like all other people and would suffer from the anger of God.

4 But God had so much loving-kindness. He loved us with such a great love. 5 Even when we were dead because of our sins, He made us alive by what Christ did for us


Now sin gives birth to death as seen from the above scripture

God made us alive in Christ as seen by above too

The scripture teaches us in Matthew 1:21 that “he (Jesus) will save his people from their sins”. This was the prophecy spoken to Joseph by an angel, telling him that this baby that Mary was having would bring salvation to mankind. ... He came to save us from sin by being that sacrifice for our sins.

Bishopkingsley:

Now sin gives birth to death as seen from the above scripture

God made us alive in Christ as seen by above too

The scripture teaches us in Matthew 1:21 that “he (Jesus) will save his people from their sins”. This was the prophecy spoken to Joseph by an angel, telling him that this baby that Mary was having would bring salvation to mankind. ... He came to save us from sin by being that sacrifice for our sins.

1. How does sin give birth to death when Death is instead a punishment of judgement instituted by God Himself and this in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19?

I hope in this you do not then suggest that a righteous man and woman then, who are Holy in the sight of God, cannot give birth to a one who is sinful?

2. What is written in Matthew 1 vs 21, states that Jesus Christ will save His people, not mankind, from their sins and indeed that is true since Jesus Christ, by fulfilling the Old Covenant Law of Moses on behalf of the Lost sheep of Israel(sinners), did save all those of them who would believe in Him from their sins...never mind.

Learn to TRUST God only!

Kobojunkie:
1. How does sin give birth to death when Death is instead a punishment of judgement instituted by God Himself and this in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19?

I hope in this you do not then suggest that a righteous man and woman then, who are Holy in the sight of God, cannot give birth to a one who is sinful?

2. What is written in Matthew 1 vs 21, states that Jesus Christ will save His people, not mankind, from their sins and indeed that is true since Jesus Christ, by fulfilling the Old Covenant Law of Moses on behalf of the Lost sheep of Israel(sinners), did save all those of them who would believe in Him from their sins...never mind.

Learn to TRUST God only!

Giving birth means there was sin before death

Giving birth means because man sin that was why death came

Giving birth words I used is just an expression to explain the one from the other

Kobojunkie:
1. How does sin give birth to death when Death is instead a punishment of judgement instituted by God Himself and this in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19?

I hope in this you do not then suggest that a righteous man and woman then, who are Holy in the sight of God, cannot give birth to a one who is sinful?

2. What is written in Matthew 1 vs 21, states that Jesus Christ will save His people, not mankind, from their sins and indeed that is true since Jesus Christ, by fulfilling the Old Covenant Law of Moses on behalf of the Lost sheep of Israel(sinners), did save all those of them who would believe in Him from their sins...never mind.

Learn to TRUST God only!

Yes to save his people

But you have to combine scripture to understand it not only his people but for all mankind

Because it says for God so loved the world (mankind) that he gave his only son.......

Bishopkingsley:

Giving birth means there was sin before death

Giving birth means because man sin that was why death came

Giving birth words I used is just an expression to explain the one from the other

Since sin is disobedience of God's commandment, are you suggesting then that those who have yet to disobey are spared this Death until they actually disobey?

If this sentence of Death is from Genesis 3 vs 17-19, doesn't it then follow that we instead inherited Death from Adam and not sin since, again sin is disobedience of God's direct command, a personal choice to be made by an individual in this case?

We observe this same pattern of inheritance of punishment for sin, and not sin itself in the Old Covenant laws where generational curses or punishments were once instituted by God.

Bishopkingsley:

Yes to save his people

But you have to combine scripture to understand it not only his people but for all mankind

Because it says for God so loved the world (mankind) that he gave his only son.......

You can't and should never combine scripture in that way. For example, language ( and terms) used by the writer in Matthew differs from that used by the other writers so you have to understand each individually and then combine your comprehension of each instead.

Kobojunkie:
Since sin is disobedience of God's commandment, are you suggesting then that those who have yet to disobey are spared this Death until they actually disobey?

If this sentence of Death is from Genesis 3 vs 17-19, doesn't it then follow that we instead inherited Death from Adam and not sin since, again sin is disobedience of God's direct command, a personal choice to be made by an individual in this case?

We observe this same pattern of inheritance of punishment for sin, and not sin itself in the Old Covenant laws where generational curses or punishments were once instituted by God.

The first thing we inherited from Adam was the sinful nature once u inherit that next thing to follow is death

You can't inherit death if there was no sinful nature

Kobojunkie:
You can't and should never combine scripture in that way. For example, language ( and terms) used by the writer in Matthew differs from that used by the other writers so you have to understand each individually and then combine your comprehension of each instead.

You must combine scripture in that way now in fact that is the main way to combine scripture if you want to understand the plans of God scripture all scripture is pointing at one thing salvation in Jesus

The purpose of the old testerment is to show us God plans for salvation

When you hear the lamb slain before the foundation of the world in genesis it talking about Jesus

When you see Moses saving the Israelis it points to one man Jesus about to save the world

When you see David become a king

It talking about Jesus becoming the final king

Etc it all about Jesus

Nothing else matters in Bible

Because everything is pointing to Jesus

Bishopkingsley:


You must combine scripture in that way now in fact that is the main way to combine scripture if you want to understand the plans of God scripture all scripture is pointing at one thing salvation in Jesus

The purpose of the old testerment is to show us God plans for salvation

When you hear the lamb slain before the foundation of the world in genesis it talking about Jesus

When you see Moses saving the Israelis it points to one man Jesus about to save the world

When you see David become a king

It talking about Jesus becoming the final king

Etc it all about Jesus

Nothing else matters in Bible

Because everything is pointing to Jesus

Right on point

Bishopkingsley:

The first thing we inherited from Adam was the sinful nature once u inherit that next thing to follow is death

You can't inherit death if there was no sinful nature

1. What is s "sinful nature" when all that sin is is a choice made in disobedience of God's very own commandment?

2. Why was Abel, Adam's very own son, declared righteous by God, if he inherited this "sin nature" you speak of?

3. Everyone since Adam, born of unborn inherited Death, however, not everyone sinned I.e. made the conscious choice to disobey God's commandment.

In God's old Covenant generational curses, which he later abolished, God would punish the children of anyone who sins, up to the 3rd and 4th generation, regardless of whether they,the children, sinned or not. What He passed on to the children was not a "sin nature" but the punishment for the sin committed by their ancestor. This seems to imitate what God did with Adam and mankind.

Bishopkingsley:

You must combine scripture in that way now in fact that is the main way to combine scripture if you want to understand the plans of God scripture all scripture is pointing at one thing salvation in Jesus

The purpose of the old testerment is to show us God plans for salvation
When you hear the lamb slain before the foundation of the world in genesis it talking about Jesus
When you see Moses saving the Israelis it points to one man Jesus about to save the world
When you see David become a king
It talking about Jesus becoming the final king
Etc it all about Jesus
Nothing else matters in Bible
Because everything is pointing to Jesus

I understand what the doctrines taught to you in your churches say but Jesus Christ warned you against listening to them and for good reason because they are not true.

1. I was not saying here that you not combine knowledge you glean from reading scripture but instead your assumption that you can, where in Matthew you are explicitly told that Jesus Christ was called go saved His people from sin, assume.that it meant instead that He came to save mankind from their sins. That is wrong thinking as it has to be understood from the perspective of the writer of Matthew first and the resolved with the understanding from what is said by other writers.

The same Jesus Christ is written to have indeed declared that He was sent to the sinners in Israel.

2. As for David becoming king being representative of Jesus Christ, why is Saul or Jeroboam or even Solomon's kingship not thrown in that same bucket? Be careful as all those doctrines and traditions of God are against God's Truth.

God's election or predestination is according to his foreknowledge meaning God knew everything before it started and then he did his election, whatever the criteria of this election it must be in righteousness, truth, justice, mercy and love because God is a righteous, holy, true, faithful, just, kind and loving God.

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Do human have a choice, yes they must choose either God's way or their way.
God does not make this choice for any body, election doe not mean no choice on the part of humans but it just reveals God's choice but however, the elect must make their election sure by agreeing with God.

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Kobojunkie:
1. What is s "sinful nature" when all that sin is is a choice made in disobedience of God's very own commandment?

2. Why was Abel, Adam's very own son, declared righteous by God, if he inherited this "sin nature" you speak of?

3. Everyone since Adam, born of unborn inherited Death, however, not everyone sinned I.e. made the conscious choice to disobey God's commandment.

In God's old Covenant generational curses, which he later abolished, God would punish the children of anyone who sins, up to the 3rd and 4th generation, regardless of whether they,the children, sinned or not. What He passed on to the children was not a "sin nature" but the punishment for the sin committed by their ancestor. This seems to imitate what God did with Adam and mankind.

Adam was the federal head of the human race, and he chose to rebel ... All of humankind was in 'Adam's loins' when he rebelled,

” (Ephesians 2:1) and “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). We inherit Adam’s sinful nature and are sinful from the moment of conception. This is the truth of the depravity of our nature.

Romans 5. Though this passage is dealing with the imputation of Adam’s sin as the federal head of the human race, it also shows us man is sinful because of his relation to Adam.

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Psalm 51:5, NIV: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5, ESV: "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalm 51:5, KJV: "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

God is saying we all are in Adam loin inside his sperm when he sinned so he passed sin to all of us not only death

Kobojunkie:
1. What is s "sinful nature" when all that sin is is a choice made in disobedience of God's very own commandment?

2. Why was Abel, Adam's very own son, declared righteous by God, if he inherited this "sin nature" you speak of?

3. Everyone since Adam, born of unborn inherited Death, however, not everyone sinned I.e. made the conscious choice to disobey God's commandment.

In God's old Covenant generational curses, which he later abolished, God would punish the children of anyone who sins, up to the 3rd and 4th generation, regardless of whether they,the children, sinned or not. What He passed on to the children was not a "sin nature" but the punishment for the sin committed by their ancestor. This seems to imitate what God did with Adam and mankind.

Adam mean man eve means woman what God is saying is if you were Adam or eve u would still do what they did it doesn't matter if it not u that did it directly

God is saying we all did it because we are all the same inside Adam

Bishopkingsley:

Adam mean man eve means woman what God is saying is if you were Adam or eve u would still do what they did it doesn't matter if it not u that did it directly

God is saying we all did it because we are all the same inside Adam

I am sorry what?
Where did God say any of the such?

There are several examples of those who didn't so as Adam did - Abel, Noah, Abraham, Job etc. - ,and God gave them eternal life instead of Death for it. Are you saying God is a trickster of some sort?

Bishopkingsley:

Adam was the federal head of the human race, and he chose to rebel ... All of humankind was in 'Adam's loins' when he rebelled,

” (Ephesians 2:1) and “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). We inherit Adam’s sinful nature and are sinful from the moment of conception. This is the truth of the depravity of our nature.

Romans 5. Though this passage is dealing with the imputation of Adam’s sin as the federal head of the human race, it also shows us man is sinful because of his relation to Adam.

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Psalm 51:5, NIV: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5, ESV: "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalm 51:5, KJV: "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

God is saying we all are in Adam loin inside his sperm when he sinned so he passed sin to all of us not only death

It seems in your narratives, God always seems to be saying what He never in fact said.

1. Adam was a man, like any man, only he was the first man and his sins were his choice.

2. If Adam , according to you represents every man, why then are you all too willing also to conclude that David's lament of his birth is the lament of every man?

3. Rexall the question I had asked. What is "sin nature" when all that sin is is a choice made in disobedience of God's very own commandment?

Kobojunkie:
I am sorry what?
Where did God say any of the such?

There are several examples of those who didn't so as Adam did - Abel, Noah, Abraham, Job etc. - ,and God gave them eternal life instead of Death for it. Are you saying God is a trickster of some sort?

He said it here

(Ephesians 2:1) and “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”

Kobojunkie:
It seems in your narratives, God always seems to be saying what He never in fact said.

1. Adam was a man, like any man, only he was the first man and his sins were his choice.

2. If Adam , according to you represents every man, why then are you all too willing also to conclude that David's lament of his birth is the lament of every man?

3. Also, you did not respond to the question I asked ...

Which question

Kobojunkie:
I am sorry what?
Where did God say any of the such?

There are several examples of those who didn't so as Adam did - Abel, Noah, Abraham, Job etc. - ,and God gave them eternal life instead of Death for it. Are you saying God is a trickster of some sort?

This people u mentioned are the ones God gave his rightoesness to after or before they sacrificed for him this are the chosen ones

Bishopkingsley:

He said it here

(Ephesians 2:1) and “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”

Well, obviously not all have sinned since we have examples of many righteous men in the Bible to say that ain't so. And all of them were declared righteous because they chose only to sin .I.e. they obeyed God's commandments, the opposite of sin.

So, is God wrong by declaring those men righteous by His standard?

2. You say God gave His righteousness, how did God give His righteousness to Job?

Kobojunkie:
It seems in your narratives, God always seems to be saying what He never in fact said.

1. Adam was a man, like any man, only he was the first man and his sins were his choice.

2. If Adam , according to you represents every man, why then are you all too willing also to conclude that David's lament of his birth is the lament of every man?

3. Rexall the question I had asked. What is "sin nature" when all that sin is is a choice made in disobedience of God's very own commandment?

Not according to me

Adam - means human or mankind or man

The word adam is also used in the Bible as a pronoun, individually as "a human"

Kobojunkie:
It seems in your narratives, God always seems to be saying what He never in fact said.

1. Adam was a man, like any man, only he was the first man and his sins were his choice.

2. If Adam , according to you represents every man, why then are you all too willing also to conclude that David's lament of his birth is the lament of every man?

3. Rexall the question I had asked. What is "sin nature" when all that sin is is a choice made in disobedience of God's very own commandment?

Sin nature is same as sinful nature should I explain

The sin nature is that aspect in man that makes him rebellious against God.

Bishopkingsley:

Not according to me

Adam - means human or mankind or man

The word adam is also used in the Bible as a pronoun, individually as "a human"

Where in the Bible is the word Adam used to connote the word "human" or mankind?