Still researching... quite interesting

If I[i]gbo-Ukwu art[/i] was carbon dated to the 9th century AD, then the Igbos of Nigeria existed in Igboland before the 1644 map was made.
I believe the Ijaw elder Opigo must have admired the Cameroonian name so much he decided it was fit to call the Igbos "Biafrans"

Very interesting

Source: http://www.mozambiquehistory.net/arts/artes_plasticas/19830414_smiths_of_igbo_ukwo.pdf

Shokoloko:


https://www.ajol.info/index.php/ad/article/view/57356/45736

Not sure, but that answer might lie with the Ijaws of Nigeria

Thanks for the enlightenment

MajorLeaguePlay:
The bottomline is: While the Yorubas and their kin [Edo/Itshekiri etc] were trading, studying, marrying, carrying out expeditions across deserts and warring with the outside world (Northern Nigeria/Foreign countries), the Ibos were secluded in the jungles of the rain forests away from civilization until about 250yrs ago; this is why it’s taking them longer than usual to assimilate with the outside world and behave in a proper manner acceptable to those they encounter. There is nothing to be ashamed about this fact. It’s their history. What gets others angry is when they try to act like others are the “bush men”.

LMAO. The Igboukwu arts and kingdom already shows that Igbos were way more advanced than other tribes in pre colonial Nigeria to the effect that white people tried to give Igbos a non African origin.
Choke on your foolishness.

fozapi:


It simply means fulanis own no land in the north

Is a state not yours simply because you're in a minoirity? Does Nigeria belong to only Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba?

Shokoloko:


The origin of the name is settled, however that does not indicate the origin of the Igbos of Nigeria. Just as we have Lagos in Portugal and Lagos in Nigeria. While Lagos in Nigeria has a lot of Portuguese influence we both know that the people of Lagos state did not originate, have no relation with the people of Lagos in Portugal, even though that was the origin of the name

So how do you marry the origin of the name Biafra to the origin of the Igbos? We cannot assume that two cities (eg Memphis in Tennessee, and Memphis in Egypt) means that there was a massive migration

We'll see tomorrow.

IjapaTiroko:
Regardless, any country can so name itself whatever name it pleases.

Modern day Ghana isn't even the real Ghana.

Look at the map again. The location of Libya, is it the location of modern-day Libya? I agree with you.

Biodun556:
Igbos should go back to thier ancestral home of Guinea and Cameroon if they want biafra.



From lost Israelis to lost biafrans. They will need another DNA test.

Shameless coward

Shokoloko:
Still researching... quite interesting

If I[i]gbo-Ukwu art[/i] was carbon dated to the 9th century AD, then the Igbos of Nigeria existed in Igboland before the 1644 map was made.
I believe the Ijaw elder Opigo must have admired the Cameroonian name so much he decided it was fit to call the Igbos "Biafrans"

One cannot argue since those artifacts were carbon dated. However, much is desired to convince many on how these artifacts were attributed.

The word "Igbo" has been proven by Igbo and non-Igbo historians to be not of distant origin. As this article showed, the Igbo were a union of disjointed groups, some of whom were reluctant in accepting the term, or even considered it offensive to their original identities.

My question is, if the word "Igbo" was of recent usage and was considered pejorative by some referred to as Igbo then, how could ancient arts of people who hardly called themselves by such name be called "Igbo Ukwu" and attributed to the Igbo people?

The Meaning of Igbo

"The outlook on Nigerian politics which gives primacy of place to ethnic boxing matches, particularly between the big three tribes, simply refuses to face up to such realities of Nigerian politics. Even when a distinguished scholar, with a world stature, like the late Professor Kenneth Onwuka Dike, points out that these ethnic groups of Nigeria, like the Igbo are recent formations, this is almost completely ignored, because it goes so much against the grain. But what Audrey Smock found out during his field work on the politics of ethnic unions in the Eastern Region, conforms with what Dike has brought out.

In a book written with Felicia Ekejiuba, titled, The Aro of South -Eastern Nigeria, 1650-1980: A Study of Socio-Economic Formation and Transformation in Nigeria, published in 1980, they brought out that: ... it is often forgotten, or merely mentioned in the footnote, that Igbo is a modern ethnic category which many of the constituent groups have only recently and often reluctantly accepted as their ethnic identity, often on political and administrative grounds. During the period covered by our study, the now twelve million or more ‘Igbo’ distributed over 30,000 square miles of territory east and west of the Niger were variously referred to either as cultural groups (e.g. the Nri, Isuama, Ezza, or Otanzu), or by the ecological zones in which they are found (e.g. Olu or Oru i.e. the riverain people or Adagbe, people of the flood plain); Enugu, people who live on the hills, Aniocha, people who live on heavily leached and eroded solids; Ohozara, peopleof the savannah; or as occupational groups such as Opi egbe (people who fashion guns), Ndiuzu or Umudioka (blacksmiths, artists and carvers).

And that:

Since Igbo waa used at this time pejoratively to refer to the densely populated uplands, the major sources of slaves, and by extension to slaves, it is not surprisingly that many of these groups have been reluctant to accept the ‘Igbo’ identity.(p.6)

Igbo migration, settlement and intermarriage into, and, at, all nooks and corners of Nigeria and all parts of West, Central and Southern Africa, has even made this identity broader and more fluid. It is no longer a question of when, or, whether, the Ikwerre, the Onitsha, the Asaba and the Ika are Igbo, but where to draw the line between this Igbo and the other ethnic groups of the Rivers and Bayelsa States, for example where according to the 1952 census the Igbo constituted about 40% of the population, of Rivers Province, forming the largest single ethnic group."

Dr. Bala Usman

MalcoImX:

Whether better or not, start your agitations from your ancestral homes.

No wonder they have great affinity and soft touch for Atiku Abubakar, blood is thicker than water

samunaka:

No wonder they have great affinity and soft touch for Atiku Abubakar, blood is thicker than water

I don't know why o!

You say you don't like Fulani but Atiku sef na Fulani.

Benin Republic derives its name from bight of benin while benin is actually in Nigeria so no qualms if igbos name their country after the bight of Biafra evem though Biafra is actually im Cameroun

MalcoImX:


One cannot argue since those artifacts were carbon dated. However, much is desired to convince many on how these artifacts were attributed.

The word "Igbo" has been proven by Igbo and non-Igbo historians to be not of distant origin. As this article showed, the Igbo were a union of disjointed groups, some of whom were reluctant in accepting the term, or even considered it offensive to their original identities.

My question is, if the word "Igbo" was of recent usage and was considered pejorative by some referred to as Igbo then, how could ancient arts of people who hardly called themselves by such name be called "Igbo Ukwu" and attributed to the Igbo people?

Good question. It's the white man that decided to name it Igbo-Ukwu for ease of reference as they did not know what Igboid clan or community formed those arts.
If they have involved Igbos in the naming of that artefact it would have been more accurate to call it Anambara-Ukwu not just Igbo-Ukwu

MalcoImX:


One cannot argue since those artifacts were carbon dated. However, much is desired to convince many on how these artifacts were attributed.

The word "Igbo" has been proven by Igbo and non-Igbo historians to be not of distant origin. As this article showed, the Igbo were a union of disjointed groups, some of whom were reluctant in accepting the term, or even considered it offensive to their original identities.

My question is, if the word "Igbo" was of recent usage and was considered pejorative by some referred to as Igbo then, how could ancient arts of people who hardly called themselves by such name be called "Igbo Ukwu" and attributed to the Igbo people?

Igbo ukwu artifacts belongs to the Igbo.
How did we know?
Because all the ancient artifacts found there, the Igbo natives were able to tell it's use in the past. Igbo ukwu artifacts even have "Ichi" Igbo marks on their faces.

As for how old the word Igbo is. It's as old as the Igbo people.
In Igboland, you identify by your clan name while the next clan is called "Igbo".
It doesn't mean you are not Igbo, it just means you can not be Igbo in your own native land. You are only Igbo outside your own native land.

And you are not serious on the bold. You are not Igbo and obviously in no way equipped for this conversation. I'd advise you stay in your own lane.

Shokoloko:

Good question. It's the white man that decided to name it Igbo-Ukwu for ease of reference as they did not know what Igboid clan or community formed those arts.
If they have involved Igbos in the naming of that artefact it would have been more accurate to call it Anambara-Ukwu not just Igbo-Ukwu

Lol!
Which one is Anambra-ukwu?
That's clownish.

The artifacts was found in a town called Igbo-ukwu, were you expecting them to name it "Ogbomosho" artifacts" ?

Igboid:


Lol!
Which one is Anambra-ukwu?
That's clownish.

The artifacts was found in a town called Igbo-ukwu, were you expecting them to name it "Ogbomosho" artifacts" ?

You would need to read the full discourse and the gentleman's reference to understand my answer.
If the term "Igbo" is a relatively new term coined sometime between the 14th and 16th century and we have artefacts from the 9th century before the word "Igbo" was used, then those artefacts must have been named according to the clan that produced them.

Igboid:


Igbo ukwu artifacts belongs to the Igbo.
How did we know?
Because all the ancient artifacts found there, the Igbo natives were able to tell it's use in the past. Igbo ukwu artifacts even have "Ichi" Igbo marks on their faces.

As for how old the word Igbo is. It's as old as the Igbo people.
In Igboland, you identify by your clan name while the next clan is called "Igbo".
It doesn't mean you are not Igbo, it just means you can not be Igbo in your own native land. You are only Igbo outside your own native land.

And you are not serious on the bold. You are not Igbo and obviously in no way equipped for this conversation. I'd advise you stay in your own lane.

Forget about me. You should counter these Igbo scholars of international repute.

Are they also not qualified to speak on the matter.

Professor Kenneth Onwuka Dike, points out that these ethnic groups of Nigeria, like the Igbo are recent formations, this is almost completely ignored, because it goes so much against the grain.

In a book written with Felicia Ekejiuba, titled, The Aro of South -Eastern Nigeria, 1650-1980: A Study of Socio-Economic Formation and Transformation in Nigeria, published in 1980, they brought out that:

... it is often forgotten, or merely mentioned in the footnote, that Igbo is a modern ethnic category which many of the constituent groups have only recently and often reluctantly accepted as their ethnic identity, often on political and administrative grounds.

MalcoImX:


Forget about me. You should counter these Igbo scholars of international repute.

Are they also not qualified to speak on the matter.

Professor Kenneth Onwuka Dike, points out that these ethnic groups of Nigeria, like the Igbo are recent formations, this is almost completely ignored, because it goes so much against the grain.

In a book written with Felicia Ekejiuba, titled, The Aro of South -Eastern Nigeria, 1650-1980: A Study of Socio-Economic Formation and Transformation in Nigeria, published in 1980, they brought out that:

... it is often forgotten, or merely mentioned in the footnote, that Igbo is a modern ethnic category which many of the constituent groups have only recently and often reluctantly accepted as their ethnic identity, often on political and administrative grounds.

What are you on about?

Igbo ukwu artifacts belongs to Igbo people because the people were able to identify their uses and even one of them had the "Ichi" scarification mark on it.

Igbo as ethnicity the way we see it today is a political organization. But that doesn't mean there was not an "Igbo" identity before Europeans came on board.
The igbo concept is understood by ancient Igbo as a name to call their neighbors who speak similar dialects but not themselves.
I call my self "Onye Ogidi" and call an Awka man that ventures into Ogidi "Onye Igbo". When I leave Ogidi and get to Awka, Awka people will call me "Onye Igbo" while calling themselves "Ndi Awka".
But if someone whose dialect is not Igbo comes to Awka, they would never call such person "Onye Igbo", because they understand the Igbo concept as someone speaking a related dialect to their own Awka dialect.

Olauda Equiano book is probably the oldest book on Igbo people and he identified himself and his people as Igbos.

Igboid:


What are you on about?

Igbo ukwu artifacts belongs to Igbo people because the people were able to identify their uses and even one of them had the "Ichi" scarification mark on it.

Igbo as ethnicity the way we see it today is a political organization. But that doesn't mean there was not an "Igbo" identity before Europeans came on board.
The igbo concept is understood by ancient Igbo as a name to call their neighbors who speak similar dialects but not themselves.
I call my self "Onye Ogidi" and call an Awka man that ventures into Ogidi "Onye Igbo". When I leave Ogidi and get to Awka, Awka people will call me "Onye Igbo" while calling themselves "Ndi Awka".
But if someone whose dialect is not Igbo comes to Awka, they would never call such person "Onye Igbo", because they understand the Igbo concept as someone speaking a related dialect to their own Awka dialect.

Olauda Equiano book is probably the oldest book on Igbo people and he identified himself and his people as Igbos.

Confusing. Looks like a caste system and may lead to discrimination.

I may want to review Equiano's book since you it's the oldest book on Igbo history.

Boudiccao:


LMAO. The Igboukwu arts and kingdom already shows that Igbos were way more advanced than other tribes in pre colonial Nigeria to the effect that white people tried to give Igbos a non African origin.
Choke on your foolishness.

What has your statement got to do with mine?

MalcoImX:
Confusing. Looks like a caste system and may lead to discrimination.

I may want to review Equiano's book since you it's the oldest book on Igbo history.

Equaino wasn't even ibo. If his story is to be believed at all he was Etsako, in Present day Edo state. As is widely known, it is claimed that he's from "Essaka in the Benin Kingdom". But as usual, our brothers hijacked the story and someone claimed everything for themselves.

MajorLeaguePlay:


Equaino wasn't even ibo. If his story is to be believed at all he was Etsako, in Present day Edo state. As is widely known, it is claimed that he's from "Essaka in the Benin Kingdom". But as usual, our brothers hijacked the story and someone claimed everything for themselves.

1. Olaudah is not a Benin name
2. Benin men do not practice Ichi scarification. If Benin men practice Ichi scarification then their origin is Igbo


Olaudah Equiano or Gustavus Vassa – What's in a ... - JISCMailhttps://www.jiscmail.ac.uk › cgi-bin › webadmin

Shokoloko:


1. Olaudah is not a Benin name
2. Benin men do not practice Ichi scarification. If Benin men practice Ichi scarification then their origin is Igbo

And what does Olaudah mean in Ibo? And where are "Essaka and Benin Kingdom" located in Ibo land? Also please tell me where the Anambra you quoted is located in the Benin Kingdom.

Ichi ko, Ichu ni.

MajorLeaguePlay:


And what does Olaudah mean in Ibo? And where are "Essaka and Benin Kingdom" located in Ibo land? Also please tell me where the Anambra you quoted is located in the Benin Kingdom.

Ichi ko, Ichu ni.

Please refer to screenshots. Your questions are answered in the screenshots.
Do Benin men practice ichi scarification like Olaudah's father did? Ichi is only known to the Igbos.

Shokoloko:

Please refer to screenshots. Your questions are answered in the screenshots.
Do Benin men practice ichi scarification like Olaudah's father did? Ichi is only known to the Igbos.

In typical deceitful fashion, you didn’t answer the questions.

Olaudah WAS NOT Ibo.

Shokoloko:

Please refer to screenshots. Your questions are answered in the screenshots.
Do Benin men practice ichi scarification like Olaudah's father did? Ichi is only known to the Igbos.

How you guys love to revise history is beyond me. Every 5th grader in this country knows his story, but for some weird reason —in the last 8-10yrs +— you guys have taken this weird stance of rewriting history and claiming him to be ibo without any evidence.

Anyway, you’re the same ones that think you’re the original Jews. So, no surprises here I guess.

MajorLeaguePlay:
How you guys love to revise history is beyond me. Every 5th grader in this country knows his story, but for some weird reason —in the last 8-10yrs +— you guys have taken this weird stance of rewriting history and claiming him to be ibo without any evidence.

Anyway, you’re the same ones that think you’re the original Jews. So, no surprises here I guess.

I didn't rewrite history, I didn't claim him. What concerns me with him? Please refer to screenshot and send your counter screenshots if any, so that we all can learn.
Refrain from calling me a Jew. Kindly accord me the same level of decorum I have accorded you.

Shokoloko:


I didn't rewrite history, I didn't claim him. What concerns me with him? Please refer to screenshot and send your counter screenshots if any, so that we all can learn.
Refrain from calling me a Jew. Kindly accord me the same level of decorum I have accorded you.

Stfu, your screenshot says nothing. Answer the simple questions, history reviser.

MajorLeaguePlay:
Stfu, your screenshot says nothing. Answer the simple questions, history reviser.

Kindly refrain from insulting people you are having a debate with. And no, I will not be baited into insulting back

When people are about to lose an argument, they quickly move from the topic of discussion and attack the person they are arguing with, in order to distract from the original topic.
Show me screenshots to support your counter-argument

More

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3819289

Second screenshot is a page from inside Olaudah Equaino's book: ONLY Igbos compare their culture with Jews and Olaudah 200 years ago did just that

Shokoloko:
More

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3819289

Second screenshot is a page from inside Olaudah Equaino's book: ONLY Igbos compare their culture with Jews and Olaudah 200 years ago did just that

Again stfu and answer my questions, I don't care about your screenshots. Its like you guys never employ commonsense. A slave, whose first language is not English, whose memory is blurred and distorted by time and trauma + a slave master who is doing his best to make sense of what his African slave is telling him.....

Look at the nonsense you used to back up your silly assertion: Judaism. roflmao when did you guys start calling yourselves Jews? Circumcision was practiced by almost every Nigerian Society, it wasn't unique to just your ethnic group.

Again: what does Olaudah mean in Ibo? And where are "Essaka and Benin Kingdom" located in Ibo land? Also please tell me where the Anambra you quoted is located in the Benin Kingdom.

MajorLeaguePlay:



Again stfu and answer my questions, I don't care about your screenshots. Its like you guys never employ commonsense. A slave, whose first language is not English, whose memory is blurred and distorted by time and trauma + a slave master who is doing his best to make sense of what his African slave is telling him.....

Look at the nonsense you used to back up your silly assertion: Judaism. roflmao when did you guys start calling yourselves Jews?

Again: what does Olaudah mean in Ibo? And where are "Essaka and Benin Kingdom" located in Ibo land? Also please tell me where the Anambra you quoted is located in the Benin Kingdom.

Kindly refer to earlier screenshots, son.

Lets have your counter-references not claims. Please do not bring in Wikipedia as it is very unreliable: anyone can make changes to Wikipedia