Moniter0:
this is hilarious. I am not the one that called it the ministry of death, the Bible did!

And same Bible and Paul called it, "holy, righteous and good". Is sin which produces death a good thing? Is it from God?

Can't you see that you're contradicting Paul? I say YOU because obviously you don't understand what Paul meant by "ministry of death". If Paul meant that the Law (Ten Commandments) is death, how come he said same Law is good?

Moniter0:

And yes it says that the law is just and holy, but it doesn't say it can make us just and holy, only Jesus has made us just and holy, because we are JUSTified and sanctified (made holy) by faith in Him. Get that?

So the righteousness, holiness and goodness of the Law is for what?

Moniter0:

It seems you just decided to evade the context of Romans 7, because it says that those were under the law are now dead to the law and have been delivered FROM the law. Meaning we have no relationship with the law whatsoever.

What does it mean to be "under the law" and what law?

Moniter0:
the question is the just and holy standard of the law same as God himself?

God is spiritual, same as the Law which He gave. He also said the Law is: holy, righteous and good, and these attributes are His own qualities.

Holiness is holiness, goodness is goodness and righteousness is righteousness; they are not measured using tape.

Interestingly, Jesus said no one is good except God (Luke 18:19). And the next thing God called good is His Law.

What is that to you? Why is God and the Law good? Again, why is both God and the Law spiritual?

You have your answer.

Moniter0:

So the law is no where near the just, holy and good standard of God, otherwise there were people who were observing the law in Jesus' time, yet Jesus said none of the was good except God.

And the next thing God called good after His own Self is the Law.

What is that to you?

Splinz:


And same Bible and Paul called it, "holy, righteous and good". Is sin which produces death a good thing? Is it from God?

Can't you see that you're contradicting Paul? I say YOU because obviously you don't understand what Paul meant by "ministry of death". If Paul meant that the Law (Ten Commandments) is death, how come he said same Law is good?



So the righteousness, holiness and goodness of the Law is for what?



What does it mean to be "under the law" and what law?

For the upteempth time, I did not say the law is the ministry of death, the Bible did!

2.Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

The ten commandments was the ministry of death that was written and engraved on stones! Can you see it now?

The law is the ministry of death, it is good, just and holy, but it ends up ministering death in the sense that no one can actually keep it both inwardly and outwardly, therefore everyone fall short of it's glorious standard. It can produce life, but due to the sinful nature of man, it kills him.

Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

And in context, Paul was referring to the ten commandments because it says that the person wouldn't have known covetousness if not for the law says that shall not covert, and we know that it is the ten commandments that says such.

Those who were under law are dead to the law, which is the law of Moses.

The dispensation of the law ended with the establishment of the new covenant. We are now under grace, meaning that we don't keep the requirements of the law to be saved or made righteous in the sight of God, rather we receive righteousness freely by faith in Christ

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

There is no need for the law, because we are now led by the Spirit as opposed to being led by the law. Get it?

Splinz:


And the next thing God called good after His own Self is the Law.

What is that to you?

nah, God says actually that the new man (new creation) is created after Him in righteousness and true holiness, not the law

Ephesians 4:24

Splinz:


And same Bible and Paul called it, "holy, righteous and good". Is sin which produces death a good thing? Is it from God?

Can't you see that you're contradicting Paul? I say YOU because obviously you don't understand what Paul meant by "ministry of death". If Paul meant that the Law (Ten Commandments) is death, how come he said same Law is good?



So the righteousness, holiness and goodness of the Law is for what?



What does it mean to be "under the law" and what law?

the righteousness, goodness and holiness of the law was to show you how unrighteous, unholy and bad you were, and why you needed Jesus to make you good!

Acts 13:39 MSG
39 He accomplishes, in those who believe, everything that the Law of Moses could never make good on. But everyone who believes in this raised-up Jesus is declared good and right and whole before God.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/msg/acts/13-39.html?amp

Moniter0:
^{For the upteempth time, I did not say the law is the ministry of death, the Bible did!
2.Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
The ten commandments was the ministry of death that was written and engraved on stones! Can you see it now?}

And same Law is good. If the Ten Commandments produces death, which is the wages of sin, how come it is good just like God? Is God the origin of sin?

You're misapplying and twisting what Paul is teaching in 2 Corinthians 3:7 to further spread your ideas, just like you did with the law of circumcision.

Moniter0:

^{The law is the ministry of death, it is good, just and holy, but it ends up ministering death in the sense that no one can actually keep it both inwardly and outwardly, therefore everyone fall short of it's glorious standard. It can produce life, but due to the sinful nature of man, it kills him.}

Is the Law sin, i.e, death? Paul said, "God forbid!" (Roman 7:7).

You see, you're teaching lies and falsehood. Instead of rejecting sin, you're rejecting the Law which is good.

Moniter0:

^{Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.}

Why didn't you start from verse 7? Cunning man.

Same Paul is exposing your deception. The Law is not sin; death.

Moniter0:

^{The dispensation of the law ended with the establishment of the new covenant. We are now under grace, meaning that we don't keep the requirements of the law to be saved or made righteous in the sight of God, rather we receive righteousness freely by faith in Christ}

What is the New Covenant and what was the Old?

Moniter0:

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

There you go again. Which law? That was how you misapplied the law of circumcision earlier. Up till now, you still haven't shown anyone who is seeking physical circumcision as a Christian.

Moniter0:

There is no need for the law, because we are now led by the Spirit as opposed to being led by the law. Get it?

But the Law is not carnal but spiritual (Romans 7:14). Saying there's no need for the Law is like saying there's no need for the holy Spirit.

You see, your position is contradictory, actually shooting yourself on the foot. It's expected when one is lying. Also, it's either you're ignorant of the Law or simply trying to deceive undiscerning minds. I want to believe it's the former.

Moniter0:
the righteousness, goodness and holiness of the law was to show you how unrighteous, unholy and bad you were, and why you needed Jesus to make you good!

So after showing me, righteousness, goodness and holiness was done away that what may abide? Unrighteousness, unholiness and wickedness?

The more you try to defend what is obviously a lie, the more ridiculous it sounds.

Moniter0:

Acts 13:39 MSG
39 He accomplishes, in those who believe, everything that the Law of Moses could never make good on. But everyone who believes in this raised-up Jesus is declared good and right and whole before God.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/msg/acts/13-39.html?amp

Now I know where you're picking the wrong things from.

Why not study the scriptures for yourself and do away with falsehood?

Splinz:


And same Law is good. If the Ten Commandments produces death, which is the wages of sin, how come it is good just like God? Is God the origin of sin?

You're misapplying and twisting what Paul is teaching in 2 Corinthians 3:7 to further spread your ideas, just like you did with the law of circumcision.



Is the Law sin, i.e, death? Paul said, "God forbid!" (Roman 7:7).

You see, you're teaching lies and falsehood. Instead of rejecting sin, you're rejecting the Law which is good.



Why didn't you start from verse 7? Cunning man.

Same Paul is exposing your deception. The Law is not sin; death.



What is the New Covenant and what was the Old?



There you go again. Which law? That was how you misapplied the law of circumcision earlier. Up till now, you still haven't shown anyone who is seeking physical circumcision as a Christian.



But the Law is not carnal but spiritual (Romans 7:14). Saying there's no need for the Law is like saying there's no need for the holy Spirit.

You see, your position is contradictory, actually shooting yourself on the foot. It's expected when one is lying. Also, it's either you're ignorant of the Law or simply trying to deceive undiscerning minds. I want to believe it's the former.

hilarious. This is so ludicrous! You are accusing me of the very things that you are! What a topsy-turvy! I have used scriptures to tell you that the law is just, and holy yet it cannot minister life to man because of the sinful nature of man. Didn't I say so? There is nothing wrong with the law, but Paul says, when it flows through him, it kills him! Did you not read that?

Or does the it not say in Romans 7 that those under the law are dead to the law? And delivered from the law? The law is just and good, but it cannot make anyone righteous and good, only the grace of God in Christ did!
The law was given to make everyone see that they were sinners in need of a Saviour, when the law has done its job, it is no longer needed, because the Spirit is in the life of the believer to help him live in the way God wants and bear fruits! . When the law was given at Mount Sinai, in the first Pentecost (exactly 50 days after the Jews celebrated Passover) 3000 people died, but in another Pentecost, in the new testament, God gave the Spirit and 3000 people were saved! Which goes to show that the law kills but the Spirit gives life! The law arouses sinful passions that results in death according to the scriptures!

Stop abusing the law and know it's purpose , “for when the purpose of a thing is not known, the abuse is inevitable”.

Romans 3:19-20 NLT
Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

Romans 7:4 AMP
Therefore, my fellow believers, you too died to the Law through the [crucified] body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

Romans 7:5 NLT
When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death.

Galatians 5:18 NLT
But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.

Splinz:


So after showing me, righteousness, goodness and holiness was done away that what may abide? Unrighteousness, unholiness and wickedness?

The more you try to defend what is obviously a lie, the more ridiculous it sounds.



Now I know where you're picking the wrong things from.

Why not study the scriptures for yourself and do away with falsehood?

the law was done away with having fullfil it's purpose of making the world see their need for Christ. Christ is the one that can make people just, holy and good, not the law

John 1:17 AMP
For the Law was given through Moses, BUT grace [the unearned, undeserved favor of God] and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Acts 13:39 AMP
He accomplishes, in those who believe, everything that the Law of Moses could never make good on. But everyone who believes in this raised-up Jesus is declared good and right and whole before God.

Moniter0:

Galatians 5:18 NLT
But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.

Says someone who still does not know that the Law is spiritual (Romans 7:14). You only ended up exposing yourself as one who neither have the holy Spirit nor direction from it. I know your problem, this is it:

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be (Romans 8:7).

Carnality is your problem, not God's righteous, holy and good Law.

Again, this is another problem you have:

as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures (2 Peter 3:16)

This is Peter speaking of Paul's epistles, of which the unlearned twist and misapplied to their hurt, just like what you're doing. This truth perfectly captures who you are:

desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm (1 Timothy 1:7)

It has been proven already, for example, how you twist and misapplied what Paul taught specifically about the law of physical circumcision. Up till now, you haven't provided anyone seeking to obey that law as a Christian, warranting the scriptural injunction against it. One was hoping you'll stop twisting and misapplying the scriptures further, with obvious contradictions everywhere, but no, you're proving otherwise.

James, a bondservant of God was inspired to write:

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well (James 2:8 )

Did you see that? He says those who keep the Ten Commandments, a royal Law [befitting the King of kings], "do well". He did not say they are cursed, wrong or in bondage.

When summarize as Christ did (Matthew 22:37-40), “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” is the fifth to tenth law wrapped together as the second commandment, whilst the first to fourth is the first and greatest. Furthermore, James went on to show that anyone who breaks any part of this Law is a transgressor, a sinner (verse 9-11). And no wonder sin is breaking the Law (1 John 3:4). It must also be noted that the principle of breaking one part of the Law and breaking ALL only applies to the Ten Commandments, given the examples that James cited. Or is the law of circumcision for instance, part of the Ten Commandments? And lastly, Christians are instructed to speak and act as those who will be judged by the "Law of liberty" (James 2:12). Law of what? Liberty! Obviously, the same Ten Commandments you claimed brings death, sin and bondage. Are you not tired of lying against God's holy, righteous and good Law? Be careful, for it is God you lied against.

Unlike the lies you would want undiscerning minds to believe, when there's no Law it means there's no sin; no wrong anywhere (Romans 4:15), period. Also, if the Law has been abolished, it means there's nothing like love, for love is the commandments and keeping of same (Romans 13:10, 1 John 5:3). But the scriptures says:

Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5)

And what is the love of God? His commandments! Indeed, was it not prophesied:

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them? (Hebrews 10:16)

What is the New Testament or Covenant? The Law, fulfilled in Romans 5:5; the love of God being His commandments!

You may not appreciate these truths as a carnal mind who is an enemy with God and His commandments. Of course, the love of God is not shed in the minds of carnal people. Nevertheless, those able to discern the truth will hold and treasure it. Also, since you do not want to humble yourself and learn those "things hard to understand", as taught by Paul, you may as well enjoy your delusion and hurt.

@Moniter0

Thank you for this great thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnrYB7gVbTw

This song moves me to tears and makes me want to know Jesus more.

Splinz:


Says someone who still does not know that the Law is spiritual (Romans 7:14). You only ended up exposing yourself as one who neither have the holy Spirit nor direction from it. I know your problem, this is it: Carnality is your problem, not God's righteous, holy and good Law.

Again, this is another problem you have: This is Peter speaking of Paul's epistles, of which the unlearned twist and misapplied to their hurt, just like what you're doing. This truth perfectly captures who you are:

It has been proven already, for example, how you twist and misapplied what Paul taught specifically about the law of physical circumcision. Up till now, you haven't provided anyone seeking to obey that law as a Christian, warranting the scriptural injunction against it. One was hoping you'll stop twisting and misapplying the scriptures further, with obvious contradictions everywhere, but no, you're proving otherwise.

James, a bondservant of God was inspired to write: Did you see that? He says those who keep the Ten Commandments, a royal Law [befitting the King of kings], "do well". He did not say they are cursed, wrong or in bondage.

When summarize as Christ did (Matthew 22:37-40), “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” is the fifth to tenth law wrapped together as the second commandment, whilst the first to fourth is the first and greatest. Furthermore, James went on to show that anyone who breaks any part of this Law is a transgressor, a sinner (verse 9-11). And no wonder sin is breaking the Law (1 John 3:4). It must also be noted that the principle of breaking one part of the Law and breaking ALL only applies to the Ten Commandments, given the examples that James cited. Or is the law of circumcision for instance, part of the Ten Commandments? And lastly, Christians are instructed to speak and act as those who will be judged by the "Law of liberty" (James 2:12). Law of what? Liberty! Obviously, the same Ten Commandments you claimed brings death, sin and bondage. Are you not tired of lying against God's holy, righteous and good Law? Be careful, for it is God you lied against.

Unlike the lies you would want undiscerning minds to believe, when there's no Law it means there's no sin; no wrong anywhere (Romans 4:15), period. Also, if the Law has been abolished, it means there's nothing like love, for love is the commandments and keeping of same (Romans 13:10, 1 John 5:3). But the scriptures says: And what is the love of God? His commandments! Indeed, was it not prophesied: What is the New Testament or Covenant? The Law, fulfilled in Romans 5:5; the love of God being His commandments!

You may not appreciate these truths as a carnal mind who is an enemy with God and His commandments. Of course, the love of God is not shed in the minds of carnal people. Nevertheless, those able to discern the truth will hold and treasure it. Also, since you do not want to humble yourself and learn those "things hard to understand", as taught by Paul, you may as well enjoy your delusion and hurt.

hilarious. Another Topsy turvy. You accuse me of being against God's law because I showed you from the scriptures the purpose of God's law, while actually you are the one who is against God's laws because you are trying for not agreeing with what the Bible says the purpose of the law is. I never said the law is unholy, unjust and bad, so I your ludicrous and mendacious accusations against me are so much unfounded. I am the one who is actually for the law, for the reason God gave it.

It is even more ludicrous and detrimental to your already discomfited stance that you brought Peter into this. This issue of Law and Grace was debated in the Jerusalem church council and Peter himself said that they believe they are saved by grace, after calling the law “a yoke” that neither they nor their ancestors have been able to bear (or keep)!

And the verdict of the whole matter was that they would not teach the law to the Gentiles! In other words, grace won!

Acts 15
New International Version
The Council at Jerusalem
15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

So even Peter himself stood with grace, while you are here twisting scriptures to support your already discomfited stance.

Concerning the law that Jesus quoted in Matthew, we know that he was responding to a question asked by an expert in the law concerning the greatest commandment in the old testament, so did you expect Jesus to tell him otherwise? Jesus gave him the right answer! He never put believers in the new covenant under such law, he was responding to a Jewish audience who was at that time under law! Meanwhile he redeemed them from the law through his death according to the scriptures! The law that Jesus gave to his disciples in John 13, which is He called the NEW law/commandment is for the new covenant. It is also this law that John talked about in his epistles, not the old covenant law of loving your neighbor as yourself, but loving one another as the Lord has loved you, the emphasis is not on loving others like you love yourself but loving one another as God himself has loved you, [/b]so it is not about your love for God anymore but His love for you! And you will end up loving one and loving God another as you focus on His love for you.

John 13:34 KJV
A NEW commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1 John 3:23 KJV
And [b]this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:10 TLB
In this act we see what real love is: it is not our love for God but his love for us when he sent his Son to satisfy God’s anger against our sins

1 John 4:19 KJV
We love him, because he first loved us.

Hilarious, you dare quote from Hebrews 10, but you did not quote Hebrews 8, which says that the new covenant is NOT like the covenant that God made with the Israelites when he brought them out of Egypt? That was when God gave them the law, so it goes on to say that God Himself found fault with the old covenant because the Israelites COULD NOT keep it, therefore he sought to establish another covenant not as the first. So obviously the laws he was referring to is not Moses' law but the law that would make us to know God in our hearts.

It also went on to say that the old/first covenant is now obsolete and ready to vanish away. So God did not merge the old covenant and the new covenant together, He REPLACED the old with the new!

Hebrews 8:7-13
New King James Version

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant [/b]with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 [b]not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember NO more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first OBSOLETE. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing OLD is ready to VANISH AWAY.

helpfulposts:
@Moniter0

Thank you for this great thread

It is the Lord's doing

@Myer, I invite you to see this short sermon too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2c0SbFim6w
Galatians 5:4 NLT
For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

Galatians 5:1 NLT
So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.

Moniter0:
Galatians 5:1 NLT
So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.

HUMAN WORSHIPPER

Moniter0:
@Myer, I invite you to see this short sermon too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2c0SbFim6w
Galatians 5:4 NLT
For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

Will you say the other apostles were cut off from Christ?
Cos they preached Christ and repentance from sins.
They even taught extensively about the acceptable life style expected of believers.

No comment

Myer:


Will you say the other apostles were cut off from Christ?
Cos they preached Christ and repentance from sins.
They even taught extensively about the acceptable life style expected of believers.

Did they preach converting from bad to good morals as a condition to be saved?

Moniter0:


Did they preach converting from bad to good morals as a condition to be saved?

Actually yes. Besides Paul,
1. John in Revelations 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

2. Jude in Jude 1:14-16
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." 16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage.

3. Peter
2 Peter 2FALSE PROPHETS AND TEACHERS

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds) - 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

Myer:


Actually yes. Besides Paul,
1. John in Revelations 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

2. Jude in Jude 1:14-16
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." 16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage.

3. Peter
2 Peter 2FALSE PROPHETS AND TEACHERS

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds) - 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

Revelations 21:8 has nothing to do with Believers, God doesn't address believers as “fearful and unbelieving...etc” there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And sins are not imputed to believers because they are already imputed to Jesus at the cross. God sees believers in Christ as righteous, holy, fautless and blameless (see Col 1:22, Eph 1:4), He sees them as Sons!
When you go to the context of Rev 21:8, the previous verse (vs 7) says “He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”,
In another place it says “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.” Revelations 2:11
So who is he that overcometh and will not be hurt if the second death (lake of fire)? The believer! John who wrote the book of Revelations, writes in answer in his own epistle!:
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Like I have been tell you, believers have nothing to fear as regards to judgement. Jesus is not coming to deal with the sins of the believers, rather he is coming to rapture the believers while he will come back to judge the world. Believers will already be in heaven with their glorious bodies when Jesus will judge the world and the Bible says they be with the Lord forever! So my advice is take the first train that comes—rapture.

In Jude, it says
"Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment...” so who are the saints that Jesus would come with? Again believers! The apostles addressed believers as Saints in the new testament. Jesus is not coming to execute Judgement on believers, he will come to deliver believers from the coming wrath/judgement.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 KJV
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Hebrews 9:28 NLT
so also Christ was offered once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

It is only those who know and believe that Jesus is not coming back to judge their sins that can eagerly wait for him, those who are fearful about the rapture think that Jesus is coming to judge them for there is. But he already dealt with sins in his first coming! He will come with Believers/Saints after the rapture to judge all. There is even a place in 1.Corintians that says believers will judge angels! Believers are the saints in Christ.
Did you also see where it says in Jude 5 that God destroyed them that believed not? So this context of Jude is clearly talking about unbelievers, not believers. So quit taking scriptures out of context. Believers are eternally secured in Christ. Also the Bible never address believers are “sinners” through out the new testament epistles, rather they are addressed as Saints! Even Jude addressed the believers are holy/sanctified people (see Vs 1)

Concerning the false the preachers, it says they will deny the Lord Jesus, let me ask you this question: are you denying the Lord Jesus? For me, preaching grace exalts the Lord Jesus. People rest in Him as their Lord, their righteousness and holiness. So this false teacher talk doesn't hold water for true believers who are under grace. And let me tell you as I have told you before, Grace is the antidote to sin. The Bible says sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under law but under grace. So if you really desire for people to reign over sin, preach God's grace, and sin will not dominate them.
Lastly, the other apostles including Peter and John also preached grace!

Moniter0:


Revelations 21:8 has nothing to do with Believers, God doesn't address believers as “fearful and unbelieving...etc” there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And sins are not imputed to believers because they are already imputed to Jesus at the cross. God sees believers in Christ as righteous, holy, fautless and blameless (see Col 1:22, Eph 1:4), He sees them as Sons!
When you go to the context of Rev 21:8, the previous verse (vs 7) says “He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”,
In another place it says “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.” Revelations 2:11
So who is he that overcometh and will not be hurt if the second death (lake of fire)? The believer! John who wrote the book of Revelations, writes in answer in his own epistle!:
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Like I have been tell you, believers have nothing to fear as regards to judgement. Jesus is not coming to deal with the sins of the believers, rather he is coming to rapture the believers while he will come back to judge the world. Believers will already be in heaven with their glorious bodies when Jesus will judge the world and the Bible says they be with the Lord forever! So my advice is take the first train that comes—rapture.

In Jude, it says
"Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment...” so who are the saints that Jesus would come with? Again believers! The apostles addressed believers as Saints in the new testament. Jesus is not coming to execute Judgement on believers, he will come to deliver believers from the coming wrath/judgement.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 KJV
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Hebrews 9:28 NLT
so also Christ was offered once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

It is only those who know and believe that Jesus is not coming back to judge their sins that can eagerly wait for him, those who are fearful about the rapture think that Jesus is coming to judge them for there is. But he already dealt with sins in his first coming! He will come with Believers/Saints after the rapture to judge all. There is even a place in 1.Corintians that says believers will judge angels! Believers are the saints in Christ.
Did you also see where it says in Jude 5 that God destroyed them that believed not? So this context of Jude is clearly talking about unbelievers, not believers. So quit taking scriptures out of context. Believers are eternally secured in Christ. Also the Bible never address believers are “sinners” through out the new testament epistles, rather they are addressed as Saints! Even Jude addressed the believers are holy/sanctified people (see Vs 1)

Concerning the false the preachers, it says they will deny the Lord Jesus, let me ask you this question: are you denying the Lord Jesus? For me, preaching grace exalts the Lord Jesus. People rest in Him as their Lord, their righteousness and holiness. So this false teacher talk doesn't hold water for true believers who are under grace. And let me tell you as I have told you before, Grace is the antidote to sin. The Bible says sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under law but under grace. So if you really desire for people to reign over sin, preach God's grace, and sin will not dominate them.
Lastly, the other apostles including Peter and John also preached grace!

I appreciate your connection of 1 John 5:5 with Revelations 21:8.
But how do you explain 2 Peter 2?

Myer:


But how do you explain 2 Peter 2?

I have explained it already. Second Peter chapter two is dealing with false teachers, and it all started by denying the Lord, so are you thinking of denying the Lord?

If you really don't want people to become false teachers/brethen then teach and established people in the truth of God's grace, the false teachers that infiltrated in the church in Galatia did so by trying to pervert the gospel by introducing the law (Gal 1:6-9), and as a result, the works of the flesh began to manifest among them. But when you're under grace you will be led by the Spirit and bear the fruits. Let me ask you this question: who will know how good, gracious and lovely God is and still want to deny him? Preaching God's grace and love will cause people to fall in love with him and trust him more because faith works by love according to the scriptures. If I have your WhatsApp contact, I may be share e-books/sermons that will help you grow in grace. Like Paul said to the church of Ephesus in Acts 20 before he departed from them that it is the word of God's grace that is able to build them up and give them an inheritance among the saints. So what is able to build us up? The word of His grace!

Acts 20:32
Amplified Bible
32 And now I commend you to God [placing you in His protective, loving care] and [I commend you] to the word of His grace [the counsel and promises of His unmerited favor]. His grace is able to build you up and to give you the [rightful] inheritance among all those who are sanctified [that is, among those who are set apart for God’s purpose—all believers].

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9sWEf_6ZS8&t=3s

Jesus has made the finish line your starting post!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20RnGi35DQw&t=104s

You need to see this Myer

This is an amazing article, you guys need to see this:
https://faq.josephprince.org/article/556-is-there-a-place-for-repentance-when-you-ve-fallen-short-what-does-it-mean-to-practice-repentance-when-we-fail

Cc Jiggaz, Myer, Thugnificent, alBHAGDADI, all!

Moniter0:
This is an amazing article, you guys need to see this:
https://faq.josephprince.org/article/556-is-there-a-place-for-repentance-when-you-ve-fallen-short-what-does-it-mean-to-practice-repentance-when-we-fail

Cc Jiggaz, Myer, Thugnificent, alBHAGDADI, all!

Joseph Prince is always amazing.. I thank God for his life.

jiggaz:
Joseph Prince is always amazing.. I thank God for his life.

Yeah, God be praised!

Happy Sunday all

Join the new creation Sunday service live!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCkZA7R-D0Y