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Benin Own Ife Bronze - Culture - Nairaland

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Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 9:36am On Aug 24, 2021
IFE bronzes mysteriously appear in 1938, this appearance has help to prove that the Yorubas also had inventions and civilization in precolonial era. But surprisingly this bronze were from Benin city and was produced by Felix idubor father the year 1931, this art work was for some Yoruba dancers who came to Oba of Benin palace to participate in Oba Eweka 11 end of year event it is never past Ooni image,Also this art skill Felix idubor developed and excel with it,

1 Like

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by niggadee(m): 10:29am On Aug 24, 2021
Oba of benin na yoruba man you benin people too stubborn like goat do your calculation yoruba population big pass una and yoruba civilised benin empire

12 Likes

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 10:51am On Aug 24, 2021
mr1759:
IFE bronzes mysteriously appear in 1938, this appearance has help to prove that the Yorubas also had inventions and civilization in precolonial era. But surprisingly this bronze were from Benin city and was produced by Felix idubor father the year 1931, this art work was for some Yoruba dancers who came to Oba of Benin palace to participate in Oba Eweka 11 end of year event it is never past Ooni image,Also this art skill Felix idubor developed and excel with it,

The British used modern technology to carbon date these back to the 9th century so is Felix Idubor some immortal man or are you just a fool? Added to that the crown used is very clearly one worn by the ooni of ife till this day and those line patterns on the face of it are synonimous to artefacts found in Ife.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 1:48pm On Aug 24, 2021
Abohboy:


The British used modern technology to carbon date these back to the 9th century so is Felix Idubor some immortal man or are you just a fool? Added to that the crown used is very clearly one worn by the ooni of ife till this day and those line patterns on the face of it are synonimous to artefacts found in Ife.


Funny how Yoruba come up with stories just to be superior over Edo, if this image was Ooni look how come past Ooni did not use this type of crown except Ooni ogunwusi why was there no continuity The this picture will tell that there is no continuity in pattern

2 Likes

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 1:52pm On Aug 24, 2021
IFE / Yoruba do not make bronze sculptures nor are they into bronze casting is purely Benin invention

2 Likes

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 2:26pm On Aug 24, 2021
mr1759:
IFE bronzes mysteriously appear in 1938, this appearance has help to prove that the Yorubas also had inventions and civilization in precolonial era. But surprisingly this bronze were from Benin city and was produced by Felix idubor father the year 1931, this art work was for some Yoruba dancers who came to Oba of Benin palace to participate in Oba Eweka 11 end of year event it is never past Ooni image,Also this art skill Felix idubor developed and excel with it,

There is something very unsettling about the way some of you Benin people make sh.it up.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by niggadee(m): 2:26pm On Aug 24, 2021
mr1759:
IFE / Yoruba do not make bronze sculptures nor are they into bronze casting is purely Benin invention
Olodo archaeologist found many head of ife in 1938 at Wunmonije Compound in Ife,

10 Likes

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 2:37pm On Aug 24, 2021
RedboneSmith:


There is something very unsettling about the way some of you Benin people make sh.it up.

Please do not call truth sh.it, instead of the Yoruba to give credit to Edo nation for being the one that first brought civilization to them before Fulani finally colonies the Yoruba before British came, Yoruba be rewriting history to reduce Edo their ancestral land

1 Like

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 2:43pm On Aug 24, 2021
niggadee:
Olodo archaeologist found many head of ife in 1938 at Wunmonije Compound in Ife,

Why archaeologists nor discover oduduwa bone, liars nor worry by the time we start revealing historical truth, Yoruba go run come Oba Benin palace their ancestral home come kneel down beg

1 Like

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 9:58pm On Aug 24, 2021
mr1759:


Funny how Yoruba come up with stories just to be superior over Edo, if this image was Ooni look how come past Ooni did use this type of crown except Ooni ogunwusi why was there no continuity The this picture will tell that there is no continuity in pattern

So you took two pictures online and said that they don't have the same crown? Bring every single picture ever of the king and then we will see every single crown they were, and i'm not yoruba i'm igbo

2 Likes

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 9:59pm On Aug 24, 2021
mr1759:
IFE / Yoruba do not make bronze sculptures nor are they into bronze casting is purely Benin invention

How can you even spew these lies

1 Like

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 10:01pm On Aug 24, 2021
mr1759:


Why archaeologists nor discover oduduwa bone, liars nor worry by the time we start revealing historical truth, Yoruba go run come Oba Benin palace their ancestral home come kneel down beg

Have they even found the bones of St Peter? But yet we know he existed and when have archaelogists found the bones of the first Oba of Benin no they haven't does that mean he doesn't exist? Of course not please stfu. The oldest recorded inhabitance of land in Modern day Southern Nigeria is in yoruba land, ondo state to be precise.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by RedboneSmith(m): 10:21pm On Aug 24, 2021
mr1759:


Why archaeologists nor discover oduduwa bone, liars nor worry by the time we start revealing historical truth, Yoruba go run come Oba Benin palace their ancestral home come kneel down beg

Which of the old Obas of Benin has archaeologists discovered his bones? Eweka? Oguola? Ewuare?

Which one?

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Christistruth00: 10:28pm On Aug 24, 2021
CC TAO12

I think I can now Confirm that you guys are on drugs
Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Christistruth00: 10:33pm On Aug 24, 2021
niggadee:
Oba of benin na yoruba man you benin people too stubborn like goat do your calculation yoruba population big pass una and yoruba civilised benin empire

Oranmiyan didn’t call them Ile Ibinu for Nothing grin grin grin

Their Stubbornness almost drove Oranmiyan the great Warrior and Kingdom builder up the Wall

They must have left him biting on his fingernails , Staring at the Sky and wandering what he had done to deserve such a great Punishment from God Almighty grin

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by YungMillionaire: 10:40pm On Aug 24, 2021
Please stop lying. In fact, it was the Yorubas that taught the Binis how to sculpt bronze. The Ife sculptors came to Bini to teach your ancestors. This is well documented. What I don't understand is the blatant lies. Even if you want to lie, at least make it a sneaky one so that you can confuse at least some people.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Christistruth00: 10:47pm On Aug 24, 2021
YungMillionaire:
Please stop lying. In fact, it was the Yorubas that taught the Binis how to sculpt bronze. The Ife sculptors came to Bini to teach your ancestors. This is well documented. What I don't understand is the blatant lies. Even if you want to lie, at least make it a sneaky one so that you can confuse at least some people.


They know but their Pride can’t take it

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by theInterpreter: 10:51pm On Aug 24, 2021
This is hilarious grin cheesy

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 11:06pm On Aug 24, 2021
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that Binis on Nairaland suffer from strong delusions?

Sometimes, I am forced to think that their oba placed a ban on them from using their brains.

Otherwise, how can an adult (presumably) confidently chat the crap below in a public space?

mr1759:
IFE bronzes mysteriously appear in 1938, this appearance has help to prove that the Yorubas also had inventions and civilization in precolonial era. But surprisingly this bronze were from Benin city and was produced by Felix idubor father the year 1931, this art work was for some Yoruba dancers who came to Oba of Benin palace to participate in Oba Eweka 11 end of year event it is never past Ooni image,Also this art skill Felix idubor developed and excel with it,
Unfortunately for you, you chose the wrongest piece of IFE artwork for your propaganda.

The piece of Ife artwork (which you’ve chosen for your propaganda) is known as the “Olokun” head. See the 1st attachment below.

The “Olokun” head first caught global attention in the early-1900s.

A certain German traveler & ethnographer who goes by the name Leo Frobenius (see 1st attachment) had heard frequent stories about it in the course of his travels through West-Africa in the year 1908.

To quote Frobenius’ own precise words, he writes:

When I came across some experienced explorers in 1908 in the great cities of the Niger on the southern borders of the Sahara, Timbuktu and Wagadugu, and often discussed the antiquity of the far south-eastern cities, Ilife [Ile-ife] was mentioned as the first of five great places and it was only when in Atakpame in South Togoland, that I identified it with Ife. What I was then told in the North was so strange, indeed, that my resolve to visit the place myself at any cost was greatly strengthened. ~ Page 69.

More details in this same regard is given on another page as follows:

I had already heard of the existence of an ancient “statue” of the Olokun. All who had told us of it had consistently declared that it was made of stone, but my informants at Wagadugu [in present-day Burkina-Faso] were emphatic that it was fashioned in a manner of its own. ~ Page 96.

In other words, he had already heard tells about this piece of IFE art from people in other parts of W-Africa even before he visited Ile-Ife to behold it by himself.

The following is Frobenius’ own words on his glimpse (his very first glimpse) of this piece of IFE art.

The lad and another man took a side-path of their own while we went along the main road to the Ebolokun Grove with the “Ancient,” at a pace suited to his great age.

On arrival under the palm-trees, we found that the young fellow had made a short cut. He was carrying a fairly heavy sack slung across his shoulders. It contained the effigy of the God. After Martius had been summoned from the scene of his labours close by, we waited intently for the sack to be opened. The grey-head placed two stones one above the other and he and his son bared the upper parts of their bodies—the invariable custom at all religious ceremonial—dragged something out of the bag, placed it on the stones, and then—well, then—I did two things : I rubbed my eyes and pinched my leg to make sure I was not dreaming and to avert attention from my exceeding joy.

Profoundly stirred, I stood for many minutes before this remnant of the erstwhile Lord and Ruler of the Empire of Atlantis.

Before us stood a head of marvellous beauty, wonderfully cast in antique bronze, true to the life, incrusted with a patina of glorious dark green. This was, in very deed, the Olokun, Atlantic Africa’s Poseidon!

My companions were no less astounded. As though we had agreed to do so, we held our peace. Then I looked around and saw the blacks, the circle of the sons of the “venerable priest,” his Holiness the Oni’s friends, and his intelligent officials. I was moved to silent melancholy at the thought that this assembly of degenerate and feeble-minded posterity should be the legitimate guardians of so much classic loveliness. For that this head of Olokun was almost equal in beauty, and, at least, no less noble in form and as ancient as the terra-cotta heads, had now been demonstrated beyond all doubt.
~ Pages 97-98.

From the foregoing passage, it is very clear — even to the dumbest Bini mind — that the head of “Olokun” was shown to Leo Frobenius in Ile-Ife.

Guess the year when these writings was published? Take a wild guess. Not to worry, I’d help.

All the words of Leo Frobenius which I have quoted so far comes from the first volume of his book which is entitled: “The Voice of Africa”. And this book was published in the year 1913.

Frobenius’ visit to Ife and Yorubaland in general was sometimes between 1910 and 1911. He wrote about these dates as follows:

From now onwards I had to carry out the plans conceived in 1894. I got a sufficient sum for excavation work by way of a loan from the cashbox of a friend, and went on board the Alexandra Woermann with my assistants, Carl Arriens, the artist, and Albrecht Martius, the engineer, in September, 1910. The present book is devoted to an account of this journey and what we accomplished by it. The remainder of 1910 and the early part of 1911 were spent in Yoruba land. ~ Page 36.

Reference: Leo Frobenius, “The Voice of Africa,” Vol 1, (1913), p.36, p.69, p.96, and pp.97-98.
——————-

In the light of the forgoing facts, could you now come forward to explain to how a certain Felix Idubor’s dad produced this bronze head in 1931, yet it (this same very head) was already shown to Leo Frobenius at IFE in the year 1910-11? No be juju be that!? LMAO! cheesy

Cc: niggadee, Abohboy, Christistruth00, nisai, rhektor, YungMillionaire, theInterpreter, gomojam, Adekunle47, r4bbit

The first attachment is from page 308 of L. Frobenius’ book: “The Voice of Africa,” Vol 1 (1913).

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 2:23am On Aug 25, 2021
Having debunked your shitty comment, it may now interest you to learn what your own Benin traditions say regarding the introduction of ‘bronze’ casting into Benin kingdom. The tradition goes as follows:

Oba Oguola wished to introduce brass-casting into Benin so as to produce works of art similar to those sent to him from Ife. He therefore sent to the Oni of Ife for a brasssmith and Iguegha was sent to him.”

~ J. U. Egharevba, “A Short History of Benin,” (4th edn.,1968; First published in 1934), p.11.

Not very surprisingly, this early traditions of the Benin people (which points Ife as the source of their casting tradition) is also corroborated by science.

The Application of carbon-14 & thermoluminescence dating techniques to the Ife artifacts as well as to the Benin artifacts have come to establish that those of Ife were produced centuries earlier.

Refer to pages 18-19 of Calvocoressi & David’s “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979 for details.

mr1759:
[s]IFE / Yoruba do not make bronze sculptures nor are they into bronze casting is purely Benin invention[/s]

Having said that, the attachments below shows the images of two of the few persons who carried on the casting tradition into the 20th/21st century as have been passed down from their predecessors.

This is despite the fact that the casting tradition nearly died out with the collapse of the Ife empire in the 1400s.

Peace!

Cc: niggadee, Abohboy, Christiatruth00, nisai, rhektor, YungMillionaire, theInterpreter, gomojam, r4bbit, Adekunle47
———————

The first attachment is from page 66 of S.P. Blier’s “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba,” 2015.

The second attachment is from page 264 of the same work.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 7:37am On Aug 25, 2021
.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 9:14am On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:
So you took two pictures online and said that they don't have the same crown? Bring every single picture ever of the king and then we will see every single crown they were, and i'm not yoruba i'm igbo
He is obviously a delusional nincompoop.

@mr1759, are you aware that a king can (and actually does) have more than one crown with varying sizes & designs?

Are you aware that there are certain crown-designs of Benin kings (from artifacts) which do not match any of the various crown-designs used by Benin kings today?

Likewise, the Ife king does have the right to adopt any crown design as he pleases, but there is a sacred one which is worn only once a year during Olojo.

This sacred crown also features the circular & vertical diadem which most of the artifact-crowns imitate.

Ceremonial crowns (i.e. the non-sacred crowns such as those seen in most artifacts) may/may not feature the circular & vertical diadem.

In other words, not all the ceremonial crowns (i.e. the crowns seen in artifacts, or the crowns worn everyday) feature the circular & vertical diadem. Please refer to the 1st attachment for an example.

Having clarified that, the 2nd attachment shows the reigning Ooni (Oba Adeyeye E. Ogunwusi) wearing the sacred (once-a-year) crown featuring the circular and vertical diadem.

The 3rd attachment shows the former Ooni (i.e. Oba Okunade Sijuwade) wearing the sacred (once-a-year) crown featuring the circular and vertical diadem.

The 4th attachment shows the earlier Ooni — that is, Oba Adesoji Aderemi — wearing the sacred crown and it also features the circular and vertical diadem.

Peace!

Cc: niggadee, Christistruth00, nisai, YungMillionaire, rhektor, theInterpreter, gomojam, Adekunle47, r4bbit

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 9:58am On Aug 25, 2021
In 1938 Yoruba as a nation unearthed 16 pieces of bronze art work from someone’s compound.

Question, after that dramatic archeological exploration in 1938 ,how many of such similar discoveries have be made ever since in Yoruba land in Egypt archaeologists discover things every day why will Yoruba own be once how do they even know where it was,

Have you people ask your self where those bronze came from,
Yoruba claim to the one who taught Benin bronze making yet is only 16 Pieces of bronze you people could produce since 9th centuries that is over 1000 years, you people use 1000 years to produce 16 pieces of bronze

In European museums alone Benin art that are there is more than 10,000 pieces, then some are America not to talk of the one in Benin the hub of art work yet Yoruba have 16 pieces and is claiming to have taught Benin

1 Like

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by mr1759: 10:24am On Aug 25, 2021
You brought pictures of bronze caster of 1971 and that of 2006 to make claims, you suppose to have know they got the knowledge from Benin go to Britain museum you will find Benin art work of 18 century and beyond,
where is Yoruba art work of 18 century?

stories teller

1 Like

Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 11:00am On Aug 25, 2021
Go to my DP for “Yoruba art work” dating to 1365.

And there are countless others. By the way the artifact at my DP was discovered in 1957, not 1938.

You are actually too foolish to be indulged. Almost too foolish to be alive.

Another example is the first attachment below (which shows the Obalufon head) dating to circa 1300.

This was unveiled by the then Ooni (from the Omirin room where it has been kept for centuries) in 1937.

I dare you, @mr1759 to post a picture of one Benin bronze which is remotely close to these Ife bronzes in beauty. I dare you.
————————

PS:
(1) The first discovery of Ife bronze artifacts was NOT in 1938.

(2) The German, Leo Frobenius made his discoveries at Ife in c.1911.

(3) Then followed the finds of 1938 at Wunmonije.

(4) Then followed the finds of 1957 at Ita-Yemoo.

(5) Then followed more finds of artifacts at different Ife sites such as: Obalara, Woye-Asiri, Lafogido, Oke-Eso, etc.

(6) Bronze artifacts have also turned up in other parts of Yorubaland such as Owo, Kwara, as well as Ijebu.

niggadee, Christistruth00, nisai, YungMillionaire, rhektor, theInterpreter, gomojam, Adekunle47, r4bbit

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by scholes0(m): 12:40pm On Aug 25, 2021
Ife civilization is waay older than anything that has ever come out of or connected to Benin in its current or any of its earlier forms.

As a matter of fact- the civilization of Benin traces directly back to Ife- which was the oldest nexus of civilization in all of tropical west and central Africa. Examples of these flows are in religion, linguistics, arts and artefacts, and the royalty… Including oral and the earliest written/recorded historical records.

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 12:57pm On Aug 25, 2021
scholes0:
Ife civilization is waay older than anything that has ever come out of or connected to Benin in its current or any of its earlier forms.

As a matter of fact- the civilization of Benin traces directly back to Ife- which was the oldest nexus of civilization in all of tropical west and central Africa. Examples of these flows are in religion, linguistics, arts and artefacts, and the royalty… Including oral and the earliest written/recorded historical records.

Written? Please i've looked everywhere for written records from any kingdom in west africa that wasn't influenced by islam or wasn't created in the 1800s please bring any pictures or videos or info you have on these thank you
Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by Abohboy: 12:59pm On Aug 25, 2021
mr1759:
In 1938 Yoruba as a nation unearthed 16 pieces of bronze art work from someone’s compound.

Question, after that dramatic archeological exploration in 1938 ,how many of such similar discoveries have be made ever since in Yoruba land in Egypt archaeologists discover things every day why will Yoruba own be once how do they even know where it was,

Have you people ask your self where those bronze came from,
Yoruba claim to the one who taught Benin bronze making yet is only 16 Pieces of bronze you people could produce since 9th centuries that is over 1000 years, you people use 1000 years to produce 16 pieces of bronze

In European museums alone Benin art that are there is more than 10,000 pieces, then some are America not to talk of the one in Benin the hub of art work yet Yoruba have 16 pieces and is claiming to have taught Benin

The fact that you think that the Benin Bronzes were made in the 1800s shows your stupidity date of discovery is not the same as date of creation.

And on top of that stupidity you go onto say that there are only 16 pieces of Yoruba bronzes not Ife bronzes but yoruba bronzes which is a blatant lie even if we only concentrate on Ife there are at least more then 30 Ife Bronzes

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 1:24pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:
The fact that you think that the Benin Bronzes were made in the 1800s shows your stupidity date of discovery is not the same as date of creation.

And on top of that stupidity you go onto say that there are only 16 pieces of Yoruba bronzes not Ife bronzes but yoruba bronzes which is a blatant lie even if we only concentrate on Ife there are at least more then 30 Ife Bronzes
For context on the relative volume of productions at Ife and at Benin in present-times:

The Ife empire reached its end in the 1400s. As such, all its fluorescence (e.g. bronze production, etc.) also experienced decline from that century all the way to the present time — a continuous decline of about 600 years

The Benin ‘empire’ was about to begin (as an empire) in that period, and so was its bronze production also just beginning in that period. Benin ‘empire’ reached its end at the turn of the 1800s.

As expected, its bronze art production must also have been in decline (compared to its prime years) since 1897 till date; a continues decline of about 100 years.

On one hand, we see a steady decline of 600 years till date for the Ife productions. On the other hand, we see a steady decline of 100 years till date for the Benin productions.

In the light of this background information, it becomes clearer why there are more ongoing productions (and find) in the case of Benin, than ongoing productions (and find) in the case of Ife.

Peace! cheesy

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by TAO12: 1:40pm On Aug 25, 2021
Abohboy:
Written? Please i've looked everywhere for written records from any kingdom in west africa that wasn't influenced by islam or wasn't created in the 1800s please bring any pictures or videos or info you have on these thank you
Apart from Benin Kingdom (where their traditional accounts point to Ife as the source of both the casting tradition and the monarchy); there is another instance of such pointing to Ife (from other places in West Africa) in the passage I cited earlier from Leo Frobenius’ work.

The passage deals with Leo Frobenius’ first travel in West Africa in 1908 before he visited Ife (or “Nigeria”) at all. At these places (in other parts of West Africa), he heard frequent tells about Ife and its greatness.

Frobenius documents his experience (about Ife from some other West-African regions) as follows:

When I came across some experienced explorers in 1908 in the great cities of the Niger on the southern borders of the Sahara,Timbuktu, and Wagadugu, and often discussed the antiquity of the far south-eastern cities, Ilife [Ile-ife] was mentioned as the first of five great places and it was only when in Atakpame in South Togoland, that I identified it with Ife. What I was then told in the North was so strange, indeed, that my resolve to visit the place myself at any cost was greatly strengthened.

Leo Frobenius, “The Voice of Africa,” Vol 1., (1913), p.69.

Peace!
Cc: scholes0

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Re: Benin Own Ife Bronze by scholes0(m): 1:51pm On Aug 25, 2021
^^ Was just about to reply him , then I saw your reply.
Good one.

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