oyatz:


When people say that someone is the father of a Nation( e.g Ataturk = Father of the Turks, Attah Igala= Father of the Igalas), it means the personality played a key role in shaping the nation and it doesn't necessarily mean the individual is the biological father of everyone in the nation.
Examples of such 'Fathers of the nations' are found in all parts of the world from Israel to Mongolia to Rome.



Each ethnic group evolve differently, so it is unnecessary to assume that what is obtainable in one ethnic group must be obtainable in another one.

That's the problem, the "fatherhood" Yoruba ascribe to oduduwa is purely biological which is very impossible. To the extent of claiming that he fell from the sky when he actually came around 10th century and his origin remain unclear

aribisala0:



Who is the "THEY" that were referred to as Akus
Who told you Ijebus reject the "Yoruba" tag?
Okuns do not accept the tag? Did they send you an email to that effect?

When and where did that happen??

I don't want to go into much argument.
The most recent and most active person in this regard is The Awujale of Ijebuland, Oba Sikiru Kayode Adetona, ogbagba II

He said it himself. I remember around 2010 when he granted an interview again reiterating this. He had previously as I heard resounded this statement in 1981 in a Concord newspaper.
I will leave this matter, I no get strength.

Ekealterego:


I don't want to go into much argument.
The most recent and most active person in this regard is The Awujale of Ijebuland, Oba Sikiru Kayode Adetona, ogbagba II

He said it himself. I remember around 2010 when he granted an interview again reiterating this. He had previously as I heard resounded this statement in 1981 in a Concord newspaper.
I will leave this matter, I no get strength.

You quoted me for a reason surely?
I asked you
Who are the "THEY" that were called "AKUS
AS YOU CLAIMED
LOUD SILENCE

I have not seen the word "Yoruba" in any of your offering so where did Ijebu reject " Yoruba" tag

Again I asked you as YOU CLAIMED

Where did Okun people reject Yoruba Tag
LOUD SILENCE

What has Oduduwa got to do with anything
It is not only Ijebus that are not descendants of Oduduwa
Most "Yoruba" are not his children.
YOU Quoted me so if you can read you would have seen where I said Oduduwa lived 1000 years ago.
Those who claim to be Yoruba are not descendants of Oduduwa. who migrated to Ife and met people there speaking the language they still speak and practising the religion they still do



Clearly you are confused


I

Ogbuefi2020:

That's the problem, the "fatherhood" Yoruba ascribe to oduduwa is purely biological which is very impossible. To the extent of claiming that he fell from the sky when he actually came around 10th century and his origin remain unclear

How is that different from the ascription of all Humanity to Adam and Eve or to Noah and his co travellers in the ARK

aribisala0:
How is that different from the ascription of all Humanity to Adam and Eve or to Noah and his co travellers in the ARK

Can the story of Adam pass as "History" from scholarly point of view. Any well lettered person knows it a Jewish fabble.

aribisala0:

You quoted me for a reason surely?
I asked you
Who are the "THEY" that were called "AKUS
AS YOU CLAIMED
LOUD SILENCE

I have not seen the word "Yoruba" in any of your offering so where did Ijebu reject " Yoruba" tag

Again I asked you as YOU CLAIMED

Where did Okun people reject Yoruba Tag
LOUD SILENCE

What has Oduduwa got to do with anything
It is not only Ijebus that are not descendants of Oduduwa
Most "Yoruba" are not his children.
YOU Quoted me so if you can read you would have seen where I said Oduduwa lived 1000 years ago.
Those who claim to be Yoruba are not descendants of Oduduwa. who migrated to Ife and met people there speaking the language they still speak and practising the religion they still do



Clearly you are confused


I

To me, rejection or acceptance is not the point. The point here is that oyo is Yoruba, and other tribes in SW adopted the nomenclature recently

Yoruba historians are just lazy, dishing out over simplistic history with out in-depth research. Until they throw away "oduduwa fell from the sky" and unravel the mystery surrounding his origin I will not take anything about Yoruba history seriously

aribisala0:

You quoted me for a reason surely?
I asked you
Who are the "THEY" that were called "AKUS
AS YOU CLAIMED
LOUD SILENCE

I have not seen the word "Yoruba" in any of your offering so where did Ijebu reject " Yoruba" tag

Again I asked you as YOU CLAIMED

Where did Okun people reject Yoruba Tag
LOUD SILENCE

What has Oduduwa got to do with anything
It is not only Ijebus that are not descendants of Oduduwa
Most "Yoruba" are not his children.
YOU Quoted me so if you can read you would have seen where I said Oduduwa lived 1000 years ago.
Those who claim to be Yoruba are not descendants of Oduduwa. who migrated to Ife and met people there speaking the language they still speak and practising the religion they still do



Clearly you are confused


I

By they, I meant all the Yoruba and Yoruboid groups were called Akus or Okus or Ekus.. because of the way they use their treating.

The Akus as a name includes the Yorubas who are the largest group and the others like the Itshekiris etc.

They were referred to as Akus before the British came and missionaries and then Crowther adopted the Yoruba tag. Even Crowther's family were called Akus in Sierra Leone.

In Sierra Leone and other places outside of Nigeria, they were either refered to as "Akus" or "Lukunmi" or "Olukunmi". This was more like an umbrella name.

In the report Köll did being the first to compile comprehensively those languages in Sierra Leone with specimen, he went to details to now describe the individual group.

However, the Hausa/Fulani name for Oyos, "Yarriba", became the default name because Oyo was regarded as the dominant empire or group at the time.

At first as they recorded, the Egbas and Ijebus who were later towards the end dominant and in charge of the slave raids in "Yorubaland" rejected this tag.

Ogbuefi2020:

This simplistic history calls to question the authenticity of Yoruba claim to be educated. Secondly your map has no igala, and excluded Kano from hausaland there it's null and void

Go and write your own Peoples History and leave Yoruba History alone


Thank you in advance

Ekealterego:


By they, I meant all the Yoruba and Yoruboid groups were called Akus or Okus or Ekus.. because of the way they use their treating.

The Akus as a name includes the Yorubas who are the largest group and the others like the Itshekiris etc.

They were referred to as Akus before the British came and missionaries and then Crowther adopted the Yoruba tag. Even Crowther's family were called Akus in Sierra Leone.

In Sierra Leone and other places outside of Nigeria, they were either refered to as "Akus" or "Lukunmi" or "Olukunmi". This was more like an umbrella name.

In the report Köll did being the first to compile comprehensively those languages in Sierra Leone with specimen, he went to details to now describe the individual group.

However, the Hausa/Fulani name for Oyos, "Yarriba", became the default name because Oyo was regarded as the dominant empire or group at the time.

At first as they recorded, the Egbas and Ijebus who were later towards the end dominant and in charge of the slave raids in "Yorubaland" rejected this tag.

Without defining "Yoruba" you are introducing another term "Yoruboid" whos meaning only you know
Where do you yet this business of "Hausa/Fulani? What is that? When did it start can you give a date?

Who told you that Hausa/Fulani gave Oyo that name Yoruba?
What name did they give Igbos So Hausa/Fulani are in the business of naming peoples


What are "THEY " called in Benin republic

You are making so many baseless and meaningless assumptions

Go and study History from around the world with the attitude of a learner
When you assume you know there is no learning

Much of what you think you know is nonsense really

Ogbuefi2020:

To me, rejection or acceptance is not the point. The point here is that oyo is Yoruba, and other tribes in SW adopted the nomenclature recently

JJ Okocha had an older brother that was called JJ somehow that name transferred to Austin SO WHAT?
OYO was called EMPIRE for a good reason because it was a different nation from Ekiti Ijebu , Ondo Egba and so on
THEY WERE DIFFERENT NATIONS
Yet they had more similarity than with Egun or Fon e.g
They spoke different dialects of the same language but were different nations.
Being lumped together in Nigeria has meant greater cooperation and with the emergence of literacy a single dominant dialect and alohabet
If you look in Europe you will find Germanic peoples scattered in many countries . They have never been in one nation. This is true of the Arab speaking countries. Outsiders might call some Arabs but will be surprised at the response


That phenomena of name adoption is ubiquitous you have not said anything we do not know..
We have adopted NIGERIA , AFRICA because they have currency today. That may change tomorrow
In my lifetime Benin republic was called Dahomey So what
The Key point is that people HAVE A CHOICE to be called or identified as THEY CHOOSE





When did Oyo adopt the term "Yoruba"

aribisala0:

Without defining "Yoruba" you are introducing another term "Yoruboid" whos meaning only you know
Where do you yet this business of "Hausa/Fulani? What is that? When did it start can you give a date?

Who told you that Hausa/Fulani gave Oyo that name Yoruba?
What name did they give Igbos So Hausa/Fulani are in the business of naming peoples

Let us that from today.

What are "THEY " called in Benin republic

You are making so many baseless and meaningless assumptions

Go and study History from around the world with the attitude of a learner
When you assume you know there is no learning

Much of what you think you know is nonsense really

I am not making assumptions. First read notes I attached to the very first time I quoted you on this thread.

I don't have time to go into the details and defining times and dates..

The summary of my discussion is this.

All the people we refer to as Yorubas today, were not called Yorubas 200 years ago. The name Yoruba only refer to a subgroup of the "Aku" or "Eku" people.

Non-Akus call all Yorubas, ijebus, Egbas etc Akus.

Fulani/Pula/Pullo people and Hausa called Oyo people specifically, "Yarribas".

During the slave trade people from what we now know as "Yorubaland" were called Akus because Yoruba was not the national name.

Do you know that "Yoruba" people in Sierra Leone and Gambia till today are still known as "Akus"? Go and read up.

The British and missionary adopted "Yoruba" as the national name for Akus, except Itshekiri and some "Yoruba speaking" people in the North Central who were later treated as a separate but still allied group of the Yorubas in Nigeria.

To find more information, read Beale Horton Africanus, "kingdom of the Yorubas" written in 1867.

or you can read "Sierra Leone and it's people"

The Akus in Gambia and Sierra Leone (mostly "Yoruba" slaves and their progenies) have lost their "Aku" language, they now speak Krio... Many of them now go by the name, "Krio" or "Creole".

I know you are apprehensive because you think I am trying to cause "division".

Omo olauabi ko'n se be o.

Ekealterego:

I am not making assumptions. First read notes I attached to the very first time I quoted you on this thread.

I don't have time to go into the details and defining times and dates..

The summary of my discussion is this.

All the people we refer to as Yorubas today, were not called Yorubas 200 years ago. The name Yoruba only refer to a subgroup of the "Aku" or "Eku" people.

Non-Akus call all Yorubas, ijebus, Egbas etc Akus.

Fulani/Pula/Pullo people and Hausa called Oyo people specifically, "Yarribas".

During the slave trade people from what we now know as "Yorubaland" were called Akus because Yoruba was not the national name.

Do you know that "Yoruba" people in Sierra Leone and Gambia till today are still known as "Akus"? Go and read up.

The British and missionary adopted "Yoruba" as the national name for Akus, except Itshekiri and some "Yoruba speaking" people in the North Central who were later treated as a separate but still allied group of the Yorubas in Nigeria.

To find more information, read Beale Horton Africanus, "kingdom of the Yorubas" written in 1867.

or you can read "Sierra Leone and it's people"

The Akus in Gambia and Sierra Leone (mostly "Yoruba" slaves and their progenies) have lost their "Aku" language, they now speak Krio... Many of them now go by the name, "Krio" or "Creole".

I know you are apprehensive because you think I am trying to cause "division".

Omo olauabi ko'n se be o.

What is the basis for your claim on Akus ?
There was never a time that everyone was called AKU that is mischievous rubbish
All the people called Yoruba today were not alive 200 years ago

What their ancestors were called is a different matter which depends on who was doing the calling .
There was no universal name . That stuff of Aku is nonsense . Some called them Olukumi or lucumi, others called them Anago


There was never a time that they was called Aku by everyone.
Different groups called them different things , Even today one of the earlier terms "anago" is used in Benin Republic

Your claim about Yarriba is from Hausa is based on WHAT EXACTLY ,
All groups are called different things by others whether it be Omo nna, Nyamiri , Pula, Fula,

The term is EXONYM for a name given by others

and they have
AUTONYMS

which are self given

Guy please stop regurgitating the confused rubbish that you read online

aribisala0:



What is the basis for your claim on Akus ?
There was never a time that everyone was called AKU that is mischievous rubbish
All the people called Yoruba today were not alive 200 years ago

What their ancestors were called is a different matter which depends on who was doing the calling .
There was no universal name . That stuff of Aku is nonsense . Some called them Olukumi or lucumi, others called them Anago


There was never a time that they was called Aku by everyone.
Different groups called them different things , Even today one of the earlier terms "anago" is used in Benin Republic

Your claim about Yarriba is from Hausa is based on WHAT EXACTLY ,
All groups are called different things by others whether it be Omo nna, Nyamiri , Pula, Fula,

The term is EXONYM for a name given by others

and they have
AUTONYMS

which are self given

Guy please stop regurgitating the confused rubbish that you read online

You are obviously heady and stubborn to facts? So, all the books I mentioned were figment of my imagination?

References I made to early 1800s are books I manufactured from my head?

The first complication of African languages around 1840s by Köll. The compilation of Yoruba language was written as "Aku" and not Yoruba.
I mentioned earlier that Olukunmi or Lukunmi was also used didn't I?

Read about these people.
Oku people
Aku Marabout
Aku Mohammedans

They are all in Sierra Leone and Gambia.

All Yoruba slaves were recorded as Akus or Ekus or Oku because that was the way they all greeted each other.

Eku aro and Oku ise etc.

[s]

Ekealterego:

You are obviously heady and stubborn to facts? So, all the books I mentioned were figment of my imagination?

References I made to early 1800s are books I manufactured from my head?

The first complication of African languages around 1840s by Köll. The compilation of Yoruba language was written as "Aku" and not Yoruba.
I mentioned earlier that Olukunmi or Lukunmi was also used didn't I?

Read about these people.
Oku people
Aku Marabout
Aku Mohammedans

They are all in Sierra Leone and Gambia.

All Yoruba slaves were recorded as Akus or Ekus or Oku because that was the way they all greeted each other.

Eku aro and Oku ise etc.

[/s]

Rubbish

aribisala0:
[s][/s]

Rubbish

ok. have a nice day

Ogbuefi2020:

That's the problem, the "fatherhood" Yoruba ascribe to oduduwa is purely biological which is very impossible. To the extent of claiming that he fell from the sky when he actually came around 10th century and his origin remain unclear

Oduduwa was the founder of the most extensive and enduring dynasties in Yorubaland and only members of certain royal families are actually his descendants.

In Yorubaland, the king is the 'father' of the kingdom but this doesn't mean he is the biological father of the town.



As per falling from the sky, you ought to know the difference between myths and histories.


In the olden days, people attribute 'heavenly' attribute to themselves to prove that they were superior to others.


Examples of such progenitors with descents from Heaven/sky can also be found in Igbo mythology (Eri was said to have descended from the sky) and Bini mythology (The Ogisos were said to have descended from the sky. Ogiso= Ogie +Is= King + sky)

Ogbuefi2020:

That's the problem, the "fatherhood" Yoruba ascribe to oduduwa is purely biological which is very impossible. To the extent of claiming that he fell from the sky when he actually came around 10th century and his origin remain unclear

But the divinity ascribed to Jesus is possible, You guys believe Holy Spirit Begat Jesus through Mary but feign ignorance when it’s about us

With your analogy that means bible account of God’s creation is fake