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Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months - Politics (2) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months (3421 Views)

FG To Save ₦‎8 Trilion Annually From Subsidy Removal, FX Reform - Taiwo Oyedele / Petrol Landing Cost Now ₦232, Subsidy Rises To ₦5.58 Billion Daily / Oil Price: FG Revenue Shrinks As Petrol Subsidy Rises (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Nobody: 12:18pm On Dec 23, 2021
fxkay1:
Here is a simple question??
Why are we importing Petrol .

Because over the years we were selling petrol at a loss,meaning NNPc was not making enough to keep the refineries working well.

The subsidy was the amount paid to cover that loss, and even then it wasn't enough to cover the loss because of unstable oil revenue and corruption.

That's why by 2011,we were importing most fuel

If you want fuel, you have to do like Niger Republic , one of our suppliers, does. Sell fuel at a profit so that you have enough money to pay for refinery upgrades, upkeep and expansion and even more new refineries and staff welfare and so on.

Not make fuel at 260 naira a liter and sell at 163 naira a liter and then pay a subsidy that does nothing to cover the resulting loss. And that 260 naira a liter is rising..and is even that cheap because we refine fuel in substandard refineries abroad.
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Kaladosmt: 12:28pm On Dec 23, 2021
TheGoodJoe:
Spent years and billions of naira looking for Crude Oil in the North, instead of sponsoring multinationals to set up modular refineries and gas plants.
. And what have you contributed.
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Kaladosmt: 12:29pm On Dec 23, 2021
TheGoodJoe:
Spent years and billions of naira looking for Crude Oil in the North, instead of sponsoring multinationals to set up modular refineries and gas plants.
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Nobody: 12:34pm On Dec 23, 2021
TheGoodJoe:
Spent years and billions of naira looking for Crude Oil in the North, instead of sponsoring multinationals to set up modular refineries and gas plants.

No matter how much you sponsor multinationals to set up modular refineries and gas plants...it is all useless if you do not allow them to sell at the price they want, and thus at a profit, but sell at a loss, so that people can have cheap fuel

And then you pay them a subsidy which has two problems

1. It is always never enough because oil prices, from where the revenue that funds the subsides comes from , is always unstable

2. Cost of production is rising because of rising things like workers salaries, maintenance costs, etc....and the falling value of the naira...due to waste of forex on imports

Both of which means losses in money and income

Meaning that the same refineries won't earn enough money for upgrades, maintenance, and so forth, and eventually break down, and we are back to square one.
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Havertz10: 1:20pm On Dec 23, 2021
You need oil money to pay salaries in Kaduna cheesy

A state that can't fend for itself isn't a state
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Exceed15: 1:20pm On Dec 23, 2021
Buhari called subsidy a scam. A definition of who he is.

1 Like

Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Nobody: 1:24pm On Dec 23, 2021
Havertz10:
You need oil money to pay salaries in Kaduna cheesy

A state that can't fend for itself isn't a state

Same for all the other Northern states, and most of the Southern states that don't produce oil.

And oil itself is a poor source of revenue...today it is 20 dollars, tomorrow it is 80 dollars, next it is 50 dollars and so forth...

Kaduna state, and your state would earn more revenue by 1) taxing their share of the 70% of taxable Nigerians who don't pay taxes 2) over-developing into industrial states.
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by enny09: 1:25pm On Dec 23, 2021
Let's the petrol subsidy hit N100trillion, my own is they should not remove any subsidy, if only they have built a standard refinery for the country do we need to import what we have in abundant.

1 Like

Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by TheGoodJoe(m): 1:49pm On Dec 23, 2021
backbencher:


No matter how much you sponsor multinationals to set up modular refineries and gas plants...it is all useless if you do not allow them to sell at the price they want, and thus at a profit, but sell at a loss, so that people can have cheap fuel

And then you pay them a subsidy which has two problems

1. It is always never enough because oil prices, from where the revenue that funds the subsides comes from , is always unstable

2. Cost of production is rising because of rising things like workers salaries, maintenance costs, etc....and the falling value of the naira...due to waste of forex on imports

Both of which means losses in money and income

Meaning that the same refineries won't earn enough money for upgrades, maintenance, and so forth, and eventually break down, and we are back to square one.

There is no way we will pay the exhorbitant Subsidy fees if it is refined locally. It is impossible. Even if it is deregulated, we will spend far less. Better than throwing billions searching for invisible crude oil with no benefit.

1 Like

Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by TheGoodJoe(m): 1:50pm On Dec 23, 2021
Kaladosmt:
. And what have you contributed.

I am not the one sitting on the allocations from crude and borrowing billions of dollars to make dumb decisions like looking for invisible crude in the North. Then shouting remove subsidy

1 Like

Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by shedy03(m): 1:59pm On Dec 23, 2021
TheGoodJoe:
Spent years and billions of naira looking for Crude Oil in the North, instead of sponsoring multinationals to set up modular refineries and gas plants.
APC leadership no get foresight.

1 Like

Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Nobody: 1:59pm On Dec 23, 2021
TheGoodJoe:


There is no way we will pay the exhorbitant Subsidy fees if it is refined locally. It is impossible. Even if it is deregulated, we will spend far less. Better than throwing billions searching for invisible crude oil with no benefit.

WHICH Is why the subsidy has to go, to encourage investment in local refining.

Because under the old subsidy regime, where NNPC was forced to sell fuel from its refineries at a loss, and government stopped giving them money for maintenance to save on subsidy costs, leading to refinery breakdowns...we eventually ended up with bad refineries.

Remove subsidy,and profits made by domestic refining plus savings in forex plus more investment , local and domestic, in refining fuel, would lead to naira appreciating, and lower prices.

At the end of the day, the harsh truth is that we have to let domestic refiners make a profit/be profitable while wasting no money on subsidies of any kind.
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Wchris(m): 2:23pm On Dec 23, 2021
This country is a big scam.
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by OgaHector: 3:45pm On Dec 23, 2021
Mokason288:

ODE

I know your parents are still feeding you

Have it in mind not everyone is been spoon feed like you
Ezi .. Its better they remove it let everybody feel it well..
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Mokason288(m): 3:48pm On Dec 23, 2021
OgaHector:
Ezi .. Its better they remove it let everybody feel it well..
Ewu Hausa

How old are you?
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by maxzzo1(m): 3:52pm On Dec 23, 2021
Buhari and APC are fraudsters
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by TheGoodJoe(m): 4:23pm On Dec 23, 2021
backbencher:


WHICH Is why the subsidy has to go, to encourage investment in local refining.

Because under the old subsidy regime, where NNPC was forced to sell fuel from its refineries at a loss, and government stopped giving them money for maintenance to save on subsidy costs, leading to refinery breakdowns...we eventually ended up with bad refineries.

Remove subsidy,and profits made by domestic refining plus savings in forex plus more investment , local and domestic, in refining fuel, would lead to naira appreciating, and lower prices.

At the end of the day, the harsh truth is that we have to let domestic refiners make a profit/be profitable while wasting no money on subsidies of any kind.

Who said domestic refiners won't make profit. I said it would cost far less than paying subsidies to import petroleum products.

Removing subsidies while importing is suicidal. It would have been better to channel funds into refining locally through the expertise of multinationals.

That is the simple point.

1 Like

Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by TheGoodJoe(m): 4:27pm On Dec 23, 2021
backbencher:


WHICH Is why the subsidy has to go, to encourage investment in local refining.

Because under the old subsidy regime, where NNPC was forced to sell fuel from its refineries at a loss, and government stopped giving them money for maintenance to save on subsidy costs, leading to refinery breakdowns...we eventually ended up with bad refineries.

Remove subsidy,and profits made by domestic refining plus savings in forex plus more investment , local and domestic, in refining fuel, would lead to naira appreciating, and lower prices.

At the end of the day, the harsh truth is that we have to let domestic refiners make a profit/be profitable while wasting no money on subsidies of any kind.

Why pump money into looking for invisible crude instead of preparing for removing subsidy by boosting local refining through modular refineries.

After 7 years of pure wastage, they are shouting subsidy must go.

Is subsidy the problem but repeated failure to boost local refining?

1 Like

Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Nobody: 4:38pm On Dec 23, 2021
TheGoodJoe:


Who said domestic refiners won't make profit. I said it would cost far less than paying subsidies to import petroleum products.

Removing subsidies while importing is suicidal. It would have been better to channel funds into refining locally through the expertise of multinationals.

That is the simple point.


Paying for subsidy from an oil income that is never stable due to fluctuating oil prices is also suicidal...especially as subsidy costs increase due to increasing costs of production.

As an example, landing cost of fuel in 2011 was N99 while we paid N65 for fuel. Some months ago, the same landing cost was N260 while we paid somewhere around N162 at the pump. Subsidy is what's paid for the difference...meanwhile oil prices have gone down from above $100 per barrel in 2011 to $73 today, and it was below $40 at least twice in the last 10 years, including at $20-30 for prolonged periods last year.

Ad from that oil money comes subsidy money, as well as debt service money...made possible by the fact that Nigeria has been having oil prices below its fiscal breakeven oil price ($122 In 2012, $139 in 2017 AND $133 in 2020)

That by the way is a big reason why we have debt. As the cost of production rises, so does the subsidy. And right now, subsidy is eating into our 'regular' money for salaries, projects, etc. And it is set to eat more...whether we like it or not...next year


Meanwhile NNPC has been issuing licenses for refineries...and at least 5 of them are on the ground or at construction, and that excludes Dangote. 20 are waiting in the wings. NNPC Is fixing up two refineries (this time we hope they are telling the truth). NO subsides, more incentive for Dangote and company to ramp up doemstic refining.

But meanwhile, we are running out of money feeding this subsidy monster. SO, either it goes, or we could be in a point next year where salaries won't be paid because...fuel has to cost less than N200 or something.

(And as I type this, I have to say I hate the whole idea. IN truth I AGREE WE CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT REMOVE SUBSIDY NOW.. But the thing is, if we had taken the pill 10 years ago, even back in 1993, you and i won't have been having this discussion now. BY now, we would have been exporting refined products...like NIger which sells fuel at N370 per liter, and makes enough profit to keep its single refinery working...meaning they can export fuel to 3 other countries including us. And if we keep the subsidy now...the cost is projected to rise up to 3 trillion if not more next year. Even if oil prices rise, it won't help much...we have to pay off our debts, and pay higher subsidy costs, meaning nothing for the masses that are supposed to be helped by subsides.We are truly in a situation where it is out of our hands, and has been since yesterday)
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Nobody: 4:43pm On Dec 23, 2021
TheGoodJoe:


Why pump money into looking for invisible crude instead of preparing for removing subsidy by boosting local refining through modular refineries.

After 7 years of pure wastage, they are shouting subsidy must go.

Is subsidy the problem but repeated failure to boost local refining?

1.Oil companies are always look for fresh sources of oil. While I don't agree with the search for oil in the NORTH (NNPC Has been told several times since the 90's that it is a quixotic errand,oil discoveries in Chad notwithstanding ), there is a method to the madness.

2.Subsidy is a waste for many reasons (explained in my previous post to you) and government has been saying it should go since 1993...even earlier.(see this recent article for a full story of the subsidy issue)

The whole story precedes oil searching in the North by years...
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by TheGoodJoe(m): 5:07pm On Dec 23, 2021
backbencher:


1.Oil companies are always look for fresh sources of oil. While I don't agree with the search for oil in the NORTH (NNPC Has been told several times since the 90's that it is a quixotic errand,oil discoveries in Chad notwithstanding ), there is a method to the madness.

2.Subsidy is a waste for many reasons (explained in my previous post to you) and government has been saying it should go since 1993...even earlier.(see this recent article for a full story of the subsidy issue)

The whole story precedes oil searching in the North by years...


If they want subsidy to go, provide support for multinationals to refine crude through modular refineries.

That is the only way to buffer the effect of deregulating petrol.

My critique is this Government now screaming subsidy removal after wasting billions that would have helped solve the situation.

1 Like

Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by LordviccoDaGuru(m): 5:12pm On Dec 23, 2021
[s]
FarahAideed:
Trust me Buhari is a thief!!!!!!
[/s]
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Ttjj: 10:19pm On Dec 23, 2021
Really
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Depsui(m): 9:24am On Dec 25, 2021
backbencher:


1.Oil companies are always look for fresh sources of oil. While I don't agree with the search for oil in the NORTH (NNPC Has been told several times since the 90's that it is a quixotic errand,oil discoveries in Chad notwithstanding ), there is a method to the madness.

2.Subsidy is a waste for many reasons (explained in my previous post to you) and government has been saying it should go since 1993...even earlier.(see this recent article for a full story of the subsidy issue)

The whole story precedes oil searching in the North by years...

When subsidy goes, how much do you think the price of fuel would be?

Everybody knows that subsidy is not good, but the people profiting from it are the same people against building of refineries.

Do you think Nigeria as a country cannot build adequate refineries. Is Dangote richer than nigeria.
Its all politics.
Re: Petrol Subsidy Rises, Hits ₦1.16 Trilion In 11 Months by Nobody: 9:45am On Dec 25, 2021
Depsui:


When subsidy goes, how much do you think the price of fuel would be?

Between 300-400 naira most likely. If not higher. (especially as government may not give free dollars to importers)

Everybody knows that subsidy is not good, but the people profiting from it are the same people against building of refineries.

They are, but the thing is, NIgeria does not have enough money for them anymore to loot...so they better go and find their square root.

Do you think Nigeria as a country cannot build adequate refineries. Is Dangote richer than nigeria.
Its all politics.

NIgeria can, and has built refineries.

But you cannot refine fuel at a cost of over 200 naira a liter and sell at N162 or even Buhari's N40 and make enough of a profit to pay for maintenance, expansion, staff salaries, transport, and other overheads. Especially since the cost of production rises at a faster rate than the subsidy you would pay to cover the resulting loss.

That's how we damaged and lost our 4 government owned refineries, and why very few people, apart from Dangote , are getting into refinery building. And Dangote used loans mostly to build his refinereis, and if it does not make back a profit, the banks who gave him the loans will take over his other lucrative businesses to pay themselves back. THat's why they gave him the loans for his refinereis, they knew they can get their money back from him, anyhow.

Venezuela subsidsies fuel, to the point that they sell it at N40 per liter (equivalent) Their nice refinery which refined 900000 barrels of fuel a day now refines 100000 barrels of fuel a day thanks to the massive losses resulting from subsidising fuel, and they lose 18 billion dollars annually to smuggling of fuel out of the country.

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