What does Atonement mean to you?

The English word 'atonement' originally meant "at-one-ment", i.e. being "at one", in harmony, with someone.[4] It is used to describe the saving work that God did through Christ to reconcile the world to himself, and also of the state of a person having been reconciled to God.[2][5]

Atonement is a doctrine that describes how human beings can be reconciled to God.[1] In Christian theology the atonement refers to the forgiving or pardoning of sin through the death of Jesus Christ by crucifixion,[2] which made possible the reconciliation between God and creation. Within Christianity there are, historically, four main theories for how such atonement might work:[3] the ransom theory/Christus Victor, the satisfaction theory, the penal substitution theory and the moral influence theory.

What is your understanding of the mechanism of how atonement works? This is crucial to determining how we go about trying to achieve atonement. There are 4 theories about this in theological history. And in fact the latest developed one is the Penal Substitution theory that is most popular amongst protestants. This says that God must exact revenge for Man's sin and so Christ was substituted for us so God could wreak his vengeance on him.
This is the theory most familiar to protestant christians. It is actually the latest to be developed.

The four most well known theories are briefly described below:

The earliest explanation for how the atonement works is nowadays often called the moral influence theory. In this view the core of Christianity is positive moral change, and the purpose of everything Jesus did was to lead humans toward that moral change. He is understood to have accomplished this variously through his teachings, example, founding of the Church, and the inspiring power of his martyrdom and resurrection. This view was universally taught by the Church Fathers in the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD.[7][8][9] It also enjoyed popularity during the Middle Ages and is most often associated in that period with Pierre Abélard. Since the Reformation it has been advocated by many theologians Immanuel Kant, Hastings Rashdall and Paul Tillich. It remains the most popular view of atonement among liberal Christians. It also forms the basis for Rene Girard’s "mimetic desire" theory (not to be confused with meme theory).

Chronologically, the second explanation, first clearly enunciated by Irenaeus,[10] is the "ransom" or "Christus Victor" theory. "Christus victor" and "ransom" are slightly different from each other: in the ransom metaphor Jesus liberates mankind from slavery to Satan and thus death by giving his own life as a ransom. Victory over Satan consists of swapping the life of the perfect (Jesus), for the lives of the imperfect (mankind). The "Christus Victor" theory sees Jesus not used as a ransom but rather defeating Satan in a spiritual battle and thus freeing enslaved mankind by defeating the captor. This theory 'continued for a thousand years to influence Christian theology, till it was finally shifted and discarded by Anselm'.[11]

The third metaphor, used by the 11th century theologian Anselm, is called the "satisfaction" theory. In this picture mankind owes a debt not to Satan, but to sovereign God himself. A sovereign may well be able to forgive an insult or an injury in his private capacity, but because he is a sovereign he cannot if the state has been dishonoured. Anselm argued that the insult given to God is so great that only a perfect sacrifice could satisfy and Jesus, being both God and man, was this perfect sacrifice.

The next explanation, which was a development by the Reformers[12][13][14][15] of Anselm's satisfaction theory,[16] is the commonly held Protestant "penal substitution theory," which, instead of considering sin as an affront to God’s honour, sees sin as the breaking of God’s moral law. Placing a particular emphasis on Romans 6:23 (the wages of sin is death), penal substitution sees sinful man as being subject to God’s wrath with the essence of Jesus' saving work being his substitution in the sinner's place, bearing the curse in the place of man (Galatians 3:13).[17] A variation that also falls within this metaphor is Hugo Grotius’ "governmental theory", which sees Jesus receiving a punishment as a public example of the lengths to which God will go to uphold the moral order.

To summarise: The first is the Moral Influence. That says the life and death of Jesus inspires us to be better people morally and this is what reconciles us to God.

The Second says that Jesus died as a Ransom paid to Satan to release us. This is called the Ransom Theory. Closely related is the Christus Victor which says rather than just a Ransom Jesus actually decked Satan in hell and forced our release. A combination of the two is something like, Jesus was presented to Satan like a Trojan horse. He seemed weak and vanquished, but it wasn't until he got to hell that he got up and threw off the vanquished disguise and started decking all the demons left right and center, thereby securing our release.

The Third says: rather than the ransom being paid to Satan it was actually paid to God who demanded satisfaction for Man's naughty behaviour. This is called the Satisfaction Theory.

The fourth is the Penal Substitution theory: Sin brings death, by divine law, however it doesn't have to be the death of the sinner but the death of a substitute, ie Jesus, would do.

Also closely linked to this thread is Frosbel's thread on 'Calvinist Mumbo Jumbo'.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-693487.0.html

Calvinism goes on a lot about atonement and what the implications are.

[Quote]

Also closely linked to this thread is Frosbel's thread on 'Calvinist Mumbo Jumbo'.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-693487.0.html

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More like, 'Frosbel's Mumbo Jumbos'

PSA, the Steve Chalke connection etc ref https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-691430.32.html#msg8562849

http://www.eauk.org/theology/key_papers/Atonement/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=1558

http://www.eauk.org/theology/key_papers/Atonement/

Thanks Enigma

pastor, stop being eegun eja in the 'throat' of the chrstians. as much i may not agree with them, they are many levels better than your ifa oracle worship.

Sweetnecta, do you actually believe what you just said to Pastor AIO? What makes you think the christian religion is better than the Ifa traditional belief?

Another useful link: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_atone5.htm

First posted some time ago here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-429416.96.html#msg5908845

And one more crucial link for the collection especially re understandingS of PSA, Steve Chalke, the "emerging church",  etc

http://www.fulcrum-anglican.org.uk/news/2007/20070423wright.cfm?doc=205

Christ shed HIS BLOOD ONLY FOR THE ELECT. So if u aint elect, grab your sleeping bags & get ready for hell fire!

"He will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins".

Obalende:

Christ shed HIS BLOOD ONLY FOR THE ELECT. So if u aint elect, grab your sleeping bags & get ready for hell fire!

"He will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins".

Why sleeping bags?

Obalende:

Christ shed HIS BLOOD ONLY FOR THE ELECT. So if u aint elect, grab your sleeping bags & get ready for hell fire!

"He will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins".

He will save His People from their sins. WHO are those that are not His people? Any ideas, Obalende?

InesQor,
I must thank you for believing d scripture as it is when presented without defensive argument. It shows u r open to good discourse. Here is my theory which is well backed up by the Bible.

Turn to the parable of the sower, there are 4 camps, only 1 camp that fell o the good ground made it and will make it eventually to heaven. these are Gods chosen pl who will be told:

"Come & inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

The people who are no Gods ppl are the reprobates he majority, who on the judgement day will be told:

"Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire"

This is who God said to some ppl that they do not understand because they are not his sheep.

God chose to glorify himself by the "just" condemnation of the wicked & glorification of the elect.

Pastor AIO:

Why sleeping bags?

I wonder.

InesQor:

He will save His People from their sins. WHO are those that are not His people? Any ideas, Obalende?

He was quoting The Bible. You might as well ask the The Bible. But to answer your question, they are those who end up unsaved-the non-elects.

Obalende:

Christ shed HIS BLOOD ONLY FOR THE ELECT. So if u aint elect, grab your sleeping bags & get ready for hell fire!

"He will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins".

Heretic !!

"What we do see is Jesus, who was given a position "a little lower than the angels"; and because he suffered death for us, he is now "crowned with glory and honor." Yes, by God's grace, Jesus tasted death for everyone" - Hebrews 2:9

"For God so loved the world ( not the elect ) [/b]that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16

""For I have [b]no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD. "Therefore, repent and live."- Ezekiel 18:32

ELECT are those who are SAVED, they sought for GOD and found him, or they responded to his CALL.

To say that the blood of Jesus is only for an elect Few is bordering on demonic madness.

EVERYONE can COME to JESUS and be SAVED !!

Obalende:

InesQor,
I must thank you for believing d scripture as it is when presented without defensive argument. It shows u r open to good discourse. Here is my theory which is well backed up by the Bible.

Turn to the parable of the sower, there are 4 camps, only 1 camp that fell o the good ground made it and will make it eventually to heaven. these are Gods chosen pl who will be told:

"Come & inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

The people who are no Gods ppl are the reprobates he majority, who on the judgement day will be told:

"Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire"

This is who God said to some ppl that they do not understand because they are not his sheep.

God chose to glorify himself by the "just" condemnation of the wicked & glorification of the elect.

The elect are ALL those who responded to the call of GOD on their lives.

Many Christians will be shocked on the last day, saying Lord , but Lord, did we not heal in your name etc. He rejected them because THEY WERE WORKERS OF INIQUITY.

"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'" - Luke 13:27

Any worker of iniquity may deceive himself that he is an elect and it matters no how he lives and conducts his life on earth, but the bible clearly states the end of such people is the fire.

"and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matt 24;51

"Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit." - Galatians 6:8

frosbel:



EVERYONE can COME to JESUS and be SAVED !!

This surely is an offshoot of Pelagianism.

5solas:

He was quoting The Bible. You might as well ask the The Bible. But to answer your question, they are those who end up unsaved-the non-elects.

Thanks 5solas, but I know why I asked him. Thanks again.

@Obalende:

Thanks for sharing yours, but sorry, here is my own conviction:

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

They COME to Jesus because the Father draws them. When they "hear" the Father - they seek him out, from whatever crevice in life they crawl out from - they are drawn to the Light Set Upon The Hill. They come.

Those are the ones that are His.

The elect ones are the ones that God has chosen, as well as they have chosen God, like a marriage. It's a two-way thing.

Once you STOP choosing God, you are not chosen by Him too. And you are no longer one of the Elect.

Otherwise, [b]why [/b]are you the elect if you have stopped panting after God, if your heart no longer beats for Him? Why would one be non-elect when he lives for God?

I pray we be not led astray by all the pedagogy and "learned words". Just go back to the scriptures, therein the truth being sought resides.

It will do us Good to also remember The Great Reversal as told by Jesus Christ our Lord.

1-2 "God's kingdom is like an estate manager who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. They agreed on a wage of a dollar a day, and went to work.

3-5"Later, about nine o'clock, the manager saw some other men hanging around the town square unemployed. He told them to go to work in his vineyard and he would pay them a fair wage. They went.

5-6"He did the same thing at noon, and again at three o'clock. At five o'clock he went back and found still others standing around. He said, 'Why are you standing around all day doing nothing?'

7"They said, 'Because no one hired us.' "He told them to go to work in his vineyard.

8"When the day's work was over, the owner of the vineyard instructed his foreman, 'Call the workers in and pay them their wages. Start with the last hired and go on to the first.'

9-12"Those hired at five o'clock came up and were each given a dollar. [size=15pt]When those who were hired first saw that, they assumed they would get far more.[/size] But they got the same, each of them one dollar. Taking the dollar, they groused angrily to the manager, 'These last workers put in only one easy hour, and you just made them equal to us, who slaved all day under a scorching sun.'

13-15"He replied to the one speaking for the rest, 'Friend, I haven't been unfair. We agreed on the wage of a dollar, didn't we? So take it and go. I decided to give to the one who came last the same as you. Can't I do what I want with my own money? Are you going to get stingy because I am generous?'

16"Here it is again, the Great Reversal: many of the first ending up last, and the last first."

So much for the predestined elect. Please take note of the emphases.

frosbel:

The elect are ALL those who responded to the call of GOD on their lives.

GBAM! That is all.

As seen in the Great Reversal, all who [i]responded [/i]to His call got their reward.

Shut Up Verse

One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: "Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city." So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God. (Acts 18:9-11)
Here God did not tell Paul to stay and preach so that all may believe, HE told Paul to preach because HE had much people inthe city. This tallies with "He will save His people from their sins". Any serious bible scholar will agree the concord between the two verses unless u just want to convonce urself otherwise so as not to feel bad or because u r unsure if u r in d camp.

The problem is that most of you cannot believe the harshness of your own Bible. Let me lay the argument once to save time:

1. God foreknew the fall of man in the garden of eden.
2. From that fall God predetermined those He will regenerate.
3. From those regenerated and saved only those who really live righteous lives (not of themselves), will eventually go to heaven so that means many christians will be in hell. Most of you are arguing against this truth because you fear u might be in it.
4. It is Gods design that only few will be saved so that He will glorify himself by the condemnation of the wicked and the glorification of the elect.
5. Here is what God said - I will take the time to give you all the verses:
i.) please refer to parable of the sower - God makes it clear it is only one camp that makes it, for those who call my theory demonic, please note that you blaspheme the Holy Spirit who by His own mouth said that few there be that will find the narrow way.
ii.) Read ephesians 1 where it was clearly spelled out that God chose his ppl before they were born.
iii.) The Bible says that He will save His people from their sins.
iv.) Those who try to use John 3:6 forget that "whosoever" does not mean all.
v.) JAcob I have loved, Esau I hated BEFORE THEY HAD DONE GOOD OR BAD
vi.) "He had NOT ORDAINED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our lord jesus christ", this spells it out, SOME WHERE ORDAINED TO WRATH.

‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Who will be taught by God? Everyone WHO HAS HEARD does not mean everyone will hear. Lets make sound arguments and not waste time.

v.) God said: "AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED"
VI.)

Reversal

Those quoting the reversal scriptures - I dont know what you are trying to achieve with it, there is no clear indication that the passage os talking about election.

Many Christians will be shocked on the last day, saying Lord , but Lord, did we not heal in your name etc. He rejected them because THEY WERE WORKERS OF INIQUITY.

That still is divine design. The Bible says:

"Even so in this present time there has been a chosen remnant according to the election of grace"

It is Gods design that only a remnant few will make it else you call Go a liar that he lied in the verse above and you know what happens to ppl who call God liars.

It is true that many will be told depart from me ye that work iniquity but that is to fulfill the gospel of the remnant - that only the selected remnant will enter the kingdom. That is why only he who endures till the end will be saved, merely believing on christ will not get you into heaven if God ordained you not to be a part of the successful few remnant who will endure. Do you understand it now.

This is why the Spirit said:

"In the later times many will depart from the faith and become lovers of self instead of lovers of God"

Here God is saying wat will happen in future once again confirming that creation is for his divine purpose. These camp predicted by the Spirit cannot help but fulfill what has come out of the mouth of God. so when christians fal away, it is confirmin the gospel of the remnant those who have not bowed to Baal. read romans. many xtians will succumb to sin and devil because thats what God ordained. only the select few will make it. painful but true. these are d true elect. are u one of them? or will ur pride lead u to make further blind arguments.

If God decides to send u to hell, u should say: "Who am I, I am only but clay and you are the porter. Thank you for sending me to hell because that glorifies you" That should be the prayer.

To the person who said the Blood of Christ was shed for all men, hear this:

1.) Christ died for all men. His Blood and the Cross was for all mankind. He was the last Adam.
2.) However, effectually speaking, the blood and the Cross are only effectual for the elect i.e. the called and chosen.
3.) The Bible says: "Many are called but few are chosen"; im guessing here but my hypothesis is that many are called into the kingdom but many of d called are stuck wiv sin to fulfill parable of the sower, now only the chosen persever and those few r d elect. but this is just a guess. but items 1.) and 2.) are sure.