aribisala0:


It is not fictional there have been videos shown on RT where verbal assurances were given. Yes we can argue they have no legal force. But the reality of international relatins is that if agreements do not favour the powerful they are re written AT GUN POINT

RT is not a credible source on this issue.
That said, vague verbal assurances are not agreements so nothing to rewrite in this case. In fact, they mean nothing.

It is good that you acknowledge that even real agreements properly signed, witnessed and documented can
be ignored as Putin did with the Minsk agreement. Isn't it therefore idiotic of Putin to use an unclear statement
as an everlasting legally binding agreement?

But I have been waiting a long time for an evidence of an agreement where NATO promised RUSSIA not to accept
any country on a forbidden list should they apply.

NATO issue is even by the way as this crises started with Ukraine's pro-EU move.
Perhaps the "agreement" also banned future membership of any European organization
to any country that has ever been subjected to Soviet's rule.

aribisala0:
Let us leave all that "mad man" and other emotional stuff to one side


If you are old enough to have been aware during the Cold War and the fall of Berlin you would understand.

His actions are completely rational based on Russian interest

After the fall of NAZI Germany in 1945 the US became the dominant force in Western Europe militarily and economically and was hostile to Communism .

After the fall of Communism the Natural thing to do would be to integrate Russia into Europe. The US see that as a threat and has done everything to stifle the economic progress of Russia. and to undermine and humiliate it


Just imagine how dominant the US would be in the world if Russia did not exist.

Sometimes you need to fight wars to show the world what you are capable of . The US did that in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing new


Ultimately Russia and NATO will go to war , that is inevitable because after Ukraine Russia will still want to push NATO out of Poland, Latvia Lithuania and Estonia. That is obvious and predictable

I’m not emotional kankan. And I never said his actions wasn’t logical in the defense of his country. But, a war with your direct neighbor could be messy.

And no, it’s not predictable for Putin to push for those countries to back out of NATO.

What is predictable is doing all he can to make sure Finland, Sweden remain neutral and he’s already threatening them not to even think about it.

sunboy:


First, There was no Germany. There was East Germany and West Germany.

2nd, you just want to argue baselessly… if you can read I’m not about to do that for you. Have a good day!

I know you will run away like others who repeat what they read without serious consideration.
Stop regurgitating ludicrous claims just because Putin say so, it is irritating.

ivolt:

I know you will run away like others who repeat what they read without serious consideration.
Stop regurgitating ludicrous claims just because Putin say so, it is irritating.

I’m no Putins fan boy. If you’re lazy enough to go read I’m not about to do that for you. It’s free information out there, there’s plenty article about it even on NATO website lol

sunboy:


I’m not emotional kankan. And I never said his actions wasn’t logical in the defense of his country. But, a war with your direct neighbor could be messy.

And no, it’s not predictable for Putin to push for those countries to back out of NATO.

What is predictable is doing all he can to make sure Finland, Sweden remain neutral and he’s already threatening them not to even think about it.

Well calling him mad mad is emotional. He is nod mad at all
If you do not go to war with your neighbour who do you go to war with? Study history
Especially EUROPEAN HISTORY.

They have fought many bloody wars in Europe over centuries. They formed the EU with the hope that greater integration would bring peace but decided to exclude Russia because it does not favour the US

Most wars are with neighbours so that is not an issue
All wars are messy

ivolt:

RT is not a credible source on this issue.
That said, vague verbal assurances are not agreements so nothing to rewrite in this case. In fact, they mean nothing.

It is good that you acknowledge that even real agreements properly signed, witnessed and documented can
be ignored as Putin did with the Minsk agreement. Isn't it therefore idiotic of Putin to use an unclear statement
as an everlasting legally binding agreement?

But I have been waiting a long time for an evidence of an agreement where NATO promised RUSSIA not to accept
any country on a forbidden list should they apply.

NATO issue is even by the way as this crises started with Ukraine's pro-EU move.
Perhaps the "agreement" also banned future membership of any European organization
to any country that has ever been subjected to Soviet's rule.

I must ask you what is the source of your information and what makes it more credible than RT
Why is RT not a credible source and which source would you consider credible CNN or BBC?
Who appointed you judge of credible sources?

The issue of agreement is a moot point it really does not matter now so do not make it into more than it is
I think we agree there is no legal agreement

Russia's position is they believed there was a gentleman's agreement. If the West say there was none then they will make one now BY FORCE

That is how the world has always worked

Do not distort history
The crises started when the legitimate government in Ukraine was overthrown in 2014 and a new government installed. The Eastern part of the country rejected the change and hostilities commenced( Exactly the same kind of thing that led to the Nigerian Civil War) which continue till today. That is how the so called Minsk Agreement came about and why Crimea was swallowed
Your characterization of Putin ignoring the Minsk agreement is not one I recognize. Both parties are not adhering to it and that is always the case where there is war.
Idiotic? More emotionality Putin's point is simple if you say there was no agreement then what you are now doing in my eyes looks like war let us talk. The West dismissed that so when he starts shooting they will come an talk sooner or later . That is reality


There is a legitimate government in Venezuela but the US and its allies decided to recognize an insurgent and seize government assets my point? Do no be a hypocrite Putin is acting with the same impunity that the US has always used

sunboy:


I’m no Putins fan boy. If you’re lazy enough to go read I’m not about to do that for you. It’s free information out there, there’s plenty article about it even on NATO website lol

He does not know because CNN won't tell him the truth.

aribisala0:


Why is RT not a credible source and which source would you consider credible CNN or BBC?

The issue of agreement is a moot point it really does not matter so do not make it into more than it is
I think we agree there is no legal agreement

The phantom agreement is not moot if that is what 100% of Putin admirers are regurgitating as the justification for this war.

Russia's position is they believe there was a gentleman's agreement. If there was none then they will make one now BY FORCE
That is how the world has always worked

The world worked with slavery for millennias, that was never a reason to excuse or continue it.

The crises started when the legitimate government in Ukraine was overthrown in 2014 and a new government installed.

A legitimate government is whoever is sitting in the government house and maybe gain most
recognition.
Even bloody military coupist are legitimate by default barring special political realities.
The Arab spring ousted several "legitimate" leaders such as Hosni Mubarak and Zine El Abidine Ben Ali but that doesn't mean the nations have to stand still for them. A nation is bigger than any leader or ruler in charge.
But no country is under obligation to accept the new person.

The Eastern part of the country rejected the change and hostilities commence which continue till today. That is how the so called Minsk Agreement came about.
Your characterization of Putin ignoring the Minsa agreement is not one I recognize. Both parties are not adhering to it and that is always the case where there is war.

No one forced Putin to approve the "so-called" Mink agreement.
And a fact about agreements is that it is as good as the sincerity of the parties involved.

There is a legitimate government in Venezuela but the US and its allies decided to recognize an insurgent and seize government assets my point? Do no be a hypocrite Putin is acting with teh same impunity that the US has always used

It is funny that you are comparing invasion with recognition and asset freeze.
I consider non-recognition and sanctions as a right of any sovereign country.

The US and its allies have the right and freedom to recognize whoever they want.
Had Putin set up a parallel government and installed the ousted president as legitimate, most people
won't even care more than murmur for a few days.

In fact, if he had invaded and set up a buffer zone to "protect" his tribesmen and stop at that,
it would have even been understandable. But he wants the whole country under his rule because
according to the "history" he recently recite, he doesn't think Ukraine is a real country.

But he had a big problem, unlike Eastern Ukraine with substantial rebels, his
mercenaries and plain cloth soldiers cannot take over the rest of the country who obviously
aren't pro-Russia. So he was forced to conventional war.

Unlike many of you, my stand on invasions are uniform, it is wrong and condemnable and will continue to be regardless
of the parties involved.

ivolt:

The phantom agreement is not moot if that is what 100% of Putin admirers are regurgitating as the justification for this war.


The world worked with slavery for millennias, that was never a reason to excuse or continue it.


A legitimate government is whoever is sitting in the government house and maybe gain most
recognition.
Even bloody military coupist are legitimate by default barring special political realities.
The Arab spring ousted several "legitimate" leaders such as Hosni Mubarak and Zine El Abidine Ben Ali but that doesn't mean the nations have to stand still for them. A nation is bigger than any leader or ruler in charge.
But no country is under obligation to accept the new person.


No one forced Putin to approve the "so-called" Mink agreement.
And a fact about agreements is that it is as good as the sincerity of the parties involved.


It is funny that you are comparing invasion with recognition and asset freeze.
I consider non-recognition and sanctions as a right of any sovereign country.

The US and its allies have the right and freedom to recognize whoever they want.
Had Putin set up a parallel government and installed the ousted president as legitimate, most people
won't even care more than murmur for a few days.

In fact, if he had invaded and set up a buffer zone to "protect" his tribesmen and stop at that,
it would have even been understandable. But he wants the whole country under his rule because
according to the "history" he recently recite, he doesn't think Ukraine is a real country.

But he had a big problem, unlike Eastern Ukraine with substantial rebels, his
mercenaries and plain cloth soldiers cannot take over the rest of the country who obviously
aren't pro-Russia. So he was forced to conventional war.

Unlike many of you, my stand on invasions are uniform, it is wrong and condemnable and will continue to be regardless
of the parties involved.

What is the source of your information and why is RT not credible?

The point is neither parties to the Minsk agreement ever complied so it is irrelevant now

The agreement may or may not be phantom . I do not know the fact that yo claim it is show bias

I do not know how you know.
Yes you are right about sincerity of parties in agreements we alls aw Trump unilaterally tear up the agreement with Iran

The point is unilateralism is an unfortunate privilege that the US has enjoyed and in doing so has set dangerous precedents

Russia is now saying we too can act unilaterally

There have been many US invasions if you want a litany

Cuba,
Nicaragua
Syria
Afghanistan
Panama


Again you are emotional

"Unlike many of you" with respect you speak foolishly when you personalize things . Do you know me?
You are now arrogating some higher moral ground to yourself. Arrogant and foolish talk .

Deal with the issues and leave out the patronizing talk

aribisala0:


What is the source of your information and why is RT not credible?

The point is neither parties to the Minsk agreement ever complied so it is irrelevant now

The agreement may or may not be phantom . I do not know the fact that yo claim it is show bias

I do not know how you know.
Yes you are right about sincerity of parties in agreements we alls aw Trump unilaterally tear up the agreement with Iran

The point is unilateralism is an unfortunate privilege that the US has enjoyed and in doing so has set dangerous precedents

Russia is now saying we too can act unilaterally

There have been many US invasions if you want a litany

Cuba,
Nicaragua
Syria
Afghanistan
Panama


Again you are emotional

"Unlike many of you" with respect you speak foolishly when you personalize things . Do you know me?
You are now arrogating some higher moral ground to yourself. Arrogant and foolish talk .

Deal with the issues and leave out the patronizing talk

There are more country's not in your list that USA has invaded which will blow the mind of a rational thinking person.

Those guys just don't know it is dangerous to one soul super power determining our lifes.

Kingsnairaland:


There are more country's not in your list that USA has invaded which will blow the mind of a rational thinking person.

Those guys just don't know it is dangerous to one soul super power determining our lifes.

The truth is that economically they still control us.
What no one is asking is why they have allowed the whole West African region to burn with the steady undermining of Nigeran that entails, Repeatedly they have blocked us from buying arms and facilitated the theft and siphoning of our money

We have thousands of miles of coast in Africa fished by foreign vessels and the fish taken to Europe

If only we knew the extent of our enslavement

Kingsnairaland:


western world freedom of thinking and speech means being a slave of western ideas and propagating it only. If your idea is different from west they portrait you as criminal person and all of them tried to threatened you! This is ridiculous!
The Ukrainian leaders were the puppet and boot lickers of the western world, they are responsible for ukraine crisis!

a lot of them don't understand that.. Libya is in mess today because of usa, same as iraq, Venezuela and several other countries. Everything usa is or will do will first be in favor of their country not yours

aribisala0:
The truth is that economically they still control us.
What no one is asking is why they have allowed the whole West African region to burn with the steady undermining of Nigeran that entails, Repeatedly they have blocked us from buying arms and facilitated the theft and siphoning of our money

We have thousands of miles of coast in Africa fished by foreign vessels and the fish taken to Europe

If only we knew the extent of our enslavement

We know the extent but because our leaders are currupt that why no one is complaining


When you are stealing from the pot and you see your friend stealing from another pot you see each other no one will say pim at police station.


That why no one is complaining.

dvkot:
a lot of them don't understand that.. Libya is in mess today because of usa, same as iraq, Venezuela and several other countries. Everything usa is or will do will first be in favor of their country not yours

The truth is that USA freedom theory started off good and well even Russia liked the initial formula they brought which was pure freedom.

But recently they have perverted the freedom into some things else more dangerous.

They have made it in such a way if you are not with them they we will kill you and impose their way of life on you.

To the extent the freedom has made children who are male to chose to be female

And female wants to be man.


Transgender specimen inability to think properly and freedom to smoke Crack weed any time.

The so called freedom has been abused and turned into woke culture.

This is the tipping point of we who are cool cool minded and think properly.. So

Russia even China and so many who won't come out to say, don't want to be a part of this extreme world

Kingsnairaland:


The truth is that USA freedom theory started off good and well even Russia liked the initial formula they brought which was pure freedom.

But recently they have perverted the freedom into some things else more dangerous.

They have made it in such a way if you are not with them they we will kill you and impose their way of life on you.

To the extent the freedom has made children who are male to chose to be female

And female wants to be man.


Transgender specimen inability to think properly and freedom to smoke Crack weed any time.

The so called freedom has been abused and turned into woke culture.

This is the tipping point of we who are cool cool minded and think properly.. So

Russia even China and so many who won't come out to say, don't want to be a part of this extreme world

very true bro, very true.. Their so called freedom is to identify a man as a woman and if you are against it they would call you a dictator