The writer even called king Solomon a loving husband because he allowed his wives to mislead him and steer him away from the path of his God. Chai! Emotional manipulation.

elated177:



Donnie, could you throw more light on your assertions above, especially on the emboldened?

Perhaps you may want to be specific with your questions?

donnie:


Perhaps you may want to be specific with your questions?

Did you see the bold part?

elated177:


Did you see the bold part?

If you can't ask a question then kindly get off my mention. I told you I'm not here for your kind.

elated177:


I was already familiar with that portion of the Scriptures before today. I have read the op. I grasped the narrative it tried so hard to push forward.

There's no narrative being pushed here. The account of the confrontation between the Moabites and Israelites, as recounted in the Moabite Stone and 2 Kings is quite very easy to understand. The Israelites attacked the Moabites, getting the upper hand up until a divine wrath came upon them and made them withdraw.

I asked you to show me where it was stated that the Moabites actually engaged the Israelites after that human sacrifice and defeated them. You came up with nothing.

Your request is null and void because it was stated explicitly in the OP that it was Chemosh who stepped into the battle and forced the Israelites to run off with their tail between their legs, thereby overturning Yahweh's prophecy. The Israelites did not achieve their objective. They were forced to retreat. You're fabricating imaginary assertions.

Why ain't you getting it?

Actually it's you who's not getting it. You clearly didn't read the story or understand the events in the story. You read a post discussing your God's inadequacy and decided to jump in head first into the discourse out of your compulsive need to defend a God that can't even defend itself.

You saw a story, read it and ran with because, not only did it suit your warped narrative, it, in a weird and ridiculous sort of way, helped to energize your hatred for the truth of the only true God, the Creator of heaven and earth, the only omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient One.

Again there's no narrative here. The story is clear as day. And it obviously calls your God's omni traits into question.

Back then in secondary, there was this friend that came up with a weird way of eating his visiting day rice alone. He would clear his throat, gather all sorts of things in his mouth and spit into his plate of rice. He would then take his time and stir the rice for proper mixture. When he had done that, he would ask us if wanted to eat. He knew very well that none of us would eat. In fact, watching him eat that same rice made some of puke.

Don't beat about the bush. Make your point directly if you're confident in your arguments

Actually, the Israelites had already won the war. Did you even read the portion of the Scriptures that you posted? Go and read that portion of the Scripture very well.

Actually, the Israelites didn't win the war. Yahweh promised to deliver the land of Moab into their hands, and he failed. Chemosh punked Yahweh. King Mesha of Moab made a sacrifice causing the Moabite deity to come down himself and drive the Israelites away.

Also, you're forgetting the Moabite Inscription which gives a similar account of the event:

"Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions... and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh... And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele#Text

If the Israelites were already victorious, surely it wouldn't be recorded that they fled from the battle? Yahweh took the L in the story, and clearly there are Gods who are just as powerful, if not moreso, than Yahweh.

donnie:


[...]

3. Sacrifice? Assuming you are a Nigerian, can you say you do not know what powers sacrifices (let alone human sacrifice) could activate? The problem was not with YAHUAH or His promise, but with the actions (or inactions) of his own people as compared with the desperation of the Moabite king demonstrated in the sacrificing of his own heir. In spirtuality, there are laws and sacrifice is one of them. It works irrespective of who is involved. The difference is, for those who are called according to His purpose (Isolele/Isalele/Israel), there is favour and victory because they are called and chosen by the Most High according to his purpose.

Is the bolded another one of you Christians' cliches of blaming people's misfortunes on their lack of faith in God? Correct me if I'm wrong. In any case, the story seems to portray Chemosh as more proactive and Yahweh as more passive.

4. False Prophecy? Well I don't think so.

2 Kings 3:17-19
this happened... they had water.
This also happened, the Moabites were delivered into their hands and they killed many.
This happened too.

Lol. Oh please. How very convenient of you

How about the part where Yahweh said "Moab will be handed over" and "you shall conquer every fortified city". You do know what is meant by every, don't you?

GodIsDead:


Is the bolded another one of you Christians' cliches of blaming people's misfortunes on their lack of faith in God? Correct me if I'm wrong.

1. I'm not a Christian
2. No it's not about having or not having faith. Many details were left out of that passage, besides obvious ones like how exactly and in what form did the "indignation" (anger) manifest against Isalele/Israel; And if the indignation was from YAH against his people, WHY? Etc.

In any case, the story seems to portray Chemosh as more proactive and Yahweh as more passive.

wondering how you came about that.

How about the part where Yahweh said "Moab will be handed over" and "you shall conquer every fortified city". You do know what is meant by every, don't you?

2 Kings 3:25
[25]And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone, and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees: only in Kirharaseth left they the stones thereof; howbeit the slingers went about it, and smote it.

donnie:


If you can't ask a question then kindly get off my mention. I told you I'm not here for your kind.

What kind is that, Donnie?

GodIsDead:


There's no narrative being pushed here. The account of the confrontation between the Moabites and Israelites, as recounted in the Moabite Stone and 2 Kings is quite very easy to understand. The Israelites attacked the Moabites, getting the upper hand up until a divine wrath came upon them and made them withdraw.

Surely, until now you still haven't understood why the Israelites withdrew? Ehehehehe! Chai! This is what happens when a person is fixated on a particular narrative. You will never accept the truth even if it is biting you on the lip. Ehehehehe!

GodIsDead:

Your request is null and void because it was stated explicitly in the OP that it was Chemosh who stepped into the battle and forced the Israelites to run off with their tail between their legs, thereby overturning Yahweh's prophecy. The Israelites did not achieve their objective. They were forced to retreat. You're fabricating imaginary assertions.

You should have shown where it was explicitly stated in the Scriptures. Where did the Scripture you quoted state that the abominable god of the Moabites, Chemosh, forced the Israelites to withdraw? What do you think was the objective of the Israelites?

GodIsDead:

Actually it's you who's not getting it. You clearly didn't read the story or understand the events in the story. You read a post discussing your God's inadequacy and decided to jump in head first into the discourse out of your compulsive need to defend a God that can't even defend itself.

Ehehehehe!

This is what happens when people just copy and paste. Like I said earlier, you just saw the commentaries of the owner that write up, read it and ran with it because it suited your warped narrative.

Ehehehehe!

You think I am defending my God? My God defends me and not the other way round. He fights for me. I don't fight for him. As his saint, servant and prophet, it is my duty to use human language to teach and explain difficult things to the genuine seekers, as his great and awesome Spirit/Power directs and leads.
I am only trying to teach you what you don't know and have refused to know. Not that you are even capable of accepting the truth. You heart has been hardened. I am only doing this for the benefit of the genuine seekers.

GodIsDead:

Again there's no narrative here. The story is clear as day. And it obviously calls your God's omni traits into question.

Ehehehehe!

Only if you knew. The omnipotency, the omnipresence and the omniscience of my God, YHVH Almighty, the one and only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, are not in doubt.

GodIsDead:

Don't beat about the bush. Make your point directly if you're confident in your arguments

You still cannot fathom why I shared that story? Chai! Keep wailing.

GodIsDead:

Actually, the Israelites didn't win the war. Yahweh promised to deliver the land of Moab into their hands, and he failed. Chemosh punked Yahweh. King Mesha of Moab made a sacrifice causing the Moabite deity to come down himself and drive the Israelites away.

The Israelites already accomplished the aims. Read my posts so far and decipher for yourself why the Israelites withdrew. Show some personal intelligence. Don't just depend on the commentaries and summations of another person.

GodIsDead:

Also, you're forgetting the Moabite Inscription which gives a similar account of the event:

"Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions... and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh... And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele#Text

Now that you have gotten to this point, listen and learn. Try your best, I know you are not capable of such. Just put extra effort.

Who was Omri?

1 Kings 16: 25 But Omri did evil in the eyes of YHVH and sinned more than all those before him. 26 He followed completely the ways of Jeroboam son of Nebat, committing the same sin Jeroboam had caused Israel to commit, so that they aroused the anger of YHVH, the God of Israel, by their worthless idols.

Micah 6: 16 You have observed the statutes of Omri and all the practices of Ahab’s house; you have followed their traditions. Therefore I will give you over to ruin and your people to derision; you will bear the scorn of the nations.”

Have you seen who Omri was?

Continue to listen and learn, if at all you are capable of such.

Judges 2: 11 Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of YHVH and served the Baals. 12 They forsook YHVH, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused YHVH’s anger 13 because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14 In his anger against Israel YHVH gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15 Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of YHVH was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress.

Deut 32: 21 They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding. 22 For a fire will be kindled by my wrath, one that burns down to the realm of the dead below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains. 23 “I will heap calamities on them and spend my arrows against them. 24 I will send wasting famine against them, consuming pestilence and deadly plague; I will send against them the fangs of wild beasts, the venom of vipers that glide in the dust. 25 In the street the sword will make them childless; in their homes terror will reign. The young men and young women will perish, the infants and those with gray hair.

Wait for it.

Deut 9: 25 I lay prostrate before YHVH those forty days and forty nights because YHVH had said he would destroy you. 28 Otherwise, the country from which you brought us will say, ‘Because YHVH was not able to take them into the land he had promised them, and because he hated them, he brought them out to put them to death in the wilderness.’

Are you ready for it? Here it is.

Deut 32: 26 I said I would scatter them and erase their name from human memory, 27 but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy, lest the adversary misunderstand and say, ‘Our hand has triumphed; YHVH has not done all this.’”

What Mesha ascribed to his abominable god was the punishment that YHVH Almighty, the God of the Israelites, poured on them for their disobedience.

GodIsDead:

If the Israelites were already victorious, surely it wouldn't be recorded that they fled from the battle? Yahweh took the L in the story, and clearly there are Gods who are just as powerful, if not moreso, than Yahweh.

You still think so?

elated177:


Surely, until now you still haven't understood why the Israelites withdrew?

They withdrew because they were afraid of getting licked by Chemosh na. It's clearly written in your Bible, but I understand you're desperate to color the story to make it seem like the Israelites didn't just scurry off with their tails between their legs, without actually completing their mission

This is what happens when a person is fixated on a particular narrative. You will never accept the truth even if it is biting you on the lip.

You keep blabbing about the supposed truth of events but you're yet to actually show how the account of the story given by the Moabite Stele or 2 Kings doesn't tally with my conclusions

You should have shown where it was explicitly stated in the Scriptures. Where did the Scripture you quoted state that the abominable god of the Moabites, Chemosh, forced the Israelites to withdraw? What do you think was the objective of the Israelites?

Lol. Are you trying to play dumb? Who was the divine wrath or fury that came upon Israel after Mesha sacrificed his son? It couldn't possibly be Yahweh, so who could it have been? What was Yahweh's prophecy concerning the battle? To what extent was the prophecy fulfilled? Yahweh explicitly said he would deliver Moab into Israel's hands. Did that happen?

If Moab was a football and Yahweh delivered Moab into Israel's hands, then Israel dropped the ball before he made it into the end zone

This is what happens when people just copy and paste. Like I said earlier, you just saw the commentaries of the owner that write up, read it and ran with it because it suited your warped narrative.

It's actually funny because all you've done is cast aspersions, prevaricate and whine about my narrative being wrong. You've honestly brought nothing worth deliberating over, to the table so far. The story is clear enough for anybody honest and intelligent to understand but obviously intelligence isn't your strong suit, and neither is honesty. So now you want to twist the clear indications of the words used in the story and pin it on me lacking the understandind but you've actually not presented a reasonable counter to the argument posted.

You think I am defending my God?

You're not? Well that's interesting. A Christian apologist trying to argue and at the same time trying to imply that he's not defending his God

My God defends me and not the other way round. He fights for me. I don't fight for him.

Then why didn't he have the balls to face Chemosh head on when Chemosh stepped into the fray for the Moabites in the war against the Israelite military coalition?

As his saint, servant and prophet, it is my duty to use human language to teach and explain difficult things to the genuine seekers, as his great and awesome Spirit/Power directs and leads.
I am only trying to teach you what you don't know and have refused to know. Not that you are even capable of accepting the truth. You heart has been hardened. I am only doing this for the benefit of the genuine seekers.

I've probably said this elsewhere, but if you're trying to "teach" me stuff from the Bible, I'll advise you to save your breath and pack it in. In my experience, Christian apologists always have an escape route for any glaring inaccuracies presented in the Bible and they will always strive to push their narrative even if it conflates with that of their fellow Christians - which is probably why even Christians have heated debates among themselves. I do NOT trust you. The story of the battle between Israel and Moab is clear in terms of how the events played out. And it's clear that Yahweh's prophecy failed and the Israelites were punked and chased out of Moab. So keep chasing your tail over there

Ehehehehe!

Stop forcing it. There's nothing amusing about your predicament. It is rather pitiful. Your God is not all-powerful. It's the truth you clearly cant handle

Only if you knew. The omnipotency, the omnipresence and the omniscience of my God, YHVH Almighty, the one and only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, are not in doubt.

Unfortunately, it's been established that you couldn't see the trees for the forest even if one fell on your head

You still cannot fathom why I shared that story? Chai! Keep wailing.

No request was made for your bland and blathering story. If you can't make your points directly then keep it moving

Read my posts so far and decipher for yourself why the Israelites withdrew.

They withdrew because Chemosh came down and gave them a mass whooping

Who was Omri?

1 Kings 16: 25 But Omri did evil in the eyes of YHVH and sinned more than all those before him. 26 He followed completely the ways of Jeroboam son of Nebat, committing the same sin Jeroboam had caused Israel to commit, so that they aroused the anger of YHVH, the God of Israel, by their worthless idols.

Micah 6: 16 You have observed the statutes of Omri and all the practices of Ahab’s house; you have followed their traditions. Therefore I will give you over to ruin and your people to derision; you will bear the scorn of the nations.”

Have you seen who Omri was?

Continue to listen and learn, if at all you are capable of such.

Judges 2: 11 Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of YHVH and served the Baals. 12 They forsook YHVH, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused YHVH’s anger 13 because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14 In his anger against Israel YHVH gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15 Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of YHVH was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress.

Deut 32: 21 They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding. 22 For a fire will be kindled by my wrath, one that burns down to the realm of the dead below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains. 23 “I will heap calamities on them and spend my arrows against them. 24 I will send wasting famine against them, consuming pestilence and deadly plague; I will send against them the fangs of wild beasts, the venom of vipers that glide in the dust. 25 In the street the sword will make them childless; in their homes terror will reign. The young men and young women will perish, the infants and those with gray hair.

Wait for it.

Deut 9: 25 I lay prostrate before YHVH those forty days and forty nights because YHVH had said he would destroy you. 28 Otherwise, the country from which you brought us will say, ‘Because YHVH was not able to take them into the land he had promised them, and because he hated them, he brought them out to put them to death in the wilderness.’

Are you ready for it? Here it is.

Deut 32: 26 I said I would scatter them and erase their name from human memory, 27 but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy, lest the adversary misunderstand and say, ‘Our hand has triumphed; YHVH has not done all this.’”

What Mesha ascribed to his abominable god was the punishment that YHVH Almighty, the God of the Israelites, poured on them for their disobedience.




You still think so?

So Yahweh lied by promising victory to the Israelites over Moab through prophecy then... How omnibenevolent

Besides, why would a God, any God, need people to fight and kill each other in useless wars? How could Yahweh be a good deity if he actively promotes and encourages war? Why would an omnipotent being be in any need of war?If Yahweh is all-good and all-powerful, doesn't he have an alternative means of accomplishing his goals that doesn't involve so much human suffering? If he is all-good, why doesn't he avail himself of these means?

Oh and you seem to be avoiding the fact that the Biblical worldview promotes polytheism. Have you nothing to say on that front?

donnie:

1. I'm not a Christian

Interesting

2. No it's not about having or not having faith. Many details were left out of that passage, besides obvious ones like how exactly and in what form did the "indignation" (anger) manifest against Isalele/Israel; And if the indignation was from YAH against his people, WHY? Etc.

I think it's reasonable to conclude that it was from the Moabite deity. It wouldn't make sense for Yahweh to promise the Israelites victory, only to sabotage their victory eventually. And if Yahweh really was pissed at his people, what could have made him angry?

wondering how you came about that.

Lemme put it in the form of a question. Why couldn't Yahweh defend the Israelites when the divine wrath (Most likely Chemosh) came upon them?

2 Kings 3:25
[25]And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone, and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees: only in Kirharaseth left they the stones thereof; howbeit the slingers went about it, and smote it.

Okay. But the land of Moab wasn't delivered unto them as promised by Yahweh

GodIsDead:




Then why didn't he have the balls to face Chemosh head on when Chemosh stepped into the fray for the Moabites in the war against the Israelite military coalition?

Ehehehehe!

No need for the back and forth. I have made my points. The genuine seekers can read and decide for themselves. It is all about the honour of the One who owns me.

Now, let's bring it home. Is the abominable Chemosh your god? If not, who/what is your god or goddess? What is his/her name? What are his/her requirements? What can he/she do through you?

Are you of the opinion that I should leave the one and only true God, YHVH Almighty, the Father of the spirits of all flesh? What or who are you offering me in his place?

GodIsDead:
I think it's reasonable to conclude that it was from the Moabite deity.

. That's not possible, I speak form experience.

And if Yahweh really was pissed at his people, what could have made him angry?

If there isn't much detail provided, we should stick with that which was provided or at worst speculate, rather than draw baseless conclusions.

Okay. But the land of Moab wasn't delivered unto them as promised by Yahweh

kindly show passage where the land of Moabites was promised them.

From http://www.tektonics.org/af/callahanproph.php#2kin327

There is one big thing that speaks against this "wrath" being from Chemosh - in this war against Moab, Israel was not alone: They were accompanied by the Edomites and by the armies of Judah, and there is no indication that either of these armies had to take a break from the field.

However, Herzog and Gichon in Battles of the Bible [171] provide the answer: Child sacrifice was often performed in the ANE because of imminent plague. The Israelites would have interpreted the sacrifice as an indication that plague was already in the city, and therefore would have made haste to leave as soon as possible.

The word for "wrath" means indignation or strife, and "against" is a preposition that can mean among, between, concerning, or through.

elated177:


Ehehehehe!

I sense bitterness in this laugh

No need for the back and forth. I have made my points.

You haven't made jack here, bub

The genuine seekers can read and decide for themselves.

Then let them decide. Let the objective, honest, intelligent and unbiased decided for themselves

It is all about the honour of the One who owns me.

You're a slave to your imaginations. I knew that much already

Now, let's bring it home

Home?

Is the abominable Chemosh your god?

I worship no Gods

[s]

If not, who/what is your god or goddess? What is his/her name? What are his/her requirements? What can he/she do through you?

[/s]

Are you of the opinion that I should leave the one and only true God, YHVH Almighty, the Father of the spirits of all flesh? What or who are you offering me in his place?

I'm of the opinion that events in your Bible indicate that more than one God exists. And that the God you worship is certainly not more powerful than the other Gods worshipped in the Bible

It's none of my business if you want to keep worshipping your God.

donnie:
. That's not possible, I speak form experience.

Facepalm

If there isn't much detail provided, we should stick with that which was provided or at worst speculate, rather than draw baseless conclusions.

I'm sticking to the literal interpretations of the story as presented in all its source materials. And the conclusions I've made are perfectly reasonable and within the realms of logic and common sense

kindly show passage where the land of Moabites was promised them.

This is an easy(R) thing in the eyes of the Lord; he will also deliver Moab into your hands.

Please indulge me and tell me your understanding of this verse

GodIsDead:

Facepalm

I'm sticking to the literal interpretations of the story as presented in all its source materials. And the conclusions I've made are perfectly reasonable and within the realms of logic and common sense

This is an easy(R) thing in the eyes of the Lord; he will also deliver Moab into your hands.

Please indulge me and tell me your understanding of this verse

Moab is a people, not a land. Just like Jacob/Yasharel/Israel is a people, not a land.. The biblical children of Israel are below the Sahara in Africa while the agendists deceive the world that the Europeans in the fake land in the negev are the people of the book.

Land is named after the people not the other way round. So do not use colonial mentality to interpret the scriptures. Where colonialists renamed lands and people in order to divide and rule and steal people's inheritance.

G-d Exists - The fact of G-d's existence is accepted almost without question. Proof is not needed, and is rarely offered. The Torah begins by stating "In the beginning, G-d created..." It does not tell who G-d is or how He was created. In general, Judaism views the existence of G-d as a necessary prerequisite for the existence of the universe. The existence of the universe is sufficient proof of the existence of G-d.

G-d is One - One of the primary expressions of Jewish faith, recited twice daily in prayer, is the Shema, which begins "Hear, Israel: The L-rd is our G-d, The L-rd is one." This simple statement encompasses several different ideas:
There is only one G-d. No other being participated in the work of creation.

G-d is a unity. He is a single, whole, complete indivisible entity. He cannot be divided into parts or described by attributes. Any attempt to ascribe attributes to G-d is merely man's imperfect attempt to understand the infinite.

G-d is the only being to whom we should offer praise. The Shema can also be translated as "The L-rd is our G-d, The L-rd alone," meaning that no other is our G-d, and we should not pray to any other.

G-d is the Creator of Everything - Everything in the universe was created by G-d and only by G-d. Judaism completely rejects the dualistic notion that evil was created by Satan or some other deity. All comes from G-d. As Isaiah said, "I am the L-rd, and there is none else. I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil. I am the L-rd, that does all these things." (Is. 45:6-7).

G-d is Incorporeal - Although many places in scripture and Talmud speak of various parts of G-d's body (the Hand of G-d, G-d's wings, etc.) or speak of G-d in anthropomorphic terms (G-d walking in the garden of Eden, G-d laying tefillin, etc.), Judaism firmly maintains that G-d has no body. Any reference to G-d's body is simply a figure of speech, a means of making G-d's actions more comprehensible to beings living in a material world. Much of Maimonides' Guide for the Perplexed is devoted to explaining each of these anthropomorphic references and proving that they should be understood figuratively.

We are forbidden to represent G-d in a physical form. That is considered idolatry. The sin of the Golden Calf incident was not that the people chose another deity, but that they tried to represent G-d in a physical form.

G-d is Neither Male nor Female - This followed directly from the fact that G-d has no physical form. As one rabbi explained it to me, G-d has no body, no Instruments, therefore the very idea that G-d is male or female is patently absurd. We refer to G-d using masculine terms simply for convenience's sake, because Hebrew has no neutral gender; G-d is no more male than a table is.

Although we usually speak of G-d in masculine terms, there are times when we refer to G-d using feminine terms. The Shechinah, the manifestation of G-d's presence that fills the universe, is conceived of in feminine terms, and the word Shechinah is a feminine word.

G-d is Omnipresent - G-d is in all places at all times. He fills the universe and exceeds its scope. He is always near for us to call upon in need, and He sees all that we do. Closely tied in with this idea is the fact that G-d is universal. He is not just the G-d of the Jews; He is the G-d of all nations.

G-d is Omnipotent - G-d can do anything. It is said that the only thing that is beyond His power is the fear of Him; that is, we have free will, and He cannot compel us to do His will. This belief in G-d's omnipotence has been sorely tested during the many persecutions of Jews, but we have always maintained that G-d has a reason for allowing these things, even if we in our limited perception and understanding cannot see the reason.

G-d is Omniscient - G-d knows all things, past, present and future. He knows our thoughts.

G-d is Eternal - G-d transcends time. He has no beginning and no end. He will always be there to fulfill his promises. When Moses asked for G-d's name, He replied, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh." That phrase is generally translated as, "I am that I am," but the word "ehyeh" can be present or future tense, meaning "I am what I will be" or "I will be what I will be." The ambiguity of the phrase is often interpreted as a reference to G-d's eternal nature.

G-d is Both Just and Merciful - Christians often speak of Judaism as the religion of the strict Law, which no human being is good enough to fulfill (hence the need for the sacrifice of Jesus). This is a gross mischaracterization of Jewish belief. Judaism has always maintained that G-d's justice is tempered by mercy, the two qualities perfectly balanced. Of the two Names of G-d most commonly used in scripture, one refers to his quality of justice and the other to his quality of mercy. The two names were used together in the story of Creation, showing that the world was created with both justice and mercy.

GodIsDead:
■ When discussing the "Gods", pagans are often challenged by Christians with the God of the Bible known as Yahweh, and Yahweh gets laden with these attributes of omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence and sometimes omnipresence. Now, disregarding the incoherence of the Trinity for the moment and how often the "omni-" traits are meaningless to define anyway, it's difficult to figure out exactly how Christians come to the conclusion that their God has these traits. Some arguments connecting him to the creation of the world would argue that these traits are necessary for his existence, but I don't see power sufficient to create the universe as necessarily omnipotent, nor do I see the ability to establish a connection between being the creator and the God of the Bible beyond simple scriptural claims. Nothing about the Christian experience of their God implies that he must be the only one, nor does it imply that he must be the creator.
■To make this case, we can assume the response to prayers as claimed by Christians as legitimate, and we can even grant their various miracles, but NONE of these suggests their God is all-powerful or even the most powerful, because in order to grant all these for one God, we have to grant them for all Gods accross traditions, given that we have no reason to dismiss other Gods.
■ So we look to scripture and we find the various events with Moses, who historians don't think existed, or is based on any real events... but that aside, locusts and frogs do not make for omnipotence. And even splitting the Red Sea and destroying the walls of Jericho are nothing compared to creation which can't even be connected to Yahweh except through scriptures, and even then, you have to overlook the various scientific errors in the narrative which are handed down by a "perfect" and "all-knowing" God. But Christians will point to PROPHESY to show the superiority of their God - that each prophesy that comes true is the true revelation of their God's omniscience and/or omnipotence in order to bring these events about. But surely, if that were the case, then ALL prophecies would have come true... except that's not what we find, and to discover this, we only need to look at the Bible.
■ Now, Christians mean many things when they talk about "false gods". Sometimes they mean Gods that do not exist. Sometimes they mean Gods that they simply re-label as "demons" for their own reasons. The interesting part about this is that often, Christians do not deny the existence of other Gods, they simply namecall them as "demons" in order to avoid being considered polytheists (even though their God has a son, but that's besides the point).

1. Not here to hold brief for any religion, but interested in helping answer some of the claims made by the OP. It's not really left to individuals to decide in this case, as far as God's omnipotence. He is written as the one who in fact created all things, and it is indicated He is sovereign over all of His creation, His omnipotence implied as a result. So, when it comes to scripture, God is said to be All-powerful because He wields power and control over all that He created.

As for the existence of other gods, there is no question of that given that God in scripture is indicated as God of gods meaning there are other gods in the mix, and He being the highest of them all.

2. That is a terrible way to make your case. If you have 1 billion people who claim by mouth to believe in God yet by deeds, all 1 billion reject God's Law meaning they do not in fact submit to and obey God's teachings and commandments, rules set down by God as far as receiving from Him is concerned, is God to blame for their prayers not meeting up to His requirements? Is God to blame for their disobedience of Him?

Also, the text in made bold red is a terrible assumption on your part. In Scripture, we are clearly informed that God chose for Himself Israel as His one and only inheritance in the land of men meaning that His promises apply only to those who are of the tribe of Israel. So why would He require the aid of other gods when He is the one and only God over His Israel?

3. The narrative was not handed down by God but instead, it was penned down in human language by humans for consumption by other humans basically by use of human language comprehension skills. So, the book was never meant to be a perfect rendering of events that occurred thousands of years ago for those who lived thousands of years after the fact. There is no such thing as a perfect record of an event, not when humans and human language are concerned.

Regarding prophecies, are they all meant to have been realized by this particular point in time or what?

4. If in Scripture, God is described only as God of Israel, then surely other tribes would have their own deities who look out for their own interests, yes? Also, does a Yoruba deity, for instance, accept worship from non-Yoruba worshippers? Most likely not, but that hasn't stopped men from suggesting that to be the case given that men are known to pretend their delusions are of the gods.

In Scripture, God clearly described Himself as God of Israel — Jesus Christ in tow— indicating there is only one true God that the Israelites can worship. All other attempts by them, the israelites, at worshipping other gods would result in meaningless worship given that there is no other god available to them as a result of their covenant with God. Not even the gods of Egyptians would accept worship from israelites hence the reason why those of them who worship other gods are easily referred to as idol worshippers aka worshippers of false gods, gods incapable of answering them.

GodIsDead:
According to the story, the King of Moab sacrificed someone to Chemosh. It's questionable whether or not it was the son of the Edomite King or his own son. Now, ignoring that the Bible often accuses enemies of human sacrifice where there's archeological evidence revealing a different story, or the irony of Christians looking down upon a kingly figure sacrificing his own son for his people, the story does have an interesting moment: Chemosh enters the battle, and overturns Yahweh's prophecy! It is described that as a result of the sacrifice, a great wrath came upon Israel, causing the Israelite coalition to retreat from King Mesha.

Now, the Moabite Stone and 2 Kings tell slightly different stories, but the differences are interesting. Both admit that the Moabites won, and both attribute the victory to Chemosh. But the Moabite record doesn't include any reference to the cause of sacrifice. It infact seems quite proud of how well things went, while the account in 2 Kings admits in embarrassment that their prophecy was overturned by the actions of another God. So now we're stuck in this position: Yahweh can fail. And therefore, he is not omnipotent. If he does have omnipotence however, that would mean that there are lies in this story, and that the Bible is NOT the perfect word of God, sacrificing Biblical authority.

But either way, the story reveals that even in a Biblical worldview, polytheism is true. And so the Christian that places their faith in the Bible must not only hold that polytheism is true, but that there are Gods stronger than Yahweh!

But you missed the most important part of the story which is that all those who came after Solomon was already doomed by God of Israel to lose the Kingdom that God had originally allowed David and Solomon after Him to have. You quoted from 1 King 11 but for some reason didn't read to the very end to realize what Solomon's act which you claim was of a loving husband had set in motion as far as Isreal and the line of David was concerned.

30 Ahijah took his new coat and tore it into twelve pieces.
31 Then he said to Jeroboam, “Take ten pieces of this coat for yourself because the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I will tear the kingdom away from Solomon, and I will give you ten of the tribes.
32 I will let David’s family keep only one tribe. I will do this because of my servant David and because of Jerusalem, the city that I chose from among all the tribes of Israel.
33 I will take the kingdom from Solomon because he stopped following me and began worshiping Ashtoreth, the goddess of Sidon; Chemosh, the god of Moab; and Milcom, the god of the Ammonites. Solomon stopped following my ways and doing what I say is right. He does not obey my laws and commands as his father David did.
34 So I will take the kingdom away from Solomon’s family. I chose David because he obeyed all my laws and commands. So for my servant David, I will let Solomon be the king for the rest of his life.
35 But Jeroboam, I will take the ten tribes away from his son and give them to you.
36 I will let Solomon’s son keep one tribe to rule over. I will do this for my servant David, so he will always have someone to rule near me in Jerusalem, the city that I chose to be my own.
37 But I will make you king of Israel. You will rule over everything you want.
38 If you live right and obey all my commands as David did, I will be with you and make your family a family of kings, just as I did for David. And you will have Israel as your kingdom.
39 I will punish David’s descendants because of what Solomon did, but not forever.’” - 1 Kings 11 vs 30 - 39

The question to ask is did Chemosh of the Moabites win against the God of Israel, or did the God of Israel use the Moabites to inflict on the house of the throne the punishment He promised He would deal against them? If you pay careful attention to the narrative penned down in scripture, after the death of Solomon, not only was Israel divided into two separate Nations, and the throne of David reduced to a fraction of its original self, so also, Israel lost almost all of the territories that were originally under it, including all those indicated in red in verse 33 in the above passage. So, YHWH's declaration against the house of David as a result of Solomon's sin did come through. Only here, you seem to specially think Chemosh is the one the glory ought to have gone to.

Kobojunkie:
But you missed the most important part of the story which is that all those who came after Solomon was already doomed by God of Israel to lose the Kingdom that God had originally allowed David and Solomon after Him to have. You quoted from 1 King 11 but for some reason didn't read to the very end to realize what Solomon's act which you claim was of a loving husband had set in motion as far as Isreal and the line of David was concerned.
The question to ask is did Chemosh of the Moabites win against the God of Israel, or did the God of Israel use the Moabites to inflict on the house of the throne the punishment He promised He would deal against them? If you pay careful attention to the narrative penned down in scripture, after the death of Solomon, not only was Israel divided into two separate Nations, and the throne of David reduced to a fraction of its original self, so also, Israel lost almost all of the territories that were originally under it, including all those indicated in red in verse 33 in the above passage. So, YHWH's declaration against the house of David as a result of Solomon's sin did come through. Only here, you seem to specially think Chemosh is the one the glory ought to have gone to.

Huh? What has the story of the Moabite king who sacrifices his son got to do with David and Solomon who were long since dead?

LordReed:
Huh? What has the story of the Moabite king who sacrifices his son got to do with David and Solomon who were long since dead?

Everything because after the death of Solomon, the tide essentially changed for the house of David and the throne it occupied. The throne lost not just moab but all other territories that was once under it. Basically, for those seeking to claim a win over YHWH, it is more accurate to claim then that Ashtoreth, the goddess of Sidon, Chemosh, the god of Moab; and Milcom, the god of the Ammonites. And so on, all began winning against YHWH after God cast Solomon down for breaking the agreement.

Kobojunkie:
Everything because after the death of Solomon, the tide essentially changed for the house of David and the throne it occupied. The throne lost not just moab but all other territories that was once under it. Basically, for those seeking to claim a win over YHWH, it is more accurate to claim then that Ashtoreth, the goddess of Sidon, Chemosh, the god of Moab; and Milcom, the god of the Ammonites. And so on, all began winning against YHWH after God cast Solomon down for breaking the agreement.

I am not sure I agree that Moab's territory was under Israelite control. Moab was paying tribute yes but that's not the same as having their territory controlled by a foreign power. So in effect this had nothing to do with losing the throne, can't lose what you never had.

LordReed:
I am not sure I agree that Moab's territory was under Israelite control. Moab was paying tribute yes but that's not the same as having their territory controlled by a foreign power. So in effect this had nothing to do with losing the throne, can't lose what you never had.

I am sorry, what?

Isn't even the paying of tribute by one ruler or nation to anther a way of showing obedience to said nation or to obtain peace or protection?

2 Kings 3 vs 4 - 7 explains that the reason the King of Israel went after the Moabites had to do with Moab breaking away from the rule of Israel..

Kobojunkie:
I am sorry, what?

Isn't even the paying of tribute by one ruler or nation to anther a way of showing obedience to said nation or to obtain peace or protection?

2 Kings 3 vs 4 - 7 explains that the reason the King of Israel went after the Moabites had to do with Moab breaking away from the rule of Israel..

I spelt it out clearly, paying tribute is not the same as territory control. More than not it's a reflection of the acknowledgement of the superior military power of the tribute receiver. The fact that Moab still had its own king should let you know they were autonomous.

Verse 4 shows the king of Moab was paying tribute and verse 5 shows that he stopped after Ahab died.

GodIsDead:
)... The worship of this God is called "The Abomination of Moab" and is introduced in Jerusalem... Solomon did what was evil in the Lord’s . 9 The Lord was very angry with Solomon, for his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10 He had warned Solomon specifically about worshiping other gods, but Solomon did not listen to the Lord’s command. 11 So now the Lord said to him, “[b]Since you have not kept my covenant and have disobeyed my decrees, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you[/b ]and give it to one of your servants.[/i]
- 1 Kings 11: 1-11 NLT

You are a plain naked mad man. You admit that The Lord said he would bring down Solomon yet you credit it to a Moab abomination?

As Moab was wiped out forever so shall you be wiped out forever, you African abomination.

LordReed:
I spelt it out clearly, paying tribute is not the same as territory control. More than not it's a reflection of the acknowledgement of the superior military power of the tribute receiver. The fact that Moab still had its own king should let you know they were autonomous.

Verse 4 shows the king of Moab was paying tribute and verse 5 shows that he stopped after Ahab died.

Well, whether it is all about the tribute mentioned in verse 4 or it included that stressed in verse 7 as well which is that Israel ruled over by Israel--- something that is quote possible even when the one ruled over still had a king and an army --- the fact is, Moab was one of the previously conquered territories that Israel lost after God's decree against Solomon for his breaking of the agreement with the House of Jacob.

---

In the same scriptures, Isreal is also written to have ruled over Aram as well. It is written that God even sent one of His prophets to anoint a King over Aram and Aram had an army of its own too.

Kobojunkie:
Well, whether it is all about the tribute mentioned in verse 4 or it included that stressed in verse 7 as well which is that Israel ruled over by Israel--- something that is quote possible even when the one ruled over still had a king and an army --- the fact is, Moab was one of the previously conquered territories that Israel lost after God's decree against Solomon for his breaking of the agreement with the House of Jacob.

---

In the same scriptures, Isreal is also written to have ruled over Aram as well. It is written that God even sent one of His prophets to anoint a King over Aram and Aram had an army of its own too.

Verse 7 doesn't say that.

Where in the Bible does it say Israel ruled over Aram?

LordReed:
Verse 7 doesn't say that.Where in the Bible does it say Israel ruled over Aram?

1. I see you didn't even bother actually reading through the passage.

4 Mesha was the king of Moab. He owned many sheep. He gave the wool of 100,000 lambs and 100,000 rams to the king of Israel.
5 But when Ahab died, the king of Moab broke away from the rule of the king of Israel.
6 Then King Joram went out of Samaria and gathered together all the men of Israel.
7 Joram sent messengers to Jehoshaphat, the king of Judah. Joram said, “The king of Moab has broken away from my rule. Will you go with me to fight against Moab?” Jehoshaphat said, “Yes, I will go with you. We will join together as one army. My people will be like your people, and my horses will be like your horses.” - 2 Kings 3 vs 4 - 7

Kobojunkie:
1. I see you didn't even bother actually reading through the passage.

What version is that cos this is not how the KJV puts it.

4 And Mesha king of Moab was a sheepmaster, and rendered unto the king of Israel an hundred thousand lambs, and an hundred thousand rams, with the wool.

5 But it came to pass, when Ahab was dead, that the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel.

6 And king Jehoram went out of Samaria the same time, and numbered all Israel.

7 And he went and sent to Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, saying, The king of Moab hath rebelled against me: wilt thou go with me against Moab to battle? And he said, I will go up: I am as thou art, my people as thy people, and my horses as thy horses.

Still waiting for where Israel ruled Aram.

LordReed:
■ What version is that cos this is not how the KJV puts it.
Still waiting for where Israel ruled Aram.

1. This isn't rocket science.

4 And Mesha king of Moab was a sheepmaster, and rendered unto the king of Israel an hundred thousand lambs, and an hundred thousand rams, with the wool.
5 But it came to pass, when Ahab was dead, that the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel.
6 And king Jehoram went out of Samaria the same time, and numbered all Israel.
7 And he went and sent to Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, saying, The king of Moab hath rebelled against me: wilt thou go with me against Moab to battle? And he said, I will go up: I am as thou art, my people as thy people, and my horses as thy horses. - 2 Kings 3 vs 4 - 7

Rebellions are typically against what? An authority i.e. one who rules over one.

reb·el

1. a person who rises in opposition or armed resistance against an established government or ruler.
2. rise in opposition or armed resistance to an established government or ruler.

Kobojunkie:
1. This isn't rocket science.
Rebellions are typically against what? An authority i.e. one who rules over one.

I asked what version you used.

And what else you call stopping a tribute? Of course it's a rebellion.

Meanwhile still waiting for where in the Bible it says Israel ruled Aram. You brought it up I dunno why you suddenly reluctant to provide the passage.