God1000:
the west will rebuild Ukraine when the war is over, Russia on the other hand will suffer immensely from economic sanctions for decades

Yeah in same way the have rebuild Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq

RedScorpion:


See this Mad Slowpoke

Your Pronouncements falls Upon your head and the heads of remaining family members.

It will manifest with speed in your useless life and the worthless life of your family members.

Rubbish

Ase ase !

olas24u:


Ase ase !

Repeat that

word for word to your family members

And look yourself in the mirror and repeat it to yourself...

You Mad beast that would die untimely..

God1000:
what about countries like Finland, Sweden, etc that didn't join NATO, is America threatening them with sanctions

What about them

baralatie:

If I was president of Ukraine!
I would not even allow Russia come to this point of war with Ukraine!
I already understand that the core issue is a NaTo clause in ukraines constitution.
I would have started with that Minsk 2 agreement.
Ensured I got a swap deal of removing that NATO from Ukraine to joining the EU on economic grounds
Pursue a laid down economic growth plan for all of Ukraine wether you are west or east
And with agreement with Russia allowed the states of Donetsk and lohansk have an autonomous working government but under Ukraine territory and control.


Tell me with the above will the war come from

Which polls are we talking about?
Zelensky declared martial law and the people got stuck with fighting by force wether you like it or not

An action that means Ukraine lost the whole of the eastern ukraine

Everyone knows that the US is majorly behind the war to weaken Russia.

Even when Europe where telling Zelensky to cooldown, US keep pushing.

RedScorpion:


Repeat that

word for word to your family members

And look yourself in the mirror and repeat it to yourself...

You Mad beast that would die untimely..

We do not use orisa to do bad things. Everything you have written is for yourself.

baralatie:

If I was president of Ukraine!
I would not even allow Russia come to this point of war with Ukraine!
I already understand that the core issue is a NaTo clause in ukraines constitution.
I would have started with that Minsk 2 agreement.
Ensured I got a swap deal of removing that NATO from Ukraine to joining the EU on economic grounds
Pursue a laid down economic growth plan for all of Ukraine wether you are west or east
And with agreement with Russia allowed the states of Donetsk and lohansk have an autonomous working government but under Ukraine territory and control.


Tell me with the above will the war come from

Which polls are we talking about?
Zelensky declared martial law and the people got stuck with fighting by force wether you like it or not

An action that means Ukraine lost the whole of the eastern ukraine

Therein lies the issue. You ARE gullible and woefully uninformed.

Zelensky became President of Ukraine in 2019. By that time, Russia had already annexed Crimea, stealing it by force from an unprepared Ukraine in 2014. and in that same 2014, Russia had already triggered a civil war in Donetsk and Luhansk, with both regions forming breakaway republics. So i'm not sure why you'd go cap in hand to beg Russia who were already illegally occupying Ukrainian territory.

Imagine saying you'd go to Russia to get permission to allow the two territories to be autonomous, but under the Ukrainian umbrella. That's pretty much what Minsk II specified, but by 2018 it had already been violated multiple times and fighting was still ongoing.

But worse still is your sheer gullibility in falling for the Russian pretext that the war was about NATO. How can it be, when Russia already knew Ukraine wasn't going to be allowed into NATO? Between wariness of a russian response, the fact that NATO would never admit a member state that was under internal unrest/civil war and the opposition of France, Germany, Italy and the US to Ukraine joining, there's no way that Ukraine's application would have been accepted. And Putin knew this.

This war, this senseless conflict is all because - right from start - the russians have always considered Ukraine to be a 'fake' country. It has long been Putin's dream to reunite an imperial Russia with Russia, Belarus and Ukraine in one country. Russian literature and hardline philosophy has long called for the annexation of Ukraine.

You should read about Dugin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin. Putin and multiple members of the Russian leadership are fans of that philosophy. You should also check out statements made by the Orthodox patriarch of Moscow where he called for the annexation of Ukraine and even the baltic states.

Putin's calculations were driven by age (he's 69 and thus is running out of time to fulfil his dream), military briefings from his aides who convinced him that Kyiv would fall within days and the belief that Biden was a weak president who would be too distracted by internal US political wrangling to interfere.
As we've seen now, his decision to go to war has been a catastrophe for Ukraine, but also Russia. With approx 20000 killed, thousands of vehicles destroyed, economic sanctions beginning to bite, failed military campaigns a significant loss of prestige for Russia and the fact that they're drifting into China's sphere of influence.

Don't let anyone deceive you that this has anything to do with NATO. It doesn't at all. Because, thanks to Russia's 6500 nuclear warheads, nobody is going to invade Russia. Even North Korea with a handful of nukes are completely safe from invasion talk less of Russia.

olas24u:


We do not use orisa to do bad things. Everything you have written is for yourself.

Shut up.

Do your worst.

You claim to know how to swear, Go ahead and let's see who would fall.

Mad dirty thing.

texazzpete:


Therein lies the issue. You ARE gullible and woefully uninformed.

Zelensky became President of Ukraine in 2019. By that time, Russia had already annexed Crimea, stealing it by force from an unprepared Ukraine in 2014. and in that same 2014, Russia had already triggered a civil war in Donetsk and Luhansk, with both regions forming breakaway republics. So i'm not sure why you'd go cap in hand to beg Russia who were already illegally occupying Ukrainian territory.

Imagine saying you'd go to Russia to get permission to allow the two territories to be autonomous, but under the Ukrainian umbrella. That's pretty much what Minsk II specified, but by 2018 it had already been violated multiple times and fighting was still ongoing.

But worse still is your sheer gullibility in falling for the Russian pretext that the war was about NATO. How can it be, when Russia already knew Ukraine wasn't going to be allowed into NATO? Between wariness of a russian response, the fact that NATO would never admit a member state that was under internal unrest/civil war and the opposition of France, Germany, Italy and the US to Ukraine joining, there's no way that Ukraine's application would have been accepted. And Putin knew this.

This war, this senseless conflict is all because - right from start - the russians have always considered Ukraine to be a 'fake' country. It has long been Putin's dream to reunite an imperial Russia with Russia, Belarus and Ukraine in one country. Russian literature and hardline philosophy has long called for the annexation of Ukraine.

You should read about Dugin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin. Putin and multiple members of the Russian leadership are fans of that philosophy. You should also check out statements made by the Orthodox patriarch of Moscow where he called for the annexation of Ukraine and even the baltic states.

Putin's calculations were driven by age (he's 69 and thus is running out of time to fulfil his dream), military briefings from his aides who convinced him that Kyiv would fall within days and the belief that Biden was a weak president who would be too distracted by internal US political wrangling to interfere.
As we've seen now, his decision to go to war has been a catastrophe for Ukraine, but also Russia. With approx 20000 killed, thousands of vehicles destroyed, economic sanctions beginning to bite, failed military campaigns a significant loss of prestige for Russia and the fact that they're drifting into China's sphere of influence.

Don't let anyone deceive you that this has anything to do with NATO. It doesn't at all. Because, thanks to Russia's 6500 nuclear warheads, nobody is going to invade Russia. Even North Korea with a handful of nukes are completely safe from invasion talk less of Russia.

Abeg see Better Person.

May God Bless You for this your write up.

At least I have learnt something today about NATO membership requirements from this your post.

I kept wondering why that in almost all the Eastern European countries, there are Russian backed Separatists and regions.

I understand now from your post above.

As long as Russia keeps fomenting trouble and internal conflicts in Eastern European countries, they don't see NATO (Their biggest nightmare) coming close.

Watch out :

Very soon you will hear of Russian backed Separatists and regions in Finland and Sweden . They may even be there now. I have to check online

The wicked Putin is now setting his eyes on poor Moldavia. Poor Moldavia oo

There were gunshots and explosion today in Transnistria...... (The breakaway Russian backed region)

Very soon he would tell the world that the Moldovan government is killing the Russian speaking population there.

So he is going for another "Special War Crimes Operation" in Moldavia.

This whole campaign is about the resurrection of the old Soviet Union..... But their plan is dead on arrival.

We saw it from the Onset.

texazzpete:


Therein lies the issue. You ARE gullible and woefully uninformed.

Indeed, it is amazing how you carefully started your narrations from the events of 2014. How you careful forgot how the west overthrew a democratically elected government of yanukovich simply because he was pro Russia, something undeniable with Victoria nuland and co caught on camera distributing cookies. Amazing how you also forgot how they ensured he was replaced with a pro western poroshenko who immediately got to amend the constitution of Ukraine to include NATO ascension as a constitutional goal. Ukraine already applied for NATO membership since 2008, but infusing it into the constitution makes it lawful path to every Ukrainian government. You failed to see how this eventually forced Russia into a military confrontation which resulted in the Crimean annexation and the Donbass stalemate. How you conveniently forgot how Minsk 1 & 2 were negotiated to finally bring about peace to the Donbass and effectively stop Ukrainian nato ascension. How you conveniently forgot that zelensky won his election on two mantra; 1) fight corruption, 2) peace in Donbass. So tell me, what changed, the moment he assumed the presidency, he all of a sudden made a U turn, he no longer wanted Minsk 2, why? With Minsk 2, NATO ascension is dead because the Donbass being autonomous would veto it. The question I want you to answer is why was zelensky so adamant on killing Minsk 2. Why was it impossible for both Germany and France to convince him to implement it. The answer is found in the man behind the mask. If NATO had no hidden agenda like you want to portray, why were the two draft treaties, one to NATO, one to the US arrogantly rebuffed? Of course I know you cannot answer honestly, but you want to make it appear as Russia was not patient, was not diplomatic enough. All the way from 2008 to 2022, a whole 12 years in negotiations and maneuvering. If NATO was a constitutional assignment for Ukraine having officially tendered a bid, what would you have the Russian leadership do? Fold their arms and hope that NATO rejects the ascension of Ukraine? And if someday NATO accept Ukraine, it becomes fait acompli as going against it would be going against a 31 nation alliance, having been effectively encircled. I know you are pro US, sometimes, be objective and drop the hypocrisy, look at what is currently happening in the Solomon Islands, that too is a sovereign nation been threatened for making a sovereign decision.

I agree that with nukes and an efficient triad with the assurance of a second strike capability, no nation would invade Russia militarily, but why should thesame US be worried about Soviet missiles in Cuba when it has nukes too, an effective triad and the assurance of a second strike?

What you did was speak half truths. Another name for half truth is no truth or outright lies.

texazzpete:


Therein lies the issue. You ARE gullible and woefully uninformed.

Zelensky became President of Ukraine in 2019. By that time, Russia had already annexed Crimea, stealing it by force from an unprepared Ukraine in 2014. and in that same 2014, Russia had already triggered a civil war in Donetsk and Luhansk, with both regions forming breakaway republics. So i'm not sure why you'd go cap in hand to beg Russia who were already illegally occupying Ukrainian territory.

Imagine saying you'd go to Russia to get permission to allow the two territories to be autonomous, but under the Ukrainian umbrella. That's pretty much what Minsk II specified, but by 2018 it had already been violated multiple times and fighting was still ongoing.

But worse still is your sheer gullibility in falling for the Russian pretext that the war was about NATO. How can it be, when Russia already knew Ukraine wasn't going to be allowed into NATO? Between wariness of a russian response, the fact that NATO would never admit a member state that was under internal unrest/civil war and the opposition of France, Germany, Italy and the US to Ukraine joining, there's no way that Ukraine's application would have been accepted. And Putin knew this.

This war, this senseless conflict is all because - right from start - the russians have always considered Ukraine to be a 'fake' country. It has long been Putin's dream to reunite an imperial Russia with Russia, Belarus and Ukraine in one country. Russian literature and hardline philosophy has long called for the annexation of Ukraine.

You should read about Dugin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin. Putin and multiple members of the Russian leadership are fans of that philosophy. You should also check out statements made by the Orthodox patriarch of Moscow where he called for the annexation of Ukraine and even the baltic states.

Putin's calculations were driven by age (he's 69 and thus is running out of time to fulfil his dream), military briefings from his aides who convinced him that Kyiv would fall within days and the belief that Biden was a weak president who would be too distracted by internal US political wrangling to interfere.
As we've seen now, his decision to go to war has been a catastrophe for Ukraine, but also Russia. With approx 20000 killed, thousands of vehicles destroyed, economic sanctions beginning to bite, failed military campaigns a significant loss of prestige for Russia and the fact that they're drifting into China's sphere of influence.

Don't let anyone deceive you that this has anything to do with NATO. It doesn't at all. Because, thanks to Russia's 6500 nuclear warheads, nobody is going to invade Russia. Even North Korea with a handful of nukes are completely safe from invasion talk less of Russia.

Putin in a nutshell

God1000:
Please answer this question, why are these countries running towards America for protection instead of China and Russia? Is America forcing them to join NATO and other US military alliances?

I see this as Envy

because of fear. Because of forced bribe USA gives.

I

texazzpete:


Therein lies the issue. You ARE gullible and woefully uninformed.

Zelensky became President of Ukraine in 2019. By that time, Russia had already annexed Crimea, stealing it by force from an unprepared Ukraine in 2014. and in that same 2014, Russia had already triggered a civil war in Donetsk and Luhansk, with both regions forming breakaway republics. So i'm not sure why you'd go cap in hand to beg Russia who were already illegally occupying Ukrainian territory.

Imagine saying you'd go to Russia to get permission to allow the two territories to be autonomous, but under the Ukrainian umbrella. That's pretty much what Minsk II specified, but by 2018 it had already been violated multiple times and fighting was still ongoing.

But worse still is your sheer gullibility in falling for the Russian pretext that the war was about NATO. How can it be, when Russia already knew Ukraine wasn't going to be allowed into NATO? Between wariness of a russian response, the fact that NATO would never admit a member state that was under internal unrest/civil war and the opposition of France, Germany, Italy and the US to Ukraine joining, there's no way that Ukraine's application would have been accepted. And Putin knew this.

This war, this senseless conflict is all because - right from start - the russians have always considered Ukraine to be a 'fake' country. It has long been Putin's dream to reunite an imperial Russia with Russia, Belarus and Ukraine in one country. Russian literature and hardline philosophy has long called for the annexation of Ukraine.

You should read about Dugin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin. Putin and multiple members of the Russian leadership are fans of that philosophy. You should also check out statements made by the Orthodox patriarch of Moscow where he called for the annexation of Ukraine and even the baltic states.

Putin's calculations were driven by age (he's 69 and thus is running out of time to fulfil his dream), military briefings from his aides who convinced him that Kyiv would fall within days and the belief that Biden was a weak president who would be too distracted by internal US political wrangling to interfere.
As we've seen now, his decision to go to war has been a catastrophe for Ukraine, but also Russia. With approx 20000 killed, thousands of vehicles destroyed, economic sanctions beginning to bite, failed military campaigns a significant loss of prestige for Russia and the fact that they're drifting into China's sphere of influence.

Don't let anyone deceive you that this has anything to do with NATO. It doesn't at all. Because, thanks to Russia's 6500 nuclear warheads, nobody is going to invade Russia. Even North Korea with a handful of nukes are completely safe from invasion talk less of Russia.

what do you know about the Minsk 2 agreement brokered by France and Germany



Then you can recorrect yourself

baralatie:
I
what do you know about the Minsk 2 agreement brokered by France and Germany



Then you can recorrect yourself

He will come back and tell you, their is no written Minsk 2 agreement

RedScorpion:


Shut up.

Do your worst.

You claim to know how to swear, Go ahead and let's see who would fall.

Mad dirty thing.

Oloribu!

skoskosko:

Indeed, it is amazing how you carefully started your narrations from the events of 2014. How you careful forgot how the west overthrew a democratically elected government of yanukovich simply because he was pro Russia, something undeniable with Victoria nuland and co caught on camera distributing cookies. Amazing how you also forgot how they ensured he was replaced with a pro western poroshenko who immediately got to amend the constitution of Ukraine to include NATO ascension as a constitutional goal. Ukraine already applied for NATO membership since 2008, but infusing it into the constitution makes it lawful path to every Ukrainian government. You failed to see how this eventually forced Russia into a military confrontation which resulted in the Crimean annexation and the Donbass stalemate. How you conveniently forgot how Minsk 1 & 2 were negotiated to finally bring about peace to the Donbass and effectively stop Ukrainian nato ascension. How you conveniently forgot that zelensky won his election on two mantra; 1) fight corruption, 2) peace in Donbass. So tell me, what changed, the moment he assumed the presidency, he all of a sudden made a U turn, he no longer wanted Minsk 2, why? With Minsk 2, NATO ascension is dead because the Donbass being autonomous would veto it. The question I want you to answer is why was zelensky so adamant on killing Minsk 2. Why was it impossible for both Germany and France to convince him to implement it. The answer is found in the man behind the mask. If NATO had no hidden agenda like you want to portray, why were the two draft treaties, one to NATO, one to the US arrogantly rebuffed? Of course I know you cannot answer honestly, but you want to make it appear as Russia was not patient, was not diplomatic enough. All the way from 2008 to 2022, a whole 12 years in negotiations and maneuvering. If NATO was a constitutional assignment for Ukraine having officially tendered a bid, what would you have the Russian leadership do? Fold their arms and hope that NATO rejects the ascension of Ukraine? And if someday NATO accept Ukraine, it becomes fait acompli as going against it would be going against a 31 nation alliance, having been effectively encircled. I know you are pro US, sometimes, be objective and drop the hypocrisy, look at what is currently happening in the Solomon Islands, that too is a sovereign nation been threatened for making a sovereign decision.

I agree that with nukes and an efficient triad with the assurance of a second strike capability, no nation would invade Russia militarily, but why should thesame US be worried about Soviet missiles in Cuba when it has nukes too, an effective triad and the assurance of a second strike?

Bros,

Permit me to make some points.

If you believe that I am wrong, correct me because we learn everyday.

1 - it was not the West that forced out Mr. Yanukovych.

it was his failure to listen to the Ukrainian people's desire for him to sign a formal association agreement with the European Union rather than try to join NATO.

His people wanted closer ties with the European Union, he wanted closer ties with Russia. That was where the problem came from.

Mr. Putin pressured Mr. Yanukovych to reject the agreement, which led to the Euromaidan protests starting in 2013 that eventually ousted Mr. Yanukovych

A leader that would not listen to the aspirations of the majority of the people is not fit for office.

Let me use Nigeria as an example.

Would you say that it was Obama and Cameron that ousted Goodluck Jonathan ?

No..... A majority of Nigerians kicked him out of office with their PVC when nationwide protests against his administration failed to oust him.

Even though Obama and Cameron were known critics of the Jonathan administration, it would be wrong to accuse them of ousting Jonathan.

Nigerians in 2014 - 2015 swallowed the CHANGE mantra...

The APC even hired David Axerold's AKPD Message and Media firm. This firm had known ties with the Obama administration and campaign.

But it was Nigerians and their desire for Change that defeated Jonathan not the West.

Mr. Yanukovych decided to run to Russia without waiting to loose the next election. (Because he would have lost Woefully)

Maybe because of fear for his life, which is understandable. Because the protest became violent and they were demanding his resignation.

But blaming the West is a No No.

If your people want to align themselves to Europe, why resist and stand against their dreams because you are a Russian puppet ?

2 - On the Issue of Ukrainian NATO Ascension...

It is not as easy as it may seem because Ukraine does not currently meet the criteria for joining the Alliance.

In 2008, President George W. Bush pushed NATO to issue a declaration that Ukraine and Georgia would become members in the future despite reservations from U.S. intelligence agencies.

However, the alliance has never offered either country a formal action plan to join, a necessary step for them to do so.


A - Ukraine must improve its political and legal systems before they can be accepted by NATO.

President Biden on his 2014 visit to Ukraine. called on Ukrainian leaders in their house of parliament to fight the cancer of corruption that is endemic in their system.

In a 2020 analysis, Transparency International, an anti-corruption watchdog, ranked Ukraine 117th out of 180 countries on its corruption index, lower than any NATO nation.

B - NATO (especially the European member countries) wants to avoid greater Russian hostility.

If Ukraine were to join NATO or even giving the green light to join, Russia could also impose other costs on Europe, such as withholding gas exports.

And Germany and many other NATO nations prefer to choose their battles with Russia, given its proximity and Mr. Putin’s aggressive nature. They know he and other Russian officials are obsessed with Ukraine.

Given all that, Ukraine would almost certainly be unable to meet the third main criterion to join NATO.

C - Approval from all 30 members.

Currently this is not possible for Ukraine because Victor Orban's Hungary would block any move for Ukraine to join NATO.

Victor Orban is a staunch ally of the Kremlin.

The principal objection would be: Does such a move actually contribute to the stability in Europe, or would it contribute to destabilization ?

I think it’s indisputable there wouldn’t be consensus among the 30 members, even though all allies agree that Ukraine has the right to aspire to become a NATO member.

So as it stands, Ukraine cannot join NATO..

Ukraine's NATO membership aspirations is not the issue.... They have got no shot at it and Russia is clearly aware of this fact.

Russia is only using the NATO issue as a pretext for an invasion in a Bid to Resurrect the old Soviet Union.

Putin have publicly decried the fall of the Soviet Union and he would like to restore it .

RedScorpion:



1 - it was not the West that forced out Mr. Yanukovych.

1) It has been proven beyond doubts that the US orchestrated the maidan protests. There are lives videos available on the internet of their officials on the maidan square instigating and handing out cookies. The GEJ case you sighted does not hold water. Jonathan was not forced out of office, he lost out in a democratic election. Yanukovich was forced out while into his valid tenure. Do you think the US or any western nation would tolerate a foreign government live on its territories urging on protesters? It seems people don’t judge by thesame standards. Again, the deal Moscow gave yanukovich was superior to the EU deal as it entails the cheapest of gas plus the bailout of the economy by up to $15b. This was pure business politics, does that give the US the right to orchestrate the undemocratic removal of a government? Why not do it through the ballot. This same underhand tactics has been the US government handbook tactics which no one takes seriously again. When they instigate unrest, they tag them freedom fighters, when the unrest is against them, they are tagged terrorists. Do you know that if there is a riot in the US and the delegates of a foreign country are found on the protest ground, the US will declare war? Do you know that the US considers mere statements in favour of its opposition as interference in its affairs and it can lead to sanctions and severance of ties?

2) I also hope you realize that Ukraine is divided along ethnic lines into eastern Ukraine(Russian speakers and pro kremlin) and western Ukraine(pro west). And these two blocks share a different view of what their political future should be or be aligned with. Yanukovich was from the east, and what western Ukraine wish for cannot be a true test of what Ukrainians wanted, reason it was easy for the Donbass and Crimeans to align with Russia and declare war. If the easterners were in tandem with the west, military operations would have failed woefully.

3)NATO ascension; while the steps to full membership you enumerated are true, you however failed to realize that membership proposals haven been submitting since 2008 was formally indoctrinated into the Ukrainian constitution by poroshenko. The custodian of the constitution is the president, making it a constitutional obligation for any other president. For how long before they meet the requirements or for how long before the US arm twists the dissenting voices? It was only a matter of time because in NATO, the US is the senior partner and NATO is a tool of its foreign policy power projection.

However, you seemed to dodge the obvious questions, if NATO or rather the US had no hidden agenda? Why did zelensky tear up Minsk 2 and frustrate its implementation if peace was his goal, since Minsk 2 would have guaranteed peace and settled the NATO question? Why did NATO and the US rebuff security proposals from Moscow? Do you just expect Moscow to sit back idly and hope against hope by putting its faith on the hope that Ukraine’s ascension continues to meet set backs? So what happens if it gets ambushed and accepted on a subsequent submit, what becomes Moscow’s fate? Do you genuinely believe that 2008 to 2014 to 2022 was not enough for maneuvers and diplomacy? Do you genuinely believe Moscow was not diplomatic enough? To what end today is NATO’s eastward expansion? Do not tell me about article 5, NATO has never gone to war due to article 5, in all its wars, it was the aggressor/invading force. Should Moscow fold its arms and watch a notorious force known for aggression completely encircle it?

baralatie:
I
what do you know about the Minsk 2 agreement brokered by France and Germany



Then you can recorrect yourself

If you don’t know anything about that agreement, go and read Wikipedia. Don’t deflect.

skoskosko:

1) It has been proven beyond doubts that the US orchestrated the maidan protests. There are lives videos available on the internet of their officials on the maidan square instigating and handing out cookies. The GEJ case you sighted does not hold water. Jonathan was not forced out of office, he lost out in a democratic election. Yanukovich was forced out while into his valid tenure. Do you think the US or any western nation would tolerate a foreign government live on its territories urging on protesters? It seems people don’t judge by thesame standards. Again, the deal Moscow gave yanukovich was superior to the EU deal as it entails the cheapest of gas plus the bailout of the economy by up to $15b. This was pure business politics, does that give the US the right to orchestrate the undemocratic removal of a government? Why not do it through the ballot. This same underhand tactics has been the US government handbook tactics which no one takes seriously again. When they instigate unrest, they tag them freedom fighters, when the unrest is against them, they are tagged terrorists. Do you know that if there is a riot in the US and the delegates of a foreign country are found on the protest ground, the US will declare war? Do you know that the US considers mere statements in favour of its opposition as interference in its affairs and it can lead to sanctions and severance of ties?

2) I also hope you realize that Ukraine is divided along ethnic lines into eastern Ukraine(Russian speakers and pro kremlin) and western Ukraine(pro west). And these two blocks share a different view of what their political future should be or be aligned with. Yanukovich was from the east, and what western Ukraine wish for cannot be a true test of what Ukrainians wanted, reason it was easy for the Donbass and Crimeans to align with Russia and declare war. If the easterners were in tandem with the west, military operations would have failed woefully.

3)NATO ascension; while the steps to full membership you enumerated are true, you however failed to realize that membership proposals haven been submitting since 2008 was formally indoctrinated into the Ukrainian constitution by poroshenko. The custodian of the constitution is the president, making it a constitutional obligation for any other president. For how long before they meet the requirements or for how long before the US arm twists the dissenting voices? It was only a matter of time because in NATO, the US is the senior partner and NATO is a tool of its foreign policy power projection.

However, you seemed to dodge the obvious questions, if NATO or rather the US had no hidden agenda? Why did zelensky tear up Minsk 2 and frustrate its implementation if peace was his goal, since Minsk 2 would have guaranteed peace and settled the NATO question? Why did NATO and the US rebuff security proposals from Moscow? Do you just expect Moscow to sit back idly and hope against hope by putting its faith on the hope that Ukraine’s ascension continues to meet set backs? So what happens if it gets ambushed and accepted on a subsequent submit, what becomes Moscow’s fate? Do you genuinely believe that 2008 to 2014 to 2022 was not enough for maneuvers and diplomacy? Do you genuinely believe Moscow was not diplomatic enough? To what end today is NATO’s eastward expansion? Do not tell me about article 5, NATO has never gone to war due to article 5, in all its wars, it was the aggressor/invading force. Should Moscow fold its arms and watch a notorious force known for aggression completely encircle it?

Entire post filled with bottom barrel Russian propaganda.
Was it the US that forced Yanukovych to campaign with the manifesto of integrating Ukraine with the EU, only to renege when he got power? Was it the US that made him crack down violently on protesters, inflaming tensions?

Yanukovych was removed by the duly elected parliament, a body constitutionally empowered to do so. Who told you in a democracy that the ballot is the only way to remove a flagging leader? Because you’re in Nigeria where impeachment isnt a viable option thanks to ethnic bias and cash incentives?

The myth of western orchestration of the euromaidan movement is pushed heavily by Russia because Putin absolutely does not want his people to believe that people can spontaneously revolt against duplicitous leaders.

It’s even weird you’re pushing this propaganda piece because Russia themselves directly interfered in the US elections!

The rest of your post is filled with ignorant and misinformed babble. You say the US would have twisted others arms to accept Ukraine into NATO. This is laughable. First of all, Biden himself has been opposed to Ukraine joining at this point, and a Republican president would never have agreed. Secondly, the US vote needs to be ratified by Congress, and congress would also have rejected it…all republicans and multiple democrats like Sanders are opposed. And while the US is the big dog in NATO, member admission still requires acceptance by the likes of Germany, France and Italy who are opposed, and who cannot be ‘arm twisted’.

Imagine claiming that Zelensky that came on board in 2019 was the one that frustrated the implementation of the Minsk 2 agreement that was signed in 2014. By the time Zelensky became president, there had been thousands of violations of Minsk, and fighting was ongoing.


Imagine claiming Moscow was ‘diplomatic enough’ when they continue to occupy Crimea that they annexed and continued to arm and train separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk.


Ask yourself why NATO is ‘expanding’. It’s because countries are terrified of Russian aggression, like they did in Georgia, Chechnya and Moldova. Because these states know that it’s a fundamental part of Russian doctrine for many that annexation of these states is inevitable. It’s like blaming communities that suffer herdsmen attack for seeking to arm themselves.

You can see this in the aftermath of this senseless invasion, now Finland and Sweden are planning to join NATO within months. Will you now say it is ‘NATO expansion’, when Finland and Sweden that have refused to join NATO for decades are now clamoring to join?

Stop swallowing Russian propaganda!!

texazzpete:


If you don’t know anything about that agreement, go and read Wikipedia. Don’t deflect.

Meaning that you read that Minsk 2 agreement which Ukraine threw out o the window


Like I said zelensky literally lead the Ukraine into an unnecessary war

The whole east and now south is gone for good

baralatie:

Meaning that you read that Minsk 2 agreement which Ukraine threw out o the window


Like I said zelensky literally lead the Ukraine into an unnecessary war

The whole east and now south is gone for good

E say na “the whole East”

You didn’t say anything that involved any critical
Or personal thought. All you’ve done is regurgitate Russian propaganda.

Someone whose country was invaded is the one being accused of ‘leading his country into war’

Wonders shall never cease.

texazzpete:



E say na “the whole East”

You didn’t say anything that involved any critical
Or personal thought. All you’ve done is regurgitate Russian propaganda.

Someone whose country was invaded is the one being accused of ‘leading his country into war’

Wonders shall never cease.

Go update your Google map again!
Wether I am zelensky that could not negotiate Ukraine properly with Russia without going to war? Abi I am zelensky who was braving to Putin that if it is war it is war.

texazzpete:

My dear, no matter how much, you trumpet a lie, it will never become true! To dismiss your first lie, Yanukovich fled Ukraine due to threat to life and the fact the western backed and fueled protests against his government had taken a turn for the worse despite promises of early elections, with him gone, the parliament had to vote an end to his government, he was not impeached by parliament. I attached shots below. Again, unlike your lies, in a presidential democratic setting, a government can only be forced out through ballot or impeachment and incapacitation/death.

I seem to be lost, when did Biden oppose Ukrainian ascension? Thesame administration that arrogantly threw away the draft proposals from Russia and said it was a no go area and what they have is open door policy? So in your mind, Russia should fold its arms and hope that at least one member will always keep saying no to Ukraine? Or just keep faith that the US congress never ratifies it? And what happens the day it finally does? Or did the new members not also encounter oppositions before they finally became members?

So by your assessments, it was Russian propaganda that mysteriously dragged Victoria nuland from Washington to maidan square to urge protesters on? Oya give us more lies, how exactly did Russia interfere directly in the US election like you said? Did they openly campaign for trump? Did they openly tell US voters not to vote Clinton? Did they manipulate the result figures? Did they post advertorials in favour of trump? Did their diplomats stage open campaigns in the US, remember you said they directly interfered.

Go back and read, Minsk 2 was not signed in 2014, but 2015. It was a process which had already begun before zelensky came on board albeit slow with firstly the withdrawal of heavy armor from the front line which was already done. Zelensky promised to do everything it took to ensure the peace returned. The question you seem to always dodge is what changed? Why did he suddenly find the deal not good enough? Was Germany and France not part of the deal? How come they found it extremely difficult to have zelensky implement it? The question is what changed?

So Moscow was not diplomatic enough by your double standards from 200& to 2014 despite counter offers in other to make Ukraine abandon NATO ascension, the people you are defending are currently disgracing you in the Solomon Islands, because when we mention Cuba, your likes says it’s already past and we should move on.

Lastly, how can you reask the question I asked, what is the purpose for NATO eastwards expansions, your lies don’t hold water that Russia invaded Georgia and chenchenya. NATO is the force that has invaded most countries unilaterally worldwide and in most cases without UN backing, just at the behest of the US. Chenchenya incase you forgot is in Russia, so it was a civil war. Georgia aspired to join NATO, same thing Ukraine is doing.

Finland and Sweden? Lol, that’s international politics at work, it means no matter how hard you try, the US will not stop, and the wars will go on. But this is the disappointment, no matter how much you wish for it, Ukraine will never join NATO. How you could not juxtapose the US situations of Cuba and Solomon but fault Russia is amazing indeed.

You should be the one to rather stop swallowing western lies. Stop shouting propaganda, if you have facts, show it. Saying Russian propaganda does not make you correct.
We can all see their hypocrisy, not just in Ukraine, in the Solomon Islands, Cuba, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Vietnam, all of the south China seas, the whole Middle East etc.

RedScorpion:


Abeg see Better Person.

May God Bless You for this your write up.

At least I have learnt something today about NATO membership requirements from this your post.

I kept wondering why that in almost all the Eastern European countries, there are Russian backed Separatists and regions.

I understand now from your post above.

As long as Russia keeps fomenting trouble and internal conflicts in Eastern European countries, they don't see NATO (Their biggest nightmare) coming close.

Watch out :

Very soon you will hear of Russian backed Separatists and regions in Finland and Sweden . They may even be there now. I have to check online

The wicked Putin is now setting his eyes on poor Moldavia. Poor Moldavia oo

There were gunshots and explosion today in Transnistria...... (The breakaway Russian backed region)

Very soon he would tell the world that the Moldovan government is killing the Russian speaking population there.

So he is going for another "Special War Crimes Operation" in Moldavia.

This whole campaign is about the resurrection of the old Soviet Union..... But their plan is dead on arrival.

We saw it from the Onset.

Oga, Ukraine was the people who strike Moldova not Russia

God1000:
how are they being forced? There's freedom of association

so there is freedom of association then tell me why US is flying f35 to Serbia border because they buy Chinese missile defense system, they haven't done before until they buy the system, isn't that bully and why are they threaten war to occupy a sovereign solomon island because they sign military pact with China. where is the freedom of association answer this

That's true, there are no winners, and I still don't understand the point of this war. It's pretty obvious that citizens didn't want this war to happen, and I'm talking about both Russians and Ukrainians. Obviously, Ukraine is losing more than everyone, and that's why there are many organizations and companies like goodevas that provide humanitarian kits or support this country financially. Hopefully, everything will be over soon because this war just doesn't make sense.