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Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by Joshthefirst(m): 9:43am On Aug 14, 2022
Wilgrea7:


That's what I'm trying to find.



Throughout this platform... I've been called an atheist countless times.. I've never bothered to call myself one.. because when it comes to the existence of a god.. i really sincerely don't know.

I never said that a god DOES NOT or CANNOT exist. Even the word “God" is something i often tell theists to define before we start discussing about it's existence.

I don't know.. and i don't claim to know. The theist is the one that claims to know what a god is, and claims to know that it exists. That's why the burden of proof lies on them.

I cannot prove a negative.. especially when I don't even know what i am supposed to be disproving.
I will do my best not to judge you by the statements of your past then.

It is true that atheists deny the existence of God, and if one claims to be an atheist then the person makes the assertion that God does not exist, meaning the person must know what He is denying.

You sound agnostic.

This is the summary:
God is the highest and most perfect conceivable being. God is the embodiment of truth and reality. I will go as far as the end in saying that God is Jesus Christ

God is a necessary existence, not one you can comfortably claim to not know about His existence.

Take this very simple argument if you are truly looking for truth:

Everything that began to exist has a cause, the universe began to exist, therefore the universe has a cause. This cause is God. God is the root cause of reality and the creator of all things


The fact that there is something instead of nothing is sufficient proof of God. This should convert you from an agnostic to a theist, or a deist at least. God is so obvious, as the very nature of logic and reality and truth are rooted in His existence. I want to logically punish you for claiming not to know, but I choose to accept your claim of sincerity for now.
Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by Templee333(m): 3:54pm On Aug 14, 2022
Now to all those who believe that heaven & hell are real places, what if I choose not to believe in ur hell? Will u force me to believe it? I challenge any believer here to force me through the power of prayers to believe in ur hell b4 sunrise 2morow.
Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by Wilgrea7(m): 7:09pm On Aug 14, 2022
Joshthefirst:
I will do my best not to judge you by the statements of your past then.

Thanks

This is the summary:

I appreciate the fact that you decided to define what God is before we begin the discussion around its existence. Now.. moving on.

God is the highest and most perfect conceivable being.


I understand the idea of the highest possible being. But perfection is where you lost me.

Perfection is often an arbitrary concept.. because it seems somewhat subject to an individual's concept of what perfect should be.

That being said, in what context would you define perfection?

God is the embodiment of truth and reality.

What exactly does this mean? To embody truth and reality? Also... How do these traits relate to the physical world we observe today?

I will go as far as the end in saying that God is Jesus Christ

I'll leave this one out for now.. because it's neither a physical attribute or a mental trait... and therefore.. falls short of being a worthy definition of what God is.

God is a necessary existence, not one you can comfortably claim to not know about His existence.

Take this very simple argument if you are truly looking for truth:

Everything that began to exist has a cause, the universe began to exist, therefore the universe has a cause. This cause is God. God is the root cause of reality and the creator of all things

The Kalam cosmological argument.. wonderful. I agree that the universe had a cause. What the cause is, is what I'm trying to find out. The agent behind the cause.. is what you refer to as God. The reason I'm still skeptical.. or a bit slow to accept that conclusion...is because a lot about the nature of the cause of the universe... or rather.. the nature of the agent/agents behind the first cause is still widely unknown to us.

To me, the assumption that the first cause, or rather the reason for it, is a singular being, who by itself created all things, seem like a bit of a reach to me.. simply because I haven't found evidence for the claim.

Don't get me wrong. The universe DID have a cause. The nature of the cause.. is where theists and I often disagree. Because they claim it is a God, with certain specific characteristics.. and i often ask for the proof behind these claims and get none in return.. or get a generic “because that's just the way it is" answer.

I made a thread a while back.. where I tried to argue for alternative concepts of what the first cause could be.. and why the default approach of the theist isn't the only possible way things could exist.

https://www.nairaland.com/7220447/questions-existence-creator-god

Here it is if you want to check it out.

The fact that there is something instead of nothing is sufficient proof of God. This should convert you from an agnostic to a theist, or a deist at least.

Why there is something rather than nothing is a question I've been asking for a long time. Why is there matter.. why are there laws of physics.. why is there anything.. even a thought or a concept is thing.. why is a thing a thing..

People often answer by plugging God into the equation. But that doesn't answer the question. Because God is still a thing. A supposed complex supreme being is still a thing. Why would such a being exist in the first place? Why would it exist in the way it exists.. why would it have a nature?

The question of why there is something doesn't end when you plug God in.. it just extends the question.
Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by Joshthefirst(m): 7:37am On Aug 15, 2022
Wilgrea7:

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.
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The Kalam cosmological argument.. wonderful. I agree that the universe had a cause. What the cause is, is what I'm trying to find out. The agent behind the cause.. is what you refer to as God. The reason I'm still skeptical.. or a bit slow to accept that conclusion...is because a lot about the nature of the cause of the universe... or rather.. the nature of the agent/agents behind the first cause is still widely unknown to us.

To me, the assumption that the first cause, or rather the reason for it, is a singular being, who by itself created all things, seem like a bit of a reach to me.. simply because I haven't found evidence for the claim.

Don't get me wrong. The universe DID have a cause. The nature of the cause.. is where theists and I often disagree. Because they claim it is a God, with certain specific characteristics.. and i often ask for the proof behind these claims and get none in return.. or get a generic “because that's just the way it is" answer.

I made a thread a while back.. where I tried to argue for alternative concepts of what the first cause could be.. and why the default approach of the theist isn't the only possible way things could exist.

https://www.nairaland.com/7220447/questions-existence-creator-god

Here it is if you want to check it out.
As you have agreed the universe did have a cause then you are not even agnostic anymore. At least you're a deist. The nature of God is another matter that we can argue about. Don't get ahead of yourself.


Wilgrea7: Why there is something rather than nothing is a question I've been asking for a long time. Why is there matter.. why are there laws of physics.. why is there anything.. even a thought or a concept is thing.. why is a thing a thing..

People often answer by plugging God into the equation. But that doesn't answer the question. Because God is still a thing. A supposed complex supreme being is still a thing. Why would such a being exist in the first place? Why would it exist in the way it exists.. why would it have a nature?

The question of why there is something doesn't end when you plug God in.. it just extends the question.
You aren't thinking about it properly. God is the end of the question, because Him being the cause of everything and the creator déclassifiés Him from being a "thing". It means He is the origin of everything, giving Him necessary attributes like being "eternal" and uncreated. And also making him "infinitely powerful and knowledgeable" with respect to the created order

The fact that you didn't arrive at this conclusion now tempts me to think you aren't actually being honest in your quest for truth. Because it is quite obvious. That there is something rather than nothing means that there is "something" that is eternal and complete giving rise to our own "somethings" that had a beginning in time and have laws and gravity governing us and the created universe.

This someone is beyond time, because time itself had a distinct origin from infinity. This is definity a someone, because He gave rise to laws and a fine tuned universe and our consciousness that grasps for His existence. The very fact of your mind is proof of God's overmind.

You cannot apply to God what you apply to yourself if He is indeed the cause of the universe(and we both obviously agree that there must be a cause). God by nature must be uncreated and eternal. He is not simply another "thing" that is part of the created order that you can apply your question to, because He gives rise to the created order. He gives rise to the question itself. He is the answer to the question.

That this very simple and intuitive reasoning was lost on you makes me suspicious.
Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by Templee333(m): 7:44pm On Aug 30, 2022
MaxInDHouse come & help honest hearted ones here & stop distracting my long story.
Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:43pm On Aug 30, 2022
Templee333:
MaxInDHouse come & preach here & stop disturbing my story.

cornelboy:

Do you believe the Bible as God's word?

Templee333:

do u believe the HOLY KORAN as God's word? ur answer to my question is also my answ to ur question.

cornelboy:

Hell no!

Templee333:

if i choose to be an atheist does it concern u? If it pains u stop paying my school fees & cut off my feeding & outfits allowances.

Tell people you don't believe in GOD before deceiving them with lies as if you care for them! smiley

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Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by Templee333(m): 5:55am On Aug 31, 2022
MaxInDHouse:

if i believe in God or not,how does it concern u?









Tell people you don't believe in GOD before deceiving them with lies as if you care for them! smiley
Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:08am On Aug 31, 2022
Templee333:

if i believe in God or not,how does it concern u?
It should be a matter of concern to all faithful followers of your story, they supposed to know that you're an atheist who sees them as fools for believing (trusting) in GOD!
So you're in no position to help them in any way since the log of wood in your eyes can't allow you see properly to help others! smiley

Re: Dear Christians,please Say Something About This by Templee333(m): 11:32am On Dec 23, 2022
MaxInDHouse:

It should be a matter of concern to all faithful followers of your story, they supposed to know that you're an atheist who sees them as fools for believing (trusting) in GOD!
So you're in no position to help them in any way since the log of wood in your eyes can't allow you see properly to help others! smiley
I supose u are the one in the right position to help. Go ahead and help them. Make sure u help them well o

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