logica:

On a final note, for the self-loather you can say I am a decade ahead of you, as I took the stance of a self-loather to understand the factors behind having to leave my land just to have a better life. I was bitter. And it took me 4 years to get the answer as each piece in the lock clicked into place. I am merely trying to fast-track your journey, or you can spend more time figuring it out.

can you shed more light on your journey please it sounds quite deep - you may inspire others.

okada_man:

9jaganja, they will soon label you a lunatic ideologue, but it comes with the territory, be ready to embrace it, don't be telling people you want to kill them upfront though, it only works in movies, you say that when you get the power in your hands.

Seriously though, we need solutions rooted in a sellable and coherent national philosophy, I don't care if we need to carry around a "little green book". We need to give future generations something to hold on to.

Keep discussing, I'll be back.

Hhahahahaaha, i know but it's how it works, ok maybe not kill them but they have to be rubbished publicly so their utterances which threatens the union won't be taken seriously by people!!!

nolongTing:

A Yoruba Nigerian? You can only chose one lol! I think the best tool is leading by example, that task is easier when its in the context of a well defined culture.  Synergy would be great but I believe that the different ethnic groups are more interested in point scoring and gaining political advantages rather than bringing about REAL unity.  I mentioned it earlier that Nigeria to this day still dose not have a national cultural policy that has been implemented.

Thats why we need to embrace our cultures, the oyinbos have the upper hand because most Africans practice their culture.  By embracing and modernising our culture they will lose influence, the young will aspire to different things - in short the oyinbos will have to start reading our books and paying us to understand our culture so they can participate.  But you are right brainstorming is the way forward.

Leading by example is very good but that will only work in an already established culture. Right now, there are many examples and some are wrong, some are right, Some people listens to the Sultan some listens to Obasanjo while some listens to Ojukwu etc, There are multiple examples everywhere, While I know my option is rather radical, I believe it works great. But I also think there is a more liberal way to approach it given brain storming! By Yoruba Nigerian, I'm just simply saying i'm Yoruba and a Nigerian,

You know, our cultures have soo many incentives that it will be hard for us to have a national culture by ignoring the cultures. That is why I think we should protect the cultures in Nigeria in the context of Nigeria. If I want to live in Enugu, I have the right to but I must assimilate with the people and respect their culture and anything that contradicts their cultures should be dropped the moment I step in the Igbo land etc, That way, there will be no majority and no minority but with propaganda, we should encourage and give incentive to whatever we think is Nigerian culture,

Creating the Nigerian culture may take a millennium to materialize given the vast amount of cultures present, I still like the fact that I dobale to grandma and my uncles lol, Now, this can be seen nationally as a respect for older people therefore, Nigerians should be encouraged to have a way of greeting elders. Now that's an analogy for how we can protect all our different cultures in the context of a one Nigerian culture,

nolongTing:

Thats why we need to embrace our cultures, the oyinbos have the upper hand because most Africans practice european or Arab culture.  By embracing and modernising our culture they will lose influence, the young will aspire to different things - in short the oyinbos will have to start reading our books and paying us to understand our culture so they can participate.  But you are right brainstorming is the way forward.

Yes we need to bring together all aspects of our cultures and philosophy, debate them, brainstorm on them, know what is good in terms of both long and short term effects,  Whatever is good for short term will be speedily encouraged and that which is good in the long run will be slowly but steadily encouraged so the short term effect will be a compliment and relief for the long term effect. So basically, the short run effect being encouraged speedily will be to get the people into it while the long run effect will be for continuity!!!

I gotta go to a friend's house, it's Friday lol!!!! Partttay lol!!

Ariya should be encouraged in the new culture as happiness liberalizes the mind!! Nigerian festivals, Nigerian carnivals. Screw independence day, it's irrelevant!!

Nigeria's day! Our carnivals, etc, all in the context of Nigeria. All these things makes people proud of their nationality and will fight to death to keep what they are proud of, Same way people religiously follow foreign religions, people need to religiously dump them to religiously follow Nigerian way of life and the pursuit of our collective happiness!!!

The power of money has to be reduced to a numb!!!

logica:

* I know about European history  because I went to school in the Netherlands for post-graduate study.
* I am sure you've never been to New York, have you? well, lemme school you.

Clear symptoms of Narcissistic personality disorder. Any shrinks in the house, to help this "na me first go to school for my family" idi.iot?

Self-loathing? Check!

There you go again, resorting to insults an attacking me personally to make your point instead of replying to my posts. How Magnanimous of you.

You are hilarious. Now u have gone a notch further and are now howling at the wind. Why don't you attack my facts instead? You know they are true for the most part, don't ya?

Which New York is that you lived in where all Italians are Mobsters and Jews have "an acumen for accounting and business" LOL, talk about stereotyping and bigotry. Yet you constantly flash the race and victim card at will. The Nigerian Al Sharpton, you really are a class act.

Did you bother to even read those books that I had recommended? You should, mate.

If you don't but carry on with this inanity, you should be pelted with rotten eggs and placed in a windowless cell, or better yet, condemned to digging ditches for life, at least ensuring future generations will not be contaminated by your nerve raking folly.

My-Key:

Which New York is that you lived in where all Italians are Mobsters and Jews have "an acumen for accounting and business"

You asked if Italians and Jews still lived in ghettos which was where I said they were in the earlier 20th century, and I answered your silly question explaining how they did it. Most people who can read English can figure I was referring to the early 20th Century when they were STILL in the ghetto, especially when I mentioned The Prohibition Era. So where did I mention that the Jews and Italians are STILL bootleggers especially since Prohibition has long been over? And did I not mention they laundered their money into legit businesses?

Now I have to explain every single response to this brain-damaged mo.ro.n. See, it is obvious you have a serious mental problem and I will suggest you allow serious people respond to this thread. Really. Take a break and go find a psychiatrist.

My-Key:

Did you bother to even read those books that I had recommended? You should, mate.

Dude, I didn't even read half of your gibberish to have noticed you mentioned any books. Again, take my previous advise. Have a good life.

Somalis are one tribe, my friend. The factional fighting is due to another unique contribution of Somalia to the world apart from Anarchy and Piracy; Clan-ism. There are now Militia factions there made up of Sub-Sub-Clans. Soon, even family militia will be at each other's throats. Read wider than Wikipedia, buddy,

The problem we have in Nigeria is corruption.
1. The CBN should ensure that our money is not illegally transfered out the country to foreign accounts. Even if the money is stolen, the money should be invested in our economy.
2. Improve our Agricultural sector and other natural resources.
3. Have a steady power supply
4. Have a stable political system that will attract foreign investors
5. Cut down the salaries and wages of political office holders. This will make the office unattractive.
6. Have a well functional Judicial system to purnish corrupt officers, like 20 years or life imprisonment.
If these are put in place, Nigeria will transform.

I would rather we spent more time listing our current problems and focus on solving them than spend all the time cross-examining the past.

I would rather we identified today's enemies and rise strongly against them than waste time on discourse.

Looking back at 1960, there are so many places where nigeria could have been turned back inspite of the initial british mistakes. Each military coup that happened was an opportunity for revival.

All 6 successful coups, the one assassination and the unsuccessful coups (Mamman Vatsa, Gideon Orkar) were opportunities for the country to be turned back.

the reality is that this country keeps getting second chances every few years. and we keep failing.

We have gone wrong and are still going wrong because we refuse to rise to the PRESENT MOMENT.

Even now, another one is around the corner. Your legislators (if my sources are true) are planning 50 amendments to the constitution. By the time we finish challenging 10 of them, 40 would have sailed past the post. What is so crooked about a document that has served 3 different presidential terms of office that it would require such panel-beating?

To conclude: We have gone wrong at every opportunity presented. Every hiatus in government was an opportunity squandered. Every single change of power in the last 50 years has been an opportunity squandered. Every single major crisis (Boko haram, MEND bombings, Maitatsine, Odi Massacre, Jos Riots, Aguleri-Umuleri, Ife-Modakeke, Northern election rioting, Sagamu OPC-Hausa rioting, Bakassi skirmishes etc) has been an opportunity wasted.

As long as we keep looking back and moaning instead of fighting the devil right in front of us, we will keep doing the same dance.

We, as the African population also contribute to this problem. Our inability to hold our leaders accountable, and being emotional voters.

HOW DO WE KEEP OUR LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4008293090480628280

Good material.

^-- I have that book but unfortunately haven't yet read it. Supposed to be damn good, from what I hear

nolongTing:

I did not want to answer to IRRELEVANT, PATHETIC questions especially when you lacked the depth to answer mine first.

This is Mirroring again, now you are copying me and trying to sound intelligent, stick to being a dummy.

what are going to do "big boy" lol   you are a first class prat - get lost!

always fighting.

oh well, having no game can do that to you.

okadaman2:
It seems this Ekt_bear character is always seeking for knowledge, trying to understand and fix things, it's sad your leaders are not nearly as deep as some of you guys on here are.

My take: We lacked philosopher leaders, now, that can't explain everything, but the fact remains that we'd been unfortunate enough to be blessed/cursed with minions and shallow leaders since 1960 at least.

A lot has been said about the engineers and techicians that built China and some SEA countries as opposed to the Lawyers and philosophers that founded America. but if we look closely enough we will find that the philosophical ideologies of those Asian leaders were sound, [b]from the visionary but Brutal Mao [/b]to the smart  and milder Deng Xiaoping. Even Lee Kuan, a lawyer , obviously had a deep grasp of history and the keen eyes of a visionary philosopher-leader.

If Lee Kuan was a Nigerian leader he probably wld've been too shallow think of ways to tear down an unworkable union, but he was visionary enough to work for the dismantling and a subsequent re-arrangement of his country. South East Asia is where it is today because leaders were willing to confront the hard questions and radically tackle them.

Nigeria is probably lagging behind because our leaders are scared of confronting the radical, hard questions. I may be wrong, but I'm always right.

Okada_man don tock hin own. Good thread.

What?!?! Chairman Mao was disastrous for China. His policies like the Great leap forward were absolutely horrendous. What next? Are we going to call Josef Stalin a visionary?

logica:
You are kidding right? Are those African countries by any chance North African? Those are probably the countries with near homogeneous populations. "Tribalism" is a human trait, and not African. Even European countries have separated in the 90s talk less of African countries. And believe you me, if you by any chance had a country formed by France and Italy, they will very quickly grind to a halt. This is why Awolowo said "Nigeria is nothing but a geographical expression, and is not a nation like France, et cetera".

The other factor of course is interference by the so called "Western Powers". I have already mentioned the case of Patrice Lumumba and Congo several times today. Patrice Lumumba - progressive, intelligent, every bit the African the West cannot work with. But guess what, when the "Axis of Evil" aka Belgium and the US struck, they used the standard divide and conquer as there were tribal clashes. So again we go back to tribal differences. A house already divided has already fallen. Interference is more difficult when the house is tightly bound.

Wasn't Lumumba a socialist in the first place?

globalmind:
Somalis are one tribe, my friend. The factional fighting is due to another unique contribution of Somalia to the world apart from Anarchy and Piracy; Clan-ism. There are now Militia factions there made up of Sub-Sub-Clans. Soon, even family militia will be at each other's throats. Read wider than Wikipedia, buddy,

You are deadly wrong like Nigeria. I wonder if you are qualified to contribute toward this discussion.

Africans failed to undo the colonial boundaries and countries created on the economic pedigree of the colonial masters. When the Biafrans attempted to start the modern roadmap for Africa, British and its allies stopped it at the infancy.

And at some point we should ask ourselves, whether it is due to genetic or other factors,if our IQ lower than other races? I mean, are we living in an Idiocracy?

I say this, not because of the hardships most Africans face; as i have highlighted previously, other races have undergone worse problems.

It's just that, uniquely among other human beings, we utterly refuse to do anything about our predicament. We are unable or unwilling to do so. And come to think of it, most leaders in Africa are elected, its a poor reflection of the voters in general.

Why are there so few African Lee Kwan Yeuw, Artuturk, Deng Xiaoping, David Ben-Gurion, [b]Vladimir Putin, [/b]Sir Seretse Khama, Fashola? Why are so few of them elected into office? The elite in Africa, even those with an Ivy League education are incredibly stupid.

Is the IQ of Africans  lower? (I am not supposing anything, it's a question that I am throwing out there),

Please don't put Vladimir Putin with those people abeg.

logica:
So you expect all the loot of centuries to disappear in a twinkle? The richest countries in the world (apart from Switzerland. . .well. . . Switzerland benefited indirectly) have their foundation on all the loot from conquered, or should we say "colonized" nations. All of that won't vamoose suddenly. Nigeria was without a president for several months; what was affected? That just goes to show that a government might not be so useful after all.

ALL of the European ethnic groups have had series of wars lasting ages even before Jesus was born, and still had one ending just in 1945 so they should have developed mutual respect for one another, and understanding. You've had Saxons, Gauls (Francs et cetera), Vandals and Huns all who were interestingly collectively referred to as Barbarians by the Romans. They were all a savage marauding group and they were so destructive that they brought the "Dark Ages" with them, to the point that were it not for the Arab scholars most of the Philosophy of the Greeks and Romans would have vanished. Yet these are the same people we refer to as "The Civilized World" today in countries like Germany (Saxons and Vandals), France (Gauls), et cetera. So what does this have to do with IQ? If anything it is all about brutality.

But being of the same "tribe" does not necessary result in synergy. And various "tribes" can achieve that synergy over a long time as they develop understanding and respect for one another just as the Barbarians did.

But how do you explain the success of Taiwan and Malaysia?

yeswecan:


LOOOOOOOOOOOOL. good point though

The guy is sooooooooooo wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. The truth of the matter is that human nature is pretty much the same everywhere so blaming a continents woes on the mentality of the people is a jaundiced view at best. The truth of the matter is that leadership matters! Systems also do matter! No matter how good or bad your constituents are, if you don't enact good policies and a robust political and economic systems things will fail.

Nija4Life:


We need to learn to walk before we can run. If we achieve anything near the Prussian education you alluded to then we would have made a quantum leap in progress.

The success of any educational system is measured in terms of outcome. Japan and USA, two countries mentioned in the link you posted are highly successful nations. Nothing can be more modern than modern itself I’m afraid. We are million miles behind the so called Prussian system. Our best bet is to strive to develop a modern educational system and then we will worry about the next steps.

To set the records straight, in modern education, there is something called Assessment for Learning, where the students are at the very heart of the teaching and learning process. At least, I can equivocally state that I teach in a modern educational system where students are not forced to sit and listen to some adult talk at them from a board neither does it fail to take into account students with different learning styles.

Where exactly do you teach?

Nija4Life:


Spot on.

All modern education places a huge emphasis on the language of communication.
There are many untapped intelligent young people in Nigeria but we have failed to differentiate learning according to their needs.
There was this guy I was teaching the concept of operating system during my days back in university and despite using very simple language in English, he didn't have a clue what I was on about. But when I explained the same thing in Igbo, he grasped it very easily. That really opened my eyes to how powerful the language of communication could be to effectve learning

Wow! Excellent point. You can't educate without communicating. That's why Nigerians who mock people who learn in their native language are just ignorant as far as I am concerned.

logica:

You forgot to mention how all those crumbled societies were provided funds to rebuild (or were the funds for rebuilding conjured out of non-existent trade?); the equivalent of which would be to pay all the African countries back for the centuries of looting.

With all the aid that the European countries have given Africa, what good has that accomplished sir?

nolongTing:


lets this be a starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system



I think you need to apply some logic to your thinking it seems like a cry for help.  I hope you know that Africa has endured the biggeest crime against umanity - 480 years of slavery plus colonialism, with no compensation.



The map of Africa was drawn without their consent, its incorrect and the only way to correct it is WAR, why because the colonialists are EVIL geniuses, they have given certain groups right and priviledges they will not give up without a fight, for example the North of nigeria and oil, south sudan and north sudan, eastern libya and western libya etc - Africa was treated as a big natural resources cake. 

Most Africans want peace and try to tolerate and live with one another and the result is development at a snails pace.



Its silly to say they are silly, [size=15pt]western education cannot be easily applied to African problems, why? Because it based on European culture![/size]

Most Africans educated in the west with good jobs would have to take a 2000% + pay cut, to work in an environment struggling to mimic the one they have become acustomed to. 

Oh great! Another conspiracy theorist. Blame oyinbos for everything as usual.

Igbanibo:
First and foremost, Nigeria is ruled by Oligarchs, and it in the atmosphere of confusion and bad governance that they make their money.  If everything is running the way it should, there will be no money for them. 
Follow up to that is that power in Nigeria is disseminated to the masses, so there is no way for them to have their voices heard.  Again, power is held by Oligarch (ruling class), and they buy the votes, or decide on whom they want to be in power. 
Finally, international special interest groups from countries to cartels can and do influence the oligarchs through bribery, blackmail to do their bidding.  Why dont we have power?  Well, if we had constant electricity supply, what would happen to the people in the generator business?

My fix to address this problem is to empower the working people, focus on education, and do a better job of inculcating the ruling class.

Two instances that I will point out are the Murtala regime, and Buhari/Idiagbon. These were two leaders who were non compliant, and hell bent on achieving their political/nationalistic goals, hence they were overthrown by outside forces allied with the Oligarchs. Unfortunately, at the present and for the last umpteen years, Nigerian leaders tend to do a lot of mago mago, wuruwuru to get into power, therefore, they are very blackmailable, and have to cut their lackeys and political godfathers a piece of the action. It prevents them from being incorruptable.

Bros, you are sooooo wrong on so many levels.

logica:
You have been the eternally indolent one who started off with the silly "all Somalia is one 'tribe' talk. And you strike again.

What dodgy aid are you referring to? Will any sensible person give out aid if he knew it was all like throwing water in a basket, or maybe it's nothing compared to what they gain by continuing to ensure Africa never stands up especially when you know it all ends up in the wrong hands and is never used for development? Was that how they disbursed aid to Europe? Their "aid" is nothing but payouts to their cronies for their cooperation. No more.

Again reaching out to the Lumumba example,  which would have benefited Congo more for instance - their poisoned chalice aka aid or the nationalization of the mines as he intended, which got them scared shitless? They very well know the aid they throw in the direction of Africa is of no use and they are perfectly satisfied it is as it is. So if for instance you were my guardian, and I have come of age, and I tell you I want to work and earn a living; it makes sense for you to rather give out some money to a dubious uncle to dash me as stipends than allow me to find a job and be useful so that I can sustain myself, and fully knowing the nature of that uncle of mine since you (the guardian) had used the dubious uncle on occasion for your dirty work (who also happens to be a thief and supplies you with a steady stream of stolen goods)? Will I not starve to death?

And of course they org.asm on how well it works out when self-loathers like you say "Oh they gave us aid and we can't do anything with it. we are useless."

Haha chei! See logic. When has nationalization ever worked? Please tell me, I will be waiting.

Nija4Life:


Again, we need to learn to walk before we can run. Our system of education is yet to adopt and promote the concept of independent learning. Let us first master that, and then we will worry about the small matter of extension. Once again let me point to the fact that what Sugata Mitra did was a controlled experiment and in educational research you don’t make generalisations with a small sample. Even with a large sample, you need to be careful how you generalise.

How could you say it is a better model when you are yet to mention one nation that has successfully used it? Interestingly also, how do you measure success? Like I mentioned in one of my previous post, educational success is measured by outcome and some of the nations that are still using the current system are successful nations i.e. Singapore, Malaysia, and Japan etc.Finland has arguably the best educational system in the world but they do not use this model that you are advocating.



The role of educators is to guide and advise young people, in collaboration with parents about what is best for their children. Educators can attract students to their courses but for the right reasons so we don’t end up reducing a fine and noble profession to just marketers. It should be based on interest and ability of the students and not for bumping up numbers. I speak from experience and training as an educational professional myself.
Do also remember students only start making choices at the end of junior secondary and end of senior secondary school. What happens in primary and junior secondary schools where students do the same subjects, does your theory of ‘attraction’ still hold sway?


Teaching is not marketing I’m afraid where professionals should be judged by the ability to attract students. Teachers are judged by their ability to support, guide and develop young people to make both academic progress and improve on their social skills.
There will always be the odd one or two incompetent teachers like you have in any profession anyway. But when there are too many of them then you have to question the teacher education and training program that produced them in the first place. Please read my education blog, I have written some articles where this is addressed in more depth: http://www.hilonah-educationthatworksfornigeria..com/




Let’s not innovate for the sake of innovation. We need to adopt a system that has proved successful to many nations which we could adapt to suit our own peculiar needs and environment. It will be very naive to go for a system that is yet to be tried and tested in any country. You are yet to address how this will work in practice. In education you need the theory to inform the practice but also need the practice to inform the theory.

What if we adopt the British system completely for benchmarking and then make minor tweaks to make it serve our societal needs that way we can know if we are falling behind or not.
Too bad that national pride won't let us do any of the above.

logica:

Which was exactly what our own visionary leaders were doing in the 60s as we got off the starting block. They had to embrace socialist ideas as that was the only way to propel us forward. The American type capitalism in our budding years would have been a setback as quite a few would have gotten extremely rich while the rest wallow in poverty. There was need to uniform development. That was the idea behind the "Free Education" policy of Western Nigeria. We are still reaping the benefits of that policy till this day. But they were labelled Communists by the CIA and the rest of the West and "quarantined".

Now imagine countries where there is synergy, and no tribal sentiments. Imagine Awolowo was the leader of an Odua Republic. I doubt he could be framed for treason, especially since he would be the unquestionable leader. The people will follow him knowing all he does is for our collective good. But in Nigeria you had forces like the Sardauna as an ally of the Brits. Awolowo's political career and Nigeria were already bo.o.by-trapped from the start. A house divided is already fallen. And if by any chance Awolowo was killed, there would be a long list of his disciples to continue his vision. Continuity. Knowing this, foreign meddlers like the CIA would have simply become spectators since their strategies would have been ineffective. A great leader without synergy can never realize very much, and yes we had great leaders.

You cannot just skip to the middle of a movie without watching it from the beginning to get a good grasp. Making reference to our "collective greed" is exactly that. That came much later, after the decades of sabotage. We started well, but were pulled down. All we have to do is get up and continue the race.

Wow! You are defending communism?? Communism was an epic failure. Go read about Chairman Mao's many economic failures like the Great Leap Forward before you continue talking.

9jaganja:

it takes lots and lots of brain storming, dedication and funding. That is why Nigeria need think tanks sooo baaaadd!!

You can say that again.

Which New York is that you lived in where all Italians are Mobsters and Jews have "an acumen for accounting and business" LOL, talk about stereotyping and bigotry. Yet you constantly flash the race and victim card at will. The Nigerian Al Sharpton, you really are a class act.

Abi o.

davidif:


The guy is sooooooooooo wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. The truth of the matter is that human nature is pretty much the same everywhere so blaming a continents woes on the mentality of the people is a jaundiced view at best. The truth of the matter is that leadership matters! Systems also do matter! No matter how good or bad your constituents are, if you don't enact good policies and a robust political and economic systems things will fail.

Bros mentally of the people makes great differences in socio-politico-economic advancement. Africans do not think but feel. It is inherent and shows on African continent.

longman83:
Interesting thread.

Lee Kuan Yew in his book From Third World to First mentioned at the start of this thread, recounts encounters with African leaders, including those that occurred during a Commonwealth conference hosted in Lagos in early January 1966. Perhaps we can find therein a few clues to our predicament - from his perspective, at least:

[/tt]
Yew, From Third World to First, Harper-Collins, pp 352.


Further on, he makes some controversial statements reflecting on the conference:
[tt]
pp 357, From Third World to First.

Interesting excerpt.