. . .I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive Acts 20:35.

The Lord Jesus, teaching in Luke 6:28 said

“Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom…”

He thus established a spiritual principle which implies the more you give, the more you’d receive. This principle makes giving a channel through which God blesses you materially. As we read in our opening scripture, from our labour or work, we should support the weak through giving, for it’s more blessed to give than to receive.

God already took the responsibility to supply all your needs; not through the labour of your hands, but according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:19). So it would be wrong to rely on the income from your job for your life’s sustenance. There’re people who say the reason they work is to make a living, but that’s not what the Word teaches, it lets us know why we ought to work:

“Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth” Ephesians 4:28.

Giving is so important to God, and givers are very special to Him. He always responds to givers. Take for example the account of the Roman centurion in Luke 7:3-10. The Bible records that one day, the elders of the Jews pleaded with Jesus to heal his sick servant. Ordinarily, the Jews shouldn’t have anything to do with this Roman centurion because he was a Gentile. But they sought the Lord on his behalf because the man was a giver. Jesus responded and healed the centurion’s servant after they informed Him of how he had built them a synagogue.

Givers will always move the heart of God. God appeared to Solomon and gave him a “blank cheque,” only after Solomon offered to the Lord one thousand burnt offerings (1 Kings 3:3-5). Always cash-in on every opportunity to give in the house of God. Be prompt to pay your tithes, your first-fruit offerings, special seed offerings and other free-will offerings. Never let opportunities to give pass you by unutilized.

As you give, not only will the Lord multiply your seeds sown, He’ll also increase your capacity to give, so that you can have more. So for the giver, it’s a win-win situation:

“And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every work.” 2 Corinthians 9:8.

Confession
I’m a cheerful, joyous and prompt-to-do-it giver whose heart is in his giving. I’m a partner with God in the expansion of His Kingdom through my finances. I was born for this purpose, and I bring hope, succour and joy to millions around the world through my giving, in the Name of Jesus. Amen.

Further Study
2 Corinthians 9:6
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Proverbs 3:9-10
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Live to give - To Chris and Anita.
Very good advice indeed.
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Joagbaje:

God already took the responsibility to supply all your needs; not through the labour of your hands,  

while i agree that God already took the responsibility to supply all our needs, the above is stated with an intention to 'milk' the congregation. this is 419 So people should labour/work for oyaks & anita? Church members should surrender their earnings to oyaks as God will supply all their needs. how? via manna? or they will win the lottery?

Joagbaje:

Always cash-in on every opportunity to give in the house of God. Be prompt to pay your tithes, your first-fruit offerings, special seed offerings and other free-will offerings. Never let opportunities to give pass you by unutilized.

na wa oh. after paying all this, there will be nothing left to give to him that needeth

Joagbaje:

“Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth” Ephesians 4:28.

Joagbaje:

He thus established a spiritual principle which implies the more you give, the more you’d receive.

so why do you guys advise people to stick to a tenth when they can give 99%. You can just imagine the returns on investment when you sow 99% of your earnings

And always implicit in the message of these thieves is that the "giving" is to be to "church" or to "pastors". They never mention that the "giving" that God truly wants people to do and that He emphasised again and again in the Bible is giving to the poor and the needy.

Check even the case of the Cornelius that we were discussing elsewhere recently: Acts 10

1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!”

4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.

The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter.

Zikkyy:

so why do you guys advise people to stick to a tenth when they can give 99%.

Lol, you get it all wrong! Many people who tithe are not sticking to a tenth - you will find in most cases that their giving exceeds a tenth of their resources. Anti-tithers often bring up a strawman argument that 'tithers' stick to 10%, which is not true; whereas I have found many anti-tithers claiming they 'give, give, give far greater than 10%' where in fact their arguments betray they are very stingy. A question I often ask is this: have anti-tithing arguments increased giving in Christianity?

Do you give 99% of your own resources? I'm not putting you on spot; but then there's no reason to mock at what others are doing when you yourself cannot show how you exceed what you're complaining about in reality.

Enigma:

And always implicit in the message of these thieves is that the "giving" is to be to "church" or to "pastors". They never mention that the "giving" that God truly wants people to do and that He empasised again and again in the Bible is giving to the poor and the needy.

Lop-sided arguments only provide the poison of half-truths.

There are many cases in the Bible where giving is BOTH to the poor AND to those who are not poor! There is a balance!! It depends on the situations and purposes. Melchizedek was not 'poor' when Abraham gave him tithes; David sent gifts to men who were not 'poor'; Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 9 is not about giving to the 'poor'. But in all these, there are instances of giving to the poor - which Scripture does not make an issue above giving in other situations.

Half-truths are not even half-intelligent to begin with.

Always cash-in on every opportunity to give in the house of God. Be prompt to pay your tithes, your first-fruit offerings, special seed offerings and other free-will offerings. Never let opportunities to give pass you by unutilized.

Do people really believe this type of invitation to be milked?
Give that same money to the needy, or put it in a bank account.
The house of God?
Sorry, but no.

wordtalk:

Lol, you get it all wrong! Many people who tithe are not sticking to a tenth

Do you tithe 20%? show me a tither that tithe more than or less than 10%

wordtalk:

you will find in most cases that their giving exceeds a tenth of their resources.

You are not saying anything new. we are fully aware that people give 10% and still give first fruit, special seed, general offerings, offer 7, and any other pastoral demand

wordtalk:

Anti-tithers often bring up a strawman argument that 'tithers' stick to 10%, which is not true;

Good you said 'anti-tithers'; not zikkyy

wordtalk:

whereas I have found many anti-tithers claiming they 'give, give, give far greater than 10%' where in fact their arguments betray they are very stingy.

well, i don't know anything about this i don't think have ever talked about my giving on NL

wordtalk:

A question I often ask is this: have anti-tithing arguments increased giving in Christianity?

Maybe the purpose of the argument was never to drive increase in giving but to encourage pastors to stop twisting the scriptures to discourage the 'milking' of the congregation discourage the fleecing & 'skinning' (applicable to sheeps with little or no wool ) of the flock

wordtalk:

Do you give 99% of your own resources? I'm not putting you on spot; but then there's no reason to mock at what others are doing when you yourself cannot show how you exceed what you're complaining about in reality.

If you've ever taken time to read my posts, you will observe my focus is the message from the pulpit and from any other pastor wanna-be (like you, when you sometimes defend the preaching of the tithe on behalf of the pastor). I have no reason to mock what others are doing, i question the reasoning maybe, (especially when it is being recommended to a third party) but not how you chose to give and let me repeat that i have never discussed my giving here and i don't intend to. You want me to give you 'hot gist' bout my giving abi nothing for you It's between zikkyy and the Almighty

Joagbaje:

[There’re people who say the reason they work is to make a living, but that’s not what the Word teaches, it lets us know why we ought to work:

“Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth” Ephesians 4:28.

I'm not sure that's excactly what that scripture is saying. That we should give part of our earnings to the poor is not the same as saying we work for the sole reason of giving to the poor. It's saying that when we work, we have enough resources to give to the poor. But it also means that we have enough resources to do other things, including providing for our family, which the Bible says those that fail to do so are worse than infidels.

The danger in this kind of interpretation is that people continue to give endlessly to church programs and neglect other uses for the money that God has given to them through work. No wonder, many of such people continue to struggle in life and do not see any or commensurate results from their giving as promised by the pastor.

Finally, I don't know if I'm the only one uncomfortable with the fact that virtually every time the message of giving is preached, the scriptures often cited are those that relate to giving to the poor. But when the message is concluded or offering is taken in church, the message's focus and application shift to giving to ministers and the church. If we truly believe these scriptures, we'd apply them as they exist: Give to the poor, weak etc and you do not have to channel it through the church. I've never seen such emphasis in any church. Instead, giving to the poor is mentioned once in a while, while giving to the church and ministers is mentioned in every service and even outside the service.

wordtalk:

Lol, you get it all wrong! Many people who tithe are not sticking to a tenth - you will find in most cases that their giving exceeds a tenth of their resources. Anti-tithers often bring up a strawman argument that 'tithers' stick to 10%, which is not true; whereas I have found many anti-tithers claiming they 'give, give, give far greater than 10%' where in fact their arguments betray they are very stingy. [b]A question I often ask is this: have anti-tithing arguments increased giving in Christianity?[/b]Do you give 99% of your own resources? I'm not putting you on spot; but then there's no reason to mock at what others are doing when you yourself cannot show how you exceed what you're complaining about in reality.

That's a completely irrelevant question. Increased giving out of fear is no better than little giving out of love. Reminds me of pastors that tend to measure the success of their ministry by the increase in revenues, when a cursory look suggests that the bulk of the money is coming from thieves and other immoral sources. Why should a pastor preaching the truth and receiving less money be made to feel inferior to the pastor of questionable wealth? How sad our priorities are in the church today.

Zikkyy:

Do you tithe 20%? show me a tither that tithe more than or less than 10%

No, you assumed that tithers 'stick to' a tenth, not that tithers 'tithe 20%'. The usual anthem sung by anti-tithers is that tithers 'stick to' nothing more than a tenth in all their giving - and I merely commented that the 'stick to' issue is an anti-tithing fallacy of their own fancy, since it is not true.

You are not saying anything new. we are fully aware that people give 10% and still give first fruit, special seed, general offerings, offer 7, and any other pastoral demand

It is again a strawman you're bringing up. You can't just lump everyone into the same box and then make unjustified conclusions. Yes, people who tithe also give in other ways; but that is a very different thing from the idea that tithers 'stick to' a tenth - no more or less!

Good you said 'anti-tithers'; not zikkyy

I wasn't picking bones with you or personalizing my comments about you.

well, i don't know anything about this i don't think have ever talked about my giving on NL

Again, it was not personalized against or about you - which was why I said 'many' and 'they', rather than 'you' or 'Zikkyy'.

Maybe the purpose of the argument was never to drive increase in giving but to encourage pastors to stop twisting the scriptures to discourage the 'milking' of the congregation discourage the fleecing & 'skinning' (applicable to sheeps with little or no wool ) of the flock

If that was your own purpose in arguments of this nature, I stand with you. However, I have encountered so many anti-tithers in their arguments and efforts to see a complete end to any mention of Christians tithing - that is the thrust of their campaign. It is not about fleecing, for there are many ways that people are being fleeced or milked. Yet, after all said and done, those afore-mentioned anti-tithers who pretend that their campaign would bring about an increase in Christian giving have rather seen a huge decline! Whenever this issue is raised, you find only a deafening silence from those who pretend they can teach others how not to give a tenth while assuming that anyone who even remotely mentions tithing should be black-listed!

If you've ever taken time to read my posts, you will observe my focus is the message from the pulpit and from any other pastor wanna-be (like you, when you sometimes defend the preaching of the tithe on behalf of the pastor).

True, I have not read all your posts; but I know enough to conclude it would be wasted effort. Trying to tar someone with a brush simply because they are not in your bandwagon is not a good way to promote or invite dialogue. FYI, I am not a pastor, even though I'm persuaded to tithe as a Christian.

I have no reason to mock what others are doing, i question the reasoning maybe, (especially when it is being recommended to a third party) but not how you chose to give and let me repeat that i have never discussed my giving here and i don't intend to.

If it is okay to question the reasoning behind what people do, you should also be open to being questioned yourself - it is a two-way traffic in dialogue. It doesn't bring out good reasoning when someone tells another how not to give and yet they themselves are not open to being questioned.

You want me to give you 'hot gist' bout my giving abi nothing for you It's between zikkyy and the Almighty

You can leave others to let the matter be between them and God, rather than try to act like you were His personal secretary!

nlMediator:

That's a completely irrelevant question. Increased giving out of fear is no better than little giving out of love. Reminds me of pastors that tend to measure the success of their ministry by the increase in revenues, when a cursory look suggests that the bulk of the money is coming from thieves and other immoral sources. Why should a pastor preaching the truth and receiving less money be made to feel inferior to the pastor of questionable wealth? How sad our priorities are in the church today.

The question I asked is a very relevant question - because enough evidence is out there that anti-tithing campaigns do not encourage better giving among Christians. This is not at par with assumptions of 'pastors' who receive bulk money from robbers, etc. One often hears and reads from many anti-tithers that they are all for giving - a bogus fallacy that bears no reality! And talk about 'priorities'? Please just leave that aside - is it not the same anti-tithing folks in their campaigns that are making a career out of their 'anti-this-and-that' arguments?

nlMediator:
. . . . .Finally, I don't know if I'm the only one uncomfortable with the fact that virtually every time the message of giving is preached, the scriptures often cited are those that relate to giving to the poor. But when the message is concluded or offering is taken in church, the message's focus and application shift to giving to ministers and the church. If we truly believe these scriptures, we'd apply them as they exist: Give to the poor, weak etc and you do not have to channel it through the church. I've never seen such emphasis in any church. Instead, giving to the poor is mentioned once in a while, while giving to the church and ministers is mentioned in every service and even outside the service.

This is precisely what the opening post does; all the rambling ends up with (and boils down to) this:

Joagbaje:
. . . . Always cash-in on every opportunity to give in the house of God. Be prompt to pay your tithes, your first-fruit offerings, special seed offerings and other free-will offerings. Never let opportunities to give pass you by unutilized.

Ultimately, in my view, it is just another manipulative brainwashing message to get the victims to bring in the money, to bring in the moolah for the pastor and pastoress. Do you see any mention of giving to the poor ---- which is what God generally prefers? As I like to ask: would we prefer the lies of wo/men (mainly give to 'pastor') to the word of God Almighty (mainly give to poor and needy)?

Zikkyy:

while i agree that God already took the responsibility to supply all our needs, the above is stated with an intention to 'milk' the congregation. this is 419 So people should labour/work for oyaks & anita? Church members should surrender their earnings to oyaks as God will supply all their needs. how? via manna? or they will win the lottery?

na wa oh. after paying all this, there will be nothing left to give to him that needeth

Will you quarrel with the bible? Why are you guys always afraid of money? Is money a God to you or a servant? Did the post say you should bring the money to CEC ? Why are you worshiping money so delicately like this. It's only an inStrument and a tool to serve God .

nlMediator:

I'm not sure that's excactly what that scripture is saying. That we should give part of our earnings to the poor is not the same as saying we work for the sole reason of giving to the poor. It's saying that when we work, we have enough resources to give to the poor. But it also means that we have enough resources to do other things, including providing for our family, which the Bible says those that fail to do so are worse than infidels.

You are adding your own interpretation now. We work and make a giving, we recieve a harvest. We live on harvest. The first thing God gives us is opportunity to sow seeds.

The danger in this kind of interpretation is that people continue to give endlessly to church programs and neglect other uses for the money that God has given to them through work. No wonder, many of such people continue to struggle in life and do not see any or commensurate results from their giving as promised by the pastor.

Are yo now saying that the word of God is a lie. That giving doesn't have a harvest? It's either the word is true or not. What do you say?

Finally, I don't know if I'm the only one uncomfortable with the fact that virtually every time the message of giving is preached, the scriptures often cited are those that relate to giving to the poor. But when the message is concluded or offering is taken in church, the message's focus and application shift to giving to ministers and the church. If we truly believe these scriptures, we'd apply them as they exist: Give to the poor, weak etc and you do not have to channel it through the church. I've never seen such emphasis in any church. Instead, giving to the poor is mentioned once in a while, while giving to the church and ministers is mentioned in every service and even outside the service.

I hardly hear a minister talk about people giving to him. Even though it's there in he bible and nothing is wrong with that. It's something most minister avoid so as not to be misunderstood. If a minister talk about church project and other things ., it's a right thing. A real minister is the number one giver many pastors these days work ,do business and make money . They as Christians put their money into the gospel as well.

There are different kinds of giving . Giving to the needy is only one of them. If someone address the issue of giving generally and mentions different kinds of giving , what is the fuss ?.

wordtalk:

No, you assumed that tithers 'stick to' a tenth, not that tithers 'tithe 20%'.

Zikkyy assumed where, when, how

wordtalk:

The usual anthem sung by anti-tithers is that tithers 'stick to' nothing more than a tenth in all their giving

that's anti-tithers, not zikkyy never knew anti-tithers have their own anthem

wordtalk:

and I merely commented that the 'stick to' issue is an anti-tithing fallacy of their own fancy, since it is not true.

i honestly don't know what you are talking about here

wordtalk:

t is again a strawman you're bringing up. You can't just lump everyone into the same box and then make unjustified conclusions. Yes, people who tithe also give in other ways; but that is a very different thing from the idea that tithers 'stick to' a tenth - no more or less!

the bit highlighted, where is that from let's read zikkyy's post one more time

Zikkyy:

so why do you guys advise people to stick to a tenth when they can give 99%. You can just imagine the returns on investment when you sow 99% of your earnings

1. what has zikkyy's comment that pastor's 'advise people to stick to a tenth' got to do with what the payer actually pays/give?
2. why would zikkyy assume that tithers stick to a tenth (no more or less), when i already recognized pastor anita's advise that peeps should remit their tithe, first fruit, seed and other offerings in my first post

madam/sir wordtalk, biko, abeg you, i was only only referring to tithe as a source of giving and not the totality of giving. what you've done was 'to assume zikkyy assumed' you know that's not right

wordtalk:

However, I have encountered so many anti-tithers in their arguments and efforts to see a complete end to any mention of Christians tithing - that is the thrust of their campaign. It is not about fleecing, for there are many ways that people are being fleeced or milked. Yet, after all said and done, those afore-mentioned anti-tithers who pretend that their campaign would bring about an increase in Christian giving have rather seen a huge decline! Whenever this issue is raised, you find only a deafening silence from those who pretend they can teach others how not to give a tenth while assuming that anyone who even remotely mentions tithing should be black-listed!

This is news to me. I never knew that an objective of the anti-tithing campaign was to bring about an increase in Christian giving. i personally do not think giving should be the focus, rather the motive behind every giving should be our concern. I would like to ask if an explanation was provided for the huge decline in giving

wordtalk:

True, I have not read all your posts; but I know enough to conclude it would be wasted effort.

Yes, it would be a wasted effort, seeing that you derive some joy mis-interpreting zikkyy's posts

wordtalk:

Trying to tar someone with a brush simply because they are not in your bandwagon is not a good way to promote or invite dialogue.

na wa for you what exactly has zikkyy done to frustrate dialogue

wordtalk:

FYI, I am not a pastor, even though I'm persuaded to tithe as a Christian.

Okay.

wordtalk:

If it is okay to question the reasoning behind what people do, you should also be open to being questioned yourself - it is a two-way traffic in dialogue. It doesn't bring out good reasoning when someone tells another how not to give and yet they themselves are not open to being questioned.

I will only question the reasoning behind somebody's giving when it's made public. I am not going to squeeze it out of that person. read my post again, i did say it's likely to be when that person attempts to sell that reasoning to a third party (in public). That said, i will agree that i do question the reasoning behind what people do but never questioned WHAT THEY DO! in the course of any discussion, i am very likely to provide my own reasoning for seeing it the other way. IT'S ALWAYS A TWO-WAY TRAFFIC DIALOGUE What i don't provide is WHAT I DO. If you want reasoning, i'll give it to you

wordtalk:

You can leave others to let the matter be between them and God, rather than try to act like you were His personal secretary!

I don't interfere in matters that should be between somebody and his/her God that's why i focus on message from the pulpit (or when wordtalk attempts to preach tithe on NL), that's information for public consumption. I have every right to give my opinion on such matters

Joagbaje:

Will you quarrel with the bible? Why are you guys always afraid of money? Is money a God to you or a servant? Did the post say you should bring the money to CEC ? Why are you worshiping money so delicately like this. It's only an inStrument and a tool to serve God .

Oga Jo, forget this your talk of one being afraid of money or worshiping money i am of the view that sermon was meant for deposit mobilization or fund raising.

Joagbaje:

You are adding your own interpretation now. We work and make a giving, we recieve a harvest. We live on harvest. The first thing God gives us is opportunity to sow seeds.

Are yo now saying that the word of God is a lie. That giving doesn't have a harvest? It's either the word is true or not. What do you say?

I hardly hear a minister talk about people giving to him. Even though it's there in he bible and nothing is wrong with that. It's something most minister avoid so as not to be misunderstood. If a minister talk about church project and other things ., it's a right thing. A real minister is the number one giver many pastors these days work ,do business and make money . They as Christians put their money into the gospel as well.

There are different kinds of giving . Giving to the needy is only one of them. If someone address the issue of giving generally and mentions different kinds of giving , what is the fuss ?.

The fuss is that the scriptures quoted focus on giving to the poor but the purpose of this message - or 99% of what I've heard - is not about giving to the poor or needy. If you want to preach giving to the ministry, why not use scriptures on that? Also, since there are scriptures on giving to the poor, why not use them to preach giving to the poor, instead of as in this case, using them to generate money for the church, not the poor the scripture was referring to. I donot recall hearing any message on giving to the poor and challenging christians to give to the poor, with the same emphasis I hear messages about giving to fund the ministry.

Sure, ministers talk about giving to themselves, often in the form of testimonies about how people gave to them and reaped a mighty harvest.

I believe that giving brings rewards. But giving based on wrong teaching and wrong motives may not be rewarding, accounting for why many are persuaded to give in the church and still lack consistently. Better to give 5 Naira out of sound motive and right knowledge than 500 naira out of the wrong ones. That's why the pastor's focus is important. But as long as he receives 500 instead of 5 naira, he's happy. But the flock is suffering.

I hope I'm wrong in interpreting what the message said about the reason for work. But it's clear enough that the pastor said that the purpose of work is not to make a living but to give. What other interpretation can one give to it, other than what it clearly says? Your own interpretation is no different from the one in the message, i.e., we do not live on what we earn but from the profits of our giving of what we earn. Again, that's why many in the church are essentially starving. The Bible says no such thing and many that give on that basis are not seeing the results promised by the preachers.

nlMediator:

I believe that giving brings rewards. But giving based on wrong teaching and wrong motives may not be rewarding, accounting for why many are persuaded to give in the church and still lack consistently. Better to give 5 Naira out of sound motive and right knowledge than 500 naira out of the wrong ones.

Thank you my brother. But i don't think Jo will agree with you, knowing his objective is to collect that N500 from members.

Joagbaje:

You are adding your own interpretation now. We work and make a giving, we recieve a harvest. We live on harvest. The first thing God gives us is opportunity to sow seeds.

Oga Jo, which one be this again we work and make a giving? what happened to receiving from our work? is that different from the harvest? how do you give the fruit of your labour when you have not received? you see yourself na you are desperately trying to justify the sermon and in the process provide further evidence that the whole thing was 'wash-wash' (scam)

^^^ Even the tithing that they are trying desperately to justify involves sharing part of the "tithes" with widows, orphans and aliens in the Old Testament. Yet, you never hear any of the tithe-mongers agree that tithes can be shared with the poor and needy. Instead it is all to be brought into the "storehouse" aka the "church". They say the "tithing" for today is based on "principle" but that principle is only the "principle" of bringing the money into "church" and for "pastors"; it never involves the "principle" of helping the poor and needy! In "principle", of course.

Zikkyy:

Oga Jo, which one be this again we work and make a giving? what happened to receiving from our work? is that different from the harvest? how do you give the fruit of your labour when you have not received? you see yourself na you are desperately trying to justify the sermon and in the process provide further evidence that the whole thing was 'wash-wash' (scam)

My brother, I found that puzzling too. Get a job, get paid, give, wait for harvest, then live off the harvest, including providing for your family. I  bet even the pastors do not practice that.

Zikkyy:

the bit highlighted, where is that from let's read zikkyy's post one more time

1. what has zikkyy's comment that pastor's 'advise people to stick to a tenth' got to do with what the payer actually pays/give?

It has everything to do with a wrong view expressed. I don't know pastors that 'advise people to stick to a tenth' as if that is what tithers do - 'stick to a tenth'. That was why I noted that the 'tenth' is not the end of all the giving expressed by those who choose to tithe.

2. why would zikkyy assume that tithers stick to a tenth (no more or less), when i already recognized pastor anita's advise that peeps should remit their tithe, first fruit, seed and other offerings in my first post

The 'no more, no less' is misleading - a tithe is a tenth, and besides that, there are other ways and occasions where tithers give. Nobody here started this fallacy of 'stick to a tenth' and 'no more, no less' - other than zikkyy.

madam/sir wordtalk, biko, abeg you, i was only only referring to tithe as a source of giving and not the totality of giving. what you've done was 'to assume zikkyy assumed' you know that's not right

Okay, I was wrong. And you're also not helping matters to have argued the 'stick to' when that is not the case with many who choose to tithe. When someone begins to argue the 'no more, no less' idea into these things, it creates ideas that have no bearing with what people do in their lives - and that was what I had thought you assumed in your comments.

This is news to me. I never knew that an objective of the anti-tithing campaign was to bring about an increase in Christian giving.

I was also surprised when I read that in the arguments of some anti-tithing theologians, trust me.

i personally do not think giving should be the focus, rather the motive behind every giving should be our concern.

I stand with you on that - and I'm not alone in that cue on 'motive'. Although not every person who encourages tithing has been careful to remember that motives are far more important, a majority of those I have listened to and read from actually put motives first and above what we give.

I would like to ask if an explanation was provided for the huge decline in giving

Depends on who is explaining what. I noted that whenever the issue is raised, many anti-tithers would have nothing to say on such things - they explain nothing thereto while pretending that anti-tithing has made 'many people' to be 'better givers'.

Yes, it would be a wasted effort, seeing that you derive some joy mis-interpreting zikkyy's posts

I take no prisoners, sir. I just wondered what joy you would provide in reading when you tar someone else with a brush.

I will only question the reasoning behind somebody's giving when it's made public. I am not going to squeeze it out of that person. read my post again, i did say it's likely to be when that person attempts to sell that reasoning to a third party (in public). That said, i will agree that i do question the reasoning behind what people do but never questioned WHAT THEY DO! in the course of any discussion, i am very likely to provide my own reasoning for seeing it the other way. IT'S ALWAYS A TWO-WAY TRAFFIC DIALOGUE What i don't provide is WHAT I DO. If you want reasoning, i'll give it to you

Em, sir. . . in all that explication up there^^, it still boils down to being open so that others may question you. That is not saying that they are questioning what you do - you question their reasoning, then be open to others questioning yours.

I don't interfere in matters that should be between somebody and his/her God that's why i focus on message from the pulpit (or when wordtalk attempts to preach tithe on NL), that's information for public consumption. I have every right to give my opinion on such matters

Everyone has a right to voice their opinions on any matter - no line expressed is paid for to be consumed 'privately'.

Enigma:

Yet, you never hear any of the tithe-mongers agree that tithes can be shared with the poor and needy.

That is probably because you've not listened to many others who encourage tithing. You can call them all the names you want under the sun so you can sleep well at night, but it doesn't strengthen your own ministry more than your complaining.

^^^ What's the matter with this one? Look, just stick to being an accessory for thieves by trying to provide "intellectual" and "scriptural" justification for blatant fraud. 

^^Lol, more of that would make you sleep well at night.

Joagbaje:

Always cash-in on every opportunity to give in the house of God. Be prompt to pay your tithes, your first-fruit offerings, special seed offerings and other free-will offerings. Never let opportunities to give pass you by unutilized.

Notice that pastors cannot tell anyone to 'give' tithes, they will always tell you to 'pay' tithes and 'give' your offerings. You pay for something as an obligation while you give something with free will. That means tithing is obligatory payments (monthly) which has no place under the new testament dispensation of grace and free will.

Why do we have to "pay" in the house of God? I have no problem "giving" in the house of God. Our bodies are the house of God, not some cathedral built to stroke the egos of men. If you realy want to give to God, then give to the "least of the brethren, then you would have given to" Him.

Jesus said in his word to "go, sell everything you have and give to the poor and then come and follow" Him yet you believe someone who tells you to "cash in" by paying from what you have to him/her. 

wordtalk:

it still boils down to being open so that others may question you. That is not saying that they are questioning what you do - you question their reasoning, then be open to others questioning yours.

That has never been an issue. what you really want is some 'hot juicy gist' bout what i do. too bad

^^ Relax. The 'hot juicy gossip' of your doings will come later.

kalokalo:

Notice that pastors cannot tell anyone to 'give' tithes, they will always tell you to 'pay' tithes and 'give' your offerings. You pay for something as an obligation while you give something with free will. That means tithing is obligatory payments (monthly) which has no place under the new testament dispensation of grace and free will.

Some teach tithing as obligatory or 'required'; many others do not teach it as such even though they encourage tithing in their churches. At least, I know of one church (among several others) - the Assemblies of God Church: they use terms such as 'pay tithes' as well as 'give tithes', but they stress that tithing is not a legalistic obligation.

A generous giver is important and encourageable. We give to the needy arround and far away from us. In case that I did misunderstand your grama ." You wrote, Live to give - Pastor Anita "
You mean, that the said Pastor Anita wrote , LIVE TO GIVE, or are you saying that You Live to give to your Pastor Anita ?
Clearify your statement please. Nothwithstanding , be a generous giver, when you can make it, without causing poverty to yourself, trying to please another.

God bless you as you extend hands to the needy.