Sullivan proposed to Zelensky the formula/drafts of the negotiation track with Russia, which should become the basis of the new Minsk/Istanbul/Riyadh-3.
According to preliminary agreements:
1.Ukraine gets Kherson with front established along the Dnieper
2. Freeze of the conflict along the line of contact in the Zaporozhye/Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
3.Ukraine receives electricity from the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant
4. Ukraines critical infrastructure is no longer bombed.
5. West is providing a $50 billion loan and some of Russia's frozen/confiscated assets to rebuild Ukraine.
6.Separately, Kyiv receives modern air defense systems, artillery/tanks.

I think second draft is the best option

It is too late.

Russia have been waiting patiently for winter....

Funny how history always repeat itself. From Napoleon to Hitler.

The US first assumes the war will be pause due to the winter, on the second thought they are not sure, now they want a deceitful negotiated settlement to pause the conflict, keep the sanctions and restart the conflict at a better time.

Kazim88:
It is too late.

Russia have been waiting patiently for winter....

Funny how history always repeat itself. From Napoleon to Hitler.

The US first assumes the war will be pause due to the winter, on the second thought they are not sure, now they want a deceitful negotiated settlement to pause the conflict, keep the sanctions and restart the conflict at a better time.

winter has started and Russia is falling what do you have to say after winter pass.

Kazim88:
It is too late.

Russia have been waiting patiently for winter....

Funny how history always repeat itself. From Napoleon to Hitler.

The US first assumes the war will be pause due to the winter, on the second thought they are not sure, now they want a deceitful negotiated settlement to pause the conflict, keep the sanctions and restart the conflict at a better time.

Napoleon and Hitler armies were the invaders. They were defeated. Putin army are the invaders presently. Based on your logic, it is too late for the invaders- Russians.

okeysoninv:
winter has started and Russia is falling what do you have to say after winter pass.

lol real winter war has not started

ken6488:
lol real winter war has not started

ok oo, it will start next year October . hahahaha Putards

joyandfaith:


Napoleon and Hitler armies were the invaders. They were defeated. Putin army are the invaders presently. Based on your logic, it is too late for the invaders- Russians.

The Whole Ukraine was part of Soviet Russia. Only a naive person will believe Ukraine can push Russia Out of Dombass which is a native Russia space.

Kazim88:


The Whole Ukraine was part of Soviet Russia. Only a naive person will believe Ukraine can push Russia Out of Dombass which is a native Russia space.

What is demography of Donbas? Compare it to that of kherson. Do you know different between native
Russian and Russian sneakers?. You should comment thereafter.

Truth!!
1.
Thought for the Day: November 13th, 2022. The Operational Goad.

Over the last several months of this war, since early September but really since the period immediately following the fall of Lisichansk in early July, we have seen the Russians suffer a series of operational reverses that have all somehow resulted in the Ukrainians taking extremely heavy losses. Anyone who knows anything about war knows that this is generally the opposite of how the ledger looks after a successful offensive. To lay out the timeline:

Early July - Russia seizes Lisichansk, pushes to the border of Lugansk Oblast south of the Seversky Donets and then ceases serious offensive action with regular troops.
Late July - Ukraine's OC-South begins a counteroffensive in Kherson. They are defeated with heavy losses and cease serious attacks by the end of August.
Early September - Ukraine launches an offensive east of Kharkov, breaking through an extremely thin Russian line and forcing Russian troops to withdraw from Izyum.
Mid-September - Buoyed by their success in Kharkov, Ukrainian forces launch a general offensive across the line of contact. They are defeated with massive casualties.
Early October - The Kharkov Counteroffensive bogs down due to heavy losses just east of Krasny Liman. Desultory attacks continue, achieving nothing.
Mid-October - A Ukrainian attack from Krivoy Rog achieves unexpected success and Russian troops fall back to Dudchany from northeast Kherson Oblast.
Late October - Smelling blood, Ukrainian troops ramp up attacks in Kherson. They make no gains and are defeated with heavy losses.
Early November - Russia withdraws troops from their bridgehead in Kherson north of the Dniper. Ukraine's OC-South is too battered to even attempt pursuit.
Now - Buoyed again by the Russian withdrawal from Kherson, Ukraine launches a new wave of attacks across the line. They are noticeably weak and achieve nothing.

Truth continues,
2.
There's a saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." A pattern emerges from the last four months of fighting. As soon as one Ukrainian offensive culminated, the Russians gave up ground elsewhere - often quite significant ground, but always without any serious losses on their side. This led to Ukrainian morale skyrocketing and renewed offensive efforts in the belief that the Russians were on the verge of operational collapse. These renewed offensives would then fail with massive losses, and the cycle would repeat.

I believe this may be intentional on the part of the Russians. Between mobilization efforts and Western aid, by the summer Ukraine had amassed a huge and fairly well-equipped army that would have been difficult for the Russians to overcome offensively without enormous, and extremely costly, mobilization efforts of their own. This pool of manpower and equipment, however, is finite - and the Russians know this very well. Ukraine has no significant military industry left intact and Western difficulties with military production need no discussion at this point. Similarly, the Ukrainian leadership is eager to attack and take back lost territory. The Russian decision was thus quite straightforward: they would go on the defensive and let the enemy come to them. The Ukrainians obliged. And any time it looked like Ukraine had had enough, the Russians would throw them a bone to get them to keep attacking.

Others have noted that the Russian General Staff prizes efficiency - this is, simply put, the most efficient way to defeat Ukraine. Goad them into dissipating their army - which, if the Ukrainians were acting rationally, would be treated as the priceless and irreplaceable asset that it is - in a series of disastrous counteroffensives. Then mop up what's left at a considerably lower cost and effort than would otherwise be required. As for the last bit, the winter campaign season approaches just as Russia's mobilized troops finish their training.

To make a boxing analogy, this is rope-a-dope over months and a thousand kilometers of front line. And Drago's getting ready to come off the ropes.

Vl3ly:
Sullivan proposed to Zelensky the formula/drafts of the negotiation track with Russia, which should become the basis of the new Minsk/Istanbul/Riyadh-3.
According to preliminary agreements:
1.Ukraine gets Kherson with front established along the Dnieper
2. Freeze of the conflict along the line of contact in the Zaporozhye/Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
3.Ukraine receives electricity from the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant
4. Ukraines critical infrastructure is no longer bombed.
5. West is providing a $50 billion loan and some of Russia's frozen/confiscated assets to rebuild Ukraine.
6.Separately, Kyiv receives modern air defense systems, artillery/tanks.

You usual dose of kremlin sponsored fake news.
Nobody's going to negotiate along these lines. Not when Russia's on the back foot.

Kazim88:
It is too late.

Russia have been waiting patiently for winter....

Funny how history always repeat itself. From Napoleon to Hitler.

The US first assumes the war will be pause due to the winter, on the second thought they are not sure, now they want a deceitful negotiated settlement to pause the conflict, keep the sanctions and restart the conflict at a better time.

Winter that the Ukrainians are even much better prepared for than the Russian forces? At a time when Russian mobiks are managing with scrap for winter outfits?

Winter will harden the ground, and with the stoppage of mud, Ukrainians will resume their offensives. You thought they'd stop at Kherson?

E say 'Napoleon to Hitler' as if Ukrainians weren't fighting Hitler's forces.

Winter ravages the unprepared. Well, one side is clearly better provisioned than the other.

texazzpete:



You usual dose of kremlin sponsored fake news.
Nobody's going to negotiate along these lines. Not when Russia's on the back foot.



Winter that the Ukrainians are even much better prepared for than the Russian forces? At a time when Russian mobiks are managing with scrap for winter outfits?

Winter will harden the ground, and with the stoppage of mud, Ukrainians will resume their offensives. You thought they'd stop at Kherson?

E say 'Napoleon to Hitler' as if Ukrainians weren't fighting Hitler's forces.

Winter ravages the unprepared. Well, one side is clearly better provisioned than the other.

In less than 30 days we will see.