Hello everyone,

So I've been thinking about something recently.

The idea behind the Abrahamic religions, is that we are sinners, and by virtue of that, deserve some sort of eternal punishment.

In the Christian religion, we're all born into sin. And even if we accept this Jesus character, we could still commit sin and end up in hell. What I'm basically saying is, it is incredibly more difficult to live a “holy" life, than it is to live a "sinful" one.

It is even further asserted by their Jesus, that "narrow is the way that leads to salvation, and only few find it", meaning most people alive would eventually end up in hell.

So if that's the case, then why would you choose to have children?

Why would you choose to bring more people into the world, knowing quite well, that they'd eventually that the vast majority of them would eventually end up in hell, at least according to your scripture?

If you truly believe in your scripture, then why would you knowing partake in something that would eventually lead to mass damnation?

I await some interesting answers

Hence you don't believe in Jesus Christ,
Why getting so interested in his teaching?
Think about it.

fman:
Hence you don't believe in Jesus Christ,
Why getting so interested in his teaching?
Think about it.

My belief, or lack thereof in something has no bearing on the validity of my question.

If you have an answer to the question, I'll be happy to hear it

Wilgrea7:


My belief, or lack thereof in something has no bearing on the validity of my question.

If you have an answer to the question, I'll be happy to hear it

sorry bro!
We r in the same boat!

Wilgrea7:


My belief, or lack thereof in something has no bearing on the validity of my question.

If you have an answer to the question, I'll be happy to hear it

hence the reason i choose to opt out of procreation. Even though i don't believe the fiery hell tales, this present world is the hell itself and i don't intend to bring more sufferers into it.

Wilgrea7:
...Why would you choose to bring more people into the world, knowing quite well, that they'd eventually that the vast majority of them would eventually end up in hell, at least according to your scripture?

If you truly believe in your scripture, then why would you knowing partake in something that would eventually lead to mass damnation?

I await some interesting answers

Because there is no punishment for not wanting people to go to hell.

Qualification for hell is not dependent on whether you failed to prevent people from going there.

If you are already going to hell, you are agoing to it already and there is no vicarious liability for other people choosing to go hell as you did.

They had/have the same opportunity as you did of not choosing to go to hell for you too are somebody's child/children also.

Templee333:
hence the reason i choose to opt out of procreation. Even though i don't believe the fiery hell tales, this present world is the hell itself and i don't intend to bring more sufferers into it.

How funny. You say this present world is hell yet you do not believe in it.

Dtruthspeaker:

How funny. You say this present world is hell yet you do not believe in it.

please try to read and understand

Templee333:
please try to read and understand

I do understand and I wish to say more but I respect your right to hold onto wishes.

Hell simply means Grave, but instead of you to find out through a research you abandoned it and start studying evolution yet you've come back to the starting point only to begin asking questions regarding what you supposed to unravel by yourself.
Well Hell means Grave and people will continue to bear children, grow old, get sick and die until God's Kingdom comes to infuse in faithful people what will stop aging.
Even though scientists have discovered that we supposed to continue living without growing old due to the way our body cells are renewed they can't just find out why we are growing old. If we tell you guys that real science is not all about LOGIC you will say we don't know science but now you're asking what real scientists have been battling for centuries:

Why do we have to grow old get sick and die when the cells in our body is renewed always?

As for Hell it simply means Grave!

Templee333:
hence the reason i choose to opt out of procreation. Even though i don't believe the fiery hell tales, this present world is the hell itself and i don't intend to bring more sufferers into it.

I've noticed the "Antinatalist" in your signature recently. I must say, it is a really interesting concept to consider.

And I think in regards to suffering, the antinatalist, unlike the Christian tries to avert human suffering for future children, by choosing not to bring them into the world. Especially when the possibility of misery seems to high.

Dtruthspeaker:


Because there is no punishment for not wanting people to go to hell.

Qualification for hell is not dependent on whether you failed to prevent people from going there.

If you are already going to hell, you are going to it already and there is no vicarious liability for other people choosing to go hell as you did.

They had/have the same opportunity as you did of not choosing to go to hell for you too are somebody's child/children also.

So basically, what you're saying is, the reason you choose to keep bringing hell-bound people into the world, is because it is not seen as a punishable crime?

If I told someone to cross the road, knowing well there's a 90% chance they get hit by a car, am I not partially responsible for their demise?

But in the case of christianity it's even worse. The people being born had no say in their birth. It is more analogous to pushing someone in the middle of a busy road, while simultaneously claiming not to be responsible for the accident.

The idea that people have the same "opportunity" to not go to hell is an obvious non-argument. We've gone over this before.

You know according to your bible that majority will end up in this hell. Then why choose to bring in more people knowing quite well they'd end up there?

Hello, this is quite an interesting question you've asked. It more importantly shows that you've been thinking about the Christian faith critically. Although you do have a motive for asking the question, but it was a well placed question.

So I'll take my time to reply you and I believe if you have thought about this question by yourself, you'll be capable to understand me.

Firstly, against the popular opinion, God did not establish marriage or sexual reproduction, Adam did. He saw the other entity that God made and he commissioned it to be a woman, giving her an identity of his desire, and thereby revealing his intent and desire to procreate and have his own domain. He wanted to have his own domain and be its king; kingdom.

So by this decree which Adam made, sexual reproduction or natural reproduction was established and since then everyone who was born by this carnality continued in it. This is why David said by defilement was I born. So you can only have sex by violating your chastity. Each one of us was born by violation of our parent body. This is the Adamic way to reproduce.

When Christ was being baptised, did you hear what God said about him? He said this is my son in whom I'm well pleased. Christ didn't reproduce by violation of his body, instead he reproduced himself in others through the spiritual medium (through words). So if Christ did all that pleased God, then it'll mean that reproduction by violation is not what pleases God but by Christ's way of reproducing.

This is what differentiate Christ from Adam bc Adam was natural and his thinking was of the primary consciousness but Christ was spiritual and his thinking was of the higher order consciousness. So we all were of Adam's nature at first but by grace through Christ we'll become of the higher other consciousness (1 Corinthians 15:45-49).

After Christ died, the disciples saw and understood the Godly way of reproducing and many stopped marrying or having children. They saw a higher purpose to life until the emperor Constantine infiltrated the faith and created what we have today.

Finally, when people have kids, they're not doing the will of God, they're only doing the will of man (Adam) and enjoying the violation of their body. They're not adding to the kingdom of God by having babies but when people teach and bring men to the knowledge of God, that's when they're actually doing God's work.

So having children is not the problem, not teaching them the truth of God is the problem. In the kingdom a person is still barren so far that they haven't converted a soul to the kingdom irrespective of whether or whether not they have children. Barrenness of the spirit is tantamount to a wasteful life.

Thank you for asking the question and I hope the answer catches your attention. GOD BLESS YOU

Wilgrea7:

So basically, what you're saying is, the reason you choose to keep bringing hell-bound people into the world, is because it is not seen as a punishable crime?

Basically, it is the same as you talking rubbish here since it is not a punishable crime

Wilgrea7:

If I told someone to cross the road, knowing well there's a 90% chance they get hit by a car, am I not partially responsible for their demise?...

...It is more analogous to pushing someone in the middle of a busy road,

If you told someone to cross a very busy road without more, you would be guilty of assault and murder IF THE PERSON IS KILLED

But, everyday in Lagos, people cross very very busy roads successfully. Why? because they are all taught how to handle the road and it is on the person's head if he did not learn. So, you have nothing!

Wilgrea7:

You know according to your bible that majority will end up in this hell. Then why choose to bring in more people knowing quite well they'd end up there?

You are still talking rubbish for people have reduced the number of children they have. In those days the average number of children in a house was 6 now it is about 3.

But whether 6 or 0 children it is immaterial as hell awaits all who are qualified to enter it.

It is a wonder that you people who say "every man for himself' is now wondering about other unknown people.

Don't bother about others, they will take care of themselves. Who knows, the unborn children might be better than you people's evil generation we were warned about that would come.

Do just jejely wait for your entry into Fire!

knowingChrist:


Firstly, against the popular opinion, God did not establish marriage or sexual reproduction, Adam did. He saw the other entity that God made and he commissioned it to be a woman, giving her an identity of his desire, and thereby revealing his intent and desire to procreate and have his own domain. He wanted to have his own domain and be its king; kingdom.

So by this decree which Adam made, sexual reproduction or natural reproduction was established and since then everyone who was born by this carnality continued in it. This is why David said by defilement was I born. So you can only have sex by violating your chastity. Each one of us was born by violation of our parent body. This is the Adamic way to reproduce.

I find this hard to believe. The Bible says god did not want man to be alone that's why he created a woman.

The institution of marriage is well advocated for many times in the bible. Particularly in the Old testament. And so is child bearing. "Go into the world and multiply."

Have you actually read the bible?

Bacteriologist:


I find this hard to believe. The Bible says god did not want man to be alone that's why he created a woman.

The institution of marriage is well advocated for many times in the bible. Particularly in the Old testament. And so is child bearing. "Go into the world and multiply."

Have you actually read the bible?

Well, all sayings are not for every man. This is probably why not all shall know the truth. It's ok if you find it hard to believe it, it's a matter of the disposition of your heart.

There are theories in learning and psychodynamic perspective of psychology that prove that our plans and expectations affect the way we learn. I'll hope that you lose your motive and maybe you'd see the reasoning in what I said.

The first Adam was a natural man; his thinking was myopic and his focus was his penis. He had a funny idea of companionship which involved his penis bc of his own desires.

Spiritually, reproduction happens through spiritual medium, which is words. The words we speak are spiritual element of creation so whoever wants to create others like himself must do so through words.

I hope you don't find it hard to believe anymore. Kindly check some of my writings here, you might find something that challenge your intelligence in them.

knowingChrist:


Well, all sayings are not for every man. This is probably why not all shall know the truth. It's ok if you find it hard to believe it, it's a matter of the disposition of your heart.

There are theories in learning and psychodynamic perspective of psychology that prove that our plans and expectations affect the way we learn. I'll hope that you lose your motive and maybe you'd see the reasoning in what I said.

The first Adam was a natural man; his thinking was myopic and his focus was his penis. He had a funny idea of companionship which involved his penis bc of his own desires.

Spiritually, reproduction happens through spiritual medium, which is words. The words we speak are spiritual element of creation so whoever wants to create others like himself must do so through words.

I hope you don't find it hard to believe anymore. Kindly check some of my writings here, you might find something that challenge your intelligence in them.

Can you help my brother?


I can't keep it to myself lest my mental health worsens.


Indeed,am getting mentally exhausted......as a result of several uncertainties and setbacks.



My older brother needs a job that involves accommodation and that allows him to have part of his salary for feeding till the month ends.

My dad thinks getting drugs to stop his occasional restlessness is all he deserves.
I don't agree..... I think the lack of helpful companions is killing my brother...He needs helpful companions... I wish I could remove the sad memory of my brother from my head but I can't.

I seek joy but I hardly find it ..... I am mostly distressed and very sad.


As for spiritual stuff.....,it is all about your definition of the spiritual...., I define it as something that has no definition that helps matters here.


If you snub me or condemn me,..... I may not be able to retaliate but I think I have said enough... let me see where I will die.

HellVictorinho6:





Can you help my brother?


I can't keep it to myself lest my mental health worsens.


Indeed,am getting mentally exhausted......as a result of several uncertainties and setbacks.



My older brother needs a job that involves accommodation and that allows him to have part of his salary for feeding till the month ends.

My dad thinks getting drugs to stop his occasional restlessness is all he deserves.
I don't agree..... I think the lack of helpful companions is killing my brother...He needs helpful companions... I wish I could remove the sad memory of my brother from my head but I can't.

I seek joy but I hardly find it ..... I am mostly distressed and very sad.


As for spiritual stuff.....,it is all about your definition of the spiritual...., I define it as something that has no definition that helps matters here.


If you snub me or condemn me,..... I may not be able to retaliate but I think I have said enough... let me see where I will die.

Hello friend,

I'm finding it hard to put together what your request is. Are you saying that you want a job that provides accommodation for your brother? Is that your request?

knowingChrist:


Hello friend,

I'm finding it hard to put together what your request is. Are you saying that you want a job that provides accommodation for your brother? Is that your request?

Yeah..... I will be thankful if he can also get part of the salary in advance for feeding.

HellVictorinho6:



Yeah..... I will be thankful if he can also get part of the salary in advance for feeding.

Oh I see. Quite unfortunately, I can't be of help at the moment. But I'll put him in my prayers to get one. I'm sorry about his situation. May God help you all.

knowingChrist:


Oh I see. Quite unfortunately, I can't be of help at the moment. But I'll put him in my prayers to get one. I'm sorry about his situation. May God help you all.

Honestly, prayers are useless to me.


All the people I've met never showed any value through prayer...... including those I ever loved in different ways.

Wilgrea7:


So if that's the case, then why would you choose to have children?

Very stupid question.
Go and ask your parents.

HellVictorinho6:



Honestly, prayers are useless to me.


All the people I've met never showed any value through prayer...... including those I ever loved in different ways.

I guess I'm not of value to you then bc I believe all things can be achieved and gotten when we pray to God through thanks giving.

I hope you find someone that provides you with the kind of solution you want then. God bless you.

knowingChrist:


I guess I'm not of value to you then bc I believe all things can be achieved and gotten when we pray to God through thanks giving.

I hope you find someone that provides you with the kind of solution you want then. God bless you.

Your value to me is independent of your prayers.

That's the thing.


I regard you for responding positively at least....that requires some value.

Compliments of the season

Dtruthspeaker:


Basically, it is the same as you talking rubbish here since it is not a punishable crime

If you told someone to cross a very busy road without more, you would be guilty of assault and murder IF THE PERSON IS KILLED

But, everyday in Lagos, people cross very very busy roads successfully. Why? because they are all taught how to handle the road and it is on the person's head if he did not learn. So, you have nothing!

Wrong. Your analogy fails here, when you consider the fact that according to your bible, majority of the people who exist are bound to enter hell. Remember the "narrow is the way" verse.

Taking your road-crossing analogy, it would be similar to a scenario where you knew that regardless of how many people you tried to teach to cross, the vast majority of them would eventually end up in an accident. And despite knowing this fact, you still continue to drag people to the side of the road, and telling them to cross.

When you bring a child into the world, their journey to either salvation, or damnation begins. Just as when someone is told to cross, their journey to the other side of the road begins, as well as the possibility of an accident.

If you already know that the majority of people who are born would eventually end up in eternal torment, why bring them into existence in the first place?

You are still talking rubbish for people have reduced the number of children they have. In those days the average number of children in a house was 6 now it is about 3.

But whether 6 or 0 children it is immaterial as hell awaits all who are qualified to enter it.

Reducing the number from 6 to 3 doesn't answer the question I asked. I didn't ask why people had more children. I asked why people, specifically Christians, choose to continue to have children, knowing the fate that awaits the majority of the population?

It is a wonder that you people who say "every man for himself' is now wondering about other unknown people.

Don't bother about others, they will take care of themselves. Who knows, the unborn children might be better than you people's evil generation we were warned about that would come.

Do just jejely wait for your entry into Fire!

Wilgrea7:
Compliments of the season



Wrong. Your analogy fails here, when you consider the fact that according to your bible, majority of the people who exist are bound to enter hell. Remember the "narrow is the way" verse.

Taking your road-crossing analogy, it would be similar to a scenario where you knew that regardless of how many people you tried to teach to cross, the vast majority of them would eventually end up in an accident. And despite knowing this fact, you still continue to drag people to the side of the road, and telling them to cross.

When you bring a child into the world, their journey to either salvation, or damnation begins. Just as when someone is told to cross, their journey to the other side of the road begins, as well as the possibility of an accident.

If you already know that the majority of people who are born would eventually end up in eternal torment, why bring them into existence in the first place?



Reducing the number from 6 to 3 doesn't answer the question I asked. I didn't ask why people had more children. I asked why people, specifically Christians, choose to continue to have children, knowing the fate that awaits the majority of the population?

Eternal torment as concerned sinners is not a biblical concept. Put the facts right pls.

Wilgrea7:
Compliments of the season

1. Wrong. Your analogy fails here, when you consider the fact that according to your bible, majority of the people who exist are bound to enter hell. Remember the "narrow is the way" verse.

2. Taking your road-crossing analogy, it would be similar to a scenario where you knew that regardless of how many people you tried to teach to cross, the vast majority of them would eventually end up in an accident. And despite knowing this fact, you still continue to drag people to the side of the road, and telling them to cross.

1. This isn't according to scripture but according to the delusion of your choosing, I am afraid. Jesus Christ made known that He was sent by the Father only to the lost sheep of Israel - Matthew 15 vs 22-24 - and that pronouncement alone basically eliminates the majority of the people who exist from partaking in that which Jesus Christ represents, which is the Kingdom of God — the domain of Heaven and Hell. The same Jesus Christ also said that only those who are born-again could enter into the Kingdom of god — either through the broad gate which leads to destruction(Hell) or the narrow gate which leads to true life(Heaven) — meaning that from among the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Jacob), the minority whom He was sent to, only those of them who go on to become born-again would end up either in Heaven or in Hell. So your claim that a majority of people who exist are bound to enter hell greatly contradicts what is in fact written in scripture.

2. Huh?

Wilgrea7:
Compliments of the season

Same to you!

Wilgrea7:

Wrong. Your analogy fails here, when you consider the fact that according to your bible, majority of the people who exist are bound to enter hell. Remember the "narrow is the way" verse.

Which the statement means, only a few listen to this Guide Who is teaching and warning them how to safely handle the express way while the great majority listen to another who deceivingly leads them to the movie Final Destination kind of death on the expressway.

Apologies for the incredibly late response

knowingChrist:
Hello, this is quite an interesting question you've asked. It more importantly shows that you've been thinking about the Christian faith critically. Although you do have a motive for asking the question, but it was a well placed question.

So I'll take my time to reply you and I believe if you have thought about this question by yourself, you'll be capable to understand me.

Thank you for taking your time to respond. I'll try to address as many points as possible. If I miss something, feel free to draw my attention to it.

Firstly, against the popular opinion, God did not establish marriage or sexual reproduction, Adam did. He saw the other entity that God made and he commissioned it to be a woman, giving her an identity of his desire, and thereby revealing his intent and desire to procreate and have his own domain. He wanted to have his own domain and be its king; kingdom.

So by this decree which Adam made, sexual reproduction or natural reproduction was established and since then everyone who was born by this carnality continued in it. This is why David said by defilement was I born. So you can only have sex by violating your chastity. Each one of us was born by violation of our parent body. This is the Adamic way to reproduce.

I agree that marriage is a human invention. But to say that sexual reproduction in and of itself, was not established by this "God" seems clearly untrue. The biblical story says Adam and Eve were created by God. And that includes their reproductive organs as well. To state that Adam established such reproduction instead of God simple doesn't hold. Even further, Adam is clearly instructed by said God to "go into the world and multiply".

When Christ was being baptised, did you hear what God said about him? He said this is my son in whom I'm well pleased. Christ didn't reproduce by violation of his body, instead he reproduced himself in others through the spiritual medium (through words). So if Christ did all that pleased God, then it'll mean that reproduction by violation is not what pleases God but by Christ's way of reproducing.

This is what differentiate Christ from Adam bc Adam was natural and his thinking was of the primary consciousness but Christ was spiritual and his thinking was of the higher order consciousness. So we all were of Adam's nature at first but by grace through Christ we'll become of the higher other consciousness (1 Corinthians 15:45-49).

After Christ died, the disciples saw and understood the Godly way of reproducing and many stopped marrying or having children. They saw a higher purpose to life until the emperor Constantine infiltrated the faith and created what we have today.

Finally, when people have kids, they're not doing the will of God, they're only doing the will of man (Adam) and enjoying the violation of their body. They're not adding to the kingdom of God by having babies but when people teach and bring men to the knowledge of God, that's when they're actually doing God's work.

So having children is not the problem, not teaching them the truth of God is the problem. In the kingdom a person is still barren so far that they haven't converted a soul to the kingdom irrespective of whether or whether not they have children. Barrenness of the spirit is tantamount to a wasteful life.

Thank you for asking the question and I hope the answer catches your attention. GOD BLESS YOU

While I find your answer interesting, it seems to clearly deviate from the topic at hand and talk about something else. I understand the Christian concept of being the spiritual child of God. But that isn't what this is about. This is about people who believe in hell and the words of christ concerning hell, and still choosing to bring more hell-bound people into the world.

You said people who have children aren't doing the work of God, but instead violating their own bodies. In that case, would you have children? Would you encourage other christians to become celibate?

The way to salvation has been clearly described by your Jesus as narrow. Meaning only very few will find it, and the majority will go to hell. So statistically speaking, even if every single person in the world were christian, and had children, the vast majority of those people, as well as their children would eventually end up in hell.

If such a thing is to be the case, then why not cut out the need for redemption altogether by not involving the unborn in the "sin" that comes along with birth?

Kobojunkie:
1. This isn't according to scripture but according to the delusion of your choosing, I am afraid. Jesus Christ made known that He was sent by the Father only to the lost sheep of Israel - Matthew 15 vs 14 - and that pronouncement alone basically eliminates the majority of the people who exist from partaking in that which Jesus Christ represents, which is the Kingdom of God — the domain of Heaven and Hell. The same Jesus Christ also said that only those who are born-again could enter into the Kingdom of god — either through the broad gate which leads to destruction(Hell) or the narrow gate which leads to true life(Heaven) — meaning that from among the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Jacob), the minority whom He was sent to, only those of them who go on to become born-again would end up either in Heaven or in Hell. So your claim that a majority of people who exist are bound to enter hell greatly contradicts what is in fact written in scripture.

2. Huh?

You seem to be saying something completely contradictory to mainstream christian doctrine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that only people who are born again can experience heaven or hell in the afterlife? Meaning people who are not christians, or not born again would not partake in either afterlife destination. Are you also trying to imply that different types of afterlife destinations exist for people outside christianity?

Wilgrea7:
■ You seem to be saying something completely contradictory to mainstream christian doctrine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that only people who are born again can experience heaven or hell in the afterlife? Meaning people who are not christians, or not born again would not partake in either afterlife destination.
■ Are you also trying to imply that different types of afterlife destinations exist for people outside christianity?

1. Yes! Except a man be born-again, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God - John 3 vs 1 - 8 - either through the broad gate which leads to destruction(Hell) at its end or the Narrow gate which leads to True Life(Heaven)- Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14. The Kingdom of God is a Nation not of this world over which Jesus Christ is King and judge- Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 - and it is in that Kingdom that you will find Heaven and Hell.

2. According to scripture, all those who are not of the blood of Israel were condemned to die from their beginning in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 22. So, they are free to imagine for themselves the "afterlife" they desire.

Some people claim to be wise and they throw a question thinking they are critically minded or intelligent but how they their form of thinking can be.
It is like people fearing to bear children cos the world is really getting worse