Kobojunkie:
Read the book..

And ladies and gentlemen, there lies the problem with our resident junkie. S/he wants me to read all through the Bible this night. Alright then, have a good night. Happy New Year in advance

jaephoenix:

And ladies and gentlemen, there lies the problem with our resident junkie. S/he wants me to read all through the Bible this night. Alright then, have a good night. Happy New Year in advance

Wow... asking a Blackman to read a book in order to educate himself is a problem? Whodathunkit!

jaephoenix:

This is usually the issue I have with theists. Just because someone wrote a book about something, doesn't validate it. Again, anyone can write anything and some dimwits would imbibe it as gospel truth without verification.
Please if you cannot verify your claims, then it's dead on arrival. Allow me to have my own beliefs which is based on facts and evidences.

Continue holding onto your beliefs ignorantly. You must be a kid not to know that the gods worshipped in religion are mostly the ancestors of the inhabitants of the place the religion originated from.

That's a simple fact.

Don't mention me for a fruitless, trivial discussion in a new year when you're supposed to make your findings from the literature and examples I've given already.

Believe whatever you want.

Kobojunkie:
Wow... asking a Blackman to read a book in order to educate himself is a problem? Whodathunkit!

You're just dodging my question. I have read your bible from cover to cover, reason why I'm an atheist. And you want me to read it again, because you're cornered in a debate?
Its just like me asking you to read a whole chemistry text because I asked you a question on electrochemistry

A001:

Continue holding onto your beliefs ignorantly. You must be a kid not to know that the gods worshipped in religion are mostly the ancestors of the inhabitants of the place the religion originated from.

That's a simple fact.

Don't mention me for a fruitless, trivial discussion in a new year when you're supposed to make your findings from the literature and examples I've given already.

Believe whatever you want.

I know your type. Ask them for evidence and they berate, insult and gaslight you all the time. Same tactics pastors and other religious figures use for brainwashing their gullible followers for ages.
Anyway, sorry bro for asking for evidence. Happy New Year

jaephoenix:

I know your type. Ask them for evidence and they berate, insult and gaslight you all the time. Same tactics pastors and other religious figures use for brainwashing their gullible followers for ages.
Anyway, sorry bro for asking for evidence. Happy New Year

I don't have time for nonsensical arguments. Whether any god existed in the past as a human or not is inconsequential because only the living do things, and the gods of religion are all useless.

Don't mention me to ask me silly questions.

A001:

I don't have time for nonsensical arguments. Whether any god existed in the past as a human or not is inconsequential because only the living do things, and the gods of religion are all useless.

Don't mention me to ask me silly questions.

I just saw in your description that you're a physicist and agnostic. Those 2 qualities rely solely on evidence and data. Pray, how did you have such beliefs(without a shred of evidence) and still turn out to be an agnostic physicist. That's head scratching, bro

jaephoenix:

I just saw in your description that you're a physicist and agnostic. Those 2 qualities rely solely on evidence and data. Pray, how did you have such beliefs(without a shred of evidence) and still turn out to be an agnostic physicist. That's head scratching, bro

I see you don't have anything in your head than engaging In Nairaland arguments. I've better things to do with my time than engaging in a silly debate on whether the gods worshipped by religious people existed as a human in the past or not, when that fact is obvious to anyone that studied history of humans and of religious gods.

Calling gifted humans like Messi, Einstein, Ronaldo, Pele a god is an age-old practice which forms the origin of religion. Keep finding evidence for a glaring matter.

I won't be engaging you in a silly debate. The gods were human first before they were deified by lesser humans, and god/God is man-made.

Keep looking for evidence for that all about since you're jobless.

Only those that don't know history argue over a simple fact.

This guy doesn't know it was some past humans that invented all the languages spoken today, that it was some past humans that first made iron tools, first built houses with a brick, first climbed a mountain, first cultivated some plants, first tamed some animals, and many other firsts.

All these people were deified as a god or goddess by their people for their feats, which the common people (the average persons) saw as supernatural or spiritual. Hence, the gods were exaggerated as spirit beings, not mere humans.

That's real history, not a claim.

He thinks hunters and blacksmiths in Yorubaland call god Ogun the first alagbede for nothing.

The deities were a human first before they became a god and are simply the ancestors of their people.

jaephoenix:

You're just dodging my question. I have read your bible from cover to cover, reason why I'm an atheist. And you want me to read it again, because you're cornered in a debate?
Its just like me asking you to read a whole chemistry text because I asked you a question on electrochemistry

But there is nothing to dodge!

And no, what you have been doing is instead akin to thinking the bible a book you can ignorantly throw anything at when clearly it ain't.

crystalmoon:
Many people claim the traditional gods such as sango , obatala , Ogun and the rest all exist , I find this claim disturbing due to the fact that when slave trade started the gods didn't do anything,
Colonialism came they sacked the temples and shrines of these gods nothing happened.
The whites came , disregard and disrespected the gods nothing happened
Is it that the gods are not real or they are just bidding their time
Honest and logical answers please
No atheism vs theism argument please

Another indication that god stories are nothing but stories. One can argue that these stories have utility but a story having utility doesn't mean it is true.

A001:
Continue holding onto your beliefs ignorantly. You must be a kid not to know that the gods worshipped in religion are mostly the ancestors of the inhabitants of the place the religion originated from.

That's a simple fact.

Don't mention me for a fruitless, trivial discussion in a new year when you're supposed to make your findings from the literature and examples I've given already.

Believe whatever you want.

jaephoenix:
I know your type. Ask them for evidence and they berate, insult and gaslight you all the time. Same tactics pastors and other religious figures use for brainwashing their gullible followers for ages.
Anyway, sorry bro for asking for evidence. Happy New Year

A001:
I don't have time for nonsensical arguments. Whether any god existed in the past as a human or not is inconsequential because only the living do things, and the gods of religion are all useless.

Don't mention me to ask me silly questions.

jaephoenix:
I just saw in your description that you're a physicist and agnostic. Those 2 qualities rely solely on evidence and data. Pray, how did you have such beliefs(without a shred of evidence) and still turn out to be an agnostic physicist. That's head scratching, bro

A001:
I see you don't have anything in your head than engaging In Nairaland arguments. I've better things to do with my time than engaging in a silly debate on whether the gods worshipped by religious people existed as a human in the past or not, when that fact is obvious to anyone that studied history of humans and of religious gods.

Calling gifted humans like Messi, Einstein, Ronaldo, Pele a god is an age-old practice which forms the origin of religion. Keep finding evidence for a glaring matter.

I won't be engaging you in a silly debate. The gods were human first before they were deified by lesser humans, and god/God is man-made.

Keep looking for evidence for that all about since you're jobless.

Only those that don't know history argue over a simple fact.

Exodus 7:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Now hear this:
I make you as God to Pharaoh [to declare My will and purpose to him];
and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.

Philippians 3:18-19
18For there are many, of whom I have often told you,
and now tell you even with tears, who live as enemies of the cross of Christ
[rejecting and opposing His way of salvation],
19whose fate is destruction, whose god is their belly (i.e. their god is their stomach)
[their worldly appetite, their sensuality, their vanity],
and whose glory is in their shame
--who focus their mind on earthly and temporal things.

Kk. Happy New year 2023 to both of you.

God, whether with uppercase G or lowercase g, essentially is a replacer or substitution for the noun influencer that equally serves as a verb influence, simply because of the effect they have on and/or how they affect something or others

When used as a verb, it put to use, in the context of having the capacity of influencing commendable behaviour or criminal behaviour

The object with the capacity of influencing others, with the capacity of having good or bad influence on others is said to be a God or god

Yes, inanimate objects (e.g. stones, rocks, rivers et cetera,) ancestors, human beings (i.e. Pele, Haile Selassie I et cetera), mythical fabled beings, animals et cetera are known to be deified.

Even the belly (i.e. stomach) too for some are their gods. They are influenced by their stomach or long throat. Some drivers lose their driving licences from DUI (i.e. driving while under the influence of alcohol)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

crystalmoon:
Many people claim the traditional gods such as sango, obatala, Ogun and the rest all exist, I find this claim disturbing due to the fact that when slave trade started the gods didn't do anything,
Colonialism came they sacked the temples and shrines of these gods nothing happened.
The whites came , disregard and disrespected the gods nothing happened
Is it that the gods are not real or they are just bidding their time
Honest and logical answers please
No atheism vs theism argument please

1 Kings 18:21-39
21Elijah approached all the people and said,
“How long will you hesitate between two opinions?
If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.”
But the people [of Israel] did not answer him [so much as] a word.
22Then Elijah said to the people,
“I alone remain a prophet of the LORD, while Baal’s prophets are 450 men.
23Now let them give us two oxen, and let them choose one ox for themselves and cut it in pieces,
and lay it on the wood, but put no fire under it.
I will prepare the other ox and lay it on the wood, and I will not put a fire under it.
24Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD;
and the god who answers by fire, He is God.”
And all the people answered, “It is well spoken.”
25Elijah said to the prophets of Baal,
“Choose one bull for yourselves and prepare it first, since there are many of you;
and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it.”
26So they took the bull that was given to them and prepared it,
and called on the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying,
“O Baal, hear and answer us.”
But there was no voice and no one answered.
And they leaped about the altar which they had made.
27At noon Elijah mocked them, saying,
“Cry out with a loud voice, for he is a god;
either he is occupied, or he is out [at the moment],
or he is on a journey.
Perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened!”
28So they cried out with a loud voice [to get Baal’s attention]
and cut themselves with swords and lances in accordance with their custom,
until the blood flowed out on them.
29As midday passed, they played the part of prophets
and raved dramatically until the time for offering the evening sacrifice;
but there was no voice, no one answered, and no one paid attention.
30Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come near to me.” So all the people approached him.
And he repaired and rebuilt the [old] altar of the LORD that had been torn down [by Jezebel].
31Then Elijah took twelve stones in accordance with the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob,
to whom the word of the LORD had come, saying, “Israel shall be your name.”
32So with the stones Elijah built an altar in the name of the LORD.
He made a trench around the altar large enough to hold two measures of seed.
33Then he laid out the wood and cut the ox in pieces and laid it on the wood.
34And he said, “Fill four pitchers with water and pour it on the burnt offering and the wood.”
he said, “Do it the second time.” And they did it the second time.
And he said, “Do it the third time.” And they did it a third time.
35The water flowed around the altar, and he also filled the trench with water.
36At the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet approached [the altar] and said,
“O LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel (Jacob),
let it be known today that You are God in Israel and that I am Your servant
and that I have done all these things at Your word.
37Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so that this people may know that You, O LORD, are God,
and that You have turned their hearts back [to You].”
38Then the fire of the LORD fell and consumed the burnt offering and the wood,
and even the stones and the dust; it also licked up the water in the trench.
39When all the people saw it, they fell face downward; and they said,
“The LORD, He is God! The LORD, He is God!”

LordReed:
Another indication that god stories are nothing but stories. One can argue that these stories have utility but a story having utility doesn't mean it is true.

What is Truer than truth?
Answer: The story, History, His Story

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

A001:

I see you don't have anything in your head than engaging In Nairaland arguments. I've better things to do with my time than engaging in a silly debate on whether the gods worshipped by religious people existed as a human in the past or not, when that fact is obvious to anyone that studied history of humans and of religious gods.

Calling gifted humans like Messi, Einstein, Ronaldo, Pele a god is an age-old practice which forms the origin of religion. Keep finding evidence for a glaring matter.

I won't be engaging you in a silly debate. The gods were human first before they were deified by lesser humans, and god/God is man-made.

Keep looking for evidence for that all about since you're jobless.

Only those that don't know history argue over a simple fact.

Ok, bro. Have a good day then

A001:
This guy doesn't know it was some past humans that invented all the languages spoken today, that it was some past humans that first made iron tools, first built houses with a brick, first climbed a mountain, first cultivated some plants, first tamed some animals, and many other firsts.

All these people were deified as a god or goddess by their people for their feats, which the common people (the average persons) saw as supernatural or spiritual. Hence, the gods were exaggerated as spirit beings, not mere humans.

That's real history, not a claim.

He thinks hunters and blacksmiths in Yorubaland call god Ogun the first alagbede for nothing.

The deities were a human first before they became a god and are simply the ancestors of their people.

Why are you forcing the issue?
You laid some statement, someone asked you to bring data verifying it, you declined in a rude way. And you still went ahead dropping more random false statement.
Just move on

Kobojunkie:
But there is nothing to dodge!

And no, what you have been doing is instead akin to thinking the bible a book you can ignorantly throw anything at when clearly it ain't.

Keep dodging. I don't have your time. If you don't have answers, just swerve

NNTR:
1 Kings 18:21-39
21Elijah approached all the people and said,
“How long will you hesitate between two opinions?
If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.”
But the people [of Israel] did not answer him [so much as] a word.
22Then Elijah said to the people,
“I alone remain a prophet of the LORD, while Baal’s prophets are 450 men.
23Now let them give us two oxen, and let them choose one ox for themselves and cut it in pieces,
and lay it on the wood, but put no fire under it.
I will prepare the other ox and lay it on the wood, and I will not put a fire under it.
24Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD;
and the god who answers by fire, He is God.”
And all the people answered, “It is well spoken.”
25Elijah said to the prophets of Baal,
“Choose one bull for yourselves and prepare it first, since there are many of you;
and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it.”
26So they took the bull that was given to them and prepared it,
and called on the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying,
“O Baal, hear and answer us.”
But there was no voice and no one answered.
And they leaped about the altar which they had made.
27At noon Elijah mocked them, saying,
“Cry out with a loud voice, for he is a god;
either he is occupied, or he is out [at the moment],
or he is on a journey.
Perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened!”
28So they cried out with a loud voice [to get Baal’s attention]
and cut themselves with swords and lances in accordance with their custom,
until the blood flowed out on them.
29As midday passed, they played the part of prophets
and raved dramatically until the time for offering the evening sacrifice;
but there was no voice, no one answered, and no one paid attention.
30Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come near to me.” So all the people approached him.
And he repaired and rebuilt the [old] altar of the LORD that had been torn down [by Jezebel].
31Then Elijah took twelve stones in accordance with the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob,
to whom the word of the LORD had come, saying, “Israel shall be your name.”
32So with the stones Elijah built an altar in the name of the LORD.
He made a trench around the altar large enough to hold two measures of seed.
33Then he laid out the wood and cut the ox in pieces and laid it on the wood.
34And he said, “Fill four pitchers with water and pour it on the burnt offering and the wood.”
he said, “Do it the second time.” And they did it the second time.
And he said, “Do it the third time.” And they did it a third time.
35The water flowed around the altar, and he also filled the trench with water.
36At the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet approached [the altar] and said,
“O LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel (Jacob),
let it be known today that You are God in Israel and that I am Your servant
and that I have done all these things at Your word.
37Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so that this people may know that You, O LORD, are God,
and that You have turned their hearts back [to You].”
38Then the fire of the LORD fell and consumed the burnt offering and the wood,
and even the stones and the dust; it also licked up the water in the trench.
39When all the people saw it, they fell face downward; and they said,
“The LORD, He is God! The LORD, He is God!”

What is Truer than truth?
Answer: The story, History, His Story

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

What are you on about?

jaephoenix:

Why are you forcing the issue?
You laid some statement, someone asked you to bring data verifying it, you declined in a rude way. And you still went ahead dropping more random false statement.
Just move on

Keep expecting archeological evidence for the existence of Sango, Obatala and co as if such evidence is also available for Socrates, Plato and other philosophers.

The historical records of Sango and co are available in the right places for any true seeker of knowledge. We know Plato and co existed based on their recorded history.

Ignorant mofo. Stop mentioning me for a silly debate in a new year.

jaephoenix:

Ok, bro. Have a good day then

Stop mentioning me for silly arguments. Is that too hard for you to do?

The fool is asking for the archeological evidence for the existence of Orunmila, Ogun, and similar deities to prove they actually existed in the past, yet he doesn't have the same evidence for the existence of Socrates, Herodotus, Plato, and co.

Well, I'm not surprised. Many Africans lack the capacity to think critically.

A001:

What could a mere human deified by his peers as a god or goddess have done against the superior forces of the whites?

All the gods you mentioned were past humans, who are long, long dead and gone before the slave trade era even began.

The dead can't control what happens in the realm of the living.
God is a human creation. What we've are superior, gifted mortals that lesser humans call gods/goddesses.

You are clearly naive and foolish.
Dismissing things you do not understand as mere myth shows you lack experience of the supra-sensible dimensions of life.
So much is not written in books.
So much cannot be understood without direct experience.
The Gods are more than real.
God Almighty reigns supreme over them all.
The Gods are rulers of different parts, substances, elements, aspects, activities, tasks and experiences in God's Creation.

You speak of the gods as gifted mortals venerated by lesser mortals.
Really? Gifted mortals? Mortals gifted by who?
Whoever that gave the gifts of exceptional endowments must be of far superior power.
In that case you subconsciously acknowledge that there is a being out there who is capable of upholding his chosen ones with gifts of exceptionalities and capabilities.
The man who says there is no God is truly a fool because he lies to himself. His soul knows the truth. There is God. There is also His Hosts of Cosmic Princes and Delegates Who are Rulers and Administrators in His Great Universe.

Ugwuoke347:






You are clearly naive and foolish.
Dismissing things you do not understand as mere myth shows you lack experience of the supra-sensible dimensions of life.
So much is not written in books.
So much cannot be understood without direct experience.
The Gods are more than real.
God Almighty reigns supreme over them all.
The Gods are rulers of different parts, substances, elements, aspects, activities, tasks and experiences in God's Creation.

You speak of the gods are gifted mortals venerated by lesser mortals.
Really? Gifted mortals? Mortals gifted by who?
Whoever that gave the gifts of exceptional endowments must be of far superior power.
In that case you subconsciously acknowledge that there is a being out there who is capable of upholding his chosen ones with gifts of exceptionalities and capabilities.
The man who says there is no God is truly a fool because he lies to himself. His soul knows the truth. There is God. There is also His Hosts of Cosmic Princes and Delegates Who are Rulers and Administrators in the Great Universe.

I don't have time to read a nonsensical post from a slave.

So much suffering in the world, yet some fools think there's one sky daddy up there controlling human affairs.

If the whites want to recolonize Africa today, their useless gods (Yahweh and Allah) can't do anything to prevent it.

Humans do all things and gods are useless. They are simply past (deified) humans that are long, long gone.

In the present, they're useless. I know some people will commit suicide if they find out the real truth about religion and the god they worship in ignorance.

It can be hard for some weak humans to live without the idea of a god.

A001:

I don't have time to read a nonsensical post from a slave.

You are foolish.
You are just full of flesh and blood.
You lack real direct experience of the Unseen.
That is why you would foolishly designate the Animistic Lords of Nature as departed ancestors of the native place.
Again it should be said you are very foolish and empty of the tiniest shred of experience of the Unseen world.
You rely on literature.
I rely on direct experience.
Now get lost!

jaephoenix:
What are you on about?

About just as you found, the claim disturbing, concerning the fact that traditional gods such as Sango, Obatala, Ogun and the rest all existed, yet when slave trade started, the same gods didn't do anything, so the god Baal, mentioned in 1 Kings 18:21-39, couldnt and wasnt able to do anything (i.e. couldn't answer the summoning by fire)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Ugwuoke347:





You are foolish.
You are just full of flesh and blood.
You lack real direct experience of the Unseen.
That is why you would foolishly designate the Animistic Lords of Nature as departed ancestors of the native place.
Again it should be said you are very foolish and empty of the tiniest shred of experience of the Unseen world.
You rely on literature.
I rely on direct experience.
Now get lost!

I didn't bother to read your tripe of a comment. Stop quoting me, oga

...

NNTR:
About just as you found, the claim disturbing, concerning the fact that traditional gods such as Sango, Obatala, Ogun and the rest all existed, yet when slave trade started, the same gods didn't do anything, so the god Baal, mentioned in 1 Kings 18:21-39, couldnt and wasnt able to do anything (i.e. couldn't answer the summoning by fire)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

What did your Yahweh do to save the Jews from the Holocaust? Nothing. Your god, Yahweh, including the fictitious Jesus Christ and the native gods are all useless.

A smart person leaves the matter of the gods and focuses solely on himself, family, and friends because family and friends are all we have in this cold world.

A001:
What did your Yahweh do to save the Jews from the Holocaust? Nothing.

Give the reason why you required YHWH to have saved the Ashkenazi Jews from the Holocaust

A001:
Your god, Yahweh, including the fictitious Jesus Christ and the native gods are all useless.

Lets put to test your claim about uselessness

1. What is the purpose of Jesus Christ on earth?
2. What is/are the purpose of native god(s) on earth?
3. Did Jesus Christ, while on earth, fulfil His intended purpose and so achieved, the desired outcome from fulfilling His purpose for being on earth then?
4. Did the native gods, while on earth, realise their intended purposes and achieve, the desired outcome, like fulfil the purposes for them being on earth then?

A001:
A smart person leaves the matter of the gods and focuses solely on himself, family, and friends because family and friends are all we have in this cold world.

Proverbs 26:12
Do you see a man [who is unteachable and] wise in his own eyes and full of self-conceit?
There is more hope for a fool than for him.

1. What is the ultimate purpose and overall effect of your, family's and friends' existence on earth?
2. Was the world, cold, to start with?
3. If the world was not cold to start with, then what brought the cold switch on?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}