“Render to Caesar what is Caesar’s” is a well-known quote that appears in Matthew 22:21 and is part of Jesus’ response to a joint attempt by the Herodians and Pharisees to make Jesus stumble in front of His own people.

The Herodians were a non-religious Jewish party who supported the dynasty of Herod and the general policy of the Roman government. They perceived that Christ’s pure and spiritual teaching and influence were antagonistic to their interests. The Pharisees, on the other hand, were members of an ancient Jewish sect who believed in the strict observance of oral traditions and the written Law of Moses. They didn’t believe that Christ was the Messiah, despite His many miracles during His earthly ministry. Although Herodians and Pharisees were at opposite ends of the political spectrum, their common hatred of Christ was enough for them to join forces to try to destroy Him.

Here is the context of Jesus’ command to “render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s”: in Matthew 22 Jesus had just returned to Jerusalem for the final time and recently finished sharing several parables with the crowd. Jesus’ enemies saw an opportunity to put Jesus on the spot in front of His followers. In verse 17, they say to Jesus, “Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” (ESV). It was a trick question, and they knew it. If Jesus answered, “No,” the Herodians would charge Him with treason against Rome. If He said, “Yes,” the Pharisees would accuse Him of disloyalty to the Jewish nation, and He would lose the support of the crowds. To pay taxes or not to pay taxes? The question was designed as a Catch-22.

Jesus’ response is nothing short of brilliant: “But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, ‘Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.’ And they brought him a denarius” (Matthew 22:18–19, ESV).

The denarius was a coin used as the tax money at the time. It was made of silver and featured an image of the emperor with an inscription calling him “divine.” The Jews considered such images idolatry, forbidden by the second commandment. This was another reason why, if Jesus answered, “Yes,” He would be in trouble. His acceptance of the tax as “lawful” could have been seen as a rejection of the second commandment, thus casting doubt on His claim to be the Son of God.

With the coin displayed in front of them, Jesus said, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” The Herodians and Pharisees, stating the obvious, said, “Caesar’s.” Then Jesus brought an end to their foolish tricks: “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21, ESV). Upon hearing this, Jesus’ enemies marveled and went away (verse 22).

When Jesus said, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s,” He was drawing a sharp distinction between two kingdoms. There is a kingdom of this world, and Caesar holds power over it. But there is another kingdom, not of this world, and Jesus is King of that (John 18:36). Christians are part of both kingdoms, at least temporarily. Under Caesar, we have certain obligations that involve material things. Under Christ, we have other obligations that involve things eternal. If Caesar demands money, give it to him—it’s only mammon. But make sure you also give God what He demands.

Caesar minted coins, as he had a right to do, and he demanded some coins in return, as was his right. After all, his image was stamped on what he had made. God has “minted” the human soul, and He has stamped His image on every one (Genesis 1:27). So give Caesar his due—the temporary stuff of this world—but make sure to give God His due: “Offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness” (Romans 6:13).

Nice2023:


“Render to Caesar what is Caesar’s” is a well-known quote that appears in Matthew 22:21 and is part of Jesus’ response to a joint attempt by the Herodians and Pharisees to make Jesus stumble in front of His own people.

The Herodians were a non-religious Jewish party who supported the dynasty of Herod and the general policy of the Roman government. They perceived that Christ’s pure and spiritual teaching and influence were antagonistic to their interests. The Pharisees, on the other hand, were members of an ancient Jewish sect who believed in the strict observance of oral traditions and the written Law of Moses. They didn’t believe that Christ was the Messiah, despite His many miracles during His earthly ministry. Although Herodians and Pharisees were at opposite ends of the political spectrum, their common hatred of Christ was enough for them to join forces to try to destroy Him.

Here is the context of Jesus’ command to “render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s”: in Matthew 22 Jesus had just returned to Jerusalem for the final time and recently finished sharing several parables with the crowd. Jesus’ enemies saw an opportunity to put Jesus on the spot in front of His followers. In verse 17, they say to Jesus, “Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” (ESV). It was a trick question, and they knew it. If Jesus answered, “No,” the Herodians would charge Him with treason against Rome. If He said, “Yes,” the Pharisees would accuse Him of disloyalty to the Jewish nation, and He would lose the support of the crowds. To pay taxes or not to pay taxes? The question was designed as a Catch-22.

Jesus’ response is nothing short of brilliant: “But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, ‘Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.’ And they brought him a denarius” (Matthew 22:18–19, ESV).

The denarius was a coin used as the tax money at the time. It was made of silver and featured an image of the emperor with an inscription calling him “divine.” The Jews considered such images idolatry, forbidden by the second commandment. This was another reason why, if Jesus answered, “Yes,” He would be in trouble. His acceptance of the tax as “lawful” could have been seen as a rejection of the second commandment, thus casting doubt on His claim to be the Son of God.

With the coin displayed in front of them, Jesus said, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” The Herodians and Pharisees, stating the obvious, said, “Caesar’s.” Then Jesus brought an end to their foolish tricks: “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21, ESV). Upon hearing this, Jesus’ enemies marveled and went away (verse 22).

When Jesus said, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s,” He was drawing a sharp distinction between two kingdoms. There is a kingdom of this world, and Caesar holds power over it. But there is another kingdom, not of this world, and Jesus is King of that (John 18:36). Christians are part of both kingdoms, at least temporarily. Under Caesar, we have certain obligations that involve material things. Under Christ, we have other obligations that involve things eternal. If Caesar demands money, give it to him—it’s only mammon. But make sure you also give God what He demands.

Caesar minted coins, as he had a right to do, and he demanded some coins in return, as was his right. After all, his image was stamped on what he had made. God has “minted” the human soul, and He has stamped His image on every one (Genesis 1:27). So give Caesar his due—the temporary stuff of this world—but make sure to give God His due: “Offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness” (Romans 6:13).

Your explanation is interesting. I have a question.
Are Christians to be part of ceasers' world by participating in the political powers of this world?

Caesar: Politicians/Rulers who determines so many things that happens within the society.

God: Creator to whom we must render exclusive devotion.

Caesar's dues ~ Taxes, Permits and the Fears regarding constitutions they set up.

God's dues ~ Worship, Reliance for our future prospect.

So whatever Politicians/Rulers demands as long as it doesn't contradicts/stop us from worshiping our God or relying on His plans for our future we must OBEY them!

Michael547:

Your explanation is interesting. I have a question.
Are Christians to be part of ceasers' world by participating in the political powers of this world?

Read Matthew 20 vs 20 - 28 where Jesus Christ explicitly tells you not to rule over others as the gentiles are given to.

Kobojunkie:
Read Matthew 20 vs 20 - 28 where Jesus Christ explicitly tells you not to rule over others as the gentiles are given to.

The verses you referred to is actually where Jesus admonished the sons of Zebedee that was seeking for special positions in God's kingdom to emulate His servant leadership style and not seek to lord over there followers like unbelievers.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't participate in politics. When the righteous is on the throne, the people rejoices. Daniel, Joseph, Esther, Mordecai were politicians and children of God too

ritzyvic1:
■The verses you referred to is actually where Jesus admonished the sons of Zebedee that was seeking for special positions in God's kingdom to emulate His servant leadership style and not seek to lord over there followers like unbelievers.

■ It doesn't mean we shouldn't participate in politics.
■When the righteous is on the throne, the people rejoices. Daniel, Joseph, Esther, Mordecai were politicians and children of God too

1. You are meant to read through the entire passage not focus on the brothers.

2. So, where Jesus Christ instructed His followers not to set themselves as Gentile politicians do over their fellow brothers, Jesus Christ was simply smoking weed?.

3. Wetin concern Jesus Christ with Daniel. Esther, Joseph, etc., all of who were instead subjects of God's Old Laws and the Law of Moses which was His Constitution to them in the Land of Canaan?

Kobojunkie:
1. You are meant to read through the entire passage not focus on the brothers.

2. So, where Jesus Christ instructed His followers not to set themselves as Gentile politicians do over their fellow brothers, Jesus Christ was simply smoking weed?.

3. Wetin concern Jesus Christ with Daniel. Esther, Joseph, etc., all of who were instead subjects of God's Old Laws and the Law of Moses which was His Constitution to them in the Land of Canaan?

What exactly are we arguing over?
That Christians shouldn't participate in politics?

Your point is that based on this particular verses I posted below that we shouldn't, right?

But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles have absolute power and Lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them [tyrannizing them]. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your [willing and humble] slave;
Matthew 20:25‭-‬27 AMP
https://bible.com/bible/1588/mat.20.25-27.AMP

From the part I bolded, you can see that he means that when we have any leadership position, we should use it to serve humanity just like he did. There's nothing confusing here.

ritzyvic1:
■What exactly are we arguing over? That Christians shouldn't participate in politics? Your point is that based on this particular verses I posted below that we shouldn't, right?

But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles have absolute power and Lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them [tyrannizing them]. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your [willing and humble] slave;
Matthew 20:25‭-‬27 AMP
https://bible.com/bible/1588/mat.20.25-27.AMP

From the part I bolded, you can see that he means that when we any leadership position, we should use it to serve humanity just like he did. There's nothing confusing here.

1. The question asked was

Michael547:

Your explanation is interesting. I have a question. Are Christians to be part of ceasers' world by participating in the political powers of this world?

The answer to that is clearly expressed in red in your own post there. Jesus Christ warned His followers not to engage in the politics of this world. So, I am not certain why you reject what Jesus Christ said in that passage — His answer there is that none of His own engage in the politicking of the world.

ritzyvic1:


What exactly are we arguing over?
That Christians shouldn't participate in politics?

Your point is that based on this particular verses I posted below that we shouldn't, right?

But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles have absolute power and Lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them [tyrannizing them]. It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your [willing and humble] slave;
Matthew 20:25‭-‬27 AMP
https://bible.com/bible/1588/mat.20.25-27.AMP

From the part I bolded, you can see that he means that when we have any leadership position, we should use it to serve humanity just like he did. There's nothing confusing here.

You have an interesting point. I would like to ask some questions. You can chat me up on WhatsApp on 08167469103.

Kobojunkie:
1. The question asked was The answer to that is clearly expressed in red in your own post there. Jesus Christ warned His followers not to engage in the politics of this world. So, I am not certain why you reject what Jesus Christ said in that passage — His answer there is that none of His own engage in the politicking of the world.

We are the salt and light of the world (Matthew 5:13). We are meant to be an example to others in all spheres of human endeavour, including politics. Righteous people that occupied leadership positions shape the world politics and ensure that there's fairness and justice.

Imagine if Esther wasn't a queen in her own days, the Jewish race would have been exterminated and there would be no Jesus not to talk of Christianity. If the earth is the Lord's and it's fullness, who should be exercising authority here, his children or others?

ritzyvic1:
■We are the salt and light of the world (Matthew 5:13). We are meant to be an example to others in all spheres of human endeavour, including politics. Righteous people that occupied leadership positions shape the world politics and ensure that there's fairness justice.

■Imagine if Esther wasn't a queen in her own days, the Jewish race would have been exterminated and there would be Jesus not to talk of Christianity. If the earth is the Lord's and it's fullness, who should be exercising authority here, his children or others?

1. Being the salt of the earth has absolutely nothing to do with the politics of this world. I don't know where you got the crooked idea that salt has to do with world politics but I suggest you throw it right back in that murk where you pulled it out of. Basically, Jesus Christ did not call His followers to change the world so, don't delude yourself that we are here to somehow shape the world and all that nonsense you spew there. Instead, as Jesus Christ predicate, the trend in the world will continue as He said it would until the end when He returns and then God takes over.

2. Again, Jesus Christ no send anyone Esther or anything of what is contained in the Old Law of Moses — the Constitution of the state of Israel in the Land of Canaan. Instead, those who are called by Jesus Christ are called to live according to the Constitution of the Kingdom of God, a Nation that is not of this world. Hence engaging in the politics of this world amounts to wanting to hold on to the world and the Kingdom of God at the same time. Unfortunately, as Jesus Christ made clear in His teachings, you can't serve two masters in the Kingdom of God meaning it is impossible to be a follower of Jesus Christ and a politician in this world.

Kobojunkie:
1. Being the salt of the earth has absolutely nothing to do with the politics of this world. I don't know where you got the crooked idea that salt has to do with world politics but I suggest you throw it right back in that murk where you pulled it out of. Basically, Jesus Christ did not call His followers to change the world so, don't delude yourself that we are here to somehow shape the world and all that nonsense you spew there. Instead, as Jesus Christ predicate, the trend in the world will continue as He said it would until the end when He returns and then God takes over.

2. Again, Jesus Christ no send anyone Esther or anything of what is contained in the Old Law of Moses — the Constitution of the state of Israel in the Land of Canaan. Instead, those who are called by Jesus Christ are called to live according to the Constitution of the Kingdom of God, a Nation that is not of this world. Hence engaging in the politics of this world amounts to wanting to hold on to the world and the Kingdom of God at the same time. Unfortunately, as Jesus Christ made clear in His teachings, you can't serve two masters in the Kingdom of God meaning it is impossible to be a follower of Jesus Christ and a politician in this world.

I'd appreciate if you would be more civil in your choice of words as person that professes knowledge of the scriptures.
But back to the point, I'll try to help you see reasons why you shouldn't continue holding to that misconception that'll potentially limit your ability to influence your generation positively.

Firstly, God of the old testament is still the God of new testament. Jesus clearly stated that he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. So when God used righteous leaders like David, Joseph and the Esther we talked to fulfill his purpose in those days, it's very much in order then as it is today.

After God humbled Nebuchadnezzar, he confessed with his mouth that political power belongs to God and he is the one that gives it to whoever it pleases and his children is not excluded.

However, we as Christians recognise the fact that we are being prepared for the kingdom of God that is yet to come but doesn't mean that we have to deprive ourselves of the right exercise influence as leaders in our segment of time while we wait.

God's principles never change and his idea is that leadership positions should be occupied by godly men both now and then

The message here is simple and the logic profound. Give to Caesar what belongs to him and give to God what belongs to him.

The word “give” here literally means to “give back.” In other words, our taxes our obligatory, we owe them to the government as part of our financial stewardship.

Jesus is drawing a distinction between the two kingdoms. God’s and Caesar’s. Caesar is the king of this world. But Jesus is the king of the eternal world. Followers of Jesus exist in both of these kingdoms, at least temporarily.

Under Caesar there are certain obligations that involve material things, money. But under Christ the obligations involve eternal things.

What Jesus is saying is if Caesar wants money, give it to him. It’s his anyway, his image is stamped on it. So, give him the temporary things he’s due. But don’t neglect God. While Caesar’s is over the temporary things of this world, God is over what’s eternal.

ritzyvic1:


I'd appreciate if you would be more civil in your choice of words as person that professes knowledge of the scriptures.
But back to the point, I'll try to help you see reasons why you shouldn't continue holding to that misconception that'll potentially limit your ability to influence your generation positively.

Firstly, God of the old testament is still the God of new testament. Jesus clearly stated that he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. So when God used righteous leaders like David, Joseph and the Esther we talked to fulfill his purpose in those days, it's very much in order then as it is today.

After God humbled Nebuchadnezzar, he confessed with his mouth that political power belongs to God and he is the one that gives it to whoever it pleases and his children is not excluded.

However, we as Christians recognise the fact that we are being prepared for the kingdom of God that is yet to come but doesn't mean that we have to deprive ourselves of the right exercise influence as leaders in our segment of time while we wait.

God's principles never change and his idea is that leadership positions should be occupied by godly men both now and then

Did Jesus in Anyway got involved in the politics of his time thereby setting an example for Christians?

ritzyvic1:
■ I'd appreciate if you would be more civil in your choice of words as person that professes knowledge of the scriptures. But back to the point, I'll try to help you see reasons why you shouldn't continue holding to that misconception that'll potentially limit your ability to influence your generation positively.
■ Firstly, God of the old testament is still the God of new testament. Jesus clearly stated that he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. So when God used righteous leaders like David, Joseph and the Esther we talked to fulfill his purpose in those days, it's very much in order then as it is today. After God humbled Nebuchadnezzar, he confessed with his mouth that political power belongs to God and he is the one that gives it to whoever it pleases and his children is not excluded.
■However, we as Christians recognise the fact that we are being prepared for the kingdom of God that is yet to come but doesn't mean that we have to deprive ourselves of the right exercise influence as leaders in our segment of time while we wait. God's principles never change and his idea is that leadership positions should be occupied by godly men both now and then

1. huh?

2. Again...
■ The Old Covenant God made with Israel is what governs the relationship they had with Isreal in the Land of Canaan - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20.
■ Now, Jesus Christ is the New Covenant God promised to send to the House of Jacob, and this Covenant is a different and separate Law from that of the Old Law. So, when you ask of that which applies as far as those who belong to Jesus Christ, you cannot and should never confuse it with that which applies instead to those who are of God's Old Law - Matthew 11 vs 28 - 30 & Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30. Jesus Christ Himself taught you not to mix Old wine with New wine in reference to the agreements.

The separation that exists between the two Laws above means what applied to Joseph, Esther, Daniel, etc. does not apply to those who are followers of Jesus Christ. God, Himself set it up that way and taught that it should be kept that way too — there are two different Laws and two different Kingdoms involved here.

3. Wrong! The Kingdom of God arrived over 2000 years ago. Jesus Christ clearly informed you in His teachings that the Kingdom of God exists inside, and all around of those who are born-again. If you are born-again yet holding onto the world and its politics, it means you reject the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you are not born-again, it means you don't want Jesus Christ but want the world instead. So, which one are you?

SerikiFulani:
■What Jesus is saying is if Caesar wants money, give it to him. It’s his anyway, his image is stamped on it. So, give him the temporary things he’s due.
■But don’t neglect God. While Caesar’s is over the temporary things of this world, God is over what’s eternal.

1. All these epistles over a simple command to endeavor to pay one's taxes to the government. Na wa oo!..

2. So, does God also want our money then?

Kobojunkie:
1. All these epistles over a simple command to endeavor to pay one's taxes to the government. Na wa oo!..

2. So, does God also want our money then?

I had to explain so OP can grab something.

God doesn't need our money.... How can someone who created Space,The Oceans,Mountains, Planets etc need material things? Lol.....God looks at the hearts of man,not his appearance or intelligence.

Kobojunkie:
1. huh?

2. Again...
■ The Old Covenant God made with Israel is what governs the relationship they had with Isreal in the Land of Canaan - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20.
■ Now, Jesus Christ is the New Covenant God promised to send to the House of Jacob, and this Covenant is a different and separate Law from that of the Old Law. So, when you ask of that which applies as far as those who belong to Jesus Christ, you cannot and should never confuse it with that which applies instead to those who are of God's Old Law - Matthew 11 vs 28 - 30 & Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30. Jesus Christ Himself taught you not to mix Old wine with New wine in reference to the agreements.

The separation that exists between the two Laws above means what applied to Joseph, Esther, Daniel, etc. does not apply to those who are followers of Jesus Christ. God, Himself set it up that way and taught that it should be kept that way too — there are two different Laws and two different Kingdoms involved here.

3. Wrong! The Kingdom of God arrived over 2000 years ago. Jesus Christ clearly informed you in His teachings that the Kingdom of God exists inside, and all around of those who are born-again. If you are born-again yet holding onto the world and its politics, it means you reject the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you are not born-again, it means you don't want Jesus Christ but want the world instead. So, which one are you?

I would need more clarification on your third point. You said the kingdom of God exists inside those that are born again. What does that mean? You can also WhatsApp me on 08167469103

Michael547:
I would need more clarification on your third point. You said the kingdom of God exists inside those that are born again. What does that mean? You can also WhatsApp me on 08167469103

Luke 17 vs 20 - 21. When a person becomes born-again, that new spirit that is born anew in one exists both inside and all around that person - John 3 vs 1 - 8.

Kobojunkie:
Luke 17 vs 20 - 21. When a person becomes born-again, that new spirit that is born anew in one exists both inside and all around that person - John 3 vs 1 - 8.

Is the spirit itself the kingdom of God?

Kobojunkie:
1. huh?

2. Again...
■ The Old Covenant God made with Israel is what governs the relationship they had with Isreal in the Land of Canaan - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20.
■ Now, Jesus Christ is the New Covenant God promised to send to the House of Jacob, and this Covenant is a different and separate Law from that of the Old Law. So, when you ask of that which applies as far as those who belong to Jesus Christ, you cannot and should never confuse it with that which applies instead to those who are of God's Old Law - Matthew 11 vs 28 - 30 & Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30. Jesus Christ Himself taught you not to mix Old wine with New wine in reference to the agreements.

The separation that exists between the two Laws above means what applied to Joseph, Esther, Daniel, etc. does not apply to those who are followers of Jesus Christ. God, Himself set it up that way and taught that it should be kept that way too — there are two different Laws and two different Kingdoms involved here.

3. Wrong! The Kingdom of God arrived over 2000 years ago. Jesus Christ clearly informed you in His teachings that the Kingdom of God exists inside, and all around of those who are born-again. If you are born-again yet holding onto the world and its politics, it means you reject the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you are not born-again, it means you don't want Jesus Christ but want the world instead. So, which one are you?

1. Jesus never for once declared the mosaic law null and void by reason of his coming. He made it clear that he came to fulfill it. All those curses that the law prescribed for sinners was nailed to his cross. Instead of executing sinners, they now receive mercy because he has died in thier stead and his blood now serves as a propitiation.
That core essence of the law remains valid which is that men should fear and worship God alone. There's no dichotomy anywhere now. God's righteous principles are unchangeable His method of dealing with humans changed after the death of his son from strict justice to mercy.

His principles of godly leadership remains the same and his children are the best qualified based on that.

Lastly, take your time and read about the Armenian genocide. That's the consequence of naive Christians abandoning Christ's advice to occupy till he returns and leaving leadership positions for peoples that will wipe them out once they're in charge of all the armed forces

ritzyvic1:


1. Jesus never for once declared the mosaic law null and void by reason of his coming. He made it clear that he came to fulfill it. All those curses that the law prescribed for sinners was nailed to his cross. Instead of executing sinners, they now receive mercy because he has died in thier stead and his blood now serves as a propitiation.
That core essence of the law remains valid which is that men should fear and worship God alone. There's no dichotomy anywhere now. God's righteous principles are unchangeable His method of dealing with humans changed after the death of his son from strict justice to mercy.

His principles of godly leadership remains the same and his children are the best qualified based on that.

Lastly, take your time and read about the Armenian genocide. That's the consequence of naive Christians abandoning Christ's advice to occupy till he returns and leaving leadership positions for peoples that will wipe them out once they're in charge of all the armed forces

Did Jesus in Anyway got involved in the politics of his time thereby setting an example for Christians?

Michael547:

Is the spirit itself the kingdom of God?

Everyone in the Kingdom of God has to be born of spirit so it follows that the spirit has something to do with the Kingdom--- Jesus Christ said you must be born of spirit in order to become a part of of Kingdom of God--- doesn't it? Spirit may not be representative of the Kingdom of God but citizenship in it requires one have spirit.

Kobojunkie:
Everyone in the Kingdom of God has to be born of spirit so it follows that the spirit has something to do with the Kingdom--- Jesus Christ said you must be born of spirit in order to become a part of of Kingdom of God--- doesn't it? Spirit may not be representative of the Kingdom of God but citizenship in it requires one have spirit.

So if the spirit itself is not the representative of the kingdom of God, How could the kingdom of God come 2000 years ago according to you? Or you could explain more of what exactly the kingdom is.

ritzyvic1:
1. Jesus never for once declared the mosaic law null and void by reason of his coming. He made it clear that he came to fulfill it. All those curses that the law prescribed for sinners was nailed to his cross. Instead of executing sinners, they now receive mercy because he has died in thier stead and his blood now serves as a propitiation. That core essence of the law remains valid which is that men should fear and worship God alone. There's no dichotomy anywhere now. God's righteous principles are unchangeable His method of dealing with humans changed after the death of his son from strict justice to mercy.

2. His principles of godly leadership remains the same and his children are the best qualified based on that.

3. Lastly, take your time and read about the Armenian genocide. That's the consequence of naive Christians abandoning Christ's advice to occupy till he returns and leaving leadership positions for peoples that will wipe them out once they're in charge of all the armed forces

1. Let's try our possible best here to stick to the topic abeg! Again, you are instead told that Jesus Christ came to give to the people a different and separate Law from the Old Law — no annulments suggested— and that New Law is for a different Kingdom which is not of this world.

2. In the Kingdom of God, the Nation for which Jesus Christ recruited His followers, He made clear to His followers that He alone is the Teacher, Master, Head/Leader/authority, Helper, Shepherd, etc., over all of those who belong to Him - Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10 & Matthew 6 vs 24 & John 10 vs 11..... Consequently, no other can occupy any leadership role over those who belong to Him.

3. That is meaningless to this here discussion!

Michael547:
So if the spirit itself is not the representative of the kingdom of God, How could the kingdom of God come 2000 years ago according to you? Or you could explain more of what exactly the kingdom is.

The Kingdom of God arrived when Jesus Christ ratified the Constitution of the Kingdom of God on the cross - Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30. Citizenship for individuals in the Kingdom of God is obtained only through being born-again aka born of water and born of the spirit - John 3 vs 1 - 8 Those who become born-again gain entry into the kingdom of God — the Kingdom of God is inside and all around them - Luke 17 vs 20 - 21.

Kobojunkie:
The Kingdom of God arrived when Jesus Christ ratified the Constitution of the Kingdom of God on the cross - Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30. Citizenship for individuals in the Kingdom of God is obtained only through being born-again aka born of water and born of the spirit - John 3 vs 1 - 8 Those who become born-again gain entry into the kingdom of God — the Kingdom of God is inside and all around them - Luke 17 vs 20 - 21.

Ok talking about the kingdom itself being "inside" born again christians, in luke 17 vs 20, 21 Jesus told the Pharisees who were not born again that the kingdom was in their midst. What did Jesus mean? Did he mean that the kingdom was inside them too?

Michael547:

Ok talking about the kingdom itself being "inside" born again christians, in luke 17 vs 20, 21 Jesus told the Pharisees who were not born again that the kingdom was in their midst. What did Jesus mean? Did he mean that the kingdom was inside them too?

In Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11, we read that even some of the Pharisees showed up to be baptized by John the Baptist, so it is completely right to assume all of the Pharisees could not have had the born-again experience. By the way, I believe it was only after the death of Jesus Christ that the experience was made real for all, including His disciples - Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30.

As for being born-again, understand also that access into the Kingdom of God is granted through either of the Broad gate which leads to destruction(Hell) or the Narrow gate which leads to True life(Heaven) at the end - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30. What this means is that even those who will end up in eternal damnation(Hell) are all also born-again. The Kingdom of God - eternal life and new spirit exists in them all.

That said, Jesus Christ used the Pharisees to teach His followers a lot of things. So, do not get tied up on that which does not matter. Instead it is His teachings and commandments that are essential in it all, that which those who are of Him are called to obey.

Kobojunkie:
In Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11, we read that even some of the Pharisees showed up to be baptized by John the Baptist, so it is completely right to assume all of the Pharisees could not have had the born-again experience. By the way, I believe it was only after the death of Jesus Christ that the experience was made real for all, including His disciples - Matthew 26 vs 24 - 30.

As for being born-again, understand also that access into the Kingdom of God is granted through either of the Broad gate which leads to destruction(Hell) or the Narrow gate which leads to True life(Heaven) at the end - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30. What this means is that even those who will end up in eternal damnation(Hell) are all also born-again. The Kingdom of God - eternal life and new spirit exists in them all.

That said, Jesus Christ used the Pharisees to teach His followers a lot of things. So, do not get tied up on that which does not matter. Instead it is His teachings and commandments that are essential in it all, that which those who are of Him are called to obey.

Are you saying again that there is a difference between been 'born again' and 'born again experience'. On the other hand, It is clear from the context of luke 17: 20, 21 that the group of Pharisees there were not part of Jesus Disciples or even born again. Jesus told the Pharisees in Matthew 23:13 that they would not enter into the Kingdom of heaven. So how could the kingdom be inside of them according to luke 17:20, 21.

Michael547:
■Are you saying again that there is a difference between been 'born again' and 'born again experience'.
■On the other hand, It is clear from the context of luke 17: 20, 21 that the group of Pharisees there were not part of Jesus Disciples or even born again.
■ Jesus told the Pharisees in Matthew 23:13 that they would not enter into the Kingdom of heaven. So how could the kingdom be inside of them according to luke 17:20, 21.

1. Nope! It is one and the same experience. Recall the Kingdom of God arrived after Jesus Christ's blood died and was raised.

2. What do you mean?

3. Inside of the Kingdom of God exists both Heaven(Eternal Reward) and Hell(Eternal damnation) - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 .

Kobojunkie:
1. Nope! It is one and the same experience. Recall the Kingdom of God arrived after Jesus Christ's blood died and was raised.

2. What do you mean?

3. Inside of the Kingdom of God exists both Heaven(Eternal Reward) and Hell(Eternal damnation) - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 .

You claimed that the Kingdom of God is inside of those who are born again. The Pharisees In luke 17:20, 21, were they born again or part of Jesus Disciples for the kingdom to be inside them?

Kobojunkie:
1. Nope! It is one and the same experience. Recall the Kingdom of God arrived after Jesus Christ's blood died and was raised.

Where did the Kingdom arrive to and In what form?