Let's talk about that.
Who knows anything about the demiurge?
Anyone?

Surgeman:
Let's talk about that. Who knows anything about the demiurge? Anyone?

It has nothing to do with the teachings of YHWH or Jesus Christ for certain.

Kobojunkie:
It has nothing to do with the teachings of YHWH or Jesus Christ for certain.

No it hasn't. It's another god made up to explain how the world came into existence as understood by certain other people in a different place.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge

You could fill us in on gnosticism and the beliefs.

I am not a teacher.
My duty is to bring certain topics to public awareness. The curious ones will do the work, apply critical thinking and be led by their intuition towards the true light.
Who knows, maybe my work here is done.

Surgeman:
I am not a teacher. My duty is to bring certain topics to public awareness. The curious ones will do the work, apply critical thinking and be led by their intuition towards the true light.
Who knows, maybe my work here is done.

Your duty is to bring to public awareness teachings you are unable to expound on yourself. what is the point of this duty of yours?

Kobojunkie:
Your duty is to bring to public awareness teachings you are unable to expound on yourself. what is the point of this duty of yours?

I already answered your question, Kobojunkie. And it looks like you're looking for a reason to argue or fight but will not indulge. Have a better day, man.

Surgeman:
Let's talk about that.
Who knows anything about the demiurge?
Anyone?

Curiosity isn't born out of a vacuum, a menial explanation on something could go further than you think.

The demiurge is the believed creator of the material world in gnosticism, and also the god of the hebrews and old testament.

To have some perspective, one might want to learn a bit about the universe, the cosmology of gnosticism. So, here's my best explanation on what I know.
At the center of all the exists is an entirely spiritual and perfect light/being called the Monad, this being was capable of spontaneous creation of lesser beings, called emanations, these emanations were often in pairs and represented different abstractions.
One of these were Sophia (wisdom).
The story of how Sophia fell from grace is vague, but she ended up creating the demiurge ("chaos son" ) without her other pair. This resulted in an imperfect and flawed being, which in her shame, she attempted to cover up by placing him somewhere far away from the other emanations, in the darkness.

From this the Demiurge came to think it was alone, and in it's loneliness and imperfection created the flawed material world, but it also possessed some "light" stolen from Sophia, which was used to create the soul.

Gnostics have this dualistic belief that the material world and flesh is corrupt and flawed, and the spirit is pure.

How does Christianity and Jesus fit into this beliefs?

Well Jesus was Sophia's other pair, and was sent to redeem Sophia and return her to grace, to rejoin the fullness of the "light" ?
After which he is sent down to earth to give man gnosis (knowledge) necessary to save themselves from the material world and return them to the purity of the spirit and light.

IMAliyu:
■How does Christianity and Jesus fit into this beliefs? Well Jesus was Sophia's other pair, and was sent to redeem Sophia and return her to grace, to rejoin the fullness of the "light" ?
■ After which he is sent down to earth to give man gnosis (knowledge) necessary to save themselves from the material world and return them to the purity of the spirit and light.

1. How exactly is Jesus Christ Sophia's other pair when He made it known that His teachings came directly from the Father to Him --- not His own?.

2. Knowledge necessary to save themselves? Or instead knowledge necessary to become worthy of Him as their savior?

Kobojunkie:
1. How exactly is Jesus Christ Sophia's other pair when He made it known that His teachings came directly from the Father to Him --- not His own?.

His "father" the Monad, sent him to redeem Sophia, and to take the form of a man to save humanity.
Sophia was just his other pair an emanation. She represents the holy spirit. In the context of Gnostic Christianity

Yeah.. I'm just explaining my understanding of the belief system, the same why I would for Greek mythology, it's not something I hold personal nor believe in.

2. Knowledge necessary to save themselves? Or instead knowledge necessary to become worthy of Him as their savior?

Nah, it's knowledge necessary to save themselves.
"principal element of salvation is direct knowledge of the hidden divinity, attained via mystical or esoteric insight" - gnosticism Wikipedia.
Gnosticism is rather more similar to Buddhism in this regard, where salvation is through some form of enlightenment (gnosis), and not a savior. The savior was just there to give men knowledge on how to achieve that enlightenment.

There is a reason this form of Christianity was seen as deeply heretical and was wiped out.

IMAliyu:
■His "father" the Monad, sent him to redeem Sophia, and to take the form of a man to save humanity. Sophia was just his other pair an emanation. She represents the holy spirit. In the context of Gnostic Christianity
■ Yeah.. I'm just explaining my understanding of the belief system, the same why I would for Greek mythology, it's not something I hold personal nor believe in. Nah, it's knowledge necessary to save themselves. "principal element of salvation is direct knowledge of the hidden divinity, attained via mystical or esoteric insight" - gnosticism Wikipedia. Gnosticism is rather more similar to Buddhism in this regard, where salvation is through some form of enlightenment (gnosis), and not a savior. The savior was just there to give men knowledge on how to achieve that enlightenment. There is a reason this form of Christianity was seen as deeply heretical and was wiped out.

1. Redeem Sophia? Sophia represents the Holy Spirit? That makes no sense given that the Holy Spirit lived inside of Jesus Christ from His birth.

2. I am also just pointing out the fact that the Gnostic doctrines I have heard to date don't add up as far as the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ, and much of the Old Testament teachings from the Prophets of Old. Well, they were wiped out by other equally heretical beliefs so no hooray there. It is the way of religion, I guess.

I have quite a bit of info on the subject and it is the Gnostic belief system that forms the basis of my own. The Gnostic worldview is one of the only ideologies concerning the wicked realities of this world that has made the most sense to me to date. I do have many resources that I would love to share here, but I definitely don't feel like arguing with a bunch of close-minded individuals either. Perhaps, I may share them later.

Surgeman:


I already answered your question, Kobojunkie. And it looks like you're looking for a reason to argue or fight but will not indulge. Have a better day, man.

This is precisely why many people, including myself don't bother to share info here, because no one has time for energy drainers and time wasters who want to do nothing but argue.

Gnosis777:
This is precisely why many people, including myself don't bother to share info here, because no one has time for energy drainers and time wasters who want to do nothing but argue.

You just want an avenue where you can spew forth any idea swimming around in your head without necessarily needing to field questions regarding claims you make, abi? You should probably ask Nairaland to create for you your own private space, or head on directly to the Diary section instead.

Kobojunkie:
You just want an avenue where you can spew forth any idea swimming around in your head without necessarily needing to field questions regarding claims you make, abi? You should probably ask Nairaland to create for you your own private space, or head on directly to the [[/b]b]Diary section instead.

Or I can simply tell you to beat it and get off my comment and that I will not entertain you any further. Bye!

Gnosis777:
Or I can simply tell you to beat it and get off my comment and that I will not entertain you any further. Bye!

If you can't even answer questions regarding a belief you claim to hold to, I think you ought to be the one to tell yourself to beat it.

Aliyu, you are a great teacher and a blessing to this thread. Expect something pleasant to happen in your life within the next 48hrs. If you believe it strongly enough, it will manifest.

May you live long.

IMAliyu:

Curiosity isn't born out of a vacuum, a menial explanation on something could go further than you think.

The demiurge is the believed creator of the material world in gnosticism, and also the god of the hebrews and old testament.

To have some perspective, one might want to learn a bit about the universe, the cosmology of gnosticism. So, here's my best explanation on what I know.
At the center of all the exists is an entirely spiritual and perfect light/being called the Monad, this being was capable of spontaneous creation of lesser beings, called emanations, these emanations were often in pairs and represented different abstractions.
One of these were Sophia (wisdom).
The story of how Sophia fell from grace is vague, but she ended up creating the demiurge ("chaos son" ) without her other pair. This resulted in an imperfect and flawed being, which in her shame, she attempted to cover up by placing him somewhere far away from the other emanations, in the darkness.

From this the Demiurge came to think it was alone, and in it's loneliness and imperfection created the flawed material world, but it also possessed some "light" stolen from Sophia, which was used to create the soul.

Gnostics have this dualistic belief that the material world and flesh is corrupt and flawed, and the spirit is pure.

How does Christianity and Jesus fit into this beliefs?

Well Jesus was Sophia's other pair, and was sent to redeem Sophia and return her to grace, to rejoin the fullness of the "light" ?
After which he is sent down to earth to give man gnosis (knowledge) necessary to save themselves from the material world and return them to the purity of the spirit and light.

I have no doubt in my mind that you not only lack understanding but also are a covert narcissist. [b][/b]You [b] beat it and I won't be gracing you and your false intellect with any further responses.

Kobojunkie:
If you can't even answer questions regarding a belief you claim to hold to, I think you ought to be the one to tell yourself to beat it.

Surgeman:
I have no doubt in my mind that you not only lack understanding but also are a covert narcissist. [b][/b]You [b] beat it and I won't be gracing you and your false intellect with any further responses.

Wait a second... you can't explain the topic, a belief which you pretend to hold but you can explain my person? WoW!

Kobojunkie:
Wait a second... you can't explain the topic, a belief which you pretend to hold but you can explain my person? WoW!

Gnosticism is deep. Its not something that can be easily explained in a few lines. But just know that Gnosticism does justice to Jesus and his teachings. If only you can experience it. Its like following the white rabbit out of the matrix. It makes everything clear.

43Ronin:
■ Gnosticism is deep. Its not something that can be easily explained in a few lines. But just know that Gnosticism does justice to Jesus and his teachings.
■ If only you can experience it. Its like following the white rabbit out of the matrix. It makes everything clear.

1. Are you at least able to explain how gnosticism does justice to Jesus Christ and His teachings which relate to the Kingdom of Priests God promised to create for Himself of the stock of Israel in Exodus 19 vs 6 -- the Kingdom of God?

2. Is this gnostic experience different from the experience which Jesus Christ described in His teachings and commandments, God's Law and Constitution in His Nation of Priests?

Kobojunkie:
1. Are you at least able to explain how gnosticism does justice to Jesus Christ and His teachings which relate to the Kingdom of Priests God promised to create for Himself of the stock of Israel in Exodus 19 vs 6 -- the Kingdom of God?

2. Is this gnostic experience different from the experience which Jesus Christ described in His teachings and commandments, God's Law and Constitution in His Nation of Priests?

Honestly it's so vast but I will try to answer your questions as much as I can.
1. What do Priests do in the old testament? Offer animal or human sacrifices to jehova for sin or thanksgiving. You see the real god(who is not yhwh or Jehovah) does not need animal, human or blood sacrifices because he is perfect and not under any laws. He doesn't have a "chosen Israeli race" cos we are all God's children and cannot send Israeli people to go wipe out other tribes worshiping other God's because he created other gods and thus not in competition with them.
2: as for the experience what you have in the bible are fragments or titbit of Jesus true teachings.... for example the only conversation had in the bible with His desciples are about stuffs like explaining parables, healing people etc. How come there is no deeper discourse between Jesus & his desciples recorded in your bible? I mean since the desciple knew that Jesus(yeshusa) came from God(heaven with angels etc) dont you think they would have loved to hear deeper stuffs like the origins of creation, the essence of life, what is in afterlife , who is God? What happens immediately after the mortal man dies? How come such deep conversations are not recorded in the bible?
N/B- you have the apocalypse of John(book of revelations) which talk about the future and what is to happen right? What about the Apocryohon?(the one that speaks of the origin and beginning). Remember to get to where you are going, you have to know where you are coming from.

43Ronin:
Honestly it's so vast but I will try to answer your questions as much as I can.
■ What do Priests do in the old testament? Offer animal or human sacrifices to jehova for sin or thanksgiving. You see the real god(who is not yhwh or Jehovah) does not need animal, human or blood sacrifices because he is perfect and not under any laws. He doesn't have a "chosen Israeli race" cos we are all God's children and cannot send Israeli people to go wipe out other tribes worshiping other God's because he created other gods and thus not in competition with them.
■: as for the experience what you have in the bible are fragments or titbit of Jesus true teachings.... for example the only conversation had in the bible with His desciples are about stuffs like explaining parables, healing people etc. How come there is no deeper discourse between Jesus & his desciples recorded in your bible?
▪︎ I mean since the desciple knew that Jesus(yeshusa) came from God(heaven with angels etc) dont you think they would have loved to hear deeper stuffs like the origins of creation, the essence of life, what is in afterlife , who is God?
▪︎ What happens immediately after the mortal man dies? How come such deep conversations are not recorded in the bible?
■ N/B- you have the apocalypse of John(book of revelations) which talk about the future and what is to happen right? What about the Apocryohon?(the one that speaks of the origin and beginning). Remember to get to where you are going, you have to know where you are coming from.

1. I take it what you are trying to say here is that YHWH has nothing to do with the Demiurge then, am I right?

2. Fragments? The reason why there are no records of these supposed deeper conversations has to do with the fact that the Gospels were meant as a record of the Law — God's New agreement and Covenant, the Constitution of God's special Kingdom of Priests (Exodus 19 vs 6) — and not as a record of personal conversations between Jesus Christ and His disciples. Just as the Books of Moses did not contain personal conversations Moses must have had with God, so also, the Gospels do not rightly record personal conversations as these things did not need recording as each man is able to go before God to obtain answers for the particular questions that plague his existence of his own.
▪︎ The answer to that question is already contained in Scripture. In addition, the Helper is there to answer any other questions you may have about that and more
▪︎ Again, the answer to that is also contained in Scripture. And you have the Helper to fill you in on more details.

3. I have read both actually, and given the language used in the 3 books supposedly written by the same John — the Gospel of John, the Epistle of John, and the Book of Revelation — I came away with the conclusion that the thoughts and ideas expressed in those works differ, in many ways, from those expressed in the Aprocryphon of John of the same Jesus Christ. Almost as if the records were tweaked or recompiled in order to insert ideas that are foreign into the whole. Reminds me a lot of the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Barnabas If you have time, we can create a thread to analyze the contents of the Apocryphon of John together.

---

Here's an example of what I mean. From the Apocryphon of John, we read the following:

[We would know nothing of the ineffable and nothing of the immeasurable without the help of the one who comes forth from the One who is the Father. He alone has informed us.] The Father is surrounded by light. He apprehends himself in that light [which is the pure spring of the water of life that sustains all realms]. He is conscious of his image everywhere around him, perceiving his image in this spring of Spirit pouring forth from himself. He is enamored of the image he sees in the light-water, the spring of pure light-water enveloping him. His self-aware thought (ennoia) came into being. Appearing to him in the effulgence of his light. She stood before him. This, then, is the first of the powers, prior to everything. Arising out of the mind of the Father, the Providence (pronoia) of everything. Her light reflects His light. She is from His image in His light Perfect in power. Image of the invisible perfect Virgin Spirit.

The one supposedly saying all of this to John is Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, yet here, He is said to have revealed that He is not in fact God's only begotten son but one of many others before Him. How come? Right there we see one of many contradictions that exist between that written by John in his other works and that contained in this work here.