As in the topic, he is the omnipotent and omniscience so he obviously can see the future. then why did he create Adam if Adam was just going to disobey his command?

Lucario007:

As in the topic, he is the omnipotent and omniscience so he obviously can see the future. then why did he create Adam if Adam was just going to disobey his command?

He needed people to worship him. Sort of like we have in North Korea.

I've thought about that o, no reasonable thing came to my head, also what if Adam had eaten from d tree of life, wat wud av happened?

@thehomer “But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”- Matt 12:36
“For by thy words thou shalt be justified,and  By thy words thoushalt be condemned.”- Matt 12:37

----,
"Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" - Romans 9:19-25

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:7-9

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" - Acts 17:24-27

"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him." -2 Samuel 22:31

"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." - Deuteronomy 32:4

this adam and eve is a load of nonsense. God doesnt need to resort to such cheap & baseless side-tricks to[i] need[/i] people to worship him. The eternal creator, if ever he desired so, could immediately program us to worship him.

and bowing down before and chanting gibberish in the presence of a man made carved doll , makes your religion more reasonable

this subject has being discussed already more than once.please review these thread and find your answers there:


https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-754035.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-753308.0.html

HISchild:

@thehomer “But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”- Matt 12:36
“For by thy words thou shalt be justified,and  By thy words thoushalt be condemned.”- Matt 12:37
----,

Hey there's still time so don't worry. I'll just have a death bed conversion to all the religions of the world past and present.

HISchild:

"Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" - Romans 9:19-25

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:7-9

In other words, your God may act in ways that are irrational? That's a neat escape trick.

HISchild:

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" - Acts 17:24-27

Are you saying God doesn't need worship? Okay he made everything including cancers and small pox.

HISchild:

"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him." -2 Samuel 22:31

Except those who die with their trust intact e.g in earthquakes and tornadoes.

HISchild:

"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." - Deuteronomy 32:4

Well humans are not perfect.

frosbel:

and bowing down before and chanting gibberish in the presence of a man made carved doll , makes your religion more reasonable

first on first, theres i difference between a doll and an idol. A doll is used for playing and usually made out of plastic and/or cloth. an idol is carved out of stone or wood (natural materials). I have already explained this before that we Pagans use the idol as a representative of God for a particular sphere of life, in order to concentrate our prayers on and to help us imagine God. As a result, we Pagans always experience true devotion to God unlike u monotheists who pray to thin air and pray just because u are forced to do so by ur bible. u do not and[b] cannot [/b] feel any devotion to God because you just pray to thin air. how can one have any kind of feelings towards nothing therefore your prayers reflect false devotion.

and look who is talking!!!!!!! you are the ones who worship false idols.:








and atleast our idols represent God whom we worship, but your idols represent[b] MEN[/b]. YOU WORSHIP MEN.

As in the topic, he is the omnipotent and omniscience so he obviously can see the future. then why did he create Adam if Adam was just going to disobey his command?

to set things right.

you should ask why did God place the tree of knowledge where it could be reached, or why was it in that particular garden.

^or whether those things actually exist?

^^for the sake of discussion, let's assume they did.

^much better now,

^^ok then.

hope the op is still around?

He created the heavens and the earth and saw that it was all good. He is omnipotent and omnipresent meaning he knows all that is to come and all that came. Then one of his perfect creations deceived another (also perfect) and they disobeyed god leading to the fall of humanity (and indeed the inferiority of women). He obviously saw this and allowed it to happen. You atheists are a funny lot. I'm sure most of you were christians at one point or the other. Dont you know what happens in heaven ? Choirs of angels singing only one song for eternity. Do you have any idea how boring that is ?

Would you like to live throughout eternity bored ? No you wont.

Look at the world today, very entertaining. He can sit up there causing tsunamis, earthquakes, famine, disease, wars etc all for his amusement. You think he couldnt have placed a flaming sword in the garden of Eden to discourage Adam ? Of course he could have. Remember, nothing is impossible for god. Why did he only do it afterward ?

Please disabuse your mind of any contrary notions because the other options (ie he is omni impotent and omni absent or at best a wicked god) are not worthy of consideration. I know this because its in the bible and must necessarily be so.
So the answer to the question the OP asked is boredom.

One question still bothers me though and I'm waiting for the holy spirit to reveal it to me. Why was there a tree of life in Eden. There was no need for it since we are meant to believe that god intended man to live forever (seems like a flaw in the divine plan, considering the number of men that have walked the earth - over population-) and that death only came to man because of Adams disobedience. Just thinking aloud sha.

@jayriginal, only GOD knows all things, HE is infinite in all, we humans, are flawed (since the fall of man through willing disobedience and the following curse), and we are very finite, may GOD bless you.

"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." - Psalm 147:5

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:7-9
====
"Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it." - Psalm 139:5-7

"Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child. Let Israel hope in the LORD from henceforth and for ever." - Psalm 131:1-3

Why was there a tree of life in Eden. There was no need for it since we are meant to believe that god intended man to live forever

And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;

17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+2&version=NIV

1. i'm not sure adam was actually created immortal.

2. he wasnt forbidden from eating of the tree of life.


still thinking about the rest.

tpia@:






1. i'm not sure adam was actually created immortal.

2. he wasnt forbidden from eating of the tree of life.


still thinking about the rest.

He may or may not have been created immortal. We aren't expressly told, but lets look at the implication. He was told that if he ate from the forbidden fruit he would surely die. We are told that through Adam, death came, and it came as a consequence of disobedience. In other words, no disobedience, no death. Correct me if I am wrong.

Just a thought here, if I was the serpent, I'd ask that the tree of life be eaten from first (assuming Adam wasn't already immortal) so that he need not fear the death that would result as a consequence of eating the forbidden fruit. That way, man gains eternal life (again, assuming he didn't already have it) and gains knowledge (the tree of good and evil). Doesn't it seem like man was immortal, hence there was no need to ask him not to eat from the tree (what good would that do) but god asked him to refrain from the tree containing the things he didn't already have (knowledge) ?

As Adam disobeyed, and death was pronounced on him, there was now a need to protect the tree of life (where there was previously no need).

Sorry for going off topic, just thinking aloud.

^^ if I start thinking about all those things, the "little" faith I have left wud disappear. It's better to live a righteous life, die n find out everything were just illusions than to live badly and find out there's hell.
Another question bro, how else do u think human beings, animals,plants, day and night, oceans, sun, moon etc came about, big bang?

Jamb question.

jayriginal:

He may or may not have been created immortal. We aren't expressly told, but lets look at the implication. He was told that if he ate from the forbidden fruit he would surely die. We are told that through Adam, death came, and it came as a consequence of disobedience. In other words, no disobedience, no death. Correct me if I am wrong.

Just a thought here, if I was the serpent, I'd ask that the tree of life be eaten from first (assuming Adam wasn't already immortal) so that he need not fear the death that would result as a consequence of eating the forbidden fruit. That way, man gains eternal life (again, assuming he didn't already have it) and gains knowledge (the tree of good and evil). Doesn't it seem like man was immortal, hence there was no need to ask him not to eat from the tree (what good would that do) but god asked him to refrain from the tree containing the things he didn't already have (knowledge) ?

As Adam disobeyed, and death was pronounced on him, there was now a need to protect the tree of life (where there was previously no need).

Sorry for going off topic, just thinking aloud.

i think a problem adam had here was the sequence of events.

he probably didnt eat from the tree of life [which wasnt forbidden], but instead went straight for the forbidden fruit.

showing the issue might have started even before the actual eating.

besides, he was tending the garden and probably there was no fruit on either tree initially until later, which was when the serpent decided to tempt them.

just theorizing here.

NnamdiN:

^^ if I start thinking about all those things, the "little" faith I have left wud disappear. It's better to live a righteous life, die n find out everything were just illusions than to live badly and find out there's hell.
Another question bro, how else do u think human beings, animals,plants, day and night, oceans, sun, moon etc came about, big slam?

Thats practically Paschal's wager rephrased. It has been refuted severally. It  makes sense only if you consider your religion to be the only one. The truth of the matter is that there are several other religions and each claims to be the right one. We know its highly implausible that they are all right and so the real question is how do you know (assuming there is one true religion out of many) that your own religion is the right one? If you look at it from the angle of probability, you realise that you are facing very long odds. The christian goes to the muslim hell and the muslim goes to the christian hell etc for other religions. Many religions dont allow you to combine other creeds to be on the safe side so at the end of the day, wheres the assurance ? There is none.

As for the question about how the world came into being, the truth is nobody knows for certain, but that is not necessarily important. The fact that you dont know something is no reason to say "God" or the devil did it. Your lack of knowledge about something has no correlation with the supernatural. There are plausible theories out there that are more believable than ancient myths handed down and reinforced by tradition. As to those theories, I personally find them interesting (and plausible as I mentioned earlier) but I wouldnt swear by them, neither do I think they are especially relevant. Their relevance lies to me, only in showing the absurdity of creationism.

tpia@:


i think a problem adam had here was the sequence of events.

he probably didnt eat from the tree of life [which wasnt forbidden], but instead went straight for the forbidden fruit.

showing the issue might have started even before the actual eating.

besides, he was tending the garden and probably there was no fruit on either tree initially until later, which was when the serpent decided to tempt them.

just theorizing here.

He definitely didnt eat from the tree of life, lets say according to your theory, there was no fruit on either tree. Your theory doesnt tell us if the fruits became available on both trees at the same time and if so, then my post above refers. It would have been more sensible to eat from the tree of life first as a way of indemnifying himself from the punishment of death.
In any case, your theory, brings us to a very important point about the bible. The point is that there are several gaps (being polite here) that humans have to explain away, using different theories, holy spirits and what not, to give a sensible explanation of the said gaps (hardly ever succeeding). These are the kind of errors that cannot be found in a book authored by a perfectionist. "God" shouldnt need his creation to explain his mistakes.

^Dont want to get into all that because i dont really do long theological arguments which are too vague and tend towards agnoticism or esoterism.

As per my previous post, a verse which comes to mind if the one that says when someone is tempted, he or she shouldnt say they're being tempted by God but rather should understand they're being enticed by their own lusts which lead them into sin.

I think that's applicable to this subject matter.

Wbb to discuss the tree of life post.

tpia@:

^Dont want to get into all that because i dont really do long theological arguments which are too vague and tend towards agnoticism or esoterism.

Fair enough.

tpia@:

As per my previous post, a verse which comes to mind if the one that says when someone is tempted, he or she shouldnt say they're being tempted by God but rather should understand they're being enticed by their own lusts which lead them into sin.

I think that's applicable to this subject matter.

I'd be glad to debate that but it might lead to the long theological argument which you don't want to go in to.

tpia@:

Wbb to discuss the tree of life post.

Till then.
In any case I'm glad we can conduct our discussion with civility. Your maturity is commendable.

Because god is stupid he didn't think before creating man. He f*cked up , why should he regret he created man? A real god can't or should/wouldn't regret. Obviously this nullifies is omni-references.

I'll repeat this from my previous post

"
But if God already knows the future, then humanity is destined to corroborate with his knowledge of the future and not have true free will to deviate from it. Therefore our ‘free will’ contradicts an omniscient god. As it means that I can do things to SURPRISE God. Lol And Gawd will open is mouth and say HA!!!! Na Wa oh! Even him will say “God dey sha” because something must have created God and there will be God of Gods xxxxx …. ad infinitum.

It is logically impossible to have omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, transcendence and omnibenevolence in one package. This is logically contradictory, incomprehensible, or absurd, and therefore the existence of such a god is a priori false. "

I ponder over something maybe someone can assist me:
You have a seven months old child, still crawling and innocent. He is free to crawl around your sitting room and you as a father deliberately put a live electric wire uncovered on the floor. I think as a responsible father, you need to remove the electric wire rather than warning your child to desist from such area.
I beg I no talk again make I no go hell fire
God forgive me

^^i think first you should ask what was the purpose of the tree of knowledge.

if nobody was allowed to eat it's fruit, then what exactly was it supposed to be used for.

i dont have the answer to this question, but just letting you know your analogy isnt quite correct.

tEsLim:

Because god is silly he didn't think before creating man. He f*cked up , why should he regret he created man? A real god can't or should/wouldn't regret. Obviously this nullifies is omni-references.

I'll repeat this from my previous post

"
But if God already knows the future, then humanity is destined to corroborate with his knowledge of the future and not have true free will to deviate from it. Therefore our ‘free will’ contradicts an omniscient god. As it means that I can do things to SURPRISE God. Lol And Gawd will open is mouth and say HA!!!! Na Wa oh! Even him will say “God dey sha” because something must have created God and there will be God of Gods xxxxx …. ad infinitum.

It is logically impossible to have omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, transcendence and omnibenevolence in one package. This is logically contradictory, incomprehensible, or absurd, and therefore the existence of such a god is a priori false. "

Hope you've passed your o'level english? Humans and God are not in the same class/realm. That a ten year old elephant cannot understand that 1+1=2 doesn't mean there's nothing like 1+1. It simply shows that YOU are not omniscient.

tEsLim:

Because god is silly he didn't think before creating man. He f*cked up , why should he regret he created man? A real god can't or should/wouldn't regret. Obviously this nullifies is omni-references.

I'll repeat this from my previous post

"
But if God already knows the future, then humanity is destined to corroborate with his knowledge of the future and not have true free will to deviate from it. Therefore our ‘free will’ contradicts an omniscient god. As it means that I can do things to SURPRISE God. Lol And Gawd will open is mouth and say HA!!!! Na Wa oh! Even him will say “God dey sha” because something must have created God and there will be God of Gods xxxxx …. ad infinitum.

It is logically impossible to have omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, transcendence and omnibenevolence in one package. This is logically contradictory, incomprehensible, or absurd, and therefore the existence of such a god is a priori false. "

Ask for forgivenes, ,funny dude.

^^^^ What forgiveness ? You should ask for understanding

What has English gotta do with this ? Go drown a trout if you have no reasonable contribution.