I bet what you are to answer is where exactly in the Qur'an the steps taken in salat are written. Where in the Qur'an are you told to stand up and then go on ruku' and then sujud . where do u find the supplications you recite during salat if not in the Ahadith.

The Qur'an tells us that the best examples are from the prophet. How do u c ds examples without ahadith. I pray Allah guides us all aright.

You know Uzizsky you finally "proved" beyond reasonable doubt why one should not be taken you seriously, first having failed in showing how to conduct salat from the Qur'an, you now deliberately use the thread to malign hadiths to make your case water tight. I am not going to dabble into the numerous salanders you ran into but I definately won't overlook the use of lies, you wrote

POINT 4: HADITH

"BUKHARY" (a hadith compiler) is the most praised compiler of the AHADITH. His work - "SAHI'H AL-BUKHARY" is the most honored book next to Quran(if not more than the Quran).
Bukhary is supposedly have been very meticulous in his work.

Lets use common sense now:

Of the 600,000 plus HADITH that Bukhary gathered himself, he only accepted 6000 or so as been SAHI'H(authentic).

Immagine! 99% of his work he threw away as been "weak hadiths" or "fabrication". He only accepted 1% .

The 1% (volumes upon volumes) of his work that he accepted, is full of contradiction, blasphemies against the prophet muahmmad and the patriachs of faith.


Now, how many of you are willing to rest your salvation upon the 1% of BUKHARI's work? while you have a single book(QURAN), free of contradictions, promising you salvation. if want to bet you faith on BUKHARY and the likes, then you are at the mercy of his work on the day that is certain.

i will not dwell much on this. I will GOD willing open another thread, proving from the QURAN as well as "HADITH" itself, that this are all fabracations aimed at defaming prophet muahmmad and has nothing to do with ISLAM.


Can you provide evidence how you came about the above? As it is known that amongst the 600, 000 hadiths that bukhari reviewed, there were numerous duplications, this you8r allegation is reminiscent of a fanatical christian attack on Islam, i reproduce the response given:

Smith says: "A further problem with these traditions is that of proliferation" and he also says, "Furthermore, the sheer number of Hadîths which suddenly appear created a good deal of suspicion. It has been claimed that by the ninth century there were over 600,000 Hadîth, or early stories about the Prophet." Smith is somehow under the delusion that 600,000 Hadîths means 600,000 separate bodies of text! He fails to remember that a Hadîth consists of both a text (matn) and a chain of transmission (isnâd), in the science of Hadîth the same text with ten chains of transmission is not one Hadîth but rather ten Hadîths (despite the fact that the text attached to each chain is the same in every case.)

This increase in the number of Hadîths included in the later collections is easily fathomed by anyone conversant with the history of the collection of Hadîth. With the expansion of the Islamic empire, the custodians of the Hadîth's travelled widely and settled throughout the new dominions, narrating those aHadîth known to them to create a provincial corpus. It was only after students of Hadîth had traveled through all these countries and collected together the traditions known to the specialists living there, and narrated them to their own students, that larger and more complete collections of Hadîth could be compiled.

Why the lies?

@Usisky: [Quote]Salaam to you brother, please do take your time and study the contents of the attached docs.[/Quote]There was no attached docs.

@Usisky; i got it.

i will go through it and respond to you.

May Allah guide us to follow Muhammad [as] and not somebody else.

Amin.

usisky:

In the twenty three(23) prophetic years of Muhammad, the Quran was gradually realeased to his memory.
During this same time frame he supposedly narrated tonnes of AHADITH.

Lets work the math:

600,000 AHADITH withing 23yrs. (that's the only ones we're even considering; there were many more).

A year = 12 months.

A month averages 30 days.


HADITH per day of the prophet(h):

h = 600,000/(23 x 12 x 30)
h = 72 (hadith/day) appr.


Immagine!!! 72 Hadith per day. the prophet must have been the most busiest person on earth.
he did not have any time for himself, except narrating hadiths.

Even if it were the 6000+ Bukhari compiled, it won't change a thing.

he Quran! that's exactly what i'm doing.

Pity, Your wanton display of ignorance should have atleast let you become more circumspect in understanding the 600, 000 hadiths, yet without apology for misleading people you came back and made more ignorant claims. I deliberately gave you titibits of info just to quantify the level of your ignorance in the matter being discussed again you showed that you do not value research but rather dogmatic following of opinions that seems to make your life easy. Now let me show some startling revelation you simply never would have known:

Nabia Abbott writes: " . . . the traditions of Muhammad as transmitted by his Companions and their Successors were, as a rule, scrupulously scrutinised at each step of the transmission, and that the so called phenomenal growth of Tradition in the second and third centuries of Islam was not primarily growth of content, so far as the Hadîth of Muhammad and the Hadîth of the Companions are concerned, but represents largely the progressive increase in parallel and multiple chains of transmission." [Nabia Abbott, Studies in Arabic Literary Papyri, Vol.II, p.2: Chicago: 1967]

She also finds that: ". . . using geometric progression, we find that one to two thousand Companions and senior Successors transmitting two to five traditions each would bring us well within the range of the total number of traditions credited to the exhaustive collections of the third century. Once it is realized that the isnâd did, indeed, initiate a chain reaction that resulted in an explosive increase in the number of traditions, the huge numbers that are credited to Ibn Hanbal, Muslim and Bukhârî seem not so fantastic after all." [Nabia Abbott, Studies in Arabic Literary Papyri, Vol.II, p.72: Chicago: 1967]


Bukhari was reported to have said: "I left out many more authentic traditions than this to avoid unnecessary length." [al-Khateeb in his Tarikh 2/8-9]. We find Muslim making a similar statement in his Sahîh where he says: "I have not included in this every Hadîth which I deem authentic." [Sahîh Muslim, English translation, Vol. 1, p.222, no.801., India:1987]. How many of the 592,603 were authentic with Bukhârî and Muslim but they chose not to include them?

The 600,000 narrations were not purely traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) but included the individual sayings of the Companions and their Successors, their legal decisions and commentaries; the word 'Hadîth' covers all of these subject matters in some scholars' terms. Therefore the countless number of non-Prophetic narrations have to be accounted for in the figure

You would agree you and your Qur'an only bosses have no ground to stand on?

[Quote]« #7 on: September 13, 2011, 09:43 AM »

Quote from: Sweetnecta on September 13, 2011, 02:58 AM
@Usisky; i got it.
May Allah guide us to follow Muhammad [as] and not somebody else.


Do not say such, instead agree with GOD;


[2:130] WHO WOULD FORSAKE the religion of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.

[3:67] Abraham was neither Jewish, nor Christian; he was a monotheist Muslim. He never was an idol worshiper.


Muhammad: A Follower of Abraham:

[16:123] Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.


I am a follower of Abraham through muhammad. I am a strict monotheist, and never an idol worshiper. Those who ascribe partnership with GOD without even perceiving it.

GOD guides those who earnestly and sincerely wish to be guided. It ain't by prayers.


PEACE!!![/Quote]Muhammad [as] is the imam of Ibrahim [as], his father, as he is the imam to all messengers and prophets [as] before him. In the event of Isra wa Miraj, Muhammad [as] led Ibrahim and all that gathered behind him, including Ibrahim, etc and Jibril [as to each of those who were there] in Salah in Masjid Aqsa. Allah says He completed Islam as a favor on believers on Muhammad [as]. The last Messenger [as] is the chairman of belief and Allah attached his name to His as in the Ayah; Muhammad Rasulullah.

Usisky again? Welcome back.

Although in hurry, I find it necessary to leave a passing comment here. Mr. Usisky, I can't locate any meaning in your lengthy posts. So wordy but so empty. I had expected to read about a good description of Salaat from the noble Qur'an, but I can't see that up to the above reply.

Let me rephrase our question: Describe to the readers how Salaat is performed and how you do yours from the noble Qur'an? Don't import anything from elsewhere. Qur'an only. Thanks

Muhsin he will never come up with any verse from the quran all he will tell you is a calculation was made using numbers in the Quran(using 19 code) to give you the units of the Contact prayer or He tells you it is the tradition of Abraham that was passed on from generation to generation.So how come the second pillar of Islam was not detailed in the Quran if we dont need any other source to tell us how to perform this units of sallah?.

Exactly, ymozay, I can see that. But let me remind him:

Usisky, five days have gone since my response above. We are patiently waiting for you. Thanks

@Usisky

Let me rephrase our question: Describe to the readers how Salaat is performed and how you do yours from the noble Qur'an? Don't import anything from elsewhere. Qur'an only. Thanks

I am interested too as I want to learn from you.

^^ And from what planet are you? You think you can just walk in here and not account for your whereabouts? LOL.

Quite an age Babs. Hope you're good.

@Zayhal

^^ And from what planet are you? You think you can just walk in here and not account for your whereabouts? LOL.

Quite an age Babs. Hope you're good.

Salam. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
I am in the same planet as you are . My sincere apology for not making my presence known before my input. Alhamdulillah,Allah has been wonderful to me and my family. I have been very busy but most times I stay offline reading posts. Hope your family are great?

babs787:

@Zayhal


Salam. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL.
I am in the same planet as you are . My sincere apology for not making my presence known before my input. Alhamdulillah,Allah has been wonderful to me and my family. I have been very busy but most times I stay offline reading posts. Hope your family are great?

That's good to hear. Better to be busy than to be idle. We're fine here, thanks.

Salam, Babs, let me join zayhal to welcome you back. It's gladdening seeing you old timers back.

He(Usisky) should also answer their(SUBMITTERS) claim that Man is only held accountable for his

action when he has attain the age of 40,any nobody that died before attaining 40yrs,goes to

Jannah.

@Muhsin

Salam, Babs, let me join zayhal to welcome you back. It's gladdening seeing you old timers back.

Jazakhallah for the wonderful work you have bee doing. May Allah (swt) make it an act of Ibadah for you and the entire Muslims.

babs787:

@Muhsin

Jazakhallah for the wonderful work you have bee doing. May Allah (swt) make it an act of Ibadah for you and the entire Muslims.

Amin thumma amin. Thanks

usisky:
Units of Contact Prayers
There is no dispute concerning the number of units (Rak'ahs) in all five daily prayers enjoined by God for Abraham and his followers. They are universally accepted to be 2, 4, 4, 3, and 4 units, respectively, for the above prayers listed.

By what means were these generally accepted number of units of "contact" prayer transmitted? And remember that since we are to rely on the Qur'an alone. So if it is not in the Qur'an, you too should not accept it since irrespective how large the population of muslims who were "brainwashed" into accepting it, if it is not in the Qur'an, it is out!

This is what you quoted. I expect you to follow it perfectly

usisky:
[Quran 6:114] Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

usisky:
God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Quran :
1. The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
2. The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18
3. The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
4. The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114
5. The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 24:58

Fajr and Maghrib
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.
11:114

What is the difference between end of the day and approach of the night?

Fajr and Isha
O you who have believed, let those whom your right hands possess and those who have not [yet] reached puberty among you ask permission of you [before entering] at three times: before the dawn prayer and when you put aside your clothing [for rest] at noon and after the night prayer. [These are] three times of privacy for you. There is no blame upon you nor upon them beyond these [periods], for they continually circulate among you - some of you, among others. Thus does Allah make clear to you the verses; and Allah is Knowing and Wise.
24:58
When does the night prayer start? When does it end?

Zuhr
Establish prayer at the decline of the sun [from its meridian] until the darkness of the night and [also] the Qur'an of dawn. Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed.
17:78

How does this tell me cross over point between Zuhr and Asr (the middle prayer)

Zuhr
And to Him is [due all] praise throughout the heavens and the earth. And [exalted is He] at night and when you are at noon.
30:18
This does not talk about salat ("contact prayer". If you interpret it as salat. Then it validates prayer in the night

Asr
Maintain with care the [obligatory] prayers and [in particular] the middle prayer and stand before Allah , devoutly obedient
2:238

This does not tell me the starting point of the middle prayer

BTW if you cannot convince me that end of the day is the same as approach of the night, the number of prayer become 3. Middle prayer (Zuhr which you interpret as Asr) then starts from the decline of the sun and ends at the end of the day.

usisky:
[Quran 13:40] Your ONLY mission (O Muhammad) is to deliver (Quran), while it is we who will call them to account.
[Quran 42:48] You (O Muhammad) have no duty EXCEPT delivering (Quran).
[Quran 5:99] The messenger has no function EXCEPT delivering (Quran).

Please always quote the Qur'an in full. If you are trying to convince anyone that they are making mistakes, your evidence must be free from any bias. The slightest hint of bias taints you and your intentions. Let us quote the Qur'an and see what we have

[Quran 13:40] And whether We show you part of what We promise them or take you in death, upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account.
[Quran 42:48] But if they turn away - then We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], over them as a guardian; upon you is only [the duty of] notification. And indeed, when We let man taste mercy from us, he rejoices in it; but if evil afflicts him for what his hands have put forth, then indeed, man is ungrateful.
[Quran 5:99] Not upon the Messenger is [responsibility] except [for] notification. And Allah knows whatever you reveal and whatever you conceal

Reading the verses in full we don't get the understanding you are trying to push ie that the Prophet (PBUH) has the duty of delivering the Qur'an but not to explain it. What comes across is that he should deliver the message, but he will not be held accountable if people did not submit or follow his teachings
Huge difference!

usisky:
NOT a single time, was the prophet Muhammad reported as telling the people; let me tell you how to perform your Salat prayers, or let me tell you the number of Rakaat in the prayers.
Had Muhammad willed or was of his duties to teach the community their prayer and the number of Rakaat, he would have done such that, and in the public arena for everyone to witness it. It never happened. Because the Prophet Muhammad and the people before him were given the ways to pray, handed down from Abraham through generations of believers who kept the prayers intact as God promised. God would not have told Muhammad to follow the religion of Abraham if no one knows or practices that religion.

That part in bold type is very very untrue
So the hadith where the Prophet told people to pray as they saw him prayed has been removed from the Ahadeeth books?
And there is a hadith of the man who prayed badly and whom the Prophet (PBUH) directed to repeat it until he admitted he could not pray better than he had upon which the Prophet (PBUH) taught him to pray. Is the hadith missing too?


BTW every prophet (AS) had his Sharia. That is why the offsprings of Adam lawfully married each other. But that is no longer so.
Finally, if we are to do things in accordance to Abraham's ways, how are we to know the details? By what means of transmission. You have drawn our attention to the application of certain verses in the Qur'an. How did you know this interpretation.
You quoted from a website. I don't think you should be doing that since the Qur'an is complete, clear and does not require ahadeeth to explain it.

Let me be clear

You applied Qur'an 87:1 to prostration and Qur'an 56:74 to bowing. Why? Why not the reverse?
You applied Qur'an 3:18 to tashahhud. What is the proof that that is what it applies to? Where is the proof that there is something called tashahhud? Or that we should sit down? Without textual evidence, we might as well be adopting pagan practices.
Same goes for your verse 17:111 as applying to takbeer. What is takbeer? Do we do takbeer by raising our hands, clenching our fists or by clapping? At what stage do we do takbeer?


Please respond with textual evidence from the Qur'an. "Traditional and generally accepted practices of Muslims" will not do here. I don't want to fall into the errors of Christians who adopted the doctrine of Trinity at the behest an atheist (Constantine) 300 hundred years after the death of Jesus (PBUH)who did not even preach it

Can you explain these contiguous verses
[Quran 17:78] Establish prayer at the decline of the sun [from its meridian] until the darkness of the night and [also] the Qur'an of dawn. Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed.
[Quran 17:79] And from [part of] the night, pray with it as additional [worship] for you; it is expected that your Lord will resurrect you to a praised station.

Is it not strange that you are pointing all these to us this while you want us to believe the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was not asked to do so and did not do so. So from where come your ideas?

LOL. I never saw so much googly-poop.