danilmo:


U sounded like an illiterate sha.

e dey pain u say its ur proffesion DAT is y u try hard to defend ur colleague.just last week I was at FMC Lokoja for a gastro intestine issue I swear d doctor DAT saw left me begin to wonder between Agbo Jedi n him wu better pass.very mannerless n proud upon DAT na goggle for fun e dey prescribe drugs

thesicilian:

You guys keep saying rubbish about Nigerian doctors yet pay millions to go see them home and abroad

That's the crazy thing. They heap abuses on us but run to emergencies when they are in trouble. Don't the feel stupid?

dohyn:
Glad to see the hospital has come out to say something.
I understand the man is angry and hurt,so I don't blame him for his write up.Also, this is Nigeria, the public tends to believe whoever puts the story out first, especially if they are the aggrieved party.
At least, we now know it was a consultant who carried out the operation, and not a "student doctor" as claimed in the initial story.
Makes one wonder what else might be been embellished in the initial story.
It is well

Listen. I used to say this until their lies affected me. These patients and their relatives are renowned liars. If you lose your wife, then mourn her. But don't drag another person's reputation into it. How can he say a student doctor(not even a HO or resident) operated on his wife? Anyone that believes that needs his brain examined. That person might as well believe a law student passed judgment in a Supreme Court. Because its the analogy of his lies in the legal world.
That story is a case of declined C section because no gynecologist would allow a woman labor more than 24 hours without offering a section, but knowing Nigerians, they decline it

linearity:


So how do you know, that the operation was carried out by a consultant?

Because the hospital said so? Also, during operation many doctors are involved including student doctors.

Plus, it is even damaging that it was a professional that carried out the operation because if I recall, the husband said, during child birth, the wife experienced a complication and they were advised that her womb have to be taken out and in the process of operating the womb, they tampered with her liver or kidney.

Also the hospital here stated they invited the husband to a multidisciplinary meeting, which means the hospital knew there was fault on their end to have setup a disciplinary team.

1. There is no how in hell a senior registrar(a senior post graduate doc) never mind a student doc(undergraduate) would touch a patient. To book a theater, you'll have to register a consultant's name.
Also no nurse would be in that theater.
2 There is no way in hell too the student doc would perform a delivery, perform hysterectomy(womb removal), dialyse a patient, order blood tranafusions etc.
3. And the most important question is… can one do an operation alone? 🤣🤣🤣
Impossible! No doctor would assist a student doc in the theater. So how did an undergraduate doc do all those over days, not hours and nobody in that hospital would notice?
In fact that hospital doesn't do housemanship which is where docs do trainings for fresh docs, so where did that 'student doc' spring out from?
My only thought is the guy is a big fat liar 🤣🤣🤣
Now what I feel happened was the man declined a C section for his wife. No gyne would allow a woman labor for 24 hours without offering C section. Its a routine protocol. So the woman bled, had acute kidney injury which resulted to renal failure, and had to be transfused and had dialysis.
The hospital cannot say the full details because of medicolegal reasons(patient doctor confidentiality) . The only time they can explain fully what happened is in a court.
This is the reasons hospitals or doctors don't come out to debunk these chronic lies you people wash us with everyday. Our hands are tied by the law so we can't debunk those lies all the time

linearity:


I took time to locate and read your previous comments on this subject, the truth is I am not persuaded.

Yes, there are complications every surgery hence one is asked to sign below the dotted lines before anything can be done.

But the multiple cascading failure here leaves one with nothing but to question the know-how and professionalism of the doctors involved here.

It was a child birth that resulted in excessive bleeding. This is totally under the control of the Doctor in charge, if the right tests medical screening are carried out, excessive bleeding can be anticipated with proper remedy in place. It is most likely the knife cut some place it should not have touched leading to the bleeding.

Secondly, when the bleeding occurred, it is totally under the control of the Doctors to monitor and protect her other organs, they cannot just say excessive bleed lead to organ shutdown’….she was right there under your watch.

Thirdly, she was put on dialysis due to kidney shutdown and died within few days from what again?

The Hospital are I order for setting up the MDT because too many things went wrong and someone should be held responsible.

This is not good for the Hospital and their rebutter does not erase the negative light this event has cast on them.

1. The management of a labor starts from the antenatal period. It is from that and her previous labor histories the doctor can deduce if the labor can be catastrophic. Even at that, some unexpected bleeding happens even with the most careful preparations . That is why women are told to keep blood during labor. Clotting factors etc are not routine antenatal tests. The commonest cause of bleeding in labor is uterine atony, where the womb is slack. Now this is common in women with many babies, or multiple pregnancies. And this bleeding can be massive.
I don't know whether you're trying to be mischevious or not, but the man stated the bleeding started during labor, before any knife touched her. So what you insinuated is a lie.
There is no 'test' that shows if a woman would bleed in labor. As a physician, you have to be prepared for anything in labor.
How can you say 'the bleeding is totally under the control of the Doctors to monitor and protect her other organs' ? Have you witnessed torrential bleeding before? Lol
With that comment I knew you aren't a health worker. If you have witnessed torrential bleeding where blood pours out like an exploding tap, you'll shut up. Some bleeding are so bad that, you'll be seeing the color of the transfused blood coming out from the vagina immediately. So bro, if you don't know anything, kindly keep quiet. Like you said, the only thing we can do to protect her organs is give blood and colloids, and stop the bleeding with anything we have.
Yes, you can die during dialysis. Many complications from poorly perfused kidneys, heart complications etc.
Like I said, if you don't know, simply ask.
So you assume the MDT was because 'so many things were wrong'. Lol. Doctors routinely organize mortality reviews(a kind of meeting for every death) , even if the patient death is inevitable. Its done to see if we could have (somehow) anticipated and prevented the death. It doesn't happen only if a death was a mistake

dohyn:
I'm not aware that we routinely screen patients for bleeding disorders when they register for antenatal care. So, how would the excessive bleeding have been pre-empted?
She delivered a baby boy vaginally. Afterwards, she started to bleed. Post parturition haemorrhage is a known complication of delivery and she had hysterectomy to correct/stem the bleeding.
When one looses a lot of blood, the brain shuts down "non essential" organs to ensure blood supply to essential organs. That caused the kidney failure. You can Google causes of acute kidney injury for more information.
The doctors tried to prevent organ shut down and that's why he was asked to buy 22 pints of blood. Unfortunately, there's something called DIC (google), which must likely happened Afterwards and probably began a cascade that led to her sad demise.

Lastly, since you are not persuaded, I don't think any further explanation will change your mind, so I won't be taking this any further. I have always maintained that the Nigerian public's default position is to hate doctors, so there's no need to try and engage them. This one that I've done sef na overs*bi. Take care

Update: I can see some people on this page are still not satisfied with the explanations my colleagues and I have put here. Honestly,na just to dey browse nairabet and goal.com some of una dey use your smartphones to do. Please use your phones to gain knowledge abeg, it's freely available online.

Commonest cause of PPH is uterine atony and not even clotting issues. So a clotting profile or PT INR may not even show anything. Most causes are pinpointed during antenatals.
About the common Nigerian hate towards doctors, I dont even bother myself. Its heart breaking donating blood and paying for patients procedure only for one to come online and read all these rubbish. I ve stopped doing all those. Instead save the money for my kids

we don't know who's lying or telling the truth again, as per say our journalists are very useless and lazy to do investigations and give the public feedback they can always rely on hearsay.

Assuming is anything concerning Tinubu's certificate or drug cases they always turn themselves to Sherlock Holmes still yet their reports are always based on "according to" "we believe" "based on"

An independent body should investigate this story.In nigeria people get away with too many things

torqque7:


Going by your responses you are saying if one isn’t rich then they shouldn’t expect the doctors who by the way are morally obligated to do all in their power to save lives,one shouldn’t expect them to do and put in their best but to expect a botched job? You are not even fit to work as a tailor with that mindset, I pity anyone who engages your services whatever it is you do. Go and tell that crap to people in America and Europe na.

People did a shitty Job and you are bringing sentiments into it, don’t worry it will happen to you too and when it happens to you or your relative then you will be taken seriously when you come and make dump submissions like you doing.

I don't even think you have the power to reason properly, never mind logically.
Your friend Linearity says every procedure etc must be 100% screened and made sure to be completely risk free before embarking on it, like a delivery. The dude replied that 100% risk free procedures aren't guaranteed. And in fact, doing all the tests before a procedure like delivery is not possible. Investigations like liver, thyroid and kidney function tests, spotting profiles, renal scintigraphy etc are good but not always necessary before labor/deliveries. But if u can do them, fine and good. But the problem is they cost a lot, thus investigations are cut down to viral markers, PCV, urinalysis, VDRL.
If you are very rich, by all means do all. But when 95% of Nigerians can't afford them, it doesn't mean you can't attend to such procedures, but do the barebones investigations, and hope nothing happens. Or do you expect the doc to pay for those investigations? When you say we are morally obligated to save lives, do you expect us to do it blind(blind means without those costly investigations). Even when you put in your best as a doc, you still need the patient to do his or her own part, that is do all the investigations.
People in Europe and US youre pointing to are suffering. Ask them how much healthcare is over there? Its very costly because docs over there have learnt to cover themselves by requesting for in depth and extensive investigations before any procedures to prevent any issues(which would lead to litigations). We don't ask for such here but gradually due to the increasing litigations, we are doing that

Steve0979:
e dey pain u say its ur proffesion DAT is y u try hard to defend ur colleague.just last week I was at FMC Lokoja for a gastro intestine issue I swear d doctor DAT saw left me begin to wonder between Agbo Jedi n him wu better pass.very mannerless n proud upon DAT na goggle for fun e dey prescribe drugs

So since you know its Google, hope you'll be treating yourself henceforth with Google hits

Quarks everywhere!

A consequence of exam malpractice.

MyICThub:
There was a report making rounds on the internet of a student doctor performing surgery at a hospital that lead to the death of a woman >> https://www.nairaland.com/7677674/how-student-doctor-caused-womans

After reading the full story I knew something was amiss, the said hospital has come forward to refute the claims- Says No student doctor ‘butchered’ any patient in Edo Specialist Hospital

The Management of Edo State Specialist Hospital, Benin City, has dismissed a claim by one Mr. Sunday Oghogho, that a student doctor ‘butchered’ his late wife at the facility, saying all surgeries in the hospital are conducted by competent specialist doctors.

It said the rebuttal became necessary following an allegation by Oghogho that the hospital was liable for the death of the deceased.

This was stated in a statement by the management, which was made available to newsmen.

Oghogho had claimed, among others, that he received a phone call from the Chief Medical Director of the hospital, on April 18 that his attention was needed at the hospital in respect of his wife’s death.

He alleged in a Facebook post that when he got to the hospital with some of his family members, they met the CMD and eight other doctors of the hospital who apologised to him and his family and admitted that they had discovered that it was a student doctor who operated on his wife.

But denying this claim, the hospital’s statement reads:



Sources:
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2023/05/no-student-doctor-butchered-any-patient-edo-specialist-hospital/

https://thenationonlineng.net/hospital-refutes-claim-student-doctor-butchered-patient/

There is nothing like student Doctor. A doctor is a doctor, a student is a student

jaephoenix:

I don't even think you have the power to reason properly, never mind logically.
Your friend Linearity says every procedure etc must be 100% screened and made sure to be completely risk free before embarking on it, like a delivery. The dude replied that 100% risk free procedures aren't guaranteed. And in fact, doing all the tests before a procedure like delivery is not possible. Investigations like liver, thyroid and kidney function tests, spotting profiles, renal scintigraphy etc are good but not always necessary before labor/deliveries. But if u can do them, fine and good. But the problem is they cost a lot, thus investigations are cut down to viral markers, PCV, urinalysis, VDRL.
If you are very rich, by all means do all. But when 95% of Nigerians can't afford them, it doesn't mean you can't attend to such procedures, but do the barebones investigations, and hope nothing happens. Or do you expect the doc to pay for those investigations? When you say we are morally obligated to save lives, do you expect us to do it blind(blind means without those costly investigations). Even when you put in your best as a doc, you still need the patient to do his or her own part, that is do all the investigations.
People in Europe and US youre pointing to are suffering. Ask them how much healthcare is over there? Its very costly because docs over there have learnt to cover themselves by requesting for in depth and extensive investigations before any procedures to prevent any issues(which would lead to litigations). We don't ask for such here but gradually due to the increasing litigations, we are doing that

I am not saying that shit don't happen or things must be 100%, there are no utopia world or scenarios out there.

All I am saying is that, given the multiple cascading events that took place in this case and the fact that it happened in Nigeria, where maternal mortality rate is among the top 10 in the world, more often than none, there is culpability with the professionals who had a duty to care.

In a situation where 1 in every 22 women would die during pregnancy in Nigeria says a lot about our healthcare system. Agreed the majority of these deaths are due to lack of care or access to care centers, but a good portion of them like the case in point happened in care centers in Nigeria.

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worst-countries-to-be-a-mother/

So in situations like these, my default position is to blame the care center until proven otherwise. I agree that I am biased (so factor this bias in understanding my position).

However, if you look at the bright side, it shows that I have a lot of faith in the Nigeria care centers that, they can really do more and in most cases, it is not really the money that makes the difference, but the value attached to human life by the care center personnel.

Don't take my word for it, visit a few care centers in Nigeria and see how humans have been reduced to commodities, everything that goes on is transactional despite budgets covering these items. The state House clinic in Abuja had a budget of about N20 billion but bu the President's wife told us, you can't even get Paracetamol there and the President travels abroad to treat his ear infection.

Majority of these student doctor's don't know anything, the last time I was at UPTH, a female student doctor was asked to take care of a patient untill she recovers, I dunno what she gave the man exactly, but the next thing we saw was the patient's dead body.

nicho450:
That is how they will keep on dishing fake news up and down.

How can a sane person sit down and come up with nonsense? To whose benefit?

You are not telling yourself the truth if you can’t read between the lines to understand this is a cover up news

I grow up in Benin I have plenty encounters of how these things happen, my in law died in UBTH they were treating him with someone else’s case file giving him wrong medication that’s how he died only for us to find out, Doctors will be coming to see patients in the hospital ward they will come with at least 5 to 6 medical students and be using a patient to teach them such things needs to be stopped, when issues like this comes up don’t think the person just lied, I saw the post on Twitter then I remember what happened to my in law

thesicilian:

You guys keep saying rubbish about Nigerian doctors yet pay millions to go see them home and abroad

Doctors- the only profession Nigerians hate to love...

linearity:


I took time to locate and read your previous comments on this subject, the truth is I am not persuaded.

Yes, there are complications every surgery hence one is asked to sign below the dotted lines before anything can be done.

But the multiple cascading failure here leaves one with nothing but to question the know-how and professionalism of the doctors involved here.

It was a child birth that resulted in excessive bleeding. This is totally under the control of the Doctor in charge, if the right tests medical screening are carried out, excessive bleeding can be anticipated with proper remedy in place. It is most likely the knife cut some place it should not have touched leading to the bleeding.

Secondly, when the bleeding occurred, it is totally under the control of the Doctors to monitor and protect her other organs, they cannot just say excessive bleed lead to organ shutdown’….she was right there under your watch.

Thirdly, she was put on dialysis due to kidney shutdown and died within few days from what again?

The Hospital are I order for setting up the MDT because too many things went wrong and someone should be held responsible.

This is not good for the Hospital and their rebutter does not erase the negative light this event has cast on them.

What tests help you anticipate excessive bleeding please ? Many of you be acting like you know something about what you know absolutely nothing about. Sad part is you spew the nonsense so confidently. I have been a doctor for 10 years now and now a senior doctor, a Director and I will appreciate your shedding more light on this.

The whole news is sad and unfortunate but these things happen even in the best of places. I have had the opportunity to practice in the best centres in the world and I can confirm that to you. So complex is the human body that you can not always predict what will happen. Seemingly simple procedures can turn complex on getting in. Anyone with actual clinical experience and not just Nairaland pseudo expert can attest to this simple fact. These encounters happen daily especially for those in the surgical specialties.

On student doctors operating, where is that done? That your likes actually believe that tells all that needs to be known. I trained in Nigeria by self and I know this isn’t possible.

Suggesting that MDT was convened because the hospital knew they were wrong is just nonsensical and silly. I am sure it came from a place of ignorance. MDT(which I have been part of several occasions and I have chaired a few times) are constituted on every complex cases to help the team identify lessons the managing team can learn from each case. Each hospital has its way of doing it but it typically involves what is called a significant event analysis. It is standard practice all over the world. That the relative was called to meet the MDT team is due to him wanting clarifications which he is entirely entitled to.

caesymore:
So many irregularities in the story though, Surprised how an MD of a Nigerian Hospital will call you and own up to their mistakes... that one is imposible in Nigeria.

immediately I saw that part that day, I knew the stories were made up.
May God Almighty comfort the family and the love ones.

Maybaby4eva:
They should add a CCTV footage to this refutation showing those specialists entering and performing the surgeries.

just reacting without any emotion towards the man’s plight is unacceptable.

CCTV on who performed surgery?
If the case note and documentations are not enough for you,go to court..

Na wah o

Bigchristo:
You are not telling yourself the truth if you can’t read between the lines to understand this is a cover up news

I grow up in Benin I have plenty encounters of how these things happen, my in law died in UBTH they were treating him with someone else’s case file giving him wrong medication that’s how he died only for us to find out, Doctors will be coming to see patients in the hospital ward they will come with at least 5 to 6 medical students and be using a patient to teach them such things needs to be stopped, when issues like this comes up don’t think the person just lied, I saw the post on Twitter then I remember what happened to my in law

UBTH is a Teaching Hospital..
They teach first and treat secondly..
If you don't want your relatives to be used to teach,then don't go there..
If those students don't learn enough,you would be the first to come to Nairaland,to rant about how your relative was killed by a Quack Doctor..

Guess Mr Sunday should have recorded the conversation during the meeting. As of right now he has no proof that the hospital acted erroneously. I believe him though. Hospitals will never admit any wrong-doing publicly unless you got proof

Cc efficiencie


I told you ...

inoki247:
We no even know wetin dey real again....


Prank and fake News no allow us know wetin we go dey believe again sef...

Ask lie Mohammed for the real news always....

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torqque7:
God will Punish you people..what rubbish did you people post?how did a woman giving birth now have complications that you want to take out her womb and as if that’s not enough you went to her kidney?how womb take affect kidney bayi?you didn’t even tell us anything reasonable here just saying it wasn’t a student that did the surgery..omoh the guy should Sue that Hospital..Anyone in their correct senses now know better than to go there for solution to their health issues.

It would be reasonable to you if you have basic knowledge of how the human body works. Simply put blood is life, she had a lot of bleeding after birth, the brain, kidney, heart would stop working when there is so much bleeding. They had to remove her womb to reduce the blood loss.
There are things you dont wish for even your enemy an example is what they call DIC especially from child birth, it would be a miracle to survive, especially when up to 20 pints of blood are transfused, 22 pints sounds exagerated though.

torqque7:


Going by your responses you are saying if one isn’t rich then they shouldn’t expect the doctors who by the way are morally obligated to do all in their power to save lives,one shouldn’t expect them to do and put in their best but to expect a botched job? You are not even fit to work as a tailor with that mindset, I pity anyone who engages your services whatever it is you do. Go and tell that crap to people in America and Europe na.

People did a shitty Job and you are bringing sentiments into it, don’t worry it will happen to you too and when it happens to you or your relative then you will be taken seriously when you come and make dump submissions like you doing.

I don't think u read and understand my submission. In Nigeria we enter theater not knowing the blood clothing profile of the patient, we only order for it wen we are clinically suspecting a possiblity of uncontrollable heamorrhage. Same way so many other things to check on. But the fact is this is Nigeria, because of finance we still manouver to "riskly" help out. Trust me if we are to do the 100% risk free which is not even obtainable in Europe, u will b paying Millions. Ure cursing after u read where I said something that should be charged for 1Milla all things equal, we charge 350,400k and take risk because of finance, trusting our skill to manouver for the good of patient incase of complications, u're here cursing,lol. Go and ask how much patient pay for health in that europe and compare it, u think health delivery is cheap? It's costly but we still survive here base on we we. See I've helped patient financially, donated blood before surgery as patient couldn't afford the needed, and she needed surgery done to save her life, u're here cursing, lol. Guy calm down o. We just know it's Doctors against the society. Whatever suits u, talk.

linearity:


I am not saying that shit don't happen or things must be 100%, there are no utopia world or scenarios out there.

All I am saying is that, given the multiple cascading events that took place in this case and the fact that it happened in Nigeria, where maternal mortality rate is among the top 10 in the world, more often than none, there is culpability with the professionals who had a duty to care.

In a situation where 1 in every 22 women would die during pregnancy in Nigeria says a lot about our healthcare system. Agreed the majority of these deaths are due to lack of care or access to care centers, but a good portion of them like the case in point happened in care centers in Nigeria.

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worst-countries-to-be-a-mother/

So in situations like these, my default position is to blame the care center until proven otherwise. I agree that I am biased (so factor this bias in understanding my position).

However, if you look at the bright side, it shows that I have a lot of faith in the Nigeria care centers that, they can really do more and in most cases, it is not really the money that makes the difference, but the value attached to human life by the care center personnel.

Don't take my word for it, visit a few care centers in Nigeria and see how humans have been reduced to commodities, everything that goes on is transactional despite budgets covering these items. The state House clinic in Abuja had a budget of about N20 billion but bu the President's wife told us, you can't even get Paracetamol there and the President travels abroad to treat his ear infection.

Do you know why maternal deaths are high here? Religion and culture.
Let me use this index case as an example. This man's wife labored for days. Now, no gynecologist would allow a woman labor for more than 24 hours. They give an option for a C section immediately. But guess what? 90% of Nigerians decline it. Some say their pastor says they must deliver like Hebrew women, some say it makes them fell less of a woman, some think its not necessary, some think its too costly etc. When my wife had pre ecclampsia, she was offered C section but her own mom says 'C/S no dey dia family' that she had 7 kids and none was through a C/S. I had to weigh in and make her do it but by then the baby has lost 1kg and died after birth, and my wife nearly lost her life from that ecclampsia. She was in Umuahia and I was in Port Harcourt. I had to rush down to Umuahia to force her. I would have lost her alongside the baby. All these calamities would have been averted if she had agreed 3 days earlier for the C/S. I was telling the docs over the phone to section her but they can't do anything cos there’s no written consent. Anytime I narrate this story, I get pissed but it happens everyday all over the country.
So bro, in as much as we have our problems here, don't blame us for the high maternal health. In fact some patients avoid some hospitals because they say they like money too much. Of course CS costs money but you're guaranteed of going home with your baby and your life. Why put yourself through stress of labor?

Cassandraloius:
Majority of these student doctor's don't know anything, the last time I was at UPTH, a female student doctor was asked to take care of a patient untill she recovers, I dunno what she gave the man exactly, but the next thing we saw was the patient's dead body.

Lol. You guys are comedians. Student docs 'don't take care of a patient til they recover'. Even house officers don't do that. Make una suffry for dis una lie

Bigchristo:
You are not telling yourself the truth if you can’t read between the lines to understand this is a cover up news

I grow up in Benin I have plenty encounters of how these things happen, my in law died in UBTH they were treating him with someone else’s case file giving him wrong medication that’s how he died only for us to find out, Doctors will be coming to see patients in the hospital ward they will come with at least 5 to 6 medical students and be using a patient to teach them such things needs to be stopped, when issues like this comes up don’t think the person just lied, I saw the post on Twitter then I remember what happened to my in law

All these stories una dey cook up. How can they use another person's folder for another? Many teaching hospital have the patients' name tagged to the bed, along with the drug and treatment charts. Even if there was a mistake the first time(in giving a patient another patient's drug), it not possible repeating itself regularly. The drugs undergo crosschecks from doc, nurse and pharmacist.
Bro, its not called a teaching hospital for nothing. It's where docs are taught and UBTH is a big teaching hospital so would attract many student doc and house officers. Teaching Hospitals are in every state. Some have 2 depending on healthcare size. And that is where you have the best brains. And of course treatment there is cheaper than private hospitals. If you don't like the teaching hospital, you can always opt for private

I would have shocked like President Buhari if they have accepted the unfortunate incident

AsaBlackheart:
Guess Mr Sunday should have recorded the conversation during the meeting. As of right now he has no proof that the hospital acted erroneously. I believe him though. Hospitals will never admit any wrong-doing publicly unless you got proof

The fact you believe a whole Chief Medical Director would tell a patient that a procedure was done by a student , speaks volumes about you.
Ok lets assume somehow a miracle happened and student doc actually operated on his wife. Do you think the CMD would tell him? Lol. Bro think am nah. A CMD of all people that knows the medicolegical implications of lotsa shit?
The man is an obvious liar