Maynman:

You think it was them that built the Kaaba? 😂😂

The link was on the origin of Kaaba.

AntiChristian:
Which of these was Abraham and Ishmael involved in building?

No be etymology i won chop! Proof!

Hubal, Uzza, Manat and others were destroyed!

AntiChristian:


I believe my Books than your source!

Maynman:

enjoy etymology. Etymology is basically the account of the birth and development of a word. I like to say, "All words have a story to tell."


Hubal, Uzza and Manat were worshipped inside where?
When you pray you turn to where?

AntiChristian:


Where they worshipped when Abraham built the place?

They came to be worshiped in between and they were later destroyed!

Maynman:

I don’t want you to “Believe” me.

AntiChristian:


The texts of Islam:

1 – Muslim (969) narrated that Abu’l-Hayaaj al-Asadi said: ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib said to me: “Shall I not send you with the same instructions as the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sent me? ‘Do not leave any image without defacing it or any built-up grave without leveling it.’”

2 – Muslim (832) narrated from ‘Urwah ibn ‘Abasah that he said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “With what were you sent?” He said, “I was sent to uphold the ties of kinship, to break the idols, and so that Allaah would be worshipped alone with no partner or associate.”

Maynman:

Abraham didn’t build anything.
And Hubal was worshipped in the qurasyh kaaba, he was the chief god there.
There were other kaabas.

Hubal had his stone in the kaaba which is been kissed till now.

Look up “pre islamic”.

Maynman:

Mohammed was shifting to Monotheism.
The Black Stone represents Hubal.

AntiChristian:


So he broke Hubal and kept worshiping it?

AntiChristian:


You are telling me to believe Wikipedia and your online sources as against my book that came before internet!


Hubal Stone is being kissed! Chai!
it is proven that the ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) said, when he kissed the Black Stone : I know that you are a stone and have no power to harm or benefit; were it not that I saw the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) kissing you, I would not have kissed you. And this is our position!

With regard to what some ignorant people think, that the purpose behind that is to seek blessing (barakah) from it, there is no basis for that, so it is invalid.

Sorry! I'll pass!

Maynman:

He was moving to monotheism.
He destroyed the idols but left the black stone.
https://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/kaaba/BlackStone.html

Maynman:

Lol, i wondered why the prophet was kissing it, for fun I guess

I know it’s hard to leave.

AntiChristian:


Our belief about the Black stone is sure different!

1. The Black Stone was sent down by Allah to this earth from Paradise.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi).

2. The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaa said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462).

(a) Al-Mubaarakfoori said in al-Marqaah: This means, the sins of the sons of Adam who touched the stone, caused it to turn black. The hadeeth should be taken at face value, because there is no reason not to, either narrated in a report or by virtue of common sense.

(Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi, 3/525)

(b) Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said: Some heretics tried to criticize this hadeeth by saying: How come the sins of the mushrikeen turned it black and the worship of the people of Tawheed did not make it white?

I answer by quoting what Ibn Qutaybah said: If Allah had willed, that would have happened. But Allah has caused it to be the case that black usually changes other colours and its not itself changed, which is the opposite to what happens with white.

(c) Al-Muhibb al-Tabari said: The fact that it is black is a lesson for those who have insight. If sins can have this effect on an inanimate rock, then the effect they have on the heart is greater.

See Fath al-Baari, 3/463

3. The Black Stone will come forth on the Day of Resurrection and will testify in favour of those who touched it in truth.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said concerning the Stone: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944

This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi, and as qawiy by al-Haafiz ibn Hajar in Fath al-Baari, 3/462

(4) Touching, kissing or pointing to the Black Stone – this is the first thing to be done when starting Tawaaf, whether it is for Hajj or ‘Umrah, or voluntary Tawaaf.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allah (may Allah be pleased with him) that when the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to Makkaah, he came to the Black Stone and touched it, then he walked to the right of it and ran three times and walked four times [around the Ka’bah].

(narrated by Muslim, 1218).

(5) The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) kissed the Black Stone, and his ummah followed his lead in doing so.

It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: “I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1520; Muslim, 1720)

(6) If a person is unable to kiss the Stone, he should touch it with his hand or something else, then he can kiss the thing with which he touched it.

(a) It was narrated that Naafi’ said: I saw Ibn ‘Umar touch the Stone with his hand then he kissed his hand. I said, I have never ceased to do this since I saw the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) do it.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1268)

(b) It was narrated that Abu Tufayl (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I saw the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1275).

(7) If a person is unable to do the above, then he can point to it with his hand and say “Allahu akbar”.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performed Tawaaf on his camel, and every time he came to the corner [where the Stone is] he would point to it and say “Allahu akbar.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4987).

( Touching the Stone is one of the things by means of which Allah expiates for sins

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 959. This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi and as saheeh by al-Haakim (1/664). Al-Dhahabi agreed with him).

It is not permissible for a Muslim to annoy other Muslims at the Stone by hitting or fighting. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) told us that the Stone will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity, which is not the case when a person touches it by disturbing the slaves of Allah.

And Allah knows best.

AntiChristian:


This has just been answered!

AntiChristian:


Bring your attachment!

AntiChristian:
The concept of God/god (Elohim) in the Bible is deceptive and can easily be translated as one wishes.

Son of God
In the Bible we see that Moses was God for Pharaoh, Satan is the God of the world, Sons of God came to sleep with humans, God fought Jacob and lost, Jesus is the son of God, Even you are Gods. Most of these Gods are from "Elohim" in Hebrew. Elohim which can be translated as "gods" can be used in the singular sense for God, for god, Angels, Superhuman, and for people of authority such as a Judge or ruler.

Elohim as God aka Yahweh
Take note that in Gen 1:1 In the Beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and earth.

Used as gods
Now I know that the LORD (Yahweh) is greater than all other gods (Elohim), for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly.” Exo 18:11

“Whoever sacrifices to any god (Elohim) other than the LORD (Yahweh) must be destroyed. Exo 22:20

As an Angel (Cos i don't think Jacob can fight God.)
“Your name will no longer be Jacob,” the man told him. “From now on you will be called Israel, because you have fought with God and with men and have won.” Gen 32:28

Humans are God (Elohim)
Then the LORD (Yahweh) said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. Exo 7:1

“I said, ‘You are “gods"(Elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.’ Psalm 82:6

Rightchannel
TenQ
Mightysparrow
Ovacoma
Fzmasterz
Gaskiyamagana
43Ronin
SIRTee15

RightChannel:



You attached Elohim just to console yourself

AntiChristian:
The concept of God/god (Elohim) in the Bible is deceptive and can easily be translated as one wishes.

Son of God
In the Bible we see that Moses was God for Pharaoh, Satan is the God of the world, Sons of God came to sleep with humans, God fought Jacob and lost, Jesus is the son of God, Even you are Gods. Most of these Gods are from "Elohim" in Hebrew. Elohim which can be translated as "gods" can be used in the singular sense for God, for god, Angels, Superhuman, and for people of authority such as a Judge or ruler.

Elohim as God aka Yahweh
Take note that in Gen 1:1 In the Beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and earth.

Used as gods
Now I know that the LORD (Yahweh) is greater than all other gods (Elohim), for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly.” Exo 18:11

“Whoever sacrifices to any god (Elohim) other than the LORD (Yahweh) must be destroyed. Exo 22:20

As an Angel (Cos i don't think Jacob can fight God.)
“Your name will no longer be Jacob,” the man told him. “From now on you will be called Israel, because you have fought with God and with men and have won.” Gen 32:28

Humans are God (Elohim)
Then the LORD (Yahweh) said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. Exo 7:1

“I said, ‘You are “gods"(Elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.’ Psalm 82:6

Rightchannel
TenQ
Mightysparrow
Ovacoma
Fzmasterz
Gaskiyamagana
43Ronin
SIRTee15

A001:

Otem's book of history is your best source for the answer. They're a group of gods or godhead headed by god El and worked in league with Allah/Yahweh in the Old World to enslave humans via religion.

Whenever you read your Bible or Qur'an (especially those parts in the latter where Allah says 'We'), just have it at the back of your mind, these are the group (Elohim in league with Allah/Jehovah) being referred to. Those are the entities you, Muslims and Christians, worship.

All of them are past humans.

They're all trivial and tiny in the current scheme of things.

TenQ:

When ignorance is at its peak and it has stupidity on top of it.

Main Ignorance of AntiChristian :
Elohim is aka Yahweh

On this ignorance, all his confusion are based.


1. The word Elohim or Eloha is NOT the name of Yahweh the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
2. The word Elohim or Eloha means DEITY ( God or gods)
3. Any Deity can be referred to as Elohim (plural) or Eloha (singular)
4. The Jews rarely call their God Yahweh by name, rather they will call him by the titles:
Adoni (Lord)
Elohim (Plural Majesty of Eloha)
The Praised One (Hashim)
Deut 6:4
Hear, Israel: LORD JEHOVAH our God, LORD JEHOVAH is One:
Is the central scripture repeated 3 time a day as the Jews pray in the synagogue or temple.

If you have objection to the above, then FIRST explain :
why Allah calls himself WE or OURSELF as Allah claims to be one!

Then we can explain further

RightChannel:


Masculine plural below the second red underlined, so what did you understand by the word masculine plural?

Maynman:

Yes mohammed was kissing for fun.

“I saw the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) kissing you, I would not have kissed you. And this is our position!”

“I saw the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.”

AntiChristian:


Muhammad did kissed his wives also!
Then he must have been worshiping them all too!

AntiChristian:


Muhammad did kissed his wives also!
Then he must have been worshiping them all too!

AntiChristian:

Otem ko Otem ni!

AntiChristian:


Elohim is masculine and translated as gods in your attachment!

In Genesis 1:1, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Elohim is the same masculine plural!

In Genesis 32:28, where Jacob fought God aka Angel, Elohim is the same masculine plural!

In Exodus 22:20, Elohim is gods, Elohim is the same masculine plural!

In Exodus 7:1, Moses was Elohim to Pharaoh, Elohim is the same masculine plural!

So?

preciousee17:


But he's right.
And yes! I'm a Christian.

The fact that the word means gods/God/the sons of God/heavenly beings shouldn't make you insult the brother.
Remember, your (our) own 'Elohim' came out to say that His name is Yahweh, Jehovah...

So He's different from the other entities that can be classified as Elohim.

preciousee17:

Again, on the part of the Muslim brother, this is a pointless argument, what was the aim? That we are worshipping Angels or gods?
Remember, that same 'Elohim' is who you all refer to when you use the old testament of the Bible to confirm your Abrahamic and Allah-ic stories...

Maynman:

Does he do tawaaf around his wives before kissing them?

Before mohammed was born, the black stone was been kissed and venerated. He even went for pilgrimage in Mecca before he started Islam.

AntiChristian:


The worship started from Abraham! And since you don't believe they built the Kaaba, then nothing more!

RightChannel:



To prove himself from the Holy Bible is what that is giving him headache, why not talk to him to tell us the name of his own Version

But you said you're a Christian why now a Muslim? Address your dilemma and re-tagged my moniker