I am constantly amazed at the gross spiritual apathy and blasphemy of men and women, supposedly "Christians," who possess a woeful ignorance of the true meaning of the Kingdom of God.

As shocking as it may seem, millions of people who consider themselves perfectly knowledgeable of the prophetic scriptures are today working earnestly in a misguided effort to help Satan and the Beast of Revelation establish their latter days global kingdom.

Disgustingly, these millions of "evangelical" and "fundamentalist" Christians actually believe that in helping Satan and the Beast set up their bloody kingdom on earth, they are, in reality, serving God.

Their callous disregard for scriptural integrity brings graphically to mind our Lord's dire warning that as the end of time draws near, the religious of this world will kill true Christians and think they do God service (John 16:2).


A Satanic Emblem for Israel's Kingdom

Some years ago, while attending a prophecy conference in Florida, I encountered a sincere but deluded woman proudly wearing a necklace bearing the so-called Jewish Star of David, the six-pointed star. She had no idea that this star secretly represents the number 666, that occultists universally call it the hexagram, and that Satanists regularly use the six-pointed star in their satanic rituals and invocations.

This same woman gushingly told me she was a "lover of the nation-state of Israel." She bragged of giving large sums of money to a militant Jewish group in Jerusalem that has as its goal the blowing up of the Islamic mosque and the setting up of a new temple for the Jews atop its ruins.

"But," I inquired of the woman, "are you not aware of II Thessalonians 2, which prophesies that the Antichrist, the Son of Perdition, shall show himself in such a temple, and blasphemously declare that he is above God?"

"Well, yes," she offered. "But isn't that a good thing? That would hasten the coming of the Kingdom of the Jews, wouldn't it?"

"The Kingdom of the Jews?," I repeated, almost incredulous.

"Oh sure," she excitedly exclaimed. "That is what the Scofield Bible, which my husband and I love, says. The Jews shall reign over all the earth. They are God's Chosen. In helping them to rebuild their great temple, I am helping to usher in the Kingdom of the Jews."

"My dear Sister," I confided, "You cannot serve God and the Devil at one and the same time. You cannot, on the one hand, help Jews, who despise our Saviour, Jesus Christ, rebuild their blasphemous temple in which they intend to carry out animal sacrifices. This would be mocking the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Do you really believe that in doing that, you are serving God?"

But, she objected, "in helping the Jews rise to power, I am serving God!"

"You cannot give money to help build Satan's kingdom," I explained, "and in doing so, please our Lord God. If the Zionist Jews are doggedly determined to mock and disrespect the truth, why should you, a Christian, help make that come to fruition?"

"Moreover," I concluded, "Are you not aware that it was Jesus Himself who prophesied that the Jewish Temple would be destroyed, stone by stone. And it was destroyed, by the Romans in 70 AD. You, therefore, are working to undo what God has done. Are you more wise than God?"

"But," she again protested, "God needs a place to live. He needs an earthly temple. And he needs a Holy City, Jerusalem, a capital for the Jewish Kingdom!"

The Jewish Star of David secretly honors Lucifer under the disguise of Remphan, the ancient Egyptian "Star" god. In Acts 7:39-43 the blessed martyr Stephen blasted the Jews, prophetically declaring, "Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon." (For more documentation about the occultic, six-pointed star, see the book, The Six-Pointed Star, by Dr. O.J. Graham, a converted Jew.)


Earthly Jerusalem vs. New Jerusalem

I had no more time to spare. If I did, I would have informed this poor creature that God has no need of a temple built with human hands. I would have patiently explained to her that, in any event, God considers the earthly Jerusalem, the intended world capital of the Jews, so wicked He compares it to "Sodom and Egypt" (Revelation 11:8 ).

I would also liked to have brought to her attention the prophetic fact that earthly Jerusalem is a doomed city in bondage to Satan (Galatians 4:25-26). But, thank God, our Lord Jesus has prepared for His bride, the Christian Church, a fabulous New Jerusalem:

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband" -Revelation 21:2


However, I suspected that this unfortunate woman was not interested in the heavenly New Jerusalem of Scripture. She was far too enamored of the earthly city of Jerusalem, site of what she was sure was going to be a global empire to be presided over by the worldly leaders and rabbis of the Jewish race she so devoutly idealized.

How sad and tragic. Like so many Christians, this pitiful lady had bought into the monstrous heresies first brought into the Church by Cyrus Scofield, a corrupt, crooked lawyer funded by Zionist Jews from New York City in the late 19th century. Scofield's heresies promoting a Jewish kingdom and an earthly Zionist New World Order to be ruled over by a god-like Jewish race, without any Christian gentiles around to mess things up, soon became fashionable among some apostate denominations, especially among the Southern Baptists and their heavily Masonic Lodge membership.

Of course, the confused, but sincere woman wearing the hideous six-pointed star that day down in Florida had little knowledge of this Zionist plot by Scofield and his Jewish cohorts. She was a victim of some modern-day charlatan, perhaps a Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, or Billy Graham, who had infused her with the Jewish fables against which the Apostle Paul long ago warned us to avoid (see Titus 1:14).


Money for the Master Race

For years, she and others have been taught that the Jews are the Master Race, that Christ-rejecting Jews, by virtue of their blood and fleshly race, are "God's Chosen" people. The deceived multitudes are, after all, constantly surrounded by the smooth words of Zionist fanatics like San Antonio's John Hagee and Left Behind's Tim LaHaye telling them that the Jews comprise a "holy nation," that if they give money to the Jews to go toward their worldly kingdom, God will prosper them and that someday, after Christian gentiles are raptured up, the ruling Jews can get on with building their long-sought earthly Kingdom.


Jesus Not Our King in Heaven

As one pro-Zionist "Christian" publication recently explained it, Jesus Christ is not our King in heaven, he's only the groom of the church. According to the Scofield-inspired crowd, Jesus has been demoted. He's up in Heaven today wandering around in a Jewish human body without a throne, waiting for a second opportunity to someday be King of the Jews.

Cyrus I. Scofield and his heretical "Bible" continue today to be idolized by Southern Baptist leaders, Pentecostal and charismatic teachers, and millions of deceived evangelicals. In fact, as documented in Joseph Canfield’s stunning exposé book, The Incredible Scofield and His Book, Mr. Scofield was a crooked, adulterous lawyer who abandoned his wife and was paid handsomely by New York Jewish plotters to betray the Christian faith.


Scofield planted "Judaizer seeds" in his Bible commentaries denying Christ’s heavenly kingdom, whereas Jesus had proclaimed to Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36). Scofield and his Talmudic Jewish mentors conceived of a coming worldly kingdom led by powerful Jews who would reign over inferior Gentiles for a thousand years. Jewish rabbis everywhere must be laughing hysterically that the preposterous Scofield scam has worked out so beautifully over the years.


The Kingdom of God, say the Judaizers and Zionists, is not in heaven, nor is it in the hearts of men and women who have faith in Jesus their Lord. The Kingdom is the property exclusively of the Jews right here on earth!

This, then, is the final landing point of the heretical, Satanic journey and amusement ride on which the Zionist schemers are enthusiastically jockeying the Christian masses. Jesus, who was killed by the Jews after he told Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world," is once again humiliated and degraded. Rejected almost two thousand years ago as King of the Jews, He is today rejected by Zionists and Judaizers as a heavenly Monarch as well. His heavenly crown is ripped from His brow. He is barred from the heavenly throne.

While Jesus is demoted and shunted aside, a mere human race, the Jews, are spiritually and materially enthroned and exalted. Soon, we are told, the Jews shall have the kingdom for which they have lusted throughout the centuries since before the days of John the Baptist. Of course, to guarantee this earthly kingdom, the Gentile Christians are first to be raptured and out of the way. Only then, say the Judaizers, can the racially blessed and God-favored Jews rise to the pinnacle of universal power. It is supposedly the destiny of the Jews to be god-men and rulers of planet earth.


The Kingdom Reserved for the Overcomers

Well, I have news for these Zionist and Judaizer schemers and plotters. Under the authority of God's majestic and incomparable Word, we can with assurance confidently proclaim that Zion is the destination and home only of born again Christian believers, people saved through faith in Jesus and not as a result of their flesh and blood or by accident of their national origins.

The prophecies of God clearly tell us that it is not just Jews who shall inherit the Kingdom and have power over the nations, but whoseoever believeth on the name of Jesus, for He has overcome the world, and we are of Him:

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations."
(Revelation 2:26)

The Kingdom of our Lord Jesus is not a future Kingdom, and He is not interested in sitting on an earthly throne in Jerusalem. Indeed, God scathingly identifies wicked, earthly Jerusalem as the "Great City, Babylon" (Revelation 18). He also brands this filthy city of earthly Jerusalem as "Sodom and Egypt" (Revelation 11:8 ).

No, Jesus' Kingdom is not future. It is not limited to earthly habitation. It is alive. It is eternal. It exists now. Our Father in Heaven has declared His Majesty, and who is able to deny Jesus His deserved crown and Kingdom?

"But unto the Son He saith, THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER."
(Hebrews 1:8 )

The Apostle Paul told us that all who trust in Jesus as Lord are already entered into His Kingdom. We are even now "situated in heavenly places" (see Col. 1:13; I Thes. 2:12; Hebrews 12:22). Friends, would you then trade in your heavenly and joyous abode for a man-made residence here on this tumultuous, depraved planet earth? Well, count me out! My calling, destiny and hope is to reside in glory with Christ Jesus, not to remain here, on this doomed, miserable pile of dirt and rocks called planet earth. If the Jews and their Judaizer associates want it that bad, let them have this planet.


No Zion Without King Jesus

The true Kingdom of Zion is, in fact, the New Jerusalem, a heavenly city and habitat built by God without human hands. What's more, citizenship in Zion is based not on race and blood. A person must be chosen by the King of Zion and must be born again into this Kingdom (John 3:3). Citizenship in this marvelous Kingdom is the privilege of believers.

The wonderful thing is that there can be no Zion without a King. And the Word of God trumpets the indisputable Truth: There is No King but King Jesus!

Texe Mars

Like many , I was among the deceived in years gone by and changed my point of view for the following reasons :


1. Most of the Jews in ISRAEL today outrightly reject Jesus Christ. In the past I thought no one could exceed the Muslims in blasphemy, but I will at some point post some videos here about how Jewish comedians in Israel and people alike mock Jesus with scenes that make Hamas look like kindergarten.


2. I have watched multiple wars in Lebanon and Gaza and when I see the bodies of whole families scooped up like dirt it pains me beyond comprehension.

God is no respecter of persons. Christians ( I was one of them ) who supported and still support Israel and its atrocious wars should immediately repent.

God is not with Israel when they use white Phosphorus to blow up Palestinian children. God is not with Israel when they kick out families from their own homes without compensation.

3. The current Jerusalem is not our hope, our hope is the new Jerusalem

4. Jews are not GOD's chosen people , the church is GOD's chosen people comprising of the Jews and Gentiles.

5. Most of the leadership in Israel is atheist and God hating.

I will add more to this list.

But suffice me to say that supporting Israel is not in the will of GOD.

Let me know your thoughts !!

Warning !!!

This is not a JEW bashing thread, so desist from offensive remarks.

I am still 1000% pro Jew but also 1000% anti-Zionist Israel, if this makes sense to you !!

yawns!!!

So did I after reading the initial article   

Anyway this is solely for Christians to comment - thanks for passing through  

BTW my stance on ISLAM still remains, so don't get too excited 

frosbel:

Warning !!!

This is not a JEW bashing thread, so desist from offensive remarks.

I am still 1000% pro Jew but also 1000% anti-Zionist Israel, if this makes sense to you !!

Nah you're contradicting yourself. Zionism is a political movement that represents the desire for self-determination of the jewish people.
The above statement is exactly similar to one that islamists (whose singular goal is the destruction of the jews) use all the time.

first of all make no mistake - the founding of the land of Israel in 1948 was GOD ORDAINED - Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

To say you are anti-zionist is to put yourself on the opposite side of that prophecy.

frosbel:

1. Most of the Jews in ISRAEL today outrightly reject Jesus Christ. In the past I thought no one could exceed the Muslims in blasphemy, but I will at some point post some videos here about how Jewish comedians in Israel and people alike mock Jesus with scenes that make Hamas look like kindergarten.

not a surprise . . . they did this during the time of Christ and it was for a purpose - Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

25 For [size=13pt]I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in[/size].

Brother Paul is quite clear here . . . the purpose for God's deliberate blindness on the jews was so the gospel could reach us.

frosbel:

2. I have watched multiple wars in Lebanon and Gaza and when I see the bodies of whole families scooped up like dirt it pains me beyond comprehension.

God is no respecter of persons. Christians ( I was one of them ) who supported and still support Israel and its atrocious wars should immediately repent.

God is not with Israel when they use white Phosphorus to blow up Palestinian children. God is not with Israel when they kick out families from their own homes without compensation.

War is war. It is never pretty . . . and i believe this one-sided hypocritical condemnation of Israel ALONE is symptomatic of anti-semitism. You think if the arabs had the same weapons Israel would still be standing today? How many other nations have had to fight CONSTANTLY just to survive as a people? Are you also condemning wars by nations like Nigeria, USA, UK, Germany, Japan, Sierra leone, Italy, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon e.t.c? Should we all repent since we support our country of birth who rendered my people (the igbo) destitute, poor and hopeless during the civil war?

When you talk about "kicking out families without compensation" . . . are you aware that these cases were decided by the Israeli supreme court after YEARS of litigation or are you simply swallowing the UK guardian's blatantly one-sided angle? So are you also claiming God is not with Nigeria when your government kicks out people in Maroko to build Lekki for example?

when will this Israel ONLY blame game stop?

frosbel:

3. The current Jerusalem is not our hope, our hope is the new Jerusalem

Correct.

frosbel:

4. Jews are not GOD's chosen people , the church is GOD's chosen people comprising of the Jews and Gentiles.

You are wrong. Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 [size=13pt]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance[/size].

God will not change his mind or his word simply because you dont like palestinians being kicked out of squatter homes that belong legally to jews.

frosbel:

5. Most of the leadership in Israel is atheist and God hating.

Same as with the leadership in Nigeria and the UK . . . do you not support these nations too?
Romans 11 already foretold this so it isnt anything new.

frosbel:

But suffice me to say that supporting Israel is not in the will of GOD.

Ps 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

Nah you're contradicting yourself. Zionism is a political movement that represents the desire for self-determination of the jewish people.

I understand what Zionism is, this is about Christian Zionism

first of all make no mistake - the founding of the land of Israel in 1948 was GOD ORDAINED

Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

This happened when the Jews returned from Babylonian exile, during the time of Nehemiah .

To say you are anti-zionist is to put yourself on the opposite side of that prophecy

Majority of Israel Jews mock Christ and Christians , I am sorry but many are anti-Christ.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.

Are you serioulsy telling me that if Jews reject Christ they will be saved by some other means 

Not a surprise . . . they did this during the time of Christ and it was for a purpose - Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.  9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

25 For [size=13pt]I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in[/size].

Do you know that there are tens of thousands of Jewish converts to Born again Christianity. It has and is already happening.

Brother Paul is quite clear here . . . the purpose for God's deliberate blindness on the jews was so the gospel could reach us.

True.

But Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was an apostle to the Jews.

War is war. It is never pretty . . . and i believe this one-sided hypocritical condemnation of Israel ALONE is symptomatic of anti-semitism

Now you have hit the nail on the head !!! You have used the A word , Anti-Semitism which is a word freely thrown around when anyone has a different point of view from the Zionists ( not you by the way   )

You think if the arabs had the same weapons Israel would still be standing today? [/b]How many other nations have had to fight CONSTANTLY just to survive as a people? Are you also condemning wars by nations like Nigeria, USA, UK, Germany, Japan, Sierra leone, Italy, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon e.t.c? Should we all repent since we support our country of birth who rendered my people (the igbo) destitute, poor and hopeless during the civil war?

The bolded strikes a chord of truth

When you talk about [b]"kicking out families without compensation" . . . are you aware that these cases were decided by the Israeli supreme court after YEARS of litigation or are you simply swallowing the UK guardian's blatantly one-sided angle? So are you also claiming God is not with Nigeria when your government kicks out people in Maroko to build Lekki for example?

Clarify what you mean here , not quite sure I get it !

when will this Israel ONLY blame game stop?

I am anti-Christian Zionist not anti-Israel , you should have known better.

Indeed many Jews are against the oppression of the Palestinians !

You are wrong. Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 [size=13pt]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance[/size].

Again  , this can be proven by the fact that tens of thousands if not hundreds are flocking to JESUS.

John 3:3, “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Jesus plainly told Nicodemus, a religious leader over the Jews, that a person cannot enter into the kingdom of God without being born-again. Nicodemus was of course a Jew himself. Jesus did not offer an alternative plan of salvation for Jews.

Some false prophets today, such as televangelist John Hagee, teach that the Jews have their own agreement with God, and thus have no need to be born-again. Hagee is a financially-profited Zionist who teaches a false gospel concerning the Jews. I matters not if you're 100% Jewish biologically, you will go straight to hellfire the moment you die if you have not been born-again of the Spirit of God.

A person can only be born-again through faith in Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of God (Acts 4:10-12). A horrible sinner who believes on Jesus Christ will be saved (Romans 10:13). The most noblest of self-righteous Jews who deny Jesus as the Messiah will go to Hell forever (Isaiah 64:6; 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9; Revelation 20:11-15).

The Bible is irrefutably clear,  Ye must be born again (John 3:7).

It is sinful to think that just because someone is biologically Jewish that they are better than anyone else, or that Jews mean more to God than Gentiles, or that Jews don't have to be born-again as Jesus commanded. Jews are no more special to God than Gentiles, although God does have a special purpose for the nation of Israel in prophecy.

Biblically, no Jew can enter into God's kingdom without being born-again. I do not say this to be unkind in any way, for everyone needs to be born-again, Jew and Gentile alike. The reason why false prophets like John Hagee teach that Jews don't need to be born-again is because Judaism denies the Messiah. That's right, the mainstream Jewish religion of Judaism rejects Jesus Christ completely. They deny that Jesus is the Son of God. God hates Judaism, because they are a bunch of liars according to 1st John 2:22. Islam is also of the Devil, and no Muslim will ever see Heaven who doesn't get born-again.

The Bible is unapologetically clear,  Ye must be born again (John 3:7).

Those who attempt to get to Heaven some other way are thieves and robbers (John 10:1,9). If you think you are automatically going to Heaven just because you are biologically Jewish, you are sadly mistaken. You are wrong. If you think following the Mosaic law is going to get you into God's kingdom, then you are wrong again.

The Bible is adamantly clear,  Ye must be born again (John 3:7).

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Judaism/must_be_reborn.htm

frosbel:

The Bible is irrefutably clear,  Ye must be born again (John 3:7).

It is sinful to think that just because someone is biologically Jewish that they are better than anyone else, or that Jews mean more to God than Gentiles, or that Jews don't have to be born-again as Jesus commanded. Jews are no more special to God than Gentiles, although God does have a special purpose for the nation of Israel in prophecy.

The Bible is unapologetically clear,  Ye must be born again (John 3:7).


The Bible is adamantly clear,  Ye must be born again (John 3:7).

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Judaism/must_be_reborn.htm

these are not issues that require a debate to a bible believer . . . Romans 11 is quite clear - 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For[b] this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins[/b].

Paul is not saying that Jews are automatic shoo-ins for the kingdom, they also need to turn from their ungodliness and be born again! However, God deals with the jews AS A PEOPLE (pls ready verse 26) as compared to the gentiles who He deals with as individuals.

Your argument and the argument of those you quote is that God's covenant with Abraham somehow got lost along the way . . . and God is no longer obliged to fulfill it or He lied when He promised Abraham that He would keep His covenant with his children FOREVER. Verse 29 puts that lie to rest.

frosbel:

I understand what Zionism is, this is about Christian Zionism

there is no difference. The command that those who BLESS Israel will be blessed and vice versa hasnt been thrown away. Ps 122 says to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

frosbel:

This happened when the Jews returned from Babylonian exile, during the time of Nehemiah .

No. Pls read that verse again - Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

the phrase "whither they be gone" suggests they were scattered across many lands and not just living in exile in Babylon. Isaiah clarifies this a bit better - Is 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, who shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

The children of Judah were dispersed to the four corners of the earth only once! During the final roman war that created the palestine we know today.

frosbel:

Majority of Israel Jews mock Christ and Christians , I am sorry but many are anti-Christ.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.

The same applies to any gentile who denies Christ. But you dont attribute their unbelief to denigrate their entire nation now do you? So because many jews mock Christ we should throw away God's covenant with them? Verse 29 of Romans 11 disagrees with you.

frosbel:

Are you serioulsy telling me that if Jews reject Christ they will be saved by some other means 

Nope. Verse 26 of Romans 11 still insists they have to turn away from their ungodliness to be saved.

frosbel:

But Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was an apostle to the Jews.

and Paul was trying to caution against the very same sentiments that you espouse here! Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 [size=13pt]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee[/size].
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

25 [size=13pt]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits[/size]; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

frosbel:

Now you have hit the nail on the head !!! You have used the A word , Anti-Semitism which is a word freely thrown around when anyone has a different point of view from the Zionists ( not you by the way   )

Not exactly, anti-semitism is a word used to describe those who exhibit symptoms of the "blame Israel for the sun refusing to shine today" game. you blame Israel for defending itself against 22 arab nations determined to destroy it? Were you also critical of the Russian crushing of Georgia? Do you worry about the use of chemical weapons by the US and the UK? Are you equally worried about the wars in Syria or are we focused SOLELY on Israel ALONE?

frosbel:

Clarify what you mean here , not quite sure I get it !

Simple. you hear a lot about jews kicking palestinians out of their "homes" . . . what they dont tell you is that most of these homes were either built without permits or jewish homes that were confiscated by the Jordanian army in 1949. What they dont also tell you is that the decisions to remove those palestinian squatters usually comes after YEARS of litigation in Israeli courts!

I usually find such accusations funny considering the penalty for leasing a home to a jew in the westbank, syria or Jordan is death. But of course . . . lets just blame Israel.

frosbel:

I am anti-Christian Zionist not anti-Israel , you should have known better.

Its one and the same. open your eyes.

frosbel:

Indeed many Jews are against the oppression of the Palestinians !

no oppression is going on. Many of you have been brainwashed.

frosbel:

Again  , this can be proven by the fact that tens of thousands if not hundreds are flocking to JESUS.

we thank God

3 questions :


1. Do you agree that the church is an antitype of Israel and that we now have 1 Israel not 2.

The True Israel today consists of both Jew and Gentile , right ?


2. That GOD explicitly forbids violence in the New testament , are you suggesting that GOD sanctions disproportionate violence against a stone age army ? In other words , God tells Christians not to retaliate with violence but peace ,  and then tells Israel that they can blast their enemies into oblivion , right ?


3. Can a JEW be saved without Christ ?


4. Do you support the Nihilist attitude of the Christian Zionists such as Pat Robertson and John Hagee ?




I hope you are not a jingoist 

frosbel:

3 questions :

1. Do you agree that the church is an antitype of Israel and that we now have 1 Israel not 2.

The True Israel today consists of both Jew and Gentile , right ?

There is a spiritual Israel and there still remains a physical Israel . . . God's promises to Abraham will not be nullified on the whims of human reasoning.

Gen 12: 15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

It is either God's promises are true or can be voided when we say so. which is it?

While it is true that there is now a spiritual Israel (gentile nation by salvation) . . . the fact that it stands side by side with a physical Israel is quite clearly enunciated in Romans 11.

frosbel:

2. That GOD explicitly forbids violence in the New testament , are you suggesting that GOD sanctions disproportionate violence against a stone age army ? In other words , God tells Christians not to retaliate with violence but peace ,  and then tells Israel that they can blast their enemies into oblivion , right ?

I dont understand this question. Is Israel the only country in the world that has a standing army that has gone to battle before?

First of all let me disabuse this silly notion of "disproportionate violence against a stone age army" . . . its the most ridiculous accusation leveled against Israel ALONE. Is it "disproportionate response" for the US to nuke Japan TWICE during the 2nd world war? Is it disproportionate response for America to use drones to blow up al qaeda millitants armed with AK47s? What would be a "proportionate response" for Israel against Lebanon or Jordan should it be attacked again as it has been in 1948, 1953, 1967, 1973 and 1982? Employ stones and sticks? Do you equally advice the UK millitary to use stones and suicide bombers in Iraq?

Sorry but the idiocy of this "question" is just hard to stomach. Should Israel have responded with your much vaunted "peace" it would have ceased to exist as a people in 1948. I wonder if you also ask that Nigeria responds with "peace" should we be attacked by Cameroun.

frosbel:

3. Can a JEW be saved without Christ ?

Read romans 11: 23 and 26.
when you're done then read the epistles of Peter to the Jews. Clearly salvation is only through Christ Jesus.

frosbel:

4. Do you support the Nihilist attitude of the Christian Zionists such as Pat Robertson and John Hagee ?

Nihilistic in what sense? that they are strong supporters of the jewish nation?
Oh yeah i support them . . . if all Israel had to depend on was the irresponsible and one-sided nonsense from people like you they would have been swallowed by Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt and syria in 1948.

frosbel:

I hope you are not a jingoist 

Where are the bible verses to support your stance?

And this is how your so called GOD chosen people behave , right !!!


[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfQu5HFZQPY?version=3&hl=en[/flash]


No David , you missed it here, these are not God's chosen people, we the Christians ( both Jew and Gentile ) are.

We are waiting for a new Jerusalem not the old Jerusalem which the bible refers to as Sodom.

"and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified." (Revelation 11:8 RSV)

frosbel:

And this is how your so called GOD chosen people behave , right !!!

do most christians behave any better? Israelis are humans too you know, being God's chosen doesnt make them a super race.

frosbel:

No David , you missed it here, these are not God's chosen people, we the Christians ( both Jew and Gentile ) are.

Dont waste my time, provide biblical backing for this nonsense. Was God lying to Abraham when He promised a land to his seed FOREVER?

frosbel:

We are waiting for a new Jerusalem not the old Jerusalem which the bible refers to as Sodom.

Has that ever been in doubt?

frosbel:

"and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified." (Revelation 11:8 RSV)

Verse 1 of Rev 11 suggests a temple will exist at the time of this event. So you would expect that jews would build that temple no? which suggests the jews would be in control of jerusalem right?

Lets not heat up the debate , you know we are both pro-Jew and pro other issues

Anyway will come with some more evidence, but like I always say, i keep an open mind.

@frosbel: I think you have swung from one extreme to the other. Israel today is a mixture of true Jews and false Jews just as it was a mixed multitude then that followed Moses out of Egypt. The Lord knows those who truly are the physical descendants of Jacob. . .the inheritors of the land of Israel as God promised in perpetuity to Abraham.

frosbel:

Are you serioulsy telling me that if Jews reject Christ they will be saved by some other means 

^Only through Jesus can any man whether Jew or Gentile be saved. As the scriptures make plain: God will have mercy on whomsoever He desires to have mercy on. Do you ignore this written in Zechariah?

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Can you indicate when this scripture was fulfilled?

The book of Daniel has much to say concerning present-day Israel. How about studying it.

I am not holding brief for Hagee and the likes. In fact I disagree with most of the pentecostal movement's eschatological doctrines. The attempt to rebuild the Jewish temple is an act of rebellion against God's word (similar to Emperor Justin the Apostate). . .and part of the antichrist delusion that falls upon the church in this last days. Nonetheless, a balanced view of the scripture as highlighted by David above should one to conclude that God has not altogether cast away physical Israel.

Frosbel is a lose cannon, shooting at anything and hitting nothing.

^^

I think you will find that we agree on this issue. I think Hagee is a heretic , calling for war on just about anybody.


Many years ago as I watched Israel planes bomb the hell out of Lebanon and Gaza, some of the pictures were so horrifying to see, but for some reason I switched off my nagging conscience and cheered on the Israel army !

Funny enough my wife who is equally Christian was totally against this intense violence and just kept quiet as my fanatical madness and support of this madness took anti-Christ proportions.

But over the years, I have compared scripture with scripture and have come to the following conclusions :

1. We are to love our enemies and bless them that curse us , NOT KILL THEM

2. After seeing graphic images of war in Iraq and the Arab world , i could not take it anymore. This was murder, period. The bible says thou shall not KILL.

3. The Israel of GOD is US , not Jew , Aryan, Arab or Gentile but US, the Church.


But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. [b]His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two[/b], thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. (Ephesians 2:13-16)

“Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Matthew 12:48-49)

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 8:11-12)

Those who want to impress others by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. [b]Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.[/b] From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen. (Galatians 6: 12-18)

A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God. (Romans 2:28-29).

For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. (Romans 9:6-

Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. (Colossians 3:11-12)
In

Again I am not anti-JEW but anti-Zionist same way I am not anti-MUSLIM but anti-JIHAD.

Simple.

Let us respect but debate these issues in a civil way, just because we disagree does not mean abuses should be thrown freely !!!

Joagbaje:

Frosbel is a lose cannon, shooting at anything and hitting nothing.

Please go back to the false prophets section

Pls insert the link

frosbel:

^^

I think you will find that we agree on this issue. I think Hagee is a heretic , calling for war on just about anybody.


Many years ago as I watched Israel planes bomb the hell out of Lebanon and Gaza, some of the pictures were so horrifying to see, but for some reason I switched off my nagging conscience and cheered on the Israel army !

Hagee is not serious. I suppose he thinks America simply exists to throw bombs on those he disagrees with.

However, Israeli planes bombed Lebanon and Gaza after enduring 8 straight years of constant shelling of Isreali towns. I suppose if you knew that Cameroun was stockpiling missiles and bombs to fire on Nigerians . . . you wouldnt expect GEJ to just smile and say peace now would you?

Woman try sha. Some woman takes him as a husband. Thick skin, I say. patience. Persevere, dear woman.


But who will help evil when God plan to stop him?

The army of Allah may just be ants. Or wind. Or the heat.

Allah decides when enough is enough from Israel.

Sweetnecta:

Woman try sha. Some woman takes him as a husband. Thick skin, I say. patience. Persevere, dear woman.


But who will help evil when God plan to stop him?

The army of Allah may just be ants. Or wind. Or the heat.

Allah decides when enough is enough from Israel.

Okay off you go to the children's section !!

Sweetnecta:

Allah decides when enough is enough from Israel.

allah will be waiting a very long time.

frosbel:

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. [b]His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two[/b], thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. (Ephesians 2:13-16)

“Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Matthew 12:48-49)

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 8:11-12)

Those who want to impress others by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. [b]Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.[/b] From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters. Amen. (Galatians 6: 12-18)

A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God. (Romans 2:28-29).

For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. (Romans 9:6-

Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. (Colossians 3:11-12)
In

So God's promises to Abraham was a lie?
Romans 11 should be consigned to the rubbish heap too?

Woman try sha. Some woman takes him as a husband. Thick skin, I say. patience. Persevere, dear woman.

Dont u think urs tried also??

But who will help evil when God plan to stop him?

The army of Allah may just be ants. Or wind. Or the heat.

Allah decides when enough is enough from Israel.

What Allah Plz keep Moha out of this, this matters re interesting!!

Nice threads, i must say i am appreciating the useful verses qoutations.

By Both Davidwylan and Frosbel.


Pastor Kumuyi said, plz take everything away from me, i dont need a child, i dont need money, i dont need a car, i dont need all those. All i need is holiness and that holiness is Christ.
Can a man enter Gods kingdom without this holiness(Christ) a big non.
Any1 that dream of this kingdom needs to be holy(Christ).
God continue to use Pastor Kumuyi to enrich your children with your true word.

david,from another perspective under the current leadership of nigeria,isn't it possible that an attack from cameroun be treated with laxity?
no retaliation just same old diplomacy

frosbel,pls explain briefly the difference between zionism and christian zionism.
david, will also appreciate your take.

To put a spanner in the works - Suppose those that call themselves Israel today are really not the true descendants of Israel? Suppose they are really Gog, Magog? Afterall the scriptures do say, "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan(Rev 2:9)."

I noticed DavidDylan keeps harping on about God's covenant with Abraham. What you seem to ignore though is that God's covenant with Abraham was to be fulfilled in Christ. God said he would make a New Covenant with Israel - See Jer 31:31 and Heb 8:8. The New Covenant is fulfilled in Christ's blood and supercedes all previous covenants. Romans 10 says:

1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Paul also made it clear in verse 12 that: "12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."

Further we are told in Galatians 3:
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Disproportionate violence is when two snipers are on a hospital roof, and u use an apache to blow the entire building.

Also, when operating in a high population density area, indiscriminate use of lethal force has to be curtailed. Except u are carrying out an extermination.

frosbel:

Like many , I was among the deceived in years gone by and changed my point of view for the following reasons :


1. Most of the Jews in ISRAEL today outrightly reject Jesus Christ. In the past I thought no one could exceed the Muslims in blasphemy, but I will at some point post some videos here about how Jewish comedians in Israel and people alike mock Jesus with scenes that make Hamas look like kindergarten.


2. I have watched multiple wars in Lebanon and Gaza and when I see the bodies of whole families scooped up like dirt it pains me beyond comprehension.

God is no respecter of persons. Christians ( I was one of them ) who supported and still support Israel and its atrocious wars should immediately repent.

God is not with Israel when they use white Phosphorus to blow up Palestinian children. God is not with Israel when they kick out families from their own homes without compensation.

3. The current Jerusalem is not our hope, our hope is the new Jerusalem

4. Jews are not GOD's chosen people , the church is GOD's chosen people comprising of the Jews and Gentiles.

5. Most of the leadership in Israel is atheist and God hating.

I will add more to this list.

But suffice me to say that supporting Israel is not in the will of GOD.

Let me know your thoughts !!

Frosbel, I'm speechless  3 Niger Delta Gbosas to you Sir. I use to think that you are a Jack Van Impe, Pastor John Hagee disciple, those who believe like Gingrich that Palestinians were an invented  people, those who believe that anyone who opposes the state of Israel is going to Hell, now I know better.
I commend you for standing up and holding on to your Faith especially on NL, for challenging and exposing those you believe are using the Christian Faith for selfish gains.

Love to share a pint with you when next I'm in the UK.

Sweetnecta:

Woman try sha. Some woman takes him as a husband. Thick skin, I say. patience. Persevere, dear woman.
But who will help evil when God plan to stop him?
The army of Allah may just be ants. Or wind. Or the heat.
Allah decides when enough is enough from Israel.

Stop sniffing glue abegi. Which woman you dey talk about?

frosbel:

Okay off you go to the children's section !!

Tell him jare.

Joagbaje:

Frosbel is a lose cannon, shooting at anything and hitting nothing. 

Frosbel, I'm speechless  3 Niger Delta Gbosas to you Sir. I use to think that you are a Jack Van Impe, Pastor John Hagee disciple, those who believe like Gingrich that Palestinians were an invented  people, those who believe that anyone who opposes the state of Israel is going to Hell, now I know better.

The first two are well know false prophets and the later is a delusional character.

I commend you for standing up and holding on to your Faith especially on NL, for challenging and exposing those you believe are using the Christian Faith for selfish gains.

Thank You

Love to share a pint with you when next I'm in the UK.

A pint of diet coke will be fine with a tint of red wine.