₦airaland Forum

The name of Muhammad pbuh is not invoked rather prayers are made to Allah to bless him and this is not just in the mosque. Prayers are said most for him yet similar are requested for other prophets from Adam to Jesus pbot.

SIRTee15:
Now if only Allah should be invoked in the mosques why then do u people invoke the name of Muhammed in your mosque by saying
'Peace be upon you oh Prophet'
Is that not contradictory to what your Koran teaches.

You are not mandated to kiss the black stone. In hajj particularly this is often difficult with the multitude of people there. The stone is on a part of the kaabah and circumambulate round this is an act of unity seen in moving together in one direction in a circular fashion to symbolize their belief in and worship of the one true God, Allah.

Circling the Kaaba seven times is a symbolic act meant to reflect the idea that life should revolve around thoughtful contemplation of God (Allah). This act is only done at the kaaba and is one of the 5 acts of pilgrimage.

Allah alone is worthy of worship and is the only one every true believer worships.

SIRTee15:
Then explain why u people kiss the black stone and circle round it 7 times.
It depicts a form of veneration that goes with worship.

Even modern Muslims converts are not buying it the weak explanation.
U Muslims worship the black stone.

https://youtube.com/shorts/oHpt2-oaKZU?si=SSFNZZUK7F64i8Ks

Ohyoudidnt:
You are not mandated to kiss the black stone. In hajj particularly this is often difficult with the multitude of people there. The stone is on a part of the kaabah and circumambulate round this is an act of unity seen in moving together in one direction in a circular fashion to symbolize their belief in and worship of the one true God, Allah.

Circling the Kaaba seven times is a symbolic act meant to reflect the idea that life should revolve around thoughtful contemplation of God (Allah). This act is only done at the kaaba and is one of the 5 acts of pilgrimage.

Allah alone is worthy of worship and is the only one every true believer worships.

Now let me ask u this question
If the kabba translocate to Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca or they will come down to Lagos for the ritual.

Ohyoudidnt:
The name of Muhammad pbuh is not invoked rather prayers are made to Allah to bless him and this is not just in the mosque. Prayers are said most for him yet similar are requested for other prophets from Adam to Jesus pbot.

But why should u pray to the dead. How does that help dead in anyway?

Well if it's a doctrine enshrined in Islam to pray for the dead, I guess there's nothing more to say about that.
In christianity, we dont pray for the dead.

Ohyoudidnt:
You are not mandated to kiss the black stone. In hajj particularly this is often difficult with the multitude of people there. The stone is on a part of the kaabah and circumambulate round this is an act of unity seen in moving together in one direction in a circular fashion to symbolize their belief in and worship of the one true God, Allah.

Circling the Kaaba seven times is a symbolic act meant to reflect the idea that life should revolve around thoughtful contemplation of God (Allah). This act is only done at the kaaba and is one of the 5 acts of pilgrimage.

Allah alone is worthy of worship and is the only one every true believer worships.

You fail to understand the theological error with kissing the black stone during the worship of Allah.

Why should Muslims venerate another object at a time they are gathering to honour their supreme deity.

U are sharing that moment meant to worship Allah with another object!!!

U guys visit muhammed's tomb and mosques, but u don't do it during worship of Allah. U do that during your personal time.
But u kiss the black stone during the period u worship Allah. That's the idolatry.

The location of the Kaaba has always been fixed where it is. Reports talk as far as Adam originality praying there before Abraham and Ismail pbot built it. It is not what man can relocate at will.

Quran 3:95. Say, “God has spoken the truth, so follow the religion of Abraham the Monotheist; he was not a Pagan.”
96. The first house established for mankind is the one at Bekka; blessed, and guidance for all people.
97. In it are evident signs; the Station of Abraham. Whoever enters it attains security. Pilgrimage to the House is a duty to God for all who can make the journey. But as for those who refuse—God is Independent of the worlds.

SIRTee15:
Now let me ask u this question
If the kabba translocate to Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca or they will come down to Lagos for the ritual.

Kissing the black stone is not veneration of the black stone but an act done by some in following the example of Muhammad s.a.w. A hadith even if though there may be reservations about many reports Umar r.a saying he kissed the stone because he saw the prophet pbuh do it. It is in no way an act to confer or share the majesty of Allah with it.

Does showing care to your wife or children considered an act of worship too translate to equating or sharing the majesty of God?
Or geneculating to others in respect?

Your emphasis on kissing the black stone bemuses me. Of the multitude that perform hajj, how many actually get close enough to the stone to kiss it besides it is not an essential part of hajj.

SIRTee15:
You fail to understand the theological error with kissing the black stone during the worship of Allah.

Why should Muslims venerate another object at a time they are gathering to honour their supreme deity.

U are sharing that moment meant to worship Allah with another object!!!

U guys visit muhammed's tomb and mosques, but u don't do it during worship of Allah. U do that during your personal time.
But u kiss the black stone during the period u worship Allah. That's the idolatry.

No muslim prays to the dead. Q16 vs 18-21
“And if you would count God's favours, you will not be able to number them; most surely God is Forgiving, Merciful. And God knows what you conceal and what you do openly. And those whom they call on besides God have not created anything while they are themselves created; Dead (are they), not living, and they know not when they shall be raised.”



Prayers are said for the dead. Quran 59:10. Those who came after them prayed: “Our Lord, forgive us, and our fellow believers who preceded us in faith; and leave no bitterness in our hearts towards believers. Our Lord, You are Compassionate and Merciful.

SIRTee15:
But why should u pray to the dead. How does that help dead in anyway?

Well if it's a doctrine enshrined in Islam to pray for the dead, I guess there's nothing more to say about that.
In christianity, we dont pray for the dead.

Ohyoudidnt:
The location of the Kaaba has always been fixed where it is. Reports talk as far as Adam originality praying there before Abraham and Ismail pbot built it. It is not what man can relocate at will.

Quran 3:95. Say, “God has spoken the truth, so follow the religion of Abraham the Monotheist; he was not a Pagan.”
96. The first house established for mankind is the one at Bekka; blessed, and guidance for all people.
97. In it are evident signs; the Station of Abraham. Whoever enters it attains security. Pilgrimage to the House is a duty to God for all who can make the journey. But as for those who refuse—God is Independent of the worlds.

Mr Man we all know your kabba cannot be moved.
The question is to expose the theology heresy is gathering around a black stone to worship Allah.

I repeat my question.
If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims circumambulate in Mecca or will come to Lagos to do their annual ritual.

Answer the question. It's not a hard question. If you confident of your taowheed u should answer it easily.

Did u watch the YouTube link I sent u, the Muslim guy answered it, why is it so difficult for u?

Ohyoudidnt:
Kissing the black stone is not veneration of the black stone but an act done by some in following the example of Muhammad s.a.w. A hadith even if though there may be reservations about many reports Umar r.a saying he kissed the stone because he saw the prophet pbuh do it. It is in no way an act to confer or share the majesty of Allah with it.

Does showing care to your wife or children considered an act of worship too translate to equating or sharing the majesty of God?
Or geneculating to others in respect?

Your emphasis on kissing the black stone bemuses me. Of the multitude that perform hajj, how many actually get close enough to the stone to kiss it besides it is not an essential part of hajj.

Do I kiss my wife during worship of God.
Imagine raising my hands to God in prayer and then start kissing my wife. How absurd will that be!!!!
Or prostrating to my parents and then start saying Lord I worship u!!! Does that make sense to u.
FYI, during fasting Christians are expected to abstain from sex with their spouse. It's a time for God and any other pleasure should be suspended.

U have not answered my question.

Why should u venerate/honour/kiss or whatever u do to the the black stone at a time Muslims gather to worship their deity in unity. Why must u choose that time to kiss a stone.
Why should u share such holy and sacred moments with kissing a stone.
That's my question.

Why can't a separate time be allocated for people to come to kiss the stone at their leisure if they so wish.
Why must it be the period meant to worship Allah.

That's my question, if u do t know ask your scholars.

Ohyoudidnt:
No muslim prays to the dead. Q16 vs 18-21
“And if you would count God's favours, you will not be able to number them; most surely God is Forgiving, Merciful. And God knows what you conceal and what you do openly. And those whom they call on besides God have not created anything while they are themselves created; Dead (are they), not living, and they know not when they shall be raised.”



Prayers are said for the dead. Quran 59:10. Those who came after them prayed: “Our Lord, forgive us, and our fellow believers who preceded us in faith; and leave no bitterness in our hearts towards believers. Our Lord, You are Compassionate and Merciful.

No Muslim pray to the dead. Qur'an 16
Muslims pray for the dead. Qur'an 59
🤔🤔🤔🤔

Which one should we believe now. Is this not a contradiction.
Is that 59.10 not saying Allah should forgive those who are dead? Is that not praying for the dead?

Well, it's not my business. If Allah said it's fine to pray to the dead, by all means go ahead and do it.
It's your god , not mine.

In christianity we don't pray to the dead neither do we pray for the dead.
Thank u for adding more evidence Allah isn't the God of the bible.

Praying to and praying for; when you pray to God seeking good health and protection are you praying to or for good health and protection?

God is who you pray to and what you pray for are what you want God to do or enable for you.

Sadly you use a small letter g in as much as your Arabic speaking Christians call the Almighty Allah.

SIRTee15:
No Muslim pray to the dead. Qur'an 16
Muslims pray for the dead. Qur'an 59
🤔🤔🤔🤔

Which one should we believe now. Is this not a contradiction.
Is that 59.10 not saying Allah should forgive those who are dead? Is that not praying for the dead?

Well, it's not my business. If Allah said it's fine to pray to the dead, by all means go ahead and do it.
It's your god , not mine.

In christianity we don't pray to the dead neither do we pray for the dead.
Thank u for adding more evidence Allah isn't the God of the bible.

The entire life from birth to death constitutes worship of Allah hence Islam is referred to as a complete way of life. Treating people and your family kindly is an act of worship or do you limit worshipping your God to only when you pray or fast?

Your Bible explicitly says you should honour your father and your mother. Does this mean you worship your parents😄

Muslims are permitted imtimacy with their wives on breaking their fast but not during the fast. Well maybe you refer to the marathon fast some Christians do which include day and night. 😁. Islam encourages fast breaking at every sunset.

SIRTee15:
Do I kiss my wife during worship of God.
Imagine raising my hands to God in prayer and then start kissing my wife. How absurd will that be!!!!
Or prostrating to my parents and then start saying Lord I worship u!!! Does that make sense to u.
FYI, during fasting Christians are expected to abstain from sex with their spouse. It's a time for God and any other pleasure should be suspended.

U have not answered my question.

Why should u venerate/honour/kiss or whatever u do to the the black stone at a time Muslims gather to worship their deity in unity. Why must u choose that time to kiss a stone.
Why should u share such holy and sacred moments with kissing a stone.
That's my question.

Why can't a separate time be allocated for people to come to kiss the stone at their leisure if they so wish.
Why must it be the period meant to worship Allah.

That's my question, if u do t know ask your scholars.

Ohyoudidnt:
Praying to and praying for; when you pray to God seeking good health and protection are you praying to or for good health and protection?

God is who you pray to and what you pray for are what you want God to do or enable for you.

Sadly you use a small letter g in as much as your Arabic speaking Christians call the Almighty Allah.

Enough of all these tautology. The koko is communicating indirectly or directly with someone who's dead.
Why should u pray on behalf of someone who's dead. Why should u stand in gap in prayer for a dead person.
How can that prayer help him.

I pray to God to better my life, to improve my life and be rewarded for faithfulness.
How can a dead person benefit from all these things.

Well seems the afterlife in Islam is different from Christianity.
In christianity, after death comes judgement. Nothing more. Prayer to or for is useless.

Anyway, let's skip this. It's inconsequential if the Koran actually says u guys should pray to or for the dead.

Answer my other questions.

Replied to the text and somehow missed the weblink. I have watched it now and it is quite humorous. The person in the video too is oblivious of Abraham pbuh praying for the Mecca area.

Q14:35. And (remember) when Abraham said: ‘My Lord, make this city secure and distance me and my children from worshipping the idols
37:37. Our Lord, I have settled some of my offspring in a valley of no vegetation, by Your Sacred House, our Lord, so that they may perform the prayers. So make the hearts of some people incline towards them, and provide them with fruits, that they may be thankful.

Quran 2:126
And ˹remember˺ when Abraham said, “My Lord, make this city ˹of Mecca˺ secure and provide fruits to its people—those among them who believe in Allah and the Last Day.” He answered, “As for those who disbelieve, I will let them enjoy themselves for a little while, then I will condemn them to the torment of the Fire. What an evil destination!

With numerous verses of Quran forbidding and abhorring worshiping others beside Allah and idolatry why would muslims then engage in pagan acts?

SIRTee15:
Mr Man we all know your kabba cannot be moved.
The question is to expose the theology heresy is gathering around a black stone to worship Allah.

I repeat my question.
If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims circumambulate in Mecca or will come to Lagos to do their annual ritual.

Answer the question. It's not a hard question. If you confident of your taowheed u should answer it easily.

Did u watch the YouTube link I sent u, the Muslim guy answered it, why is it so difficult for u?

Communicating with the dead? I hope you are not getting carried away. Prayers are to Allah and on occasion you pray for those who have died. The almighty to whom the prayer is made does with the prayer as he likes.

The prayer for the dead is for them to be admitted into paradise.

SIRTee15:
Enough of all these tautology. The koko is communicating indirectly or directly with someone who's dead.
Why should u pray on behalf of someone who's dead. Why should u stand in gap in prayer for a dead person.
How can that prayer help him.

I pray to God to better my life, to improve my life and be rewarded for faithfulness.
How can a dead person benefit from all these things.

Well seems the afterlife in Islam is different from Christianity.
In christianity, after death comes judgement. Nothing more. Prayer to or for is useless.

Anyway, let's skip this. It's inconsequential if the Koran actually says u guys should pray to or for the dead.

Answer my other questions.

Ohyoudidnt:
Replied to the text and somehow missed the weblink. I have watched it now and it is quite humorous. The person in the video too is oblivious of Abraham pbuh praying for the Mecca area.

Q14:35. And (remember) when Abraham said: ‘My Lord, make this city secure and distance me and my children from worshipping the idols
37:37. Our Lord, I have settled some of my offspring in a valley of no vegetation, by Your Sacred House, our Lord, so that they may perform the prayers. So make the hearts of some people incline towards them, and provide them with fruits, that they may be thankful.

Quran 2:126
And ˹remember˺ when Abraham said, “My Lord, make this city ˹of Mecca˺ secure and provide fruits to its people—those among them who believe in Allah and the Last Day.” He answered, “As for those who disbelieve, I will let them enjoy themselves for a little while, then I will condemn them to the torment of the Fire. What an evil destination!

With numerous verses of Quran forbidding and abhorring worshiping others beside Allah and idolatry why would muslims then engage in pagan acts?

I will report u to TenQ.
TenQ, Ohyoudidnt has refused to answer my question
He's just doing whataboutism up and down.

It's a simple question, yet a born Muslim refused to answer. Something a Muslim convert answered easily.

My question remain the same?

If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca on an empty space or they will start doing their annual ritual in Lagos.

This is my question and he's telling me about Abraham establishing kabba. What's my business with that story.

He has refused to allow me expose the theology heresy in Islam.

Ohyoudidnt if u don't know the answer, ask your scholars.

SIRTee15:
I will report u to TenQ.
TenQ, Ohyoudidnt has refused to answer my question
He's just doing whataboutism up and down.

It's a simple question, yet a born Muslim refused to answer. Something a Muslim convert answered easily.

My question remain the same?

If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca on an empty space or they will start doing their annual ritual in Lagos.

This is my question and he's telling me about Abraham establishing kabba. What's my business with that story.

He has refused to allow me expose the theology heresy in Islam.

Ohyoudidnt if u don't know the answer, ask your scholars.

Muslims are possessed by the same spirit: they rarely answer direct questions.

Even when they attempt to answer a question, what it is either a diversion from the subject, a lie manufactured to protect Allah and his prophet Muhammad or they would manufacture their own question and answer it.

It's not surprising o!
That is why I always post my evidence to them upfront for just like demons, during deliverance you can't trust their utterances!

Do you want them to implicate Allah and his Messenger Mohammed!?

Interesting. Is Tenq the police or judge? Are you sure I am a born Muslim? Your question is a whatabout question or isn't it?

If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca on an empty space or they will start doing their annual ritual in Lagos.

Why will Allah bring about such confusion? Certainly a verse in the Quran points at a time when muslims faced a different direction then they were directed to the Kaaba in Mecca.

The guidance of man has been completed and will not change so the Kaaba cannot suddenly appear in Lagos. Are you seeking a rewriting of history or new creation?

SIRTee15:
I will report u to TenQ.
TenQ, Ohyoudidnt has refused to answer my question
He's just doing whataboutism up and down.

It's a simple question, yet a born Muslim refused to answer. Something a Muslim convert answered easily.

My question remain the same?

If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca on an empty space or they will start doing their annual ritual in Lagos.

This is my question and he's telling me about Abraham establishing kabba. What's my business with that story.

He has refused to allow me expose the theology heresy in Islam.

Ohyoudidnt if u don't know the answer, ask your scholars.

Ohyoudidnt:
Interesting. Is Tenq the police or judge? Are you sure I am a born Muslim? Your question is a whatabout question or isn't it?

If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca on an empty space or they will start doing their annual ritual in Lagos.

Why will Allah bring about such confusion? Certainly a verse in the Quran points at a time when muslims faced a different direction then they were directed to the Kaaba in Mecca.

The guidance of man has been completed and will not change so the Kaaba cannot suddenly appear in Lagos. Are you seeking a rewriting of history or new creation?

So are u claiming Allah doesn't entertain possibilities in his messages and guidance to mankind? Is that your claim?

Ok let me ask u another question, answer this then we go back to the kabba question.

If God truly has a Son, should that Son be worshipped?


Answer this simple question first b4 going back to the one u must answer by fire by force today.

I am not saying Allah doesn't entertain possibilities. There are Quran verses that ask what if questions.

If God truly had a son which goes against all what Allah says of himself why should he be worshipped when Allah is the one to be worshipped? Simply no he shouldn't be worshipped after all his father is everlasting and all able or isn't he?

SIRTee15:
So are u claiming Allah doesn't entertain possibilities in his messages and guidance to mankind? Is that your claim?

Ok let me ask u another question, answer this then we go back to the kabba question.

If God truly has a Son, should that Son be worshipped?


Answer this simple question first b4 going back to the one u must answer by fire by force today.

Ohyoudidnt:
I am not saying Allah doesn't entertain possibilities. There are Quran verses that ask what if questions.

If God truly had a son which goes against all what Allah says of himself why should he be worshipped when Allah is the one to be worshipped? Simply no he shouldn't be worshipped after all his father is everlasting and all able or isn't he?

Ohyoudidnt u need to read your Koran a bit more.
U guys waste so much time on the bible looking for mistakes u don't know enough about your Koran.

If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped?
According to the Koran, the answer is YES.


Say: "If (Allah) Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship."

Qur'an 43.81

Funny that I don't go looking for mistakes in the Bible or with Christianity rather the Tenq you mentioned earlier has so many threads on his perceived errors in Islam which you subscribe to.

You quoted a verse from the Quran but didn't pick the sarcasm there as it starts with an if then folows with the verses:
Q43:82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.

83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.

SIRTee15:
Ohyoudidnt u need to read your Koran a bit more.
U guys waste so much time on the bible looking for mistakes u don't know enough about your Koran.

If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped?
According to the Koran, the answer is YES.


Say: "If (Allah) Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship."

Qur'an 43.81

Ohyoudidnt:
Funny that I don't go looking for mistakes in the Bible or with Christianity rather the Tenq you mentioned earlier has so many threads on his perceived errors in Islam which you subscribe to.

You quoted a verse from the Quran but didn't pick the sarcasm there as it starts with an if then folows with the verses:
Q43:82. Glorified be the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, beyond what they describe.

83. So leave them to blunder and play, until they encounter their Day which they are promised.

Do u want me to bring the tafsir of that verse?

O Prophet tell the Christians: "If the Compassionate (Allah) had a son, I (Muhammad) would be the first to worship him."

Ok maybe u don't attack the bible but other Muslims do it here.

Anyway this isn't about the verse but to let u know that Allah entertain possibilities. Even if the outcome is an impossibility.

Now that we know ifs question is not an anathema in Islam, answer my original question

If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca around an empty space or they will start doing their annual ritual in Lagos.

It's a simple question, a new Muslim convert answered it, what are u afraid of? 🤷🤷🤷🤷

SIRTee15:
Do u want me to bring the tafsir of that verse?

O Prophet tell the Christians: "If the Compassionate (Allah) had a son, I (Muhammad) would be the first to worship him."

Ok maybe u don't attack the bible but other Muslims do it here.

Anyway this isn't about the verse but to let u know that Allah entertain possibilities. Even if the outcome is an impossibility.

Now that we know ifs question is not an anathema in Islam, answer my original question

If the kabba suddenly appears in Lagos. Will Muslims continue to circumambulate in Mecca around an empty space or they will start doing their annual ritual in Lagos.

It's a simple question, a new Muslim convert answered it, what are u afraid of? 🤷🤷🤷🤷

No I won't but won't speak for others. There are many deceptions that are abound today and are likely to increase

Ohyoudidnt:
No I won't but won't speak for others. There are many deceptions that are abound today and are likely to increase

The response is ambiguous.
No u won't do which one, continue to circumambulate in Mecca or move to Lagos with the kabba.
Which one would u not do. Pls be clear.

I wouldn't take the 'suddenly appeared Kaaba in Lagos' as a place of pilgrimage or guiding point of worship. Will face the east as best I can however whichever way I face in prayer Allah should answer my prayer.

SIRTee15:
The response is ambiguous.
No u won't do which one, continue to circumambulate in Mecca or move to Lagos with the kabba.
Which one would u not do. Pls be clear.