Iolo:

Our ancestors were definitely corrupt and greedy. Without both there wuda bin no slavery in the first place. Cause everybody would have stOod their ground and said No.

The white's were not taking our people by force, slaves were sold for foreign goods.

Thank you

manmustwac:

@post
If corruption is cultural and not political dose that mean that our ancestors were corrupt before the British brought civilization when they started to colonize us in the 1800s?

I think you are confusing tradition for culture.
Culture is never static.

eGuerrilla:

I think you are confusing tradition for culture.
Culture is never static.

Good point. Culture is the development/improvement by any sort of education or training, something you can learn it and at the same time do away with it, but tradition is passsing down the culture from one generation to the other and it is just inevitable.

The corruption among public office holders is in no small measure, caused by the same public who accuse these officials of being corrupt! I recently honoured an invitation to present one of my projects to an old friend who is now in government! As early as 7:45 am when I got there, the crowd I saw at the premises will make some self-ordained pastors green with envy - with hawkers of gala, recharge cards, pure water, etc. From my observation while waiting to see him, 99% of the crowd just came to solicit for one form of financial assistance if not outright cash handouts. Now, if we are honest with ourselves, with these much expectations and pressure, why are we now accusing them of corruption when we are the ones that instigate the corruption in the first place? May God help us all. Amen!

I agree with this thread. There's this myth that the military brought corruption to Nigeria. There has always been corruption in the old states that now make up modern Nigeria.

With modernisation, there is greater recognition of the menace of corruption and a desire, albeit hardly followed up with concrete action, to eradicate it. A classic example is corruption amongst political leaders. In the past, your average ruler operated with utter disregard of any idea of accountability to the general public. This is slightly changing. 

In some respect, the idea that a Governor or President should not enrich himself is alien to us as traditionally, such enrichment was taken as par for the course for a political leader.

Iolo and Horus, u guys r just too right!

Like i always tell people. Initial society does not make man, Man makes initial society.

It takes d later to kick off on d right foot den the former will automatically continue on the right foot

Problem with 9ja therefore is the later took off on the wrong foot so the former has continued on the wrong foot.

Indeed its a problem from our fore fathers. Its cultural therefore rather than political or party related. Therefore, even if AC, ACN, ANPP etc where in power, it will still b d same corrupt day to day runnings of the government

I think the problem is that the bad is rewarded in Nigeria. Nigeria is an aggressive society and If you are not aggressive, you will be stomped on. The ones that follow the rules and do everything according to the law are often punished. For example, if you are following traffic laws and moving at the suggested speed and waiting for stop signs, but if no one else is following that law, you will realized that you will be the person hit or injured or the person that have the biggest money is the one seen first at the doctors office, this might prompt others to come withe bigger cash next time they are waiting in line for something, Once people see that following the law is working and people that are disobedient are punished, you will definitely see a change in society attitudes.

Very interesting topic.

I'm very happy that most of us are now starting to wake up one by one.
Politicians are not the only corrupt group of people in this country, everybody is corrupt. Politicians may be making the most money from the sad situation our country is up against, but we must never forget that corruption is a vampire that has touched almost every human being in Nigeria. It is a rule in Nigeria that without a kickback, nobody can survive.
That is, in order for anyone in Nigeria to be successful, Corruption is expected to take place.

Things will not change for better until we all rise up and elect someone that knows one or two things about leadership and discipline. I still feel very comfortable to state that Nigeria would have been better off with Buhari as our president.
I find it very difficult to understand why Goodluck has been elected.

No disrespect, Goodluck is damnn too weak to take down these black wicked vultures.

Just imagine Buhari as our president today; what exactly do you think Gbenga Daniel, Adebayo Akala and Bola Tinubu would have been going thru?
Without a tough luck, iron hand, and a partially mad man in-charge Nigeria will remain a hopeless/senseless land till the end of time.

It is up to us, Nigerians to wake up, come together and make things more difficult for enemies of progress, from the top to the bottom.

From whichever angle it comes from, She shall be delivered of it and we shall all have the course to rejoice.but you are doing a good job, well done

Big B1:


No disrespect, Goodluck is damnn too weak to take down these black wicked vultures.

Just imagine Buhari as our president today; what exactly do you think Gbenga Daniel, Adebayo Akala and Bola Tinubu would have been going thru?
Without a tough luck, iron hand, and a partially mad man in-charge Nigeria will remain a hopeless/senseless land till the end of time.

It is up to us, Nigerians to wake up, come together and make things more difficult for enemies of progress, from the top to the bottom.

I disagree with you on this one. This is not a military regime where the decision of one man is supreme. In democracy, the elected members of the house make LAWS. Even if Jonathan wants to take them all on, he cannot because the bunch we have there are all corrupt. If they want to impeach him, it will take them just a day. Corruption is so deep in our psychic that it will be too hard to do away. A damage that has been done over the years cannot be undone in six months.
What I think we need is to get people of good integrity into the NASS. Gradually if we are lucky that they don't get corrupt eventually, then we will have a good chance to fight against corruption. If good laws are made and they put strong mechanism in place to enforce those laws, then we can start talking.
So right now, I don't think any former military man has anything to offer us no matter whatever guise they come with. They put us in this mess. If Buhary and co would have allowed the civilian govt to continue, maybe by now, we would have corrected some mistakes because there is no way the old guys would have continued up until now. Instead they took over because of their greed and brought us back to square one.

Poster, I commend your remark because our politicians from various part of the country have proved it to be so.

So, I hope we can start addressing it from the cultural (family) point of view.

You are right. Corruption has become a cultural thing in our society. We now see it as a normal way of life.

Culture is quite difficult to do away with especially when people benefit from it in their own way.

It seems we need a benevolent dictator who has the interest of the country at heart to change things drastically. Democracy as it is now in Nigeria is a joke.

Big B1:

Very interesting topic.

I'm very happy that most of us are now starting to wake up one by one.
Politicians are not the only corrupt group of people in this country, everybody is corrupt. Politicians may be making the most money from the sad situation our country is up against, but we must never forget that corruption is a vampire that has touched almost every human being in Nigeria. It is a rule in Nigeria that without a kickback, nobody can survive.
That is, in order for anyone in Nigeria to be successful, Corruption is expected to take place.

Things will not change for better until we all rise up and elect someone that knows one or two things about leadership and discipline. I still feel very comfortable to state that Nigeria would have been better off with Buhari as our president.
I find it very difficult to understand why Goodluck has been elected.

No disrespect, Goodluck is damnn too weak to take down these black wicked vultures.

Just imagine Buhari as our president today; what exactly do you think Gbenga Daniel, Adebayo Akala and Bola Tinubu would have been going thru?
Without a tough luck, iron hand, and a partially mad man in-charge Nigeria will remain a hopeless/senseless land till the end of time.

It is up to us, Nigerians to wake up, come together and make things more difficult for enemies of progress, from the top to the bottom.

true.

I disagree with you on this one. This is not a military regime where the decision of one man is supreme.  In democracy, the elected members of the house make LAWS. Even if Jonathan wants to take them all on, he cannot because the bunch we have there are all corrupt. If they want to impeach him, it will take them just a day. Corruption is so deep in our psychic that it will be too hard to do away. A damage that has been done over the years cannot be undone in six months. What I think we need is to get people of good integrity into the NASS. Gradually if we are lucky that they don't get corrupt eventually, then we will have a good chance to fight against corruption. If good laws are made and they put strong mechanism in place to enforce those laws, then we can start talking.
So right now, I don't think any former military man has anything to offer us no matter whatever guise they come with. They put us in this mess. If Buhary  and co would have allowed the civilian govt to continue, maybe by now, we would have corrected some mistakes because there is no way the old guys would have continued up until now. Instead they took over because of their greed and brought us back to square one.

Look, at this point it doesn't matter. If military regime or Boko Haram regime is the key to successfully deal with corruption in Nigeria, we should all welcome it. We definitely can not continue to operate in this unbearable and senseless state. Something totally unprecedented should be done.
We need a mad man with iron hand to take control of things in this country.

Without first cleaning up the mess on ground, corrupt leaders/citizens will continue to use the same democracy you're talking about to their advantage.
Imagine people like Adebayo Akala and Gbenga Daniel talking about democracy and their rights, isn't that absurd?
Look, these folks have disrespected democracy, our constitutions and have taken us for a very long ride. Democracy shouldn't be used to rescue any corrupt entity (enemies of progress) in this country.They should all be severely punished.

Again, Jonathan is a good man. But he doesn't have the courage required to deal with this black wicked vultures. They are a bit too much for Mr. President.
Buhari would have been the perfect man to lead this country at this very hectic time.

Akala went to the court house for a fashion show, to show off his wrist watch and heavily diamoned rings, while Gbenga Daniel brought his paid hopeless and lowlife supporters to the court house. Tinubu on the other hand also continues to throw out various demands. This is a complete rubbish!
These thieves are only flexing their muscle, macking and taking advantage of our weak laws as they desire, only because they completely know the capabilities of our lame president.

I can assure you with confidence that if Buhari was our president today, things would have been handled a little bit differently. Buhari isn't afraid to go for the throat at any time and any day. And they all (thieves) clearly know this fact.

Nigeria will remain the same if we continue to allow sentiment to determine our future; it is that simple.

Big B1:

Very interesting topic.

I'm very happy that most of us are now starting to wake up one by one.
Politicians are not the only corrupt group of people in this country, everybody is corrupt. Politicians may be making the most money from the sad situation our country is up against, but we must never forget that corruption is a vampire that has touched almost every human being in Nigeria. It is a rule in Nigeria that without a kickback, nobody can survive.
That is, in order for anyone in Nigeria to be successful, Corruption is expected to take place.

Things will not change for better until we all rise up and elect someone that knows one or two things about leadership and discipline. I still feel very comfortable to state that Nigeria would have been better off with Buhari as our president.
I find it very difficult to understand why Goodluck has been elected.

No disrespect, Goodluck is damnn too weak to take down these black wicked vultures.

Just imagine Buhari as our president today; what exactly do you think Gbenga Daniel, Adebayo Akala and Bola Tinubu would have been going thru?
Without a tough luck, iron hand, and a partially mad man in-charge Nigeria will remain a hopeless/senseless land till the end of time.

It is up to us, Nigerians to wake up, come together and make things more difficult for enemies of progress, from the top to the bottom.

true.

A opened a thread a few years back that says smartness in nigeria means crookedness,some dckheads were fuming but till this day, the fact remain the same that to be intelligent in nigeria means to be a top of the range bandit like bankole

Even Gaddafi was better than 98% of our leaders.

Akiika:

Ok guys, every human has the tendency to be corrupt if nobody is watching or there are no consequences for it. The disrespect for the rule of law is the issue. If the law is enforced to stupor, then people will refrain from sharp practices. That's why we need to get it from the top, if the legislative arm can promulgate good anti-corruption laws, the executive are commited to enforcing it and the judiciary is unbiased, then problem is solved. Let there be capital punishment for corrupt public officials and the society will adjust itself. There are more terrible humans here in the western world, but they are careful of what they do because they understand the law is not a respecter of anybody. When public officers are made to resign for alleged infidelity in the western world, our legislooters are been supplied with glorified LovePeddlers in Abuja constantly.

Thank you. Westerners are even more corrupt but they are mindful of THE LAW. Nobody is really civilised, it just has to do with the absence and presence of laws.

Iolo:

Our ancestors were definitely corrupt and greedy. Without both there wuda bin no slavery in the first place. Cause everybody would have stOod their ground and said No.

The white's were not taking our people by force, slaves were sold for foreign goods.

Please I beg to diasgree. This point of view is destroying many Africans' self esteem and it is even not true in the firts place. Okay, not 100% true.

Can a foetus negotiate with Donald Trump?

Can an African baby sign any contract with Bill Gates, for example without being taken advantage of?

The white man can also be wrong, he is not always right. Infact, I think there is something abt us . . .(cos we are always under attack) nau

Anyway as i was saying the white man CAME ALL THE WAY FROM ABROADI LOOKING FOR WHOM TO enslave.

We didn't go there.

We had our own govt, hierarchy, arts, SOCIETY already. They even took record of our names.

There IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY WE WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN CHEATED cos they were more enlightened.

Again, a foetus cannot negotiate with Donald Trump.

A village girl from Ijebu or Aba cannot negotiate with Naomi Campbell and not be cheated.

We have less than 10% of the fault.

The Jews have gotten over the holocaust and I think people should stop talking about slavery. Every continent has a dark historical moment but most have moved on.

If anybody calls me a slave, I would just look at the person like he or she is mad, seriously. Cos slavery ended long ago.

One question I ask is why should present living Africans fel guilty for slavery WHEN THEY DIDN'T ENSLAVE THEMSELVES. The whites packed them like sardines in a tin in the ship and starved them through the whole journey. When anyone died, they were thrown into the ocean. And when they got to wherever,they were fed minimally and used like animals. I have been to at least two slave museums in Lagos.

Even if my forefathers sold those slaves, was that also part of the contract? What were the terms and conditions? They didn't. They were outmanouerverd and manipulated with guns, singlets, silver bling bling, etc.

So why should I FEEL BAD for what I didn't do when I still have my own sins to brood over?


Abegii, the REAL PEOPLE who should f3eel bad including thier current generations have used style to shift the blame whereas THEY ENTERED THE SHIP WITH ONLY ONE AIM IN MIND: TO ENSLAVE.

Why did I type all these stories? EXTREMELY LOW Self -esteem/self confidence IS STOPPING SO MANY AFRICANS from focusing and achieving something.

Even some of our leaders have it thats why they steal so much money to compensate.

Iolo:

Our ancestors were definitely corrupt and greedy. Without both there wuda bin no slavery in the first place. Cause everybody would have stOod their ground and said No.

The white's were not taking our people by force, slaves were sold for foreign goods.

No this is wrong, the history books LIED. Blacks were FORCED to do it or their village and family would be destroyed. So they eventually gave in and went to different tribes and took their people. This caused many tribal wars.

Whites just say that to blame Africans. Look at what king leopald did to Congo. He made people go to other tribes and cut of their hands. This same thing happned in slavery. It wasn't cutting people's hands tho, it was kill them or destroy villages.

freshera:

The Jews have gotten over the holocaust and I think people should stop talking about slavery. Every continent has a dark historical moment but most have moved on.

If anybody calls me a slave, I would just look at the person like he or she is mad, seriously. Cos slavery ended long ago.

One question I ask is why should present living Africans fel guilty for slavery WHEN THEY DIDN'T ENSLAVE THEMSELVES. The whites packed them like sardines in a tin in the ship and starved them through the whole journey. When anyone died, they were thrown into the ocean. And when they got to wherever,they were fed minimally and used like animals. I have been to at least two slave museums in Lagos.

Even if my forefathers sold those slaves, was that also part of the contract? What were the terms and conditions? They didn't. They were outmanouerverd and manipulated with guns, singlets, silver bling bling, etc.

So why should I FEEL BAD for what I didn't do when I still have my own sins to brood over?


Abegii, the REAL PEOPLE who should f3eel bad including thier current generations have used style to shift the blame whereas THEY ENTERED THE SHIP WITH ONLY ONE AIM IN MIND: TO ENSLAVE.

Why did I type all these stories? EXTREMELY LOW Self -esteem/self confidence IS STOPPING SO MANY AFRICANS from focusing and achieving something.

Even some of our leaders have it thats why they steal so much money to compensate.

jews got reperations for the holocaust and they get their own country that is supported by many counries. They get to kill innoent people so they can have their own place. Namibia had a holocaust by Germany in the early 1900s and what do they get? NOTHING.

Japansese people got reparations for the concentration camps in America.

@topic

This is the very reason why I think the kind of political revolutions that swept the arab world will  not work in naija. The arabs had a common enemy and they went after it. Their is a prototype of corrupt practices of government in every establishment in this country - Local government, private companies, etc. Who should we face to get rid off? Definately not GEJ (even though I didn't vote for him). For example, going after any particular individual or group of people will not stop the police from collecting #20. Similarly, going after the police will not stop PHCN workers from giving you crazy bills? So, in my opinion, corruption has to be tackled on a top-to-bottom principle. It is going to be difficult and many of us will even kick against such an attempt by any president that is sincere enough to truly take up the challenge. But the golden question is with the people still this corrupt, how will a sincere man emerge as the president?

@gists,

Like what you said. Serious food for thought.

It was political before it became a culture.

gists: @topic

This is the very reason why I think the kind of political revolutions that swept the arab world will  not work in naija. The arabs had a common enemy and they went after it. Their is a prototype of corrupt practices of government in every establishment in this country - Local government, private companies, etc. Who should we face to get rid off? Definately not GEJ (even though I didn't vote for him). For example, going after any particular individual or group of people will not stop the police from collecting #20. Similarly, going after the police will not stop PHCN workers from giving you crazy bills? So, in my opinion, corruption has to be tackled on a top-to-bottom principle. It is going to be difficult and many of us will even kick against such an attempt by any president that is sincere enough to truly take up the challenge. But the golden question is with the people still this corrupt, how will a sincere man emerge as the president?

You have made good observation. All the corrupt practices can not be eliminated in any society but can be drastically reduced to a what's "tolerable"
That reduction can be achieved with a genuine fight against corruption starting from the top to bottom.