Oga, you don't have any point. It's people like you that said petrol import is cheaper than local refinery. Let me tell you once you have the iron ore better you produce locally and tariff any imported iron or steel product till it's more expensive than your local steel product. The extra income from the tariff can be used to improve your local production technology till it's cheaper than Chinese products. Importation kill jobs and development of local technological know how. Besides, you conserv your Forex while making your local currency stronger. Oga pls stop this your senseless argument. The word cheaper is comparative to the value of your currency against the Dollar. Let me ask you what is the value of the iron ore on the Nigerian soil ?? Why do you think it's cheaper to import steel products from china because it's cheaper to import and ship it down to Nigeria?? Listen to yourself are you even making any sense??. We just built a railway line at over $1billion dollars loan from china. That iron was imported and major reason the project was so expensive. If it was locally produced the project will be a fraction of what it was.

mrvitalis:

Some of you just wake up and start saying what you were told

China was a massively undeveloped country when they practice protectionism

Hongkong was over 50% of China GDP at a point now it's less than 5%


India has never been a protectionism economy


Are all of you missing the point I'm making?

Protect industry you have comparative advantage on and grow it import what you don't have comparative advantage on so it can be cheaper

skj1377:
Oga, you don't have any point. It's people like you that said petrol import is cheaper than local refinery. Let me tell you once you have the iron ore better you produce locally and tariff any imported iron or steel product till it's more expensive than your local steel product. The extra income from the tariff can be used to improve your local production technology till it's cheaper than Chinese products. Importation kill jobs and development of local technological know how. Besides, you conserv your Forex while making your local currency stronger. Oga pls stop this your senseless argument. The word cheaper is comparative to the value of your currency against the Dollar. Let me ask you what is the value of the iron ore on the Nigerian soil ?? Why do you think it's cheaper to import steel products from china because it's cheaper to import and ship it down to Nigeria?? Listen to yourself are you even making any sense??. We just built a railway line at over $1billion dollars loan from china. That iron was imported and major reason the project was so expensive. If it was locally produced the project will be a fraction of what it was.

Do you know China import iron ore from Australia? Yet produce steel cheaper than Australia?

Lmaooo you Think comparative advantage cares about your emotions

And there is no how you can buy crude at the international market, refine here and sale petrol below #1000 and make profit

Show me the numbers I give you 400k

mrvitalis:

Lol e go sha hard before Nigeria go develop


Let me take it slow

Tell me how is production of steel here at an expensive price going to help development

What makes u think that if investors comes in with large production, it will be more expensive?
Moreover, better quality should be more expensive.
If the steels are better, then they should be more expensive.
Just like a particular kind of wire, the one made in Nigeria is more durable and more expensive compared to the one imported from China, so Nigeriàñs should stop making the durable ones because of the cheaper ones from China?
Government can even make policies to stop importation of the supposed cheaper ones.
If there are more investors, u can't guarantee that the imported ones will be cheaper.

JagabanB:

What makes u think that if investors comes in with large production, it will be more expensive?
Moreover, better quality should be more expensive.
If the steels are better, then they should be more expensive.
Just like a particular kind of wire, the one made in Nigeria is more durable and more expensive compared to the one imported from China, so Nigeriàñs should stop making the durable ones because of the cheaper ones from China?
Government can even make policies to stop importation of the supposed cheaper ones.
If there are more investors, u can't guarantee that the imported ones will be cheaper.

Nigerian wire are expensive because the scale is too small

Bro In fact no worry

Oga , stop your argument pls your jumping around things you don't understand. First Nigeria has crude ( Energy security) why the talk of importation at International market?? Are we Togo or Mali? People like you are the rubbish in Government making funny policies! At N700 per litre your civil servants can't transport to work, hunger left right and centre . Anyways the actual cost of crude production is between $7 to $12 dollars per barrell so the international price is above $87 based on demand and supply as well as geopolitics . Mind you that international price is the price wealthy nation are ready to pay. During the COVID 19 period price dropped as low as $12 per barrell because these wealthy nations had little or no demand for crude. Kindly note the production price is still the same year in year out based on location of deposit and other factors. For many years it was hovering less than $40 per barrell. Yet production did not stop because the actual cost of production is less than $12. The difference between the cost of production and selling price is a spread that is so wide that profit is almost guaranteed once you jump into the business. Since the crude is in Nigeria and the cost of production is spread over many years and it's obviously less than $12 why do you want Nigerians to import crude at international market price? It will impoverish it's citizens . I guess am sounding familiar. I will advice you to stop reading foolish books and senseless statistical contraptions to justify failure and lack of visionary thinking. I can't keep explaining what even your government officials don't understand. You guys can continue. I remember when I spoke against floating of currency (Naira). One idiot came with similar stupid analogy. Tinubu implemented it last year and close to 15 multinational companies have exited Nigeria ever since. Guess what the floating of Naira is now a disaster in progress as costs have increased exponentially across all aspects of the economy. This has equally increased the cost of projects and developmental initiatives. More industries will soon close down at this rate because the Naira is grossly undervalued. Let's wait and see we are all in it together.etc

mrvitalis:

Do you know China import iron ore from Australia? Yet produce steel cheaper than Australia?

Lmaooo you Think comparative advantage cares about your emotions

And there is no how you can buy crude at the international market, refine here and sale petrol below #1000 and make profit

Show me the numbers I give you 400k

skj1377:
Oga , stop your argument pls your jumping around things you don't understand. First Nigeria has crude ( Energy security) why the talk of importation at International market?? Are we Togo or Mali? People like you are the rubbish in Government making funny policies! At N700 per litre your civil servants can't transport to work, hunger left right and centre . Anyways the actual cost of crude production is between $7 to $12 dollars per barrell so the international price is above $87 based on demand and supply as well as geopolitics . Mind you that international price is the price wealthy nation are ready to pay. During the COVID 19 period price dropped as low as $12 per barrell because these wealthy nations had little or no demand for crude. Kindly note the production price is still the same year in year out based on location of deposit and other factors. For many years it was hovering less than $40 per barrell. Yet production did not stop because the actual cost of production is less than $12. The difference between the cost of production and selling price is a spread that is so wide that profit is almost guaranteed once you jump into the business. Since the crude is in Nigeria and the cost of production is spread over many years and it's obviously less than $12 why do you want Nigerians to import crude at international market price? It will impoverish it's citizens . I guess am sounding familiar. I will advice you to stop reading foolish books and senseless statistical contraptions to justify failure and lack of visionary thinking. I can't keep explaining what even your government officials don't understand. You guys can continue. I remember when I spoke against floating of currency (Naira). One idiot came with similar stupid analogy. Tinubu implemented it last year and close to 15 multinational companies have exited Nigeria ever since. Guess what the floating of Naira is now a disaster in progress as costs have increased exponentially across all aspects of the economy. This has equally increased the cost of projects and developmental initiatives. More industries will soon close down at this rate because the Naira is grossly undervalued. Let's wait and see we are all in it together.etc

Bros firstly cost of production veries from country to country

Nigerian crude oil production cost was at $27 when I left the industry I think it's down to $20 now from what I hear

Even if it's a local refinery they would have to buy crude at the international price.. Why

Because Nigeria doesn't on the crude... It's a join venture between nnpc and the oil companies

The oil companies foot the bill of production and exploration, sale the crude ... Cost of production is removed and NNPC gets 55% of the profit the oil companies keep the rest

So it's impossible to reduce price

Cost of production spread over 55yrs can't be $26 or $20. Onshore cost of crude production is $6 and offshore cost is $11. But the security situation in the country is the issue. Nigeria is cheaper than almost every other location and our crude is cheaper to refine as it's sulfur content is low. Oga, you don't have a point just admit. The cost of production is determined by the foreign technical partners and is never the true cost of production but just what they want to tell you( anybody with native intelligence should understand this my point). If the technology is developed locally by Nigerians don't be surprised the true cost of production spread over 50yrs is less tha 50cents in other words not up to a dollar. Part of your problem is you accept things the way they are as normal forgetting that creativity and abstract thinking can bring about superfluous results badly needed in Nigeria of today. With the way your thinking Nigeria is doomed to fail. Better start questioning the norms. Can't keep explaining myself am tired .

mrvitalis:

Bros firstly cost of production veries from country to country

Nigerian crude oil production cost was at $27 when I left the industry I think it's down to $20 now from what I hear

Even if it's a local refinery they would have to buy crude at the international price.. Why

Because Nigeria doesn't on the crude... It's a join venture between nnpc and the oil companies

The oil companies foot the bill of production and exploration, sale the crude ... Cost of production is removed and NNPC gets 55% of the profit the oil companies keep the rest

So it's impossible to reduce price

skj1377:
Cost of production spread over 55yrs can't be $26 or $20. Onshore cost of crude production is $6 and offshore cost is $11. But the security situation in the country is the issue. Nigeria is cheaper than almost every other location and our crude is cheaper to refine as it's sulfur content is low. Oga, you don't have a point just admit. The cost of production is determined by the foreign technical partners and is never the true cost of production but just what they want to tell you( anybody with native intelligence should understand this my point). If the technology is developed locally by Nigerians don't be surprised the true cost of production spread over 50yrs is less tha 50cents in other words not up to a dollar. Part of your problem is you accept things the way they are as normal forgetting that creativity and abstract thinking can bring about superfluous results badly needed in Nigeria of today. With the way your thinking Nigeria is doomed to fail. Better start questioning the norms. Can't keep explaining myself am tired .

Wait what exactly is your solution that Nigeria should produce everything nd import northing?

Let me get you straight

Why is that almost every regime like to use this Ajaokuta steel plant to open office?
There was a functioning steel plant in warri delta state but the Nigerian factor killed it.
Just because the Ajaokuta steel plant is closer to the north, all attention was given to it.
I don't even know if that plant ever became functional?
The kind of politics of exclusion in this our society is the major factor that's making the country not to measure up with other Asian gaints.

mrvitalis:

Wait what exactly is your solution that Nigeria should produce everything nd import northing?

Let me get you straight

.

My point is simple . Nigeria should produce everything it has the raw materials available in the country it can import the production technology and machinery. Example lithium in ILorin should produce Automobile and Electronic batteries , rubber in Dela state to produce Tyres , crude oil to produce everything from engine oil to petrol , kerosene and other industrial chemicals etc. All I mentioned above can be imported into Nigeria because definitely it may be cheaper to purchase them from china due to their huge factories, economics of scale and global outreach. Those products should be heavily terrified in Nigeria till they are 50% more expensive than the locally produced alternatives. Secondly the government should use that differential from tariff to sponsor research and development into local technologies that make those products cheaper period. Export more and import less. Production locally creates jobs and gives the local currency a good purchasing power. Importation does the exact opposite even when what's imported can't be locally produced. That's my point. Japan imports 100% raw materials from abroad since they don't have any yet they are an industrial power . Why don't they think like you and say since they don't have any raw materials why don't they import from countries that have since it will be " cheaper". Oga, like I said your line of thinking is not the best for our country.

skj1377:
.

My point is simple . Nigeria should produce everything it has the raw materials available in the country it can import the production technology and machinery. Example lithium in ILorin should produce Automobile and Electronic batteries , rubber in Dela state to produce Tyres , crude oil to produce everything from engine oil to petrol , kerosene and other industrial chemicals etc. All I mentioned above can be imported into Nigeria because definitely it may be cheaper to purchase them from china due to their huge factories, economics of scale and global outreach. Those products should be heavily terrified in Nigeria till they are 50% more expensive than the locally produced alternatives. Secondly the government should use that differential from tariff to sponsor research and development into local technologies that make those products cheaper period. Export more and import less. Production locally creates jobs and gives the local currency a good purchasing power. Importation does the exact opposite even when what's imported can't be locally produced. That's my point. Japan imports 100% raw materials from abroad since they don't have any yet they are an industrial power . Why don't they think like you and say since they don't have any raw materials why don't they import from countries that have since it will be " cheaper". Oga, like I said your line of thinking is not the best for our country.

So we produce everything we "can " Produce no matter the cost of producing it?

Doesn't matter if you have comparative advantage right

Just want to get your line of thinking

mrvitalis:

So we produce everything we "can " Produce no matter the cost of producing it?

Doesn't matter if you have comparative advantage right

Just want to get your line of thinking

Once you tariff imported items 50% higher than domestically produced alternatives, you will always have comparative advantages. Don't forget people will be employed to produce those same items you wanted to import based on " comparative advantages"". On the long run those your so called advantages are disadvantages to your people, economy and overall national interest.

skj1377:


Once you tariff imported items 50% higher than domestically produced alternatives, you will always have comparative advantages. Don't forget people will be employed to produce those same items you wanted to import based on " comparative advantages"". On the long run those your so called advantages are disadvantages to your people, economy and overall national interest.

You haven't answered by question...

The problem with your policy is that you are limiting your market to market within your country..


Let's have two countries A and B same population and everything

You are saying country A should stop its import of what ever it can produce and produce them locally to meet demand and for you in this way the economy would grow right?

Is this your idea? Yes or no

Oga , Nigeria has over 200million people our market is huge . Pls we are not small like Canada 40million or Ghana 35million . Nigeria is huge with sizeable landmass . Our local market is large enough to sustain our products we can then seek other markets outside. My theory may not work in Togo, Ghana or many EU countries because they have limited resources and limited population. The books your reading are written by those people for their specific issues. They don't apply in Nigeria at all. Can't you see the failures experienced lately in Tinubu's adminstration Those textbook theories written by Harvard professors etc can't work in Nigeria period. We need to develop our system .

mrvitalis:

You haven't answered by question...

The problem with your policy is that you are limiting your market to market within your country..


Let's have two countries A and B same population and everything

You are saying country A should stop its import of what ever it can produce and produce them locally to meet demand and for you in this way the economy would grow right?

Is this your idea? Yes or no

skj1377:
Oga , Nigeria has over 200million people our market is huge . Pls we are not small like Canada 40million or Ghana 35million . Nigeria is huge with sizeable landmass . Our local market is large enough to sustain our products we can then seek other markets outside. My theory may not work in Togo, Ghana or many EU countries because they have limited resources and limited population. The books your reading are written by those people for their specific issues. They don't apply in Nigeria at all. Can't you see the failures experienced lately in Tinubu's adminstration Those textbook theories written by Harvard professors etc can't work in Nigeria period. We need to develop our system .

Lol bros I asked a question of yes or no

Bros in business a country population is not important what is important is the number of people that can afford the product

Ghana has more people that can spend $10 day than Nigeria

Canada has way more

South Africa has way more

But Nigeria's more population than all combined

Bros answer my question or state your idea

mrvitalis:

You haven't answered by question...

The problem with your policy is that you are limiting your market to market within your country..


Let's have two countries A and B same population and everything

You are saying country A should stop its import of what ever it can produce and produce them locally to meet demand and for you in this way the economy would grow right?

Is this your idea? Yes or no

Simple answer is YES.

if country A has Iron Ore, Crude oil. It must totally put a ban on imports that has products derived from these raw materials.

If at this stage you don't know we are in a mess because of our lack of productivity, then I have nothing to say.

If you kill your steel industry because you can import cheaper steel from China, you will also kill your refineries because of course you believe that you can always get cheaper products somewhere (This happened in Nigeria. From the 80's, industries collapsed because of this nonsense idealogy you are postulating). In all you debate, you have never factored in the well being of the people, impact on the currency or the economic security of the country. Do you know the indirect jobs you create by operating steel plants ? The jobs? How local industries will stabilize the economy?

I earlier asked you a question. In what field do we currently have comparative advantages on? Just name any Field.

We have allowed the importation of Steels, petroleum products into the country for decades, why haven't any local industry sprang up to take advantage of the cheaper imports? If there is cheap steel, there will also be cheap tyres, cheap tiles etc. It never ends. You just collapse your economy to satisfy some stupid urge. Is that what you want for your people? Or don't you live in Nigeria to see the poverty that is staring at us?

Dangote refinery is up and running and I'm drinking wine to celebrate this big win for the black race. Good afternoon!

Efewestern:


Simple answer is YES.

if country A has Iron Ore, Crude oil. It must totally put a ban on imports that has products derived from these raw materials.

If at this stage you don't know we are in a mess because of our lack of productivity, then I have nothing to say.

If you kill your steel industry because you can import cheaper steel from China, you will also kill your refineries because of course you believe that you can always get cheaper products somewhere (This happened in Nigeria. From the 80's, industries collapsed because of this nonsense idealogy you are postulating). In all you debate, you have never factored in the well being of the people, impact on the currency or the economic security of the country. Do you know the indirect jobs you create by operating steel plants ? The jobs? How local industries will stabilize the economy?

I earlier asked you a question. In what field do we currently have comparative advantages on? Just name any Field.

We have allowed the importation of Steels, petroleum products into the country for decades, why haven't any local industry sprang up to take advantage of the cheaper imports? If there is cheap steel, there will also be cheap tyres, cheap tiles etc. It never ends. You just collapse your economy to satisfy some stupid urge. Is that what you want for your people? Or don't you live in Nigeria to see the poverty that is staring at us?

Dangote refinery is up and running and I'm drinking wine to celebrate this big win for the black race. Good afternoon!

So since country is producing and selling to its self where would the growth come from

mrvitalis:

So since country is producing and selling to its self where would the growth come from

What growth?

Do you prefer we sell raw crude oil, use all the profit to import what can be produced locally?

Or do you prefer we sell crude, use the profit to support the expansion of local industries and save some for other critical projects?

Why do you think our currency is loosing value? We sell $100 worth of crude, we use all to finance importation. How the hell do you think we can attain any reasonable growth with that ?

Buhari burnt billions in building some nonsense rail projects when we still import fuel, steel and other things that we know too well can be produced locally. We could channel all energy in getting these critical projects running then pocket what is left. It's better than the madness we are currently operating.

Sell crude
Import everything.

Oops, why are there no jobs. Or oh, why are Nigerians poor.

Again, I'm asking you, what area do we have comparative advantages on? Can we even compete in the international market?

Efewestern:


What growth?

Do you prefer we sell raw crude oil, use all the profit to import what can be produced locally?

Or do you prefer we sell crude, use the profit to support the expansion of local industries and save some for other critical projects?

Why do you think our currency is loosing value? We sell $100 worth of crude, we use all to finance importation. How the hell do you think we can attain any reasonable growth with that ?

Buhari burnt billions in building some nonsense rail projects when we still import fuel, steel and other things that we know too well can be produced locally. We could channel all energy in getting these critical projects running then pocket what is left. It's better than the madness we are currently operating.

Sell crude
Import everything.

Oops, why are there no jobs. Or oh, why are Nigerians poor.

Again, I'm asking you, what area do we have comparative advantages on? Can we even compete in the international market?

Economic growth happens when you earn more than you export

Now my idea is this... There are things Nigeria can have comparative advantage in ( this means we can produce them cheaper than most people in the world) examples are

Ethanol, garment, leather works, ICT labor force, medical staffs, glucose industry, poultry, piggery and some others

So my idea is simple focus on this areas make the laws n framework that would make export and production of this produce possible

Produce excess export and use to pay for our import

mrvitalis:

Economic growth happens when you earn more than you export

Now my idea is this... There are things Nigeria can have comparative advantage in ( this means we can produce them cheaper than most people in the world) examples are

Ethanol, garment, leather works, ICT labor force, medical staffs, glucose industry, poultry, piggery and some others

So my idea is simple focus on this areas make the laws n framework that would make export and production of this produce possible

Produce excess export and use to pay for our import

We can invest and expand in what you highlighted while blocking more leakages from unnecessary imports.

I'm not against imports. Every nation must import to survive. I'm only against the importation of everything because we can get a cheaper alternative elsewhere.

We can pull in Nigerian industrialists and make them invest in a particularly field with the guarantee of market protection. We don't even need to burn our scarce FX. We just make the tough decisions and assist in the creation and expansion of locally viable Steel plants, refineries and Industries.

With steel and petroleum products out of our import list, there will be less pressure on the naira and so we can have enough to finance our agricultural programs and train more medical staffs while providing adequate equipments for their programs. Closing our borders to fuel or steel imports doesn't mean we shouldn't invest in other areas.

It was just some ten years ago we started manufacturing tiles/PVCs in Nigeria. The Nigerian government still allow the importation of these products with no much tarrifs. Shouldn't we be giving the industries in Enugu and Ogun a favourable edge ?

Efewestern:


We can invest and expand in what you highlighted while blocking more leakages from unnecessary imports.

I'm not against imports. Every nation must import to survive. I'm only against the importation of everything because we can get a cheaper alternative elsewhere.

We can pull in Nigerian industrialists and make them invest in a particularly field with the guarantee of market protection. We don't even need to burn our scarce FX. We just make the tough decisions and assist in the creation and expansion of locally viable Steel plants, refineries and Industries.

With steel and petroleum products out of our import list, there will be less pressure on the naira and so we can have enough to finance our agricultural programs and train more medical staffs while providing adequate equipments for their programs. Closing our borders to fuel or steel imports doesn't mean we shouldn't invest in other areas.

It was just some ten years ago we started manufacturing tiles/PVCs in Nigeria. The Nigerian government still allow the importation of these products with no much tarrifs. Shouldn't we be giving the industries in Enugu and Ogun a favourable edge ?

You problem is just want to produce
Can you produce at the price of the imported goods that's what's called comparative advantage

mrvitalis:

Nigerian wire are expensive because the scale is too small

Bro In fact no worry

It has more quality than it's imported equivalent.
And it's safer to use.

JagabanB:

It has more quality than it's imported equivalent.
And it's safer to use.

Lol why don't we export it then

Efewestern:


China produces everything cheap, should that mean all industries in the world must close down and countries import everything from China? Do you even know how much effort and resources 1st world countries pour into keeping industries alive ? Look at what Germany is doing at the moment.

Do you prefer cheaper things and a dead economy? We have every reason to resurrect our steel industries.

I'm not even arguing for this government because I've come to expect nothing less from them, but any body that can resurrect the steel industry will do us a huge favour.

Our quest for cheap steel was what crippled everything in the first place. I've discussed with people who worked in Aladja steel here in Warri and I know what it means to having things functional.

The black man is unwilling to compete, scared and always give excuses while they should remain stagnant. Abundant Iron ore, but no, let's import cheaper products from Asia

That ajaokuta will still not work. It is a money making scheme for poiticans

mrvitalis:

Lol why don't we export it then

What's the quantity of wire being produced?
U just load wires onto a boat and it set sail?
To where?
What has the companies producing them done to export them?