Capital NO.

We don't have a thinking govt. When wld Nigeria for once have a president that's intelligent. Boko Haram issue can be solved completely & easily if the govt. is thinking. Foreign boots wld only compound the problems 4 us rather solve it, if u don't know how ask Iraq & Afganistan.

No foreign boots needed

Yes we need them. The islamic terrorists and their sympathizers are twisting GEJ's arm in confronting boko haram head on. Don't be deceived by them. On the one hand, they run to these boards to run their mouth on how GEJ is incompetent and lacks the courage to confront their terrorist brethrens up north while secretly rejoicing that the terrorist are really dealing with the infidels and on the other hand, when GEJ turns around and employs viable means (in the form of US Commandos) to deal a heavy blow to the islamic terrorists, they cry wolf.

Do not be fooled by these people because they are very hypocritical and thrive under chaos, death and destruction. You expect GEJ to trust a nigerian army filled with islamists to confront their fellow islamists knowing fully well that they are 100 percent in support of the mayhem they are causing due to the nature of their religion? No, he should be smarter than that and we the sane nigerians know the nature of the beast and will highly welcome the competent US troops with experience in dealing with muslim terrorists. Do not worry about them taking ''our'' oil 'cause the ''real'' owners of the oil won't be complaining.

it's rather complex.
one may argue that, the cases of Afghanistan and Iraq may be slightly different from our case here. for example, in Iraq there was saddam, but there's no saddam here. i would expect that if their operations would be covert so to speak. the only resistance they would encounter would be boko haram itself.
but one can't assume without putting some things into consideration. the first is if their military and ours would be able to work together. also, what happens if things do get messy like Iraq 'et al'? its not totally impossible.
my conclusion is that, they shouldn't be in a hurry. let the Nigerian military fail completely first, then we would know we have no choice.

Essay from Ghanaweb


The Black Race: A Ghanaian Perspective

http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/artikel.php?ID=223397


" The Black race has retrogressed to the point of dependency with little to no creativity to show. Africans cannot solve their own conflicts without getting their former colonial masters involved! Africans cannot feed their own children without asking the White man for aide. Africans cannot develop their respective countries without going to the White man to borrow. It seems that Africans cannot even develop Africa without the permission from the White man. And the question is; why? What sets the Black man apart from the White man? Aren’t both of them human beings? Or, is one higher than the other?"

IbroSaunks:

my conclusion is that, they shouldn't be in a hurry. let the Nigerian military fail completely first, then we would know we have no choice.

When do you decide that our military has failed? We have been shipping them, our military, to the north since Last year. In that same period, the problems have escalated, and hundreds, including politicians have lost their lives. Many live in fear, even Governors are in panic, and acting on their cowardice. When do you make this decision to call for help? After another year and 1000 or more lives? After the problem moves to the south? Do we wait till, some dingbat decides to hit a major like MMA before we cry out for help? After we start hearing of reports that our policemen have switched sides for money or favors? When?

We may not need military intervention but we do need external help on this issue. Our intelligence gathering sucks. Our SSS is incompetent. Even information is served em on the platter of gold, they have succeeded, overwhelmingly, in bungling those as well. I think we need help, and if it comes in this form, why not?

What are 9ja  troops doing in Sierra Leone instead of the North?

Disclosure, I don't know the time frame of the vid, or in fact if they are from Nairaland.


Nigerian Soldiers Beat and Shoot Rebels in Sierra Leone
*Graphic* Interrogations carried out the medieval way.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=61f_1320822191

Kobojunkie:

When do you decide that our military has failed? We have been shipping them, our military, to the north since Last year. In that same period, the problems have escalated, and hundreds, including politicians have lost their lives. Many live in fear, even Governors are in panic, and acting on their cowardice. When do you make this decision to call for help? After another year and 1000 or more lives? After the problem moves to the south? Do we wait till, some dingbat decides to hit a major like MMA before we cry out for help? After we start hearing of reports that our policemen have switched sides for money or favors? When?

We may not need military intervention but we do need external help on this issue. Our intelligence gathering sucks. Our SSS is incompetent. Even information is served em on the platter of gold, they have succeeded, overwhelmingly, in bungling those as well. I think we need help, and if it comes in this form, why not?

in my opinion, there is a difference between failing and failing completely. one of my favorite bands coldplay sang :"just because im losing, doesn't mean im lost, " once. the problem now is deciding when we have lost it. now the reason i said "fail completely" is because to some extent, our military is still trying to curtail the issue. not that they are making good effort, but they are trying to get things under control. also, foreign military doesn't necessarily mean end of our problems.
now my suggestion on how to access when we may require help is by using a timeline. if by a particular time they still aren't on top of it then brig them in. the fact remains that even if the foreign peeps come, it doesn't mean some people won't lose their lives. this is what i think.

Our Military has been "trying" to curtail violence in this region since the early 2000s. In that period, over 16,000 lives have been lost. I know the cold play song you speak of, and it is a cool song, but I don't think that song suggest you wait until you actually fail/loose before admitting you need help.

This is National security, not some personal endurance competition. When it comes to security of a nation, once Governor is unable to control a situation, it is recorded as a failure. Do you know the difference between those success, and failure? Those who we know as successes today realized early that they lacked the skills necessary for accomplishing particular tasks, and so IMMEDIATELY searched out others who could come in to help in those area. This worked out for them as they were able to learn better skills, and while still get the job done at the same time. The failures we read of knew from the get go they did not have what was needed to tackle the particular tasks/issues, but rather than seek out help immediately, they chose to keep throwing stones and rocks at the problem in hopes that it would fix itself somehow. In the end, they spent months, years, recording losses, and failures, and nothing was ever really accomplished.

So, my question to you, after 12 years of the same, how many more lives are we willing to loose to this? How many more gallons of blood do we need to spill on our streets before we realize we do not now have the skills to counter  this? We are not technically at war, in this nation . . . we are not Afghanistan or Iraq but we have lost an equivalent number of lives in this period, to senseless violence (16,000) lives and more dropping like flies each year. How many more months do we need to go at this before we accept we don't have what it takes yet?

Bandit C.:

Yes we need them. The islamic terrorists and their sympathizers are twisting GEJ's arm in confronting boko haram head on. Don't be deceived by them. On the one hand, they run to these boards to run their mouth on how GEJ is incompetent and lacks the courage to confront their terrorist brethrens up north while secretly rejoicing that the terrorist are really dealing with the infidels and on the other hand, when GEJ turns around and employs viable means (in the form of US Commandos) to deal a heavy blow to the islamic terrorists, they cry wolf.

Do not be fooled by these people because they are very hypocritical and thrive under chaos, death and destruction. You expect GEJ to trust a nigerian army filled with islamists to confront their fellow islamists knowing fully well that they are 100 percent in support of the mayhem they are causing due to the nature of their religion? No, he should be smarter than that and we the sane nigerians know the nature of the beast and will highly welcome the competent US troops with experience in dealing with muslim terrorists. Do not worry about them taking ''our'' oil 'cause the ''real'' owners of the oil won't be complaining.

Word.

I have quite enjoyed haka_nai's inputs. They've been quite thoughtful and balanced, we need more of such contributions on NL. Nice.

In my opinion, we have done everything our wretched security services are capable of. I don't expect our "roger" demanding, road block happy police force to save me from a boko haram that is getting help from the most sophisticated and powerful terrorist network on Earth, al qaeda.
I believes that those arguing that our army can save us, are engaged in even bigger self deception (in some cases, deliberately for filthy gain). About half of our entire army is currently stationed in Borno and Bauchi, that also includes our most sophisticated fighting force, the JTF. With such lockdown, boko haram is still sophisticated enough to carry out bloody rampages.

There is only a single conclusion to be drawn from the above and that's simply, we do not have the local werewithal to tackle al qaeda, because that is really the foe that is arrayed against our dear country. It doesn't help to make emotional calls right now, all we need is a solution, failing that, a layout of immense force and might of the sort that would intimidate even Lucifer; we cannot muster such a whirlwind, but our US allies can. So why not call them in?

Even if it is argued that summoning immense force should be a last ditch plan, and we should give policing and intelligence gathering the best shot; there is no better coach for our intelligence and police services than the US. To argue from a wholly emotional standpoint, that our services possess the sophistry to tackle al qaeda's evil guile will be suicidally foolish.

Call in the US.

@kobojunkie. 12years?? are u talking about boko haram or sectarian violence? if its sectarian, the cia have been here a while watching, and all they do is make predictions. they are not going to come here to stop sectarian violence. all they would do is eliminate boko if they are convinced beyond doubt that it'll affect them.
what we need to realise is that our future is solely in our hands. im not against them coming, but don't think we would leave it all to them and they would solve it all, that's being delusional.
in the end ill agree with kobojunkie, but don't be too sure they can help us.

IbroSaunks:

@kobojunkie. 12years?? are u talking about boko haram or sectarian violence? if its sectarian, the cia have been here a while watching, and all they do is make predictions. they are not going to come here to stop sectarian violence. all they would do is eliminate boko if they are convinced beyond doubt that it'll affect them.

I say 12 years, because I am having a hard time separating the two here. BokoHaram, the way I see it, did not come out of no where overnight. What the group is agitating for is is what the many rioters who have killed thousands over the years have somewhat been wanting. So, I kind of feel this is the same group, only now more organized.

IbroSaunks:

what we need to realise is that our future is solely in our hands. im not against them coming, but don't think we would leave it all to them and they would solve it all, that's being delusional.
in the end ill agree with kobojunkie, but don't be too sure they can help us.

Um . . . I don't believe this can work if we leave it all to them. That is just rubbish . . . again, success stories include of people being involved in every step of their lives, even if they have others coming in to do particular tasks for them. You would not let a contractor in to remodel your house without making sure you follow each step of the way to ensure the work is done right and your property is not trashed during the process. It's the same thing here. We should not see them as BOY-BOYS coming in to make everything good. We need to work hand-in-hand, whether this be training or some other form of help being given us here.

I said this before and I knew it from the beginning of boko haram saga that this will be the end. CIA creates terrorism all over the world. The best people they use are the dissatisfied groups in every nations  then they will move in all in the name of fighting terror. Wake up nigerians

@kobojunkie umm, now it gets complicated.see in my opinion, there's a difference. the ones in jos and all are about muslim-christian conflicts. boko is about hatred for western education, which is why the u.s. is even interested in the first place.
personally, i don't think the u.s. can end it all like that. in jos, we see that it subsides after a while. what if the foreign peeps come, and reduce it , and leave, and it resurfaces ? what happens?
there's a reason why they have just being watching. when jos was hot, they watched. they will only come if they are convinced it'll affect them, and thinking about it now, they may mess things up.

I agree Nigeria needs them more than ever before!

IbroSaunks:

@kobojunkie umm, now it gets complicated.see in my opinion, there's a difference. the ones in jos and all are about muslim-christian conflicts. boko is about hatred for western education, which is why the u.s. is even interested in the first place.
personally, i don't think the u.s. can end it all like that. in jos, we see that it subsides after a while. what if the foreign peeps come, and reduce it , and leave, and it resurfaces ? what happens?
there's a reason why they have just being watching. when jos was hot, they watched. they will only come if they are convinced it'll affect them, and thinking about it now, they may mess things up.

Wrong. The US is interested because of al qaeda.

That considered, it is best we call them in and work with them in a way that they can be managed, than wait for them to invite themselves in. With al qaeda's involvement the day they come in uninvited is just a step away. It will take only a single US death or injury; that American casualty might even be a Nigerian green card holder, an American is an American.

the thing is, if its a problem we have had for 12 years, those guys sef would think twice before they step in cos,

alqaeda too hates western education. see the thing is, even all the talk about the connections, haven't been confirmed. and u.s. citizens died in the u.s. tragedy, but they won't dive in like that, there's a reason they are just watching ,

IbroSaunks:

@kobojunkie umm, now it gets complicated.see in my opinion, there's a difference. the ones in jos and all are about muslim-christian conflicts. boko is about hatred for western education, which is why the u.s. is even interested in the first place.

I think you have it upside down to an extent. From before the 1960's, majority of the schools in the North had been Almajiri/muslim schools and not western-type schools. I remember going on exchange to the North and finding myself in the middle of a community with so many muslim schools and just one western school. This situation has not changed much in the last 2 decades.

The killings of christians, and southerners in the north, and the burning of schools, that we witnessed pre-Boko Haram formerly showing up in 2009, is to me, no different from what we have today. I feel this is one of the extremist groups coming out to formerly reject western education and declare that it wants Nigeria to be turned into some islamic nation. In my opinion, the same, if not one of the many groups responsible for the killings in the past, is here finally organized and declared it's intent to all, and possibly this may have been as a result of their receiving funding from some viable source. Could this have been prevented, I think so, but I think at this point, 2 years into BokoHaram, it's time we get rid of this before it goes any further.

And your suggestion that the US is interested because these groups are against western education is bubble-brained, at best. That hate did not start today so why would the US suddenly go after these folks for that when here are 100's of regions around the earth where western education is rejected to a possible larger extent?

IbroSaunks:

personally, i don't think the u.s. can end it all like that. in jos, we see that it subsides after a while. what if the foreign peeps come, and reduce it , and leave, and it resurfaces ? what happens?

Again, depends on what you expect the US to come do here for you. I can guarantee you that they are not magicians and it is still up to the Nigerian government to decide whether this mission will be a success, or failure.

We have brought the US, along with so many other groups, in on numerous occassions, to train our police force, and our army. And you will note that not much has changed even with the many man hours put in. Why? because our Government is grossly incompetent and unwilling to play the part it has to to ensure the success of these missions.

IbroSaunks:

there's a reason why they have just being watching. when jos was hot, they watched. they will only come if they are convinced it'll affect them, and thinking about it now, they may mess things up.

The US is not Nigerian police. When there are riots in the US, do they sit back waiting for others who are watching to come do something? NO, they equip their forces beforehand . . . train them before hand on how to manage such situations, and so far that has greatly helped quell violence during riots.

May I make a suggestion at this point. I believe we need to stop pretending we can read the minds of the americans, cause honestly we don't have mind reading abilities and we are not even able to read the minds of our own government to begin with. The Americans have been in Nigeria training the police probably since you were born. Even Yar adua did not reject their coming in during his term in office. Suggesting that the Americans did not interfere during the Jos crisis because it did not affect them is ludicrous. Why would the country get into something THEY WERE NOT EVEN INVITED to HELP with?? Gosh!!! we need to do away with these bubble-brained postulating and focus on what we really know.

IbroSaunks:

alqaeda too hates western education. see the thing is, even all the talk about the connections, haven't been confirmed. and u.s. citizens died in the u.s. tragedy, but they won't dive in like that, there's a reason they are just watching ,

It is only a matter of time before the US drop their call card, they have shown increased restlessness with the boko haram situation, to the extent that their top military commanders have made very public statements; that is far from a normal situation.
US drones and special forces operate everywhere al qaeda has a foothold, and they don't care how powerful the host country is either.
Just look at the way the launch attacks deep into Pakistan on almost a daily basis, yet Pakistan is a nuclear power. We certainly don't need that sort of embarrassment and hostile interaction with a World power in addition to boko haram fuckry.

Its best for us to work with them, since our interests coincide; that way, we can channel their actions to our mutual benefit. If we don't work with them, they will simply do what they want without consultation; thats how they deal with Pakistan which is tens of times more militarily powerful than Nigeria.

ummm guys,, its not that simple. it gets complex. they can't just "waltz" in and out as they please. its has to be out of hand before they even try.

^^^^ I don't believe it is complex at all. Unless you are going to tell us that a bunch of extremist numbskulls have now succeed in taking over this nation . . . wait a minute . . . don't answer that cause I just remember this is Nigeria.

The BokoHaram affects investor confidence, growth, development in all parts of the country, security and our reputation as a society. The longer we let this drag on, the more impact this will have on our growth. We endured MEND for the years before and at the end PAID these terrorists just so we can get on with other things. This particular group, it does not seem we are able to pay off. Unless we tackle this headon, we will probably continue this back and forth with BokoHaram until long after 2015.

umm, how are u sure it won't get as bad as Afghanistan or Pakistan.

IbroSaunks:

umm, how are u sure it won't get as bad as Afghanistan or Pakistan.

I don't understand the question? Are you asking me why extremism got bad in Afghanistan before the war? Are you asking why extremism got bad in Pakistan  even before the war in neighboring Afghanistan? Or are you asking me why it seems it is worse there in both as a result of the war in afghanistan?

, America has been fighting alqaeda for as long as I can remember. they have taken the war to different turfs. how has it be en so far? is alqaeda dead? don't get me wrong, they can come, but they can't waltz in. ,
whatever sha, let them come!

^^ I am not gonna help you rack up conspiracy-theory points here. I suggest you visit the Nigerian papers from the beginning of the year 2000 to this date, on the islamic linked riots in the north and how far the situation has escalated. believe, more than anything, people need to understand the magnitude of the problem as of today, and the possible end if we do not tackle it now. The way I see it, we are headed where Pakistan is today . . with extremists taking over parts of the country and the country being ruled on the one side by extremists and on the other, an incapable FG.

Sure, we do not need to bring the US in particular(the level of paranoia, mostly based on imagined circumstances, exhibited on the thought of this alone makes me wonder if the US  should probably let another country take this), if it is just that country we are afraid of, but we do need help, and it has to come from somewhere outside of Nigeria since our forces/sss etc have shown they are unable to handle this crisis.

I get u. ok, here's my conviction. since iv been responding based on the thread title, Ill just say that I don't want "boots" on our soil. they can give us intelligence and Intel experts but no military personnel, no guns, no firepower. only then, would it be aite .

IbroSaunks:

I get u. ok, here's my conviction. since iv been responding based on the thread title, Ill just say that I don't want "boots" on our soil. they can give us intelligence and Intel experts but no military personnel, no guns, no firepower. only then, would it be aite .

Well, again, like the @OP tried to make you understand. You have had boots, intel, intel experts on ground for decades now. What have you done with it so far?? If you are capable, why have you not solved this and other problems to date? Why aren't you more interested in learning why your government has not been able to use all that to deal with the situation, if at all, you are even interested in a solution to this. Again, consult the many reports out there on this and start asking the right questions.

holdup! I am a Nigerian, of course I care. but do u think the problem since has been inadequate military power? the boko folks, do they have more guns and soldiers than the jtf? hell no! and since they have been gathering Intel, has the Intel been for us?no, its been for them. what I'm saying is, they need to start gathering for us. the sss and the cia can work together, but not the jtf and the American army or NATO soldiers, NO!

Personally i dont trust foreign aid,i dnt believe they are coming to do us a favour,these people always have their own selfish interest at heart.We should be a lot wiser than this by now.