dare2think:

Nice one alethea,

Well, I am the fifth member of the trinity,

Where is the falsehood in that?


(If being an extra member of the "Trinity", a three member state, is not falsehood, I really wonder what is)

If God is the three in one and the same God is in you then have you not been joined to Christ? "Many a times we lose focuss on the essence of the message because we want to scrutinise every statement based on the preconcieved ideas we have. If the light in us be darkness then indeed we are in great darkness. Just because you can see in the dark doesnt mean that there is no light or that light is not necesary. Rather than making it your personal business to fight for God and go about criticising someone else why not start preaching yourself unto this world. This is the nowarday decay and rot that is in the word, we spend so much time trying to criticise others, so much time that if we are to compare it to the time we spend trying to preach the gospel we find ourselves way outdone.

wetu:

Dr Owuor has a message. And that message is repentance and holiness. In one teaching he asks: "Since when does the devil send prophets to preach repentance and holiness?"

People will say he is a false prophet because of the miracles that happen during his meetings. I don't want to say the miracles that he performs because he doesn't do those dancing with the hand techniques of TB Joshua and Uebert Angel. He preaches and prays and the glory of the Lord descends: The blind see, the lame walk, the deaf hear and the sick are healed. The Kingdom of God is within you!

They don't come back next week to testify, No! they testify on the spot. One boy could not walk all his life and at this meeting he says: "I heard my heart telling me, 'Today you have walked'"

People got used to false prophets and fake miracles that they will easily reject a true prophet as well.

Just because you think something is right doesnt make it right WETU. Preconcieved ideas are often the breeding ground for misconceptions. Just because Jesus did in this way, he shall do it the same way is a bad approach to interpreting the Bible.
Whether a man testifies on the spot or goes home and testifies after a week doesnt do anything in proving that the miracle is from God. Its imaterial!!!

The same Jesus who healed the lame man by the pool of Bethesda by just the words of John 14:12 "Jesus said unto him, Rise, take up your bed, and walk" is the same Jesus who when he met the 10 leppers told them:
(Luke 17:15) "And one of them, WHEN HE SAW HE WAS HEALED, TURNED BACK, and with a loud voice glorified God, "

You need to be carefull WETU, otherwise you will unknowingly be used of the devil in criticising true man of God. I dont see anything wrong with testifying there and then when ministered to and i certainly don't see anything wrong with testifying afterwards, it only goes to explain how God's healing is not temporary.

If you go into the word looking for a theological explanation, you will find it, if you go into the word looking for a criticism based analysis, you will find it. If you go there looking for a thesis, you will find it. Go for the word and if you are in good books with God ask him and not bank on your personal opinion. Ask God first!

I perfectly agree with you @pastor James. Why do people have to stand up and criticize people who are doing GODS work when they themselves arent doing anything.

Search yourseves people of God when you say something, remember the devil does not have a mouth he will use your mouth and mind and bring a curse to your doorstep

If this man of God is used of the devil and he delivers people from sickness, poverty and sin, i being a prime example then tell you what man I love whatever power he is using because that set me free from the DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!

Its so disturbing to find people of the kingdom trying to defend their church by criticing another one, you missing the real enemy and that shows your level of immaturity. Church is for immature kids and the kingdom is for the mature. chose your stand man. Just because your man of God is usde of Ggod does not make everyone else a satanist. that spiritual myopia, Remember Miriam a prophetess of God got the brunt of His anger by trying to turn against his anointed servant Moses, just search yourself man

I pray that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened and you see beyond your current religious boarders

Pst James,

I'm sorry but What I decide to make my personal business is my business. (why else are you minding my business then)

Someone "allegedly" claim to be the forth trinity, am I to just digest that fallacy just because he is a man of God?

What the h.ell does that mean anyway? "man of God"

Did Jesus not criticise the Pharisees for their hypocritical ways?

Are we to just digest any ridiculous claims made by men and not use our heads to discern the authenticity of such claims.

The "decay" you speak of is more perpetrated by people who revel in titular positions and those who ignore their fallacy.

My deference is to GOd only and not man.

(by the way, are you not doing the same you accuse me of? Criticising my position on the matter.)

@ epikaizo

Why are people always criticising people who criticise ?


, , ,.,,,,,, in the end  all parties are still criticising. So what makes one critique more or Less important than the other ?

Pstr James:

Apostle Paul says, in (Phillipians 4:13) "I CAN DO all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."

Context is important. . ."cut and join" exegesis will not cut it at all. Surely they taught you that in Bible school "pastor".

Here are the verses you left out:

Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.  (Php 4:11-15)

As the old joke of the guy who decides to pick out two key verses in the Bible to live by and ends up with "And Judas went and hanged himself" and "Go thou and do likewise" shows; deceived men can make isolated bible verses mean almost anything they want it to mean.

Pstr James:

If God is the three in one and the same God is in you then have you not been joined to Christ?

^What exactly does the conditional "If" in this statement indicate? While the Bible is clear that believers are joined to Christ, does it teach that they are God? What Bible verse says: "God is the three in one"? Do you find anywhere in scripture, such language used to describe God? Aren't these examples of preconceived notions that you charge someone else with holding:

Pstr James:

Preconcieved ideas are often the breeding ground for misconceptions.

wetu:


People got used to false prophets and fake miracles that they will easily reject a true prophet as well.

I don't fight for God, God fights for himself and in his spare time sends his angels, the likes of Michael.  But for the benefit of those who lay claims against the almighty God, BE YE WARNED!!! Remember how the Bible talks of Prophet Elijah from the time he wakes up up to every detail of even the tying of his shoe laces up to the extent that he even though he was the only prophet left but what dd God have to say about it?
1 KINGS 1
14And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
18Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

God had preserved 7000 for himself. We don't have a God who runs out of ideas, resources or prophets. Our God reserved for himsef 7000 can not in this day run out of prophets to the extent of having only one.
A look at the prophets from the Bible will easily tell you of how different they were according to their calling but because they are accepted no one critics them. Lord have mercy on critics in trying to put your name and the work of your spirit to desrepute.

YOU NEED TO WATCH THE TESTIMONY "I WENT TO HEAVEN." IT TEACHES ON HOLINESS.

It is not my business to say whether Dr David Owuor is a man of God or not or any other person but all i know is Prophet Angel is a man of God, so is prophet T.B Joshua. What you think does not change his prophetic calling. You talk of Prophet Angel changing his name and  Prophet T.B Joshua changing his name, do you read your bible UPSIDE DOWN OR WHAT?

How many man from the Bible changed their names upon an encounter with God.
Abraham from Abram
Israel from Jacob
Paul from Saul

epikaizo:

I perfectly agree with you @pastor James. Why do people have to stand up and criticize people who are doing GODS work when they themselves arent doing anything.

Search yourseves people of God when you say something, remember the devil does not have a mouth he will use your mouth and mind and bring a curse to your doorstep

If this man of God is used of the devil and he delivers people from sickness, poverty and sin, i being a prime example then tell you what man I love whatever power he is using because that set me free from the DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!

Its so disturbing to find people of the kingdom trying to defend their church by criticing another one, you missing the real enemy and that shows your level of immaturity. Church is for immature kids and the kingdom is for the mature. chose your stand man. Just because your man of God is usde of Ggod does not make everyone else a satanist. that spiritual myopia, Remember Miriam a prophetess of God got the brunt of His anger by trying to turn against his anointed servant Moses, just search yourself man

I pray that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened and you see beyond your current religious boarders

You've said the truth, God bless you.

, am really shocked that some of us are still going on fighting Gods wars when He can fight for Himself. There is a contextual meaning to any sentence or phrase and unless you take avery word or phrase in context you risk flying off the handle with a half truth. Seek to understand before you open your mouth

The time you spend critising the man of God if used in attacking the devil this kingdom will be a lot different. Dont work for the devil thats suicidal if

@epikaizo

Since we are discussing contextual meanings, is it ok If I put a real life scenario to you?


What would you do if a man of God told you that GOd had just instructed him to tell his congregation , of which you are a part of, to commit mass suicide?

Before you think "why ask me such a st.upid question" ,  Pls grace me with a reply

Thanks

john 14: 20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."
              16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

Colosians 2:9 "9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. "

Bible school will give you confidence to go onto the pullpit, it will not give you authority against the devil.  Jesus only gave quoted scriptures when confronted by the devil. He did not quote the whole Bible.  We only quote that which is necessary.

aletheia:

Context is important. . ."cut and join" exegesis will not cut it at all. Surely they taught you that in Bible school "pastor".

Here are the verses you left out:

Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.  (Php 4:11-15)

As the old joke of the guy who decides to pick out two key verses in the Bible to live by and ends up with "And Judas went and hanged himself" and "Go thou and do likewise" shows; deceived men can make isolated bible verses mean almost anything they want it to mean.
^What exactly does the conditional "If" in this statement indicate? While the Bible is clear that believers are joined to Christ, does it teach that they are God? What Bible verse says: "God is the three in one"? Do you find anywhere in scripture, such language used to describe God? Aren't these examples of preconceived notions that you charge someone else with holding:

What kind of Pastor is Pastor James? He is very angry. He is making inferences on my statements. I posted so that you can judge for yourself, not so that you can put words in my mouth, "pastor".

Did Paul go around calling himself Apostle Paul? Did Peter call him Apostle Paul? No He said "Our beloved brother Paul". The same Paul who spent three years warning the church of Ephesus day and night about false prophets.

And what makes you think I do not preach the gospel to those around me? Nairaland is not a place to preach, it's a battleground for truth.

I guess Elijah was wasting time on Mount Carmel, not being "loving" killing the false prophets, perhaps he should have used that time to preach. Nay, "pastor", we ought to obey God rather than men.

It is not my business to say whether Dr David Owuor is a man of God or not or any other person but all i know is Prophet Angel is a man of God, so is prophet T.B Joshua. What you think does not change his prophetic calling. You talk of Prophet Angel changing his name and Prophet T.B Joshua changing his name, do you read your bible UPSIDE DOWN OR WHAT?

Yes, "Pastor" James. That is all you know, that's exactly why you registered to come and defend him. Same with epikaizo. I would love to know if you are "related" to one another or some other existing users on NL.

DEVIL LIKE IT OR NOT. FALSE PROPHETS WILL BE EXPOSED!
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

wetu:

Yes, "Pastor" James. That is all you know, that's exactly why you registered to come and defend him. Same with epikaizo. I would love to know if you are "related" to one another or some other existing users on NL.

DEVIL LIKE IT OR NOT. FALSE PROPHETS WILL BE EXPOSED!
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Its true to say that i registered to respond to this post just now. I did it not because i wanted to defend prophet Uebert Angel or Prophet T.B Joshua. I did it because when you posted it you had an intended audience in mind so I'm simply giving them the side you fail to see so that they don't go home with the bias based on what you have watched on tv and concluded whilst seated on your sofa. I don't have a reason to argue and probably wouldnt have registered if you had not posted this negative post which is wrong. What i know is that God whose faithfullness is forever will make you see one day the truth and you will look back at all those you have caused to transgress because of your posts and the bad words you have spoken. On this day may you remember to correct it with the same enthusiasm as you have criticised bearing in mind that a lie gets to the finish line before the truth even gets a chance to tie its shoelaces

Pstr James:

We only quote that which is necessary.

But of course, "pastor" James, you only quote that which you can twist to support your heresies.

aletheia:

. . .deceived men can make isolated bible verses mean almost anything they want it to mean.

---

wetu:

Nairaland is not a place to preach, it's a battleground for truth.

+1

wetu:

I would love to know if you are "related" to one another or some other existing users on NL.

^Pstr James = Agness Tavengwa (I think), probably not related to existing users. But why "Pstr James"?

aletheia:

^Pstr James = Agness Tavengwa (I think), probably not related to existing users. But why "Pstr James"?

I dont need to analyse the discrepancy between your name and your profile name to convince you unless if i am a journalist or detective. I wont even bother explaining this because it's not meant for you and i know you wont understand anyway. Think the way you want, its ok.

wetu:

Did Paul go around calling himself Apostle Paul?
I guess Elijah was wasting time on Mount Carmel, not being "loving" killing the false prophets, perhaps he should have used that time to preach. Nay, "pastor", we ought to obey God rather than men.

Paul did call himself an apostle, n if he ddnt the Bible did call him such

1 CORINTHIANS 1:"Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
Sosthenes

ROMANS 1:1 "1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 TIMOTHY 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,"

2 CORINTHIANS 11

Elija did destroy the prophets of baal, he did not log on to criticize them. These were the prophets of baal that he destroyed not Prophets of God. Why not just do the same since you are the one who brought Elijah up, if you are sure he is a false prophet then do what elijah did and save us all this headache.
What we dont know, we call names and what we think we know, we want to destroy.

What we dont know, we call names and what we think we know, we want to destroy.

You a follower of TB Joshua for sure! I understand were you are coming from.

Paul was called to be an apostle. He was not called "Apostle" or "Apostle Paul".

The Spirit of Elijah is alive and well in the Body of Christ:
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

aletheia:

Pstr James = Agness Tavengwa (I think), probably not related to existing users. But why "Pstr James"?

Pstr James:

I dont need to analyse the discrepancy between your name and your profile name to convince you unless if i am a journalist or detective.

Touched a nerve there now, did I?  

What relationship does "Agness Tavengwa" bear to "Pstr James". Why do you a woman seek to pass yourself off as a male (for that is the subliminal impression created by a name such as James)? And how are you a "pastor"?

By their fruits you shall know them
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

dare2think:

What would you do if a man of God told you that GOd had just instructed him to tell his congregation , of which you are a part of, to commit mass suicide?Before you think "why ask me such a st.upid question" ,  Pls grace me with a reply

If I may come in. If a pastor ask for such things contrary to the Word or someones conviction.such a member should simply reject , and if there need be ,leave . that's what the bible says.

2 John 1:10-11
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

When GOD is using HIS prophet, the devil will raise his agents to pollute and corrupt the mind of people against the prophet of GOD. When your mind is polluted and corrupted against that prophet of GOD, nothing from that prophet of GOD will ever get to you.
The preaching of the cross is foolishness. 1Corintians 1:18" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God".

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Prophet Uebert Angel, is a true man of God. Through out the years I have followed this man. Yes I belong to his church. I was present when he prophesied about the death of head of states. I was there when he prophesied about natural disasters. I was there when he prophesied to me. I have seen countless people receiving thief healing through this man. HIV aids, cancer all infirmities, I have seen them bowing down to the name of Jesus through this man. You ask me, is he a false prophet, my answer is NO. I can only encourage you to attend only one service, then you can make your own conclusion.

^^^
ogachukwu, where are you based? Your name is very Nigerian o

Ogachukwu:

Prophet Uebert Angel, is a true man of God. Through out the years I have followed this man. Yes I belong to his church. I was present when he prophesied about the death of head of states. I was there when he prophesied about natural disasters. I was there when he prophesied to me. I have seen countless people receiving thief healing through this man. HIV aids, cancer all infirmities, I have seen them bowing down to the name of Jesus through this man. You ask me, is he a false prophet, my answer is NO. I can only encourage you to attend only one service, then you can make your own conclusion.

Nay, Why would I want to sit in his church after seeing him performing and telling stories about angels. I don't want to see angels. Jesus didn't tell me to talk to angels. He told me He will send the Holy Spirit.

ogoamaka99:

When GOD is using HIS prophet, the devil will raise his agents to pollute and corrupt the mind of people against the prophet of GOD. When your mind is polluted and corrupted against that prophet of GOD, nothing from that prophet of GOD will ever get to you.
The preaching of the cross is foolishness. 1Corintians 1:18" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God".

You are quoting the Bible dear, I agree with the Bible 100%. This man doesn't preach the cross.

Uebert Angel: Be comfortable with what you have but don't be content.

That is not the cross! Carrying your cross means being comfortable, happy and content with what you have. If you are not content, you are covetous, an enemy of the cross. Don't just assume anyone who is "preaching" is preaching the cross.

The gospel is simple, people:
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


Just because someone carries a Bible doesn't mean he preaches it. Read what I quoted from the "Angels" and compare it to what your Bible says,

Thank you.

wetu:

Nay, Why would I want to sit in his church after seeing him performing and telling stories about angels. I don't want to see angels. Jesus didn't tell me to talk to angels. He told me He will send the Holy Spirit.

You are absolutely right but he also spoke about the ministry of Angels for the saints through the apostle paul
Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent
forth to minister to them who shall be
heirs of salvation?

wetu:

Nay, Why would I want to sit in his church after seeing him performing and telling stories about angels. I don't want to see angels. Jesus didn't tell me to talk to angels. He told me He will send the Holy Spirit.

You are absolutely right but he also spoke about the ministry of Angels for the saints through the apostle paul
Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent
forth to minister to them who shall be
heirs of salvation?

@Wetu you need to have the light of the gospel shine through you because the darkness in you is great. I guess everybody bar you in your  family is a juju man so all the devil has done is corrupt your mind to see satanism and wrongs  in everything and everybody.  "to the impure all things are impure"

The argument you pitch is baseless as you are quoting  all statements out of context and run ttangential to the actual meaning. It shows how shallow the basis of your argument is. If you were arguing with the intention of learning then you would have learnt one or two things but just because your arguments are based on religion rather than salvation your views are seriously flawed and your reasoning warped. To say angels should not be mentioned is absurd. Just before the shipwreck an angel of the Lord appeared to Paul and the fact that Paul wrote about it means angels can be talked about. You can talk of angels but you cannot worship them. If they minister to you then you can talk to and about them,

You don't know prophecy man of God that's why you claim all prophets to be false. If you want to prove that the prophecy is from God these may help you
1. Prophecy confirms what the spirit may normally have said to you already.
2. Reveals the desires of your heart which is what God wants to give you.
3.any prophecy that has a negative effect will always be guaranteed a solution as God reveals inorder to redeem.
4. All prophecy is done in line with scriptures

wetu:

Nay, Why would I want to sit in his church after seeing him performing and telling stories about angels. I don't want to see angels. Jesus didn't tell me to talk to angels. He told me He will send the Holy Spirit.

What is wrong with seeing angels? . Any real prophets sees angels , some even see demons. A healing minister or prophet has angels assigned to him for that special ministry and they do see them. Moses did,paul did ,even Jesus did too.

Mark 1:13
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

I guess everybody bar you in your family is a juju man

Actually I am not related to Dr David Owour, neither to Pastor William Kumuyi and many others who preach Christ.

To say angels should not be mentioned is absurd

That is an inference. I did not say that. How old are you?
I said I don't want to see angels or to talk to angels I cannot see. We are to talk to God in prayer.
Php 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.


If you see angels, it's fine but clearly the focus of the gospel is always Christ:
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

that's why you claim all prophets to be false

No, I don't. You will lie at any rate to prove your point?

2. Reveals the desires of your heart which is what God wants to give you.

hahaha, You need to read Jeremiah again and again!

Joagbaje:

What is wrong with seeing angels? . Any real prophets sees angels , some even see demons. A healing minister or prophet has angels assigned to him for that special ministry and they do see them. Moses did,paul did ,even Jesus did too.

Mark 1:13
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Nothing wrong with angels or seeing them. But we must pray to God, not talk to angels we cannot see. And those who preach must preach about Christ and the Holy Spirit not angels.
Is it really that hard to understand my message? I don't think so.

@WETU

Nothing wrong with angels or seeing them. But we must pray to God, not talk to angels we cannot see. And those who preach must preach about Christ and the Holy Spirit not angels.
Is it really that hard to understand my message?

I get your point that christ should be our focus and I agree with you . But theres nothing scripturally wrong when a minister relates his spiritual encounter or experience. Jesus did and paul did if not we will not be reading about it today.

Acts 27:23
23 For there stood by me this night the Angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,

If paul could relate his experience, we should not condemn any other minister for doing so that's my point.

It is ok for a minister to teach his congregation to expect to see angels?
It is ok for a minister to teach his congregation to talk to angels?