Merry Christmas and prosperous new year to ya all.

Sometime ago I opened a thread here to use it to appeal to my fellow webmasters to help me see how to contact one Cliff, Called Omavo alias, i_want_to. The thread is here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-814700.0.html

All efforts made to resolve that matter there did not yield any fruit. Now I want to throw the matter open for you guys to help me judge if I have been scammed or infact what to do.

The next post contains in detail the email communication between me and Cliff, owner of Omavo.com. Your contributions are welcome.

That silly bot banned my id: bros12345. I would have to attach all the emails

More emails

More emails

More emails. Please is this a scam or what?

I no know who to slap first. You offering to pay 50k as your best price for a web application of this nature or the said developer offering to accept that amount and show a working app in 5 days.

Put simply, you scammed yourselves. Only that one party made it with the loot.

This country is getting useless, online and offline.

It depends from the angle you are looking at it from. Cliff looked to me like a great cloner who could pick a thing and give u the changes u need in a few days. Did u see the nairalist clone that started all this? I didnt expect a start-from-the-foundation-work.

Secondly, If Cliff along the line felt the deal was below normal, it was just an email and we would either re-negotiate or terminate it. Nothing is fixed on stone.

So I disagree with you that I scammed myself. As the client here dont you think that I at least deserve updates on the progress of the work, which we could either add to or subtract from the terms. I once did a blog for a client and my initial chrge was 40k. But I ended up having the client pay 120k for the job cos I followed him up with updates and kept him informed on what actually needs to be done to get the best.

Sometimes potential clients may start out a project with poor pricing because they dont even know the depth of what they want but the programmer or designer can and will always along the line raise his bid after convincing the client of what needs to be done. I have done this severally and at the end all parties are satisfied and I am even recommended.

So I totally disagree with you DC. Its a matter of individual perception and attitude. Get it now!

Let me get you dhtml. Someone gave an asking price of 100k and I asked if there is room for negotiation and he says 60k and I say 50k. And he thinks well, he would start first and then expect that I would like the job enough to pay more. How do I take the blame here? I dont get you.

2weeks! Again, I didnt suggest the duration or the time for the demo. Besides, its now almost 2 months, and I dont get any updates or reason for date extensions.

Did you read the email communications well? My belief was that Cliff already had this kind of stuff and would just do a few changes for me. If you do read the messages you would see there was no impression it would be a start-from-the-foundation-work.

Now legally speaking, there was an offer and acceptance. So a contract was entered into. Now its breached, would you now say the offeree is to blame for making negotiation. That's laughable.

In a layman's terms, you tell me say this is how much you dey sell something, I say this is how much I will pay, you say ok no problem but you go add money because when i finish, you go like the job. I come give you money. Where I come get fault oga? Is it for saying this is how much I will pay?

Instead of looking for ways to make me believe I was greedy and fell victim, I think you should help me contact Cliff. I still believe we can work things out and I can put all this behind me. Like I said in the other thread, we are all humans and can all have challenges that may make us look bad.

Exactly

UPDATE:

Cliff sent me a mail late in the evening yesterday from Linkedin giving me an insight into his predicament and promised to get back to me as soon as he is able to sort some thins out. So I will give him time, say two weeks or so. Like I said, we are all humans and things could get out of hand. But we all needed to keep our clients informed of issues.

Meanwhile you guys can keep the comments coming. We all can learn and advise ourselves from the whole scenario

bros1234:

There is something called offer, bargain, negotiation and acceptance. When it is reached, a contract is entered into. No sentiments. Bro understand that in your business life.

There's also something called common sense which I think should override anything else.

Logic (Artificial Intelligence)
Offer: Honda Accord 2011 for 500,000 Naira
Bargain: 260,000 Naira
Negotiation: 250,000 Naira
Acceptance: 250,000 Naira


Common Sense (default wisdom bundled in every human.exe)
Offer: Honda Accord 2011 for 500,000 Naira
Bargain: N/A
Negotiation: N/A
Acceptance: N/A
Call EFCC and report a suspected stolen vehicle

Lawd!!!

Dual Core:

There's also something called common sense which I think should override anything else.

Logic (Artificial Intelligence)
Offer: Honda Accord 2011 for 500,000 Naira
Bargain: 260,000 Naira
Negotiation: 250,000 Naira
Acceptance: 250,000 Naira


Common Sense (default wisdom bundled in every human.exe)
Offer: Honda Accord 2011 for 500,000 Naira
Bargain: N/A
Negotiation: N/A
Acceptance: N/A
Call EFCC and report a suspected stolen vehicle

Made me laugh, though may not be the right example for this. Like I said, for $400 I could pick it up online and work around the additions I proposed. Was actually about to do that until came across the offer. So I was not expecting a 2011 HONDA. But a refurbished honda with new paint. Did you get that?

You dont say. . .

dnative:

bros your optimism whilst commendable would hardly get you anywhere. 'wait for another 1/2 weeks', 'give him some little more time, 'he seems to have a very good reason for the delay, '  won't lead anywhere. You've been pranked scammed, the earlier you recognize this and cut and run, the better. If an individual involved in web design business on that scale is not able to pull resources together to refund your N20k in a day or two when his reputation is at stake, that says it all. count your loss and move on or take action to get your money back (presuming he has a physical contact location). Forget all that "I'm in SA for an urgent biz" or "I'm currently sealing a snake oil deal in Shanghai" - no be today for Lagos.

btw, I like the layout and concept of your website and may be in touch for some possible small biz web dev

Oh well, you never can say. Since we have all the time, I think I should give my brother that. Thanks for your input

UPDATE:

This is too too bad. I have not heard from Cliff since then. Whay are we like this in Nigeria?

Hmmnnn, your money don go be that. Mayhaps he will refund you later on when he is around again. But like i said, that price is damn too small really.

^^^ I think we all should stop going on and on about the price being small. .Endpoint is they both had an agreement and he got SCAMMED!


bros12345

How do you intend going about this? You need his details?

This is very bad, a lesson for all to learn.
@,
damn the price, even if the project worth 20m or 10k, na money e be.
Omavo guy has fuc ked up.
@bros,
do what you wish, you don try.

Slyr0x:

^^^ I think we all should stop going on and on about the price being small. .Endpoint is they both had an agreement and he got SCAMMED!


bros12345

How do you intend going about this? You need his details?

Its a scam indeed and that dude needs to be reported to the police .

Thanks everyone, its time to move forward. I hope the lesson has been learned. To God be the rest

In my language, we say, "As I talk am to the chicken hawk, na so I go follow talk am to the chicken" - in other words, my advice goes both ways:

1) Just because someone says they can do something doesn't mean they actually can. Clients are to do their due diligence (interview, looking at past work, insisting on references, etc)

2) As a developer, if you know you can't do something, no matter how desperate you may be for the money, just be honest and say you can't do it. Generally speaking, a client will have more respect for you if you are straight up honest. Also, even if you know you can code a site in 5 hours, you can't predict the next 5 minutes. As a result, you are always to pad your time (industry average is 25%) to account for "acts of God" - illness, power failure, lack of money for fuel, etc. I personally always add 1 extra week to my project timelines. I figure it is best for me to finish "early" and be called a hero than to have go through the kind of email exchange I have just finished reading.

As slyrox said, it isn't about the money. It is about the agreement. Whereby the developer feels they were cheated, they are to file that under "lessons learned" and make sure it doesn't happen again in the future.

Alluta continua!

bros12345:

Thanks everyone, its time to move forward. I hope the lesson has been learned. To God be the rest

Like iMentioned earlier, You need his details? Company addy? Pictures? Stuffs about him?

I could get you all that F.O.C.

Slyr0x:

Like iMentioned earlier, You need his details? Company addy? Pictures? Stuffs about him?

I could get you all that F.O.C.

Thanks sly, that would be much appreciated. The email is tvchost at gmail dot com

Slyr0x:

Like iMentioned earlier, You need his details? Company addy? Pictures? Stuffs about him?

I could get you all that F.O.C.

Dude, there's this babe I see at the bar but whenever I come out of the pool to chyke her she vanishes. She's dark, tall, smiles a lot, long hair. Can you help me with her details?