HiHi vicjustice, omo_tier and everyone here in the house,
I have a serious issue. I was refused just recently for overstaying my student visa by almost a year. I didn't mention this in application becos it honestly crossed my mind. I was a child then (16-18) and was sponspored by my parents. However they had some financial issue and I couldn't keep up my tuition fees. My visa expired in 2003 and I return the next year in 2004. The EC said that I witheld important information and that the refusal was made under section 320(7a). According to the EC '' because this refusal was made under section 320(7a) of the immigration rule, any future applications may be refused under paragraph 320(7b) (subject to the requirements set out in paragraph 320(7c). A refusal under paragraph 320(7b) attracts an automatic refusal of up to 10years, ''. Now I'm afraid that I may have been slammed with the 10 year ban. However my question is since the refusal was made under 320(720a) am I banned for 10years? I left the UK voluntarily and paid my own travel expenses. Do I fall into the 1year ban category instead?. Vicjustice, dis guy, omo_tier pls I am desperate for ur advise. And is there something that I can do about it like using my immigration lawyer to pursue my case . I'm confused God bless u all.

jenny2007:

HiHi vicjustice, omo_tier and everyone here in the house,
I have a serious issue. I was refused just recently for overstaying my student visa by almost a year. I didn't mention this in application becos it honestly crossed my mind. I was a child then (16-18) and was sponspored by my parents. However they had some financial issue and I couldn't keep up my tuition fees. My visa expired in 2003 and I return the next year in 2004. The EC said that I witheld important information and that the refusal was made under section 320(7a). According to the EC '' because this refusal was made under section 320(7a) of the immigration rule, any future applications may be refused under paragraph 320(7b) (subject to the requirements set out in paragraph 320(7c). A refusal under paragraph 320(7b) attracts an automatic refusal of up to 10years, ''. Now I'm afraid that I may have been slammed with the 10 year ban. However my question is since the refusal was made under 320(720a) am I banned for 10years? I left the UK voluntarily and paid my own travel expenses. Do I fall into the 1year ban category instead?. Vicjustice, dis guy, omo_tier pls I am desperate for your advise. And is there something that I can do about it like using my immigration lawyer to pursue my case . I'm confused God bless u all.

   I should be honest with you. First of all, as you turned over 18 years (when you overstayed your visa), you were considered an adult responsible for your own actions, therefore, your overstaying in the UK alone attracts up to 10 years ban, but from what you narrated, you were not given the 10 years ban based on your overstaying in the UK, but rather for withholding the information, and that  places you in the category of those who try to obtain the UK visa by means of deception, and this act attracts the 10 years ban. Now, if the rules were to be implemented correctly, you would be receiving a 20 years ban, but for the fact that 10 years is the maximum sentence, you have been placed in this maximum ban.
   And unfortunately, you can do nothing about this, do not bother wasting your money on any solicitor as they can not do anything to overturn the ban; know that you have no lawful ground on which to challenge the decision since there are evidence that you are actually guilty of the Immigration rules violation

Vicjustice:

   I should be honest with you. First of all, as you turned over 18 years (when you overstayed your visa), you were considered an adult responsible for your own actions, therefore, your overstaying in the UK alone attracts up to 10 years ban, but from what you narrated, you were not given the 10 years ban based on you overstaying in the UK, but rather for withholding the information, and that  places you in the category of those who try to obtain the UK visa by means of deception, and this act attracts the 10 years ban. Now, if the rules were to be implemented correctly, you would be receiving a 20 years ban, but for the fact that 10 years is the maximum sentence, you have been placed in this maximum ban.
   And unfortunately, you can do nothing about this, do not bother wasting your money on any solicitor as they can not do anything to overturn the ban; know that you have no lawful ground on which to challenge the decision since there are evidence that you are actually guilty of the Immigration rules violation

@ First Part in bold, seemingly not correct. You do not get cummulative ban. You only serve your most recent. Check the UKBA internal guide for ECOs. Clearly stated there.

@second part in bold. Not sure if you are a QC or a KC, but I think we need to be careful here when trying to give advice. Same happen last year in this forum where a case posted by an OP and similar proclaimation was made and when I had a discussion with a colleague who is a QC, He showed me an Appeal court judgement which negated the views that was canvassed in the thread at a time.

@OP,
I would like to know which category of visas you applied for before I can give you advice. It is not all doom and gloom with issues of 'seemingly' deception. I have a case in mind similar to yours which I was privy to and it was upturn during a Judicial Review. But like I said, I need to know which category of visas you applied for, your immigration history in the UK and if your to get an honest advice, state clearly if you ever had any criminal records/debt in the UK while you were a student here.

Omo_Tier1:

@ First Part in bold, seemingly not correct. You do not get cummulative ban. You only serve your most recent. Check the UKBA internal guide for ECOs. Clearly stated there.

I quote myself in context:

. . .From what you narrated, you were not given the 10 years ban based on your overstaying in the UK, but rather for withholding the information, and that  places you in the category of those who try to obtain the UK visa by means of deception, and this act attracts the 10 years ban
Now, if the rules were to be implemented correctly, you would be receiving a 20 years ban, but for the fact that 10 years is the maximum sentence, you have been placed in this maximum ban

   
   So, what part of my English is it that you don't seem to understand? Tell me the line of my post that justify your claim that i suggested accumulative ban

Vicjustice:

I quote myself in context:   
   So, what part of my English is it that you don't seem to understand? Tell me the line of my post that justify your claim that i suggested accumulative ban

see the @bold below, emphasis in italics, wrong impression that one

Vicjustice:

", Now, if the rules were to be implemented correctly, you would be receiving a 20 years ban, but for the fact that 10 years is the maximum sentence, you have been placed in this maximum ban, "

You still don't understand my English: Now, lets assume that someone says; "If Europe were to implement laws correctly, Murderers should face capital punishment", does that mean there exist capital punishment in Europe?

Omo_Tier1:

@second part in bold. Not sure if you are a QC or a KC, but I think we need to be careful here when trying to give advice. Same happen last year in this forum where a case posted by an OP and similar proclaimation was made and when I had a discussion with a colleague who is a QC, He showed me an Appeal court judgement which negated the views that was canvassed in  the thread at a time.

  You will only waste the OP time and money, go ahead and "advise" the OP to employ the best solicitors in Nigeria, but i'll be interested to know the legal ground on which you are making her case.

Omo_Tier1:

@OP,
I would like to know which category of visas you applied for before I can give you advice. It is not all doom and gloom with issues of 'seemingly' deception. I have a case in mind similar to yours which I was privy to and it was upturn during a Judicial Review. But like I said, I need to know which category of visas you applied for, your immigration history in the UK and if your to get an honest advice, state clearly if you ever had any criminal records/debt in the UK while you were a student here

  The OP opening post explains all, your questions were already answered in it, you may now commence the work based on the info provided

Vicjustice:

   You still don't understand my English: Now, lets assume that someone says; "If Europe were to implement laws correctly, Murderers should face capital punishment", does that mean there exist capital punishment in Europe?
  You will only waste the OP time and money, go ahead and "advise" the OP to employ the best solicitors in Nigeria, but i'll be interested to know the legal ground on which you are making her case.
  The OP opening post explains already answers all these, you can now commence the work based on the info provided

I do not want to go down this route. I know you are no Immgration Solicitor with UK Immigration experience, so categorically giving advice against contacting Immigration Solicitors is completely out of place. And by the way, I wasn't referring to Nigerian Immigration Solicitors as we do not have QC or KC in Nigeria.

I am sorry, just admit it. Knowingly the Immigration Rules/Legislation or haven gone through the process yourself, you should know that there is no way your previous and present offence would in anyway be added up. UKBA has repeatedly made it clear that it is the last of the strings of offences that the counting date of the ban would begin. Hence in Her case, it was obvious that if she were to serve the ban, it would begin from Her most recent.

If the HO/UKBA who are custodians of the UK Immigration rules states explicitly how the ban is to be implemented where applicable why suggest something different?

I know we all want to get cheats punished but somehow, when someone ask for honest opinion, give your opinion inline with the rules. The courts especially the Appeals court have upturned or reduce bans on deception by withholding information on the application and HO have struggled to define a clear line when an applicant can be banned using just the information as contained in the application form only.

Let me also give you an example of an application I helped process recently. The applicant forgot to include information that she was recently refused but included information of her past refusals. It wasn't delibrate, as she did not understand that ALL refusals, Bans, convictions etc within previous ten years prior to application MUST be disclosed on her application form. But she was given the visas and infact it was processed undr 7days in October 2011.

The reason I asked her to provide the information I request is simple. There is a case witness from an Appeal courts decision which I would have referred her to that would help her make up her mind whether or not the she would engage an immigration solicitors.

Omo_Tier1:

I am sorry, just admit it. Knowingly the Immigration Rules/Legislation or haven gone through the process yourself, you should know that there is no way your previous and present offence would in anyway be added up. UKBA has repeatedly made it clear that it is the last of the strings of offences that the counting date of the ban would begin. Hence in Her case, it was obvious that if she were to serve the ban, it would begin from Her most recent.

   I really do not need to read your long and vain epistle, i just want to insist that you have problem understanding my English, or perhaps, due to grievances. Read this quoted line carefully and get the English right.

Vicjustice:

From what you narrated, you were not given the 10 years ban based on your overstaying in the UK, but rather for withholding the information, and that  places you in the category of those who try to obtain the UK visa by means of deception, and this act attracts the 10 years ban

   If you still can't understand that i never suggested that bans could be added up, that's up to you

Vicjustice:

   I really do not need to read your long and vain epistle, i just want to insist that you have problem understanding my English, or perhaps, due to grievances. Read this quoted line carefully and get the English right.
   If you still can't understand that i never suggested that bans could be added up, that's up to you

Not sure what you ment by grievances. I really do not take this serious so I do not undrestand what you mean by grievances. I take it that helping people get the right information that would ease their visas processing is the right thing, hence can't comprehend where the grievance would be coming from.

If you claim I misunderstood your english, then fair enough and I will leave it at that. You conveyed the right information in your summary paragraph. I only flagged up that sentence in between 'cos (I do not know if you have done it) when you google UK immigration up, Nairaland Travel Forum flags up alongside other top UK Immigration forum like UK resident, UKimmigration and often, post by individual are flagged up by the search engine using individual words like 'ban', etc. But it's okay, guess its Nairaland way.

Hello guys,
Thanks for your response. @vicjustice, pls there is no need to be rude here at all. We are all addults and should behave likewise by respecting each other's opinion -whether you agree with them or not. You really don't have to call anyone names pls, that is just rude!
@omo_tier, I applied for a short -term (6mnth) visit visa. My previous visa was a 2years student visa (2001-03). I do not have any conviction or debts in the UK though I know I have had a caution by the metro poli. over a fight at school with a white girl during my A'levels. I was 17 at the time. I think the embassy only discovered that I overstayed through the caution because they mentioned it. According to them, 'I was cautioned after my visa had expired which shows I was in uk up to six months after my visa expired'.

jenny2007:

Hello guys,
Thanks for your response. @vicjustice, pls there is no need to be rude here at all. We are all addults and should behave likewise by respecting each other's opinion -whether you agree with them or not. You really don't have to call anyone names pls, that is just rude!
@omo_tier, I applied for a short -term (6mnth) visit visa. My previous visa was a 2years student visa (2001-03). I do not have any conviction or debts in the UK though I know I have had a caution by the metro poli. over a fight at school with a white girl during my A'levels. I was 17 at the time. I think the embassy only discovered that I overstayed through the caution because they mentioned it. According to them, 'I was cautioned after my visa had expired which shows I was in uk up to six months after my visa expired'.

Sebi dem say person weh no get mama no dey get wound for him back.  ?
your visa expire and u dey go fight like say God dey your back abi?
UK no dey stamp out nd I no knw y guys no dey use der head to utilize dat chance to lay low.
so vicjustice and CO make una go help d guy beg for home office and BHC for naija ooooo

jenny2007:

Hello guys,
Thanks for your response. @vicjustice, pls there is no need to be rude here at all. We are all addults and should behave likewise by respecting each other's opinion -whether you agree with them or not. You really don't have to call anyone names pls, that is just rude!
@omo_tier, I applied for a short -term (6mnth) visit visa. My previous visa was a 2years student visa (2001-03). I do not have any conviction or debts in the UK though I know I have had a caution by the metro poli. over a fight at school with a white girl during my A'levels. I was 17 at the time. I think the embassy only discovered that I overstayed through the caution because they mentioned it. According to them, 'I was cautioned after my visa had expired which shows I was in uk up to six months after my visa expired'.

   May i ask you how you define "RUDE"? And provide the "NAMES" that i called anyone.
   Please, respond to these two queries if you really know what you've just written.

llbhuds:

Sebi dem say person weh no get mama no dey get wound for him back.  ?
your visa expire and u dey go fight like say God dey your back abi?
UK no dey stamp out nd I no knw y guys no dey use der head to utilize dat chance to lay low.
so vicjustice and CO make una go help d guy beg for home office and BHC for naija ooooo

Look sometimes, humans make mistake, and I believe you have in your life, so lets leave out that and give her the advice she came her for.

jenny2007:

Hello guys,
Thanks for your response. @vicjustice, pls there is no need to be rude here at all. We are all addults and should behave likewise by respecting each other's opinion -whether you agree with them or not. You really don't have to call anyone names pls, that is just rude!
@omo_tier, I applied for a short -term (6mnth) visit visa. My previous visa was a 2years student visa (2001-03). I do not have any conviction or debts in the UK though I know I have had a caution by the metro poli. over a fight at school with a white girl during my A'levels. I was 17 at the time. I think the embassy only discovered that I overstayed through the caution because they mentioned it. According to them, 'I was cautioned after my visa had expired which shows I was in uk up to six months after my visa expired'.

Hi ya Jenny,
Haven read your lastest post and I have made a few enquiries, it will not be an easy task to get your ban lifted through JR 'cos of your caution. The HO will use that against your character before the judge.

But do not let this discourage you from contacting an Imigration Solicitors in the UK. There some that offer advice onine.

Omo_Tier1:

Look sometimes, humans make mistake, and I believe you have in your life, so lets leave out that and give her the advice she came her for.

intentional mistakes abi?
over stayin ur visa is not a mistake biko, ask him if he traveled to the uk earlier b4 the validity of his visa began.
if he does, then i can believe that this is a mistake.

llbhuds:

intentional mistakes abi?
over stayin your visa is not a mistake biko,   ask him if he traveled to the uk earlier b4 the validity of his visa began.
if he does, then i can believe that this is a mistake.

I think people like you are reasons some people find it difficult when they come here and they can't pour out their hearts to get REAL help. You seems not to understand that Immigration and Travels are a sensitive issue, and if you are going to assist people, I do not think giving rash response will do just that.

No boDy is condoning overstaying, but I think there are better ways you can assist someone to understand their situation that your rash comments below. Yes, S/He should not have overstayed, Yes S/He should not have engaged in conducts that warrant Police caution but that does not give you the leverage to respond to people query with rash or seemingly rude response.

Omo_Tier1:

I think people like you are reasons some people find it difficult when they come here and they can't pour out their hearts to get REAL help. You seems not to understand that Immigration and Travels are a sensitive issue, and if you are going to assist people, I do not think giving rash response will do just that.

No boy is condoning overstaying, but I think there are better ways you can assist someone to understand their situation that your rash comments below. Yes, S/He should not have overstayed, Yes S/He should not have engaged in conducts that warrant Police caution but that does not give you the leverage to respond to people query with rash or seemingly rude response.

if u know dis, then tell him to go and try another country. try to call a spade a spade and stop dribbling biko

Rudeness, hnmmmm strong word

llbhuds:

if u know dis,  then tell him to go and try another country. try to call a spade a spade and stop dribbling biko

Rudeness,  hnmmmm strong word

You know,  I have met people like you in real life,  you slag others but you equally is as filthy as those you'r slagging! With the few post I have had with you,  you come across as someone who is innately rude,  and I guess someone like me would really want to ask you any questions bothering on immigration.

Least I remind you, you are not a qualified and experienced UK Immigration Solicitors, so why not present your response that leaves the OP with the final decision? Like I said in one of my post in here, there was poster that came in here to post seeking advice and same rash response was given to that person. The person went ahead to contact a UK immigration Solicitors and today that person is in the UK after an appeal. So let us not act as if we are saints and that we know it all!

I have read through the posts and agree with omo tier. Everyone makes mistakes, she did and realises it and wants to see how to rectify it.

@poster listen to me. A lot of people claim to be immigration expert by quoting laws and colleagues.

I see you were refused not because you overstayed but because you honesty omitted vital information on your application. If what you're saying is recent, you can appeal this decision and win.

Before you say "how", there's a precedent regarding this case. Same thing happened to a guy in a case called O.O v Secretary of state for the home department. Full citation of the case would help you to win the case.

I could be of help if you want to appeal

paris10:

@poster listen to me. A lot of people claim to be immigration expert by quoting laws and colleagues.

I see you were refused not because you overstayed but because you honesty omitted vital information on your application. If what you're saying is recent, you can appeal this decision and win.

Before you say "how", there's a precedent regarding this case. Same thing happened to a guy in a case called O.O v Secretary of state for the home department. Full citation of the case would help you to win the case.

I could be of help if you want to appeal

Can you explain that to her here?

paris10:

@poster listen to me. A lot of people claim to be immigration expert by quoting laws and colleagues.

I see you were refused not because you overstayed but because you honesty omitted vital information on your application. If what you're saying is recent, you can appeal this decision and win.

Before you say "how", there's a precedent regarding this case. Same thing happened to a guy in a case called O.O v Secretary of state for the home department. Full citation of the case would help you to win the case.

I could be of help if you want to appeal

Can you help hre with the Full judgement so she can read for herself and use that as her 'case witness'? My other concern is Her caution because in JR proceedings even though it is suppose to be on the legality or otherwise of the HO decisions, Treasure Solicitors often engage in character assassinations in their reply bundle before a judge just to paint the individual negative.

Omo_Tier1:

Can you help hre with the Full judgement so she can read for herself and use that as her 'case witness'? My other concern is Her caution because in JR proceedings even though it is suppose to be on the legality or otherwise of the HO decisions, Treasure Solicitors often engage in character assassinations in their reply bundle before a judge just to paint the individual negative.

Yes I will. Let me get the full judgement and some relevant cases to help. And about the character "assassination" (I know that can be used as an aggravating factor) but note that she was just 17 (mitigating circumstance) or there about as at the time of the caution. That would be overlooked if it was her first time.

Furthermore, she wasn't refused based on that but on omitting vital information.

justwise:

Can you explain that to her here?

To @justwise, I see you're always on the prosecution side and got no defence skills at all. If you was a prosecutor, you would lose all of your cases to me.

I'll help people without your often biased contributions.

paris10:

To @justwise, I see you're always on the prosecution side and got no defence skills at all. If you was a prosecutor, you would lose all of your cases to me.

I'll help people without your often biased contributions.

paris10:

To @justwise, I see you're always on the prosecution side and got no defence skills at all. If you was a prosecutor, you would lose all of your cases to me.

I'll help people without your often biased contributions.

Talk is cheap. I'm not a stranger to your hot-air

Omo_Tier1:

You know,  I have met people like you in real life,  you slag others but you equally is as filthy as those you'r slagging! With the few post I have had with you,  you come across as someone who is innately rude,  and I guess someone like me would really want to ask you any questions bothering on immigration.

Least I remind you, you are not a qualified and experienced UK Immigration Solicitors, so why not present your response that leaves the OP with the final decision? Like I said in one of my post in here, there was poster that came in here to post seeking advice and same rash response was given to that person. The person went ahead to contact a UK immigration Solicitors and today that person is in the UK after an appeal. So let us not act as if we are saints and that we know it all!

lol
Eiyah, Are u crying?
mr sabi all
since u'v met peeps like me in life so why are u still alive?

Nigeriansssssss, someone asked for help and advice, you guys turned it into personal problem resolution and opportunity to form "levels"! i was trying to learn from the advice but all i can see is just self aggrandizement!!!!

Xavier1976:

Nigeriansssssss, someone asked for help and advice, you guys turned it into personal problem resolution and opportunity to form "levels"! i was trying to learn from the advice but all i can see is just self aggrandizement!!!!

Welcome to NL, often shameful when this happen. Nigerians do not have teachable spirit! When attempt to quiet highlight seemingly unhelpful post, they turn it to personal issues.

Special Thanks and God Bless to Omo_Tier1 & paris10

Nobody Holy pass. A problem needs a solution, and you get people criticizing you on top. Is that really needed?,

A damn solution, solution, solution, Do you know what 10years is, if she's studied there and lived a good part of her life there?, It's a very long time, a very very long time to wait.

Once more, I appreciate the tender perspective, maturity Omo_Tier1 always brings to issues.

damola1:

Special Thanks and God Bless to Omo_Tier1 & paris10

Nobody Holy pass. A problem needs a solution, and you get people criticizing you on top. Is that really needed?, 

A damn solution, solution, solution,  Do you know what 10years is, if she's studied there and lived a good part of her life there?,  It's a very long time,  a very very long time to wait.

Once more, I appreciate the tender perspective, maturity Omo_Tier1 always brings to issues.

Who is criticizing Omo_Tier1 & paris10?

justwise:

Who is Omo_Tier1 & paris10?

I am omo_Tier1, any issues?