Is there really a place called Purgatory?

Is this place just an invention and tradition of the Roman Catholic Church?

What if there is no such place as Purgatory?

Today I would like to talk about the Roman Catholic teaching of Purgatory. First of all I would like to quote from two of their catechisms, regarding this topic:In The New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism there is a little section entitled PURGATORY IS GOD’S HOSPITALand it declares that ‘Purgatory is God’s Hospital for souls, where those who do not love God enough to enter heaven are cured by fire…Then they must go to purgatory, where they will have to suffer much more intensely than they would have if they had accepted the sufferings on earth…In purgatory, God’s cleansing fires burn away the souls selfishness till its love becomes perfect and it is ready to fly to heaven. Its suffering only purify love, they don’t increase it. [The New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism, Catholic Book Publishing Co., NY 1969, Imprimatur: Francis Cardinal Spellman]The Catechism Of The Catholic Church of 1994 confirms the above in a section entitled THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030: all who die in God’s grace, and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven

1031: The church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of scriptures, speaks of a cleansing fire…. [The Catechism Of The Catholic Church, Doubleday Publishers NYC, Paperback Edition, 1995, page 191, Imprimi Potest: Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger]

I wanted to quote from those two catechisms to present the Roman Catholic teaching regarding this place called Purgatory, so that you could read it for yourself. I am a former Roman Catholic who came to know Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour in 1989, and you can  read my testimony or listen to my:testimony on Audio .There has never been a place called Purgatory and there never will be a place called Purgatory. It does not exist. If you search the scriptures you will not find this place in there at all. My purpose in writing this article is to dispel this false teaching which provides a false hope to the millions upon millions of precious souls within the Roman Catholic system.Jesus Christ spoke about salvation and damnation, light and darkness, life and death, and heaven and hell but He never offered even a hint about a place called purgatory.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18)

Here Jesus speaks about the love of God toward the people of the world, and He declares that God sent His Son into the world to save the world. Jesus also made it very clear that the person who did not believe in the Son (Himself) was condemned already. There was not even a hint about a purifying fire for either the believer or unbeliever from the mouth of Jesus Christ. Jesus made it clear that faith in Him was the determining factor of whether a person was saved or condemned.Here is another passage from the Bible where Jesus speaks about salvation and damnation after He rose from the dead:

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15-16)

Once again the focus is on the faith of the individual. The believer will be saved and the unbeliever will be damned.Listen to the words of a criminal who repented during the final moments of his life, as he spoke with Jesus from a cross:

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:39-43)

Jesus promised this criminal that he would be with Him in Paradise on that very day! I am sure that this criminal had a love that was less than perfect toward God, but Jesus promised that man Paradise. Jesus never mentioned a place called Purgatory or a suffering that needed to take place after he died because that place does not exist. Salvation has always been based upon the faith of the individual in the living God. That criminal could do absolutely nothing to save himself at that point in his life. He could not do any good works. He could not wiggle down off that cross to be baptized either. The only thing that he could do was the thing that he did and that was to put his faith in Jesus Christ before he died. The criminal made a genuine turn in his heart toward the Lord and he genuinely repented of his own sin. The criminal acknowledged that he deserved to be there ‘for we receive the due reward of our deeds…’ and the proof that it was genuine was the fact that the Lord promised that man that he would go to paradise with Him on that very day.

The Catholic Mass And Purgatory

Many people do not realize that the Roman Catholic Mass is considered a ‘propitiatory sacrifice’ that is offered to God for both the living and the dead, which would include those souls in Purgatory. In fact the Roman Catholic Council of Trent has pronounced many anathemas (curses) against those people who would not agree with their teachings on those subjects. Those anathemas are still in effect today and do not let anybody tell you otherwise.

People can have a Roman Catholic Mass said by a priest for a deceased friend or relative. A Catholic can go their local church and make a request for a Mass to be said on behalf of their loved one who may be in Purgatory. In the 1960′s I used to go to the local rectory to make a donation for a Mass card when somebody we knew had died. There were two types of Mass cards. One was a simple looking card with a suggested donation of one dollar and the other one was a much thicker one with a nice case for a suggested donation of five dollars. I cannot imagine what the Mass card donation might be today.

Here are two of those anathemas (curses):

Canons on The Sacrifice Of The Mass

Canon 1: [/b]If anyone says that in the mass a true and real sacrifice is not offered to God, or that to be offered is nothing else than that Christ is given to us to eat, let him be anathema.

[b]Canon 3: If anyone says that the sacrifice of the mass is one only of praise and thanksgiving; or that it is a mere commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross but not a propitiatory one; or that it profits him only who receives, and ought not to be offered for the living and the dead, for sins, punishments, satisfactions, and other necessities, let him be anathema.

The one thing that I want you to see here is that the teaching of Purgatory cheapens the Gospel of Jesus Christ. How many masses must be said by family members before a soul is set free from Purgatory? How many hundreds of years must a soul remain in Purgatory? These are answers that you will never know and people will still continue to have masses said for there loved ones because of that.

Trust me! If the blood of the sinless, perfect Son of God, Jesus Christ cannot perfectly atone for your sins, then there is nothing in this universe that can do it.

I do not believe that the mass is a propitiatory sacrifice and I do not believe that there is any benefit at all in the Roman Catholic mass, so according to their teaching I am anathematized. I do believe what the scriptures tell me such as the following:

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Romans 5:8-9)

Many people who do not come from a Roman Catholic background have no idea about these things. They have never been inside the funeral parlor to listen to the prayers for the people who have already died, who are offered hope for escape from this land of make believe. There are millions of Roman Catholic people who think that they have a second chance after death, after they go to Purgatory when somebody else will have a Mass said for them to shorten their time there. I know because I was one of them.

Mary Worship And Purgatory

There are also millions of Catholics who believe that their stay in Purgatory will be shortened because they had a devotion to Mary the Blessed Mother and because they wore the brown scapular around their neck. The brown scapular is made up of two pieces of cloth, usually wrapped in a plastic to protect it, and held together with string. It forms a circle which is then draped over the wearers head.

Pope John XXII declared that he had a vision of the Virgin Mary in which she said the following concening those who wore the brown scapular:

” I the Mother of grace, shall descend on the Saturday after their death and whomsoever I shall find in Purgatory, I shall free, so that I may lead them to the holy mountain of life everlasting”

There were many people who were martyred during the middle ages because they refused to believe teachings such as Purgatory.

Martin Luther was absolutely outraged when a man named John Tetzel went preaching in the towns and villages throughout Germany raising money for the building of St Peter’s Basilica in Rome. John Tetzel was peddling indulgences with the approval of Pope Leo X and providing them with a false hope beyond the grave. There was a money chest which was carried during these fund raisers and Tetzel urged the people to contribute by saying:

“As soon as the coin in the coffer rings , the soul from Purgatory springs”

This is spiritual fraud at its worst. I wonder how many sincere people were swayed by that man Tetzel to give up their money, hoping that one of their loved ones would escape the torment of this place that has never existed. It is absolutely mind boggling that the teaching of Purgatory is still around in modern times.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek (Gentile). (Romans 1:16)

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[size=13pt]<sup>frosbel u can see why Christianity sucks !? The Catholic Church is one big part of this the same Christianity but see the kind of confusion they're doing or generating . I have read the Bible and it never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin -- except when one accept JESUS as personal lord and savior .( AND that's another lie from the pit of heaven ! ) i have seen so many that have accept JESUS but there sinful nature is still there and even increasing to the highest level . . . If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them.

frosbel i want to tell u this day that purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.

I wonder how far Christians would keep deceiving themselves ---there's nothing hiding under the open SUN!</sup> [/size]

@Frosbel: [Quote]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18)[/Quote]Is the speaker Jesus using third person identification for himself or is it somebody else talking, heaping accolade on Jesus, since this man Jesus was already lifted and he is not coming back?




[Quote]Here Jesus speaks about the love of God toward the people of the world, and He declares that God sent His Son into the world to save the world. Jesus also made it very clear that the person who did not believe in the Son (Himself) was condemned already. There was not even a hint about a purifying fire for either the believer or unbeliever from the mouth of Jesus Christ. Jesus made it clear that faith in Him was the determining factor of whether a person was saved or condemned.Here is another passage from the Bible where Jesus speaks about salvation and damnation after He rose from the dead:

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15-16)[/Quote]Jesus was not the speaker of the John verses, above. But somebody else elevating Jesus from man messenger servant sent to son of God as if God needs a son so that He practices injustice when He can simply forgive all since I did not eat any fruit from any tree, just the same way that i am not the husband of Eve or the brother and killer of Abel. Adam was not the killer or brother of Abel, too. Why do I share only in the fault of Adam that he was already forgiven then, being made according to the Bible a worker of the land, which I am also now yet I was not forgiven in the way Adam was? But even the killing of Jesus [as the christians do believe] did not happen immediately soon after the situation with Adam and Eve [A time it would have been most appropriate if there is a need for such gore]. People were forgiven so much so that the Bible God released His sons to come to earth and sleep with daughters of man so that they produced literally [according to the Bible] what i will tern grand children of the Bible God. Is this not enough to stop the transference of the sin of Adam, if there ever was, since now we have part God [grandchildren with at least 25% God blood/relationship [lol] running in their veins]? Why not Jesus taking the punishment for the people of Noah or people of Lot later or even the Pharaoh of Moses, while we see nothing special or better in the spirituality of his people, the Jews, they were sacked and defeated after his being killed for all man. Did the wars among men stopped or more frequent? How about spirituality; we have more non christians [a religion Jesus had nothing to do with] than the christians on earth and in Palestine, yet there is no uniformity in the people who falsely claim they follow Jesus, so much so in their lies they were followers by names they invented only and unfortunately elevated him to the position of God, even after they read him praying, supplicating, crying, weeping, begging and indeed petitioning the God Who sent him.




[Quote]Once again the focus is on the faith of the individual. The believer will be saved and the unbeliever will be damned.Listen to the words of a criminal who repented during the final moments of his life, as he spoke with Jesus from a cross:

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (Luke 23:39-43)

Jesus promised this criminal that he would be with Him in Paradise on that very day! I am sure that this criminal had a love that was less than perfect toward God, but Jesus promised that man Paradise. Jesus never mentioned a place called Purgatory or a suffering that needed to take place after he died because that place does not exist. Salvation has always been based upon the faith of the individual in the living God. That criminal could do absolutely nothing to save himself at that point in his life. He could not do any good works. He could not wiggle down off that cross to be baptized either. The only thing that he could do was the thing that he did and that was to put his faith in Jesus Christ before he died. The criminal made a genuine turn in his heart toward the Lord and he genuinely repented of his own sin. The criminal acknowledged that he deserved to be there ‘for we receive the due reward of our deeds…’ and the proof that it was genuine was the fact that the Lord promised that man that he would go to paradise with Him on that very day.[/Quote]As much smart to pretend to have, have you noticed that the thief that you said Jesus promised that will be with him in paradise didn't have any baptism or anything that you christians say are essential to enter heaven? Note that Jesus said that this thief will be in paradise with him on that day, not being him his father's house or lowest in the kingdom of heaven, but PARADISE. You will notice that Jesus said that those who abolish and or make others to abolish the prophets and their laws will be in the lowest, but never in paradise. Mr. frosbel, which way is yours, like the thief who believed in Jesus as an innocent man, no way he could have called him "Lord", maybe like the british house of lords, if you insist [and i doubt if you will agree with me, because of your faith], but a man prophet to his people.

Is the abode of God paradise considering that he created paradise as a reward for man if he believes and obey and worship correctly and does good and righteous deed for His sake?

Ogaga4Luv:

[size=13pt]<sup>frosbel u can see why Christianity sucks !? The Catholic Church is one big part of this the same Christianity but see the kind of confusion they're doing or generating . I have read the Bible and it never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin -- except when one accept JESUS as personal lord and savior .( AND that's another lie from the pit of heaven ! ) i have seen so many that have accept JESUS but there sinful nature is still there and even increasing to the highest level . . . If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them.

frosbel i want to tell u this day that purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.

I wonder how far Christians would keep deceiving themselves ---there's nothing hiding under the open SUN!</sup> [/size]

We do not need an infidel to validate our religion.

You are still in our prayers !!!

Sweetnecta:

@Frosbel: Is the speaker Jesus using third person identification for himself or is it somebody else talking, heaping accolade on Jesus, since this man Jesus was already lifted and he is not coming back?



Jesus was not the speaker of the John verses, above. But somebody else elevating Jesus from man messenger servant sent to son of God as if God needs a son so that He practices injustice when He can simply forgive all since I did not eat any fruit from any tree, just the same way that i am not the husband of Eve or the brother and killer of Abel. Adam was not the killer or brother of Abel, too. Why do I share only in the fault of Adam that he was already forgiven then, being made according to the Bible a worker of the land, which I am also now yet I was not forgiven in the way Adam was? But even the killing of Jesus [as the christians do believe] did not happen immediately soon after the situation with Adam and Eve [A time it would have been most appropriate if there is a need for such gore]. People were forgiven so much so that the Bible God released His sons to come to earth and sleep with daughters of man so that they produced literally [according to the Bible] what i will tern grand children of the Bible God. Is this not enough to stop the transference of the sin of Adam, if there ever was, since now we have part God [grandchildren with at least 25% God blood/relationship [lol] running in their veins]? Why not Jesus taking the punishment for the people of Noah or people of Lot later or even the Pharaoh of Moses, while we see nothing special or better in the spirituality of his people, the Jews, they were sacked and defeated after his being killed for all man. Did the wars among men stopped or more frequent? How about spirituality; we have more non christians [a religion Jesus had nothing to do with] than the christians on earth and in Palestine, yet there is no uniformity in the people who falsely claim they follow Jesus, so much so in their lies they were followers by names they invented only and unfortunately elevated him to the position of God, even after they read him praying, supplicating, crying, weeping, begging and indeed petitioning the God Who sent him.



As much smart to pretend to have, have you noticed that the thief that you said Jesus promised that will be with him in paradise didn't have any baptism or anything that you christians say are essential to enter heaven? Note that Jesus said that this thief will be in paradise with him on that day, not being him his father's house or lowest in the kingdom of heaven, but PARADISE. You will notice that Jesus said that those who abolish and or make others to abolish the prophets and their laws will be in the lowest, but never in paradise. Mr. frosbel, which way is yours, like the thief who believed in Jesus as an innocent man, no way he could have called him "Lord", maybe like the british house of lords, if you insist [and i doubt if you will agree with me, because of your faith], but a man prophet to his people.

Is the abode of God paradise considering that he created paradise as a reward for man if he believes and obey and worship correctly and does good and righteous deed for His sake?

Sweetnecta Bro, I will reply to your points after work today.

My holidays are over ,

there is a place called purgatory. you are in it right now. its called 'earth' job 9 vs 24.

^^^^

Sounds more plausible and a better fit at a conceptual level.

However not true in the case of a post-death scenario.

[size=13pt]<sup>Well , i only choose to remain infidel to the so many lies of the Christians and some other religions that hates the truth! ^^   .

ha ha ha now u sound like a prayer warrior frosbel , sorry  i don't even need u to put me in your prayers because it won't work on me     .</sup>[/size]

frosbel:

We do not need an infidel to validate our religion.  

You are still in our prayers !!!

Ogaga4Luv:

[size=13pt]<sup>Well , i only choose to remain infidel to the so many lies of the Christians and some other religions that hates the truth! ^^   .

ha ha ha now u sound like a prayer warrior frosbel , sorry  i don't even need u to put me in your prayers because it won't work on me     .</sup>[/size]

The other school of thought is that the devil is working on you overtime and making a good job of it.

May God open your eyes.

post death, the spirit returns to the lord who provides it. ecclesiastes 12 vs 7

Whether u like it or not there is salvation beyond the grave.It was well aluded to in the underlisted scriptures.1 pet 3:19,1 pet 4:6,1 cor 15:29

chukwudi44:

Whether u like it or not there is salvation beyond the grave.It was well aluded to in the underlisted scriptures.1 pet 3:19,1 pet 4:6,1 cor 15:29

of course there is salvation beyond the grave

[size=13pt]^{The Devil inside me is really doing a very good job in my life -- i believe the one inside u is also doing one great thing too in your life ? well , let's remove JOKE  that your GOD don't have access into my great life . he's absolutely nothing where i belongs . he should PROVE himself real or else me and my fellows from around the World would keep terrorizing him and his blind folded followers . . . .}   [/size]

frosbel:

The other school of thought is that the devil is working on you overtime and making a good job of it.

May God open your eyes.

I like the clarity of this teaching Frosbel. Some one can only pretend to not get it right.

To others i say this "When you hear the word of God do not harden your heart"

East:

I like the clarity of this teaching Frosbel. Some one can only pretend to not get it right.

To others i say this "When you hear the word of God do not harden your heart"

Thanks.

I copy most of these articles from the blog sites of beloved brethren with like minds.

There is no Purgatory anywhere
The Catholics too are a false Christian group that have too many distorted versions of the true doctrines of the Bible. There are at least 30 of them but i will state three of the false doctrines here

1)The Catholics believe that there is a place called Purgatory after death,which exists for the expiation of the venial sins of believers. That the souls detained in Purgatory can be helped by the suffrages of the Catholic faithful (Creed of Pope Pius IV.Art 6)
That the souls that will go to Purgatory are those who ''depart with venial sins or that have not fully paid the debt of temporal punishment...''(The Cathechism 107)
The Bible refuttal is in 1 John 1:7,John1:29,Acts 4:12 which affirms very clearly that there is only one mode of expiation which is by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

2)The Catholics believe that some sins do not deserve the wrath of God.They claim that such sins are venial sins and do not incur spiritual death to the soul.their examples of ''venial sins'' include lying and stealing small things.(Dens Theologia,tom 1&De Peccatis No.154)
The Bible states that every sin deserves the wrath of God(Romans 6:23)(Gal 3:10)(Ezekiel 18:20)
Revelation 21:8 states that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire

3)The Catholics believe that the Church of Rome is infallible,that ''the Pope cannot err and is infallible in defining matters of faith and morals...''.The dogma of Papal infallibility was defined at the Vatican Council which states that anyone contradicting this is a heretic.(Pope Pius X Compedium)(Cathechism of the Council of Trent,Ques Xvii,Part 1,p.100.

The Bible states that no person or church on earth is infallible.(Ezekiel 7:26)(Isaiah 56:10)(Acts 20:29-30)(1Tim4:12)(Matthew 15:14)(2 Thess 2:3-4)

Submission: The Catholics are a false christian sect which doctrines are at variance with the doctrines of the true christian faith.If any Catholic can dispute the facts above with solidly grounded and undeniable facts devoid of sentiments,you are welcome.